Alitalia MilleMiglia - Alitalia new business class on medium haul

I have just received a newsletter from Alitalia saying that they are now introducing a new business class (Ottima) service on medium haul international flights. Amongst the main features: tableware by Culti, new menus and a selection of Italian wines. I have recently booked a FCO-WAW for December and it goes without saying that I really hope to see the above improvements, mainly considering that [apparently] this route is often operated by the new A320s. What do you reckon, guys? Do you think that, in this day and age where people are constantly looking to save money, such enhancement really make sense?

Well up to today the difference between C and Y was quite low, and many of the ex-LIN flights for example were leaving with an empty business class due to the fares being high. Perhaps this improvement will create some market, although really they have to bring the prices down a little as well - for now they are often above 1k € on short haul.

although really they have to bring the prices down a little as well - for now they are often above 1k € on short haul.

Totally agree. The only [European] routes where C fares are quite reasonable are mainly LHR-LIN/FCO, this as far as I know (by experience).

Totally agree. The only [European] routes where C fares are quite reasonable are mainly LHR-LIN/FCO, this as far as I know (by experience).

And the reason for that is the competition (BA and LHI on MXP - LHR having low J fares so AZ has to be competitive...)

Recently as low as 300€ rtn in J which really is good value^

FCO-WAW

Are you sure WAW is a medium-haul destination? I would rather think they meant BEY, TLV, DAM (if still served), CAI, MOW etc.

Are you sure WAW is a medium-haul destination? I would rather think they meant BEY, TLV, DAM (if still served), CAI, MOW etc.

You may be right...

The English version of the AZ website defines medium-haul as flights with a sector length > 3hrs 10 mins when describing availability of inflight entertainment in business:
In addition, starting July 1, a selection of Italian and international movies from the latest season will be shown on medium haul flights (lasting more than 3h10min).If the same definition is used for catering purposes, this would rule out all European destinations other than SVO and LED as well as all North African destinations other than CAI. Put differently, this would mean Middle East and Russia only.

The English version of the AZ website defines medium-haul as flights with a sector length > 3hrs 10 mins when describing availability of inflight entertainment in business

Thanks - I must have missed it.

On the Moscow-Rome flights, it's not the cutlery that's the problem.

It's broken and uncomfortable seats, surly staff, always being bussed from plane to terminal at Rome so no gain for 'business boarding' (which they ignore at each end anyway); staff refusing to let you sit in the rear rows of seats (even if you've been checked in to one) so that THEY can sleep during the flight; miserable food (honestly, a cheese sandwich accompanied by a bread roll and, um, a slice of cheese!?).

It's broken and uncomfortable seats

? That sounds extremely unlikely/exaggerated, all the short haul aircraft used on international routes have very recent interiors and I never found any problems with the new seats.

Unless, of course, you are one of those people that are talking about some flight five and a half years ago - in the meantime the company has received a major overhaul (although the short haul business is still lacking in parts, it has to be agreed).

To counter your other points, the crew always have rest seats which you can't sit in, that is not limited to AZ; always being bussed could be for a variety of reasons including that the plane may be coming from a schengen destination and therefore can't be attatched by finger because the SVO passengers have to have gone through passport control.

Unless, of course, you are one of those people that are talking about some flight five and a half years ago - in the meantime the company has received a major overhaul (although the short haul business is still lacking in parts, it has to be agreed).
control.


I think you now have to stop making this assumption that anything negative about AZ is about flights taken five years ago I've never seen any post of that nature in 2011. And I have seen enough posts to indicate that my own experience - that the difference between old and new Az is not all that great-- is not isolated.

I've seen crew rest in rear seats (albeit never on such a short sector, but this is Alitalia where staff comfort is top priority so it's possibke. ). But never seen pax allotted seats being thrown out of them, which was the point Colinbray was making. The food also sounds appalling. And while there may be reasons for busing ( when I came from CAI I get a gate, how come?) this is still a negative, if it detracts from the business class priority, other airlines provide separate buses for j pax and board J pax separately .

And I have seen enough posts to indicate that my own experience - that the difference between old and new Az is not all that great-- is not isolated.

Are we talking of the same experience were you were handed out food on a tray in an intercontinental Magnifica flight on the new A330? Just for my understanding.

I've seen crew rest in rear seats (albeit never on such a short sector, but this is Alitalia where staff comfort is top priority so it's possibke. )

There is no crew rest on such short flights, obviously. It's an A321. Also, such aircraft have usually rather new and well maintained seating.

But never seen pax allotted seats being thrown out of them, which was the point Colinbray was making.

Which is what I - and bungler, it seems - doubt highly.

other airlines provide separate buses for j pax and board J pax separately .

At FCO? Such as? Because it sounds like a service which needs to be contracted with the ground handling. I don't remember seeing separate buses for classes at any Italian airport, but I may be mistaken, so help me with an example.

Are we talking of the same experience were you were handed out food on a tray in an intercontinental Magnifica flight on the new A330? Just for my understanding


There is no crew rest on such short flights, obviously. It's an A321. Also, such aircraft have usually rather new and well maintained seating.


Which is what I - and bungler, it seems - doubt highly.


At FCO? Such as? Because it sounds like a service which needs to be contracted with the ground handling. I don't remember seeing separate buses for classes at any Italian airport,
but I may be mistaken, so help me with an example.

You seem to disbelieve anything anyone experiences that is contrary to your perception of Alitalia hence your repeated petulant point about my food experience or your refusal to believe ColinBrays experience wirth seats. I don't do this. Hence, I believe the OP as I find bad service on Alitalia quite common. The hard product has selectively improved but not much else .

On buses, I was referring to worldwide experience --best practice, actually, perhaps not something I should expect from Alitalia -- but I don't get your point. What is preventing Alitalia from contracting this service with
ground handling? The fact that it is separate is a matter of
bureaucracy/contracting. The fact that something dies not happen in any Italian airport should not pose an insuperable barrier to an airline with global pretensions

I was referring to worldwide experience --best practice, actually, perhaps not something I should expect from Alitalia -- but I don't get your point. What is preventing Alitalia from contracting this service with
ground handling? The fact that it is separate is a matter of
bureaucracy/contracting. The fact that something dies not happen in any Italian airport should not pose an insuperable barrier to an airline with global pretensions

I don't really see the benefit of bussing J class passengers separately anyway to be honest. You're supposed to be able to board and unboard at any time you want, and it's a waste of a bus which could slow down boarding.

I don't really see the benefit of bussing J class passengers separately anyway to be honest. You're supposed to be able to board and unboard at any time you want, and it's a waste of a bus which could slow down boarding.

Ok fair point. I think the benefit comes in boarding separately and no stair wait. Also deplaning first and getting to the terminal early. That's been my experience, most recently in Beijing last week

Working in London and New York I always try to fly BA. but being Italian sometime I ended up on AZ.

I totally agree with raistlin.. I've had a better experience on medium haul flight in AZ than Air France or BA. A part from the old MD-80s I've never experienced a broken seat or a crew that doesn't take care of customers.
It's hard to find an attentive crew as you could find on a long-haul flight in a premium class but compared to the intra-european flights I think we can't complain.

Never seen separate buses for J pax flying AF or BA either...

PS In Magnifica they don't serve meals on a tray, it might happens only if someone choose the Kosher option as it is almost always served on specific trays (not only on AZ but on many other airlines too)

On buses, I was referring to worldwide experience There is pretty much no separate bussing anywhere in Europe (or the US for that matter) for C class pax. It is pretty common in the Middle East (both for European and other airlines). One can always isolate something which is practice in some other locales but that is pretty meaningless.

I don't really see the benefit of bussing J class passengers separately anyway to be honest. You're supposed to be able to board and unboard at any time you want, and it's a waste of a bus which could slow down boarding.On boarding, I agree. On disembarking, however, it prevents you from disembarking fast, which is one of the advantages of flying in premium class.

There is pretty much no separate bussing anywhere in Europe (or the US for that matter) for C class pax. It is pretty common in the Middle East (both for European and other airlines). One can always isolate something which is practice in some other locales but that is pretty meaningless.




I agree that this is not common practice in Europe I've been separately bused on Finnair and on LH and LX they give you a limo if in first or top tier FF but given the ubiquity of busing in FCO I think they should consider it.

I agree that this is not common practice in Europe I've been separately bused on Finnair and on LH and LX they give you a limo if in first or top tier FF but given the ubiquity of busing in FCO I think they should consider it.

So, we have gone from "how comes they don't even do this? everyone anywhere does this!" to "a few airports and airlines here and there do this, and LH does this if you are in F (a service class AZ does not even offer)".

Good.

Sooner or later we'll solve the tray mistery, too, I'm sure.

BTW: just to figure out how "common" you can find bad service on AZ, exactly, how many legs have you flown with AZ over the past year? I'm at over 40 and counting (out of 62 total skyteam legs), with no instances of trays in Magnifica, nor of crews snoring on the back seats of Y class aircrafts.

BTW: just to figure out how "common" you can find bad service on AZ, exactly, how many legs have you flown with AZ over the past year? I'm at over 40 and counting (out of 62 total skyteam legs), with no of trays in Magnifica, nor of crews snoring on the back seats of Y class aircrafts.

I have flown eight sectors on Magnifica, all forced by company policy( I don't fly third rate airlines out of choice) and service was poor by international standards on all of them.
On the busing read my post if you need to understand the meaning of the word ubiquity look up a dictionary

I'm not Italian by the way to all AZ defenders. I'm Asian. Just for the record

The rest of your personalized and aggressive post gets the response it deserves, below

So, we have gone from "how comes they don't even do this? everyone anywhere does this!" to "a few airports and airlines here and there do this, and LH does this if you are in F (a service class AZ does not even offer)".

Good.

Sooner or later we'll solve the tray mistery, too, I'm sure.

BTW: just to figure out how "common" you can find bad service on AZ, exactly, how many legs have you flown with AZ over the past year? I'm at over 40 and counting (out of 62 total skyteam legs), with no instances of trays in Magnifica, nor of crews snoring on the back seats of Y class aircrafts.


Grow up.

Understand that agreeing with a different point of view as I did is something constructive and not something to trigger high school defensiveness Try and get rid of the police interrogation mode of speech. It does not really work beyond your teens, you know. Also " I'm the most frequent
frequent flyer on this airline so I must be right" testosterone is something best left behind as an adult

Get a sense of humour. Take a deep breath. it's OK :)

Rathin honestly I have to agree with raistlin again.. He's not the one that has to grow up..

I never received a poor service on AZ (apart from domestic flights on the old MD80), and on TATL they were often better than BA in terms of service (not in terms of hard product though nor lounges)..

Among the skyteam alliance the only carrier that actually gave me a better service had been KLM, AirFrance, Alitalia and Delta are on the same level for me...

apart from domestic flights on the old MD80

I have to say the M80 is one of my favourite Alitalia planes, especially the ones with the huge business class seats which you can get even with an economy ticket on domestic flights. A pity that AZ'll be phasing out the M80's, although it's true they have a higher rate of needing techincal fixes which can cause delays.

I have to say the M80 is one of my favourite Alitalia planes, especially the ones with the huge business class seats which you can get even with an economy ticket on domestic flights.

Love those seats ;-)

But the planes are really getting old and breaking down often. Still, pains my hearth to see them being dismantled in FCO :-(

On the busing read my post if you need to understand the meaning of the word ubiquity look up a dictionary

ubiq·ui·tous
adj \yü-ˈbi-kwə-təs\
Definition of UBIQUITOUS
: existing or being everywhere at the same time : constantly encountered : widespread <a ubiquitous fashion>

Definitely, "present in some airports in Asia" does not match the dictionary's definition of "ubiquitous".

But I will stop feeding the obvious troll.

Love those seats ;-)

[Nostalgic Mode ON] The good old days on the FCO-WAW, 99% of times operated with the mighty Douglas - so many nice memories... And the AliSnack... [Nostalgic Mode OFF]

I fly this route at least once a month. Have done since 2009. On the Alitalia planes with the flaky-felt green seats, they are almost always broken: the armrests don't work, the lumber board wobbles, the recline is stuck up or sometimes (oddly) down. Rarely are the green seats OK.

As for the staff having 'rest seats', so the hell what? They're being paid to work aren't they? My job doesn't pay me to sleep, even if I'm working overnight.

The busses to planes ratio. Seems to happen to lots of aircraft at Rome - domestic, Schengen or otherwise.

I hope you enjoy your job with them, defending their flaccid service deserves a bonus.

On the Alitalia planes with the flaky-felt green seats, they are almost always broken: the armrests don't work, the lumber board wobbles, the recline is stuck up or sometimes (oddly) down. Rarely are the green seats OK.

Perhaps you are referring to the old A321s - if that's the case, I have to agree.

As for the staff having 'rest seats', so the hell what? They're being paid to work aren't they? My job doesn't pay me to sleep, even if I'm working overnight.

Is it your business to organize staff? On most overnight long haul flights there are rest seat for the crew. This is important to maintain alertness and ensure you are flying safe.

Your job doesn't pay you to sleep, but thanks to heavens, you're not flying planes.

I hope you enjoy your job with them, defending their flaccid service deserves a bonus.

I hope you enjoy being so smart, you just discovered the Alitalia conspiracy, tens of employees here to monitor this all-important bullettin board.

Mavala' !

I have flown eight sectors on Magnifica, all forced by company policy( I don't fly third rate airlines out of choice)


http://www.airlinequality.com/StarRanking/3star.htm

TAM Vermelho.....your company policy is killing you :rolleyes:

Ciao
Ulxima

I fly this route at least once a month. Have done since 2009. On the Alitalia planes with the flaky-felt green seats, they are almost always broken: the armrests don't work, the lumber board wobbles, the recline is stuck up or sometimes (oddly) down. Rarely are the green seats OK.
.

I believe that only a small fraction of the AZ fleet has those seats, nowadays: perhaps some old A321s not upgraded to the new std grey seats, and certainly the MD80s to be phased out.

I fly this route at least once a month. Have done since 2009. On the Alitalia planes with the flaky-felt green seats, they are almost always broken: the armrests don't work, the lumber board wobbles, the recline is stuck up or sometimes (oddly) down. Rarely are the green seats OK.

As for the staff having 'rest seats', so the hell what? They're being paid to work aren't they? My job doesn't pay me to sleep, even if I'm working overnight.

The busses to planes ratio. Seems to happen to lots of aircraft at Rome - domestic, Schengen or otherwise.

I hope you enjoy your job with them, defending their flaccid service deserves a bonus.

Now then let's be honest with each other here, because I know for pretty much certain that all A321's have been upgraded with the new seats since at least a year ago already so that shouldn't be a cause for complaint.

Oh and obviously none of us work for AZ but I think you knew that anyway.

...and certainly the MD80s

...which do not operate SVO anyway.

http://www.airlinequality.com/StarRanking/3star.htm

TAM Vermelho.....your company policy is killing you :rolleyes:

Ciao
Ulxima

Couldn't agree more ...company policy sucks see what I have to put up with ...TAM, AZ... :D

At least we don't have diehard defenders of the third rate on the TAM corner of this board....

At least we don't have diehard defenders of the third rate on the TAM corner of this board....


If you wish I can introduce you to someone....
An Italian who lives in Brasil so pretty much like you.
Then you have to explain him how you ended in Vermelho and proudly showing it here...but that is your business, isn't it?

Ciao
Ulxima

If you wish I can introduce you to someone....
An Italian who lives in Brasil so pretty much like you.
Then you have to explain him how you ended in Vermelho and proudly showing it here...but that is your business, isn't it?

Ciao
Ulxima

He defends TAM? Please introduce him to me! I'm sure he will understand how I ended up as vermelho;)

For me airline status is not a matter of pride or nationalism so my Vermelho is a statement of fact, not approbation :rolleyes:

I hope you enjoy your job with them, defending their flaccid service deserves a bonus.


Even though all the diehards appear to be from Italy, i don't think they work for AZ, the responses are too thin-skinned and point scoring. If you know something I don't and they do work for AZ, then god help AZ. The job of customer service is to respond and convince not to contest and defend the indefensible.....

I believe that only a small fraction of the AZ fleet has those seats, nowadays: perhaps some old A321s not upgraded to the new std grey seats, and certainly the MD80s to be phased out.

Based on a post on the AZ Facebook page, Alitalia has phased out 5 MD80s today. Roughly, AZ should have now 10-12 MD80s.

business class buses for boarding is what every middle-eastern airline does...
it means 10+10 minutes more of sleep when you fly at night!

business class buses for boarding is what every middle-eastern airline does...
it means 10+10 minutes more of sleep when you fly at night!

Heh... yes that's possible!

But still it would be a lot of work for little benefit if AZ did this.