Hilton HHonors - HHonors downfall????

Hilton has announced the cancellation of the threshold bonus. This, combined with the previous announced elimination of airline partner bonus points has reduced my HHonors point earning ability about 50%. I know I am moving business more business to Starwood and might possibly gain status again with Marriott after I requalify for PLAT at Starwood. What will others do?

I have not heard about or received any such "announcement."

Indeed, other posters disputed this assertion when you made the exact same claim in this thread, http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum57/HTML/003813.html

and on this thread too,
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum57/HTML/003809.html

How about a copy of the announcement?

Real evidence versus speculation, please?

He has made this same claim on the Hilton forum. It is NOT true.

Important annoucement for HHonors Diamond VIP members


Effective: April 1, 2002


Please note that as of April 1, 2002, you will no longer earn 4,000 HHonors bonus points after every four paid stays in a calander quarter. You will continue to earn a 50% bonus on all HHonors Base points earned as a Diamond VIP, have guaranteed reservations availability, receive upgraded accomodations or amenities, enjoy HHonors hotel rewards without the inconvenience of blackout dates and more. Plus, you will continue to earn both hotel points and airline miles for the same stay - what we call Double Dipping - at more than 2,100 Hilton HHonors hotels worldwide.

You happy now? What benefit would I receive to post bogus information? Why don't you check your facts first!

OK, side issues aside (the topic please!), what do you think of this. I can tell you that in some research i did a few years ago on this very topic, less than 8% of those members i polled who were Diamond actually knew where these threashold bonuses came from and often asked why they got them. While I recognize that the universe of members here are among the most astute in earning points, many of the other members of this program were truly not "stretching" thier travel to make this work. I know that i on occassion did stretch my stays to qualify (1.3 million points in HHonors) it was still something that required a real discipline and probably wasn't as useful to Hilton as other things they might have done to get me continuing to enjoy the most from their program. Reminds me when airlines rid themselves fo the threshold bonuses years ago. If you remember, some programs ended their's and hardly rated a thread on the subject. This is why flyerTalk is so valauble, this and many other subjects are constantly being analyzed on this board for the benefit of many members, so le'ts stay on the topic - not on the members. Besides, if this information proves false, that member may face a time out....

Thanks for the info DLSIZE. This will cost me 24-32K points a year.

I know the feeling. Those 4,000 bonus points really added up. In the statement I just got, it counted for 16,000 points - amlonst enough to cover my PS award in Tokyo last month. No matter if you know about (as Randy says 8% did know) people's HH accounts will not be going up that fast. HH points don't have the greatest value in the world and this nearly 50% earning reduction hurts them. Now, earning 1500 points on one stay if exchanged for miles is less than 500. Combined with the standard 500 miles for 2xdip, you earn less than 1000 miles for a stay (for me....mostly 1 nighters).

At Starwood, my $100/nt = 200 base, 100 bonus, 500 Plat amenity = 800 points x 1.25 miles/pt = 1000 miles. So right there Starwood has overtaken Hilton on a pure mile by mile basis. Now if you keep the points in the hotel program, Starwood really shines now. I have seen that people value Starwood points as 3x as valuable as HHonors. On this conversion, Starwood = 2400 (3 x 800) vs 1500 from Hilton.....more than a 50% advantage. Add in free Fridays, weekends, etc.... and it really pays to stay there when compared to Hiltons.

I like Starwood and I like the Hilton threshold bonuses. But, the bottom line--I just today checked two cities I will visit in April on business, and neither of them had a Starwood property. On the other hand, I will have no problem staying at a Hilton property in these cities.

That is the one downfall to the Starwood program is number of properties and then an offering along the line with Hampton Inn. As I said, if I can find a *wood, I'll use it.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by DLSIZE:
That is the one downfall to the Starwood program is number of properties and then an offering along the line with Hampton Inn. As I said, if I can find a *wood, I'll use it.</font>

Sorry, DLSIZE, I missed where you said this. Is it in one of your posts above? If I had seen it, I wouldn't have pointed out the wider availability of Hilton properties. Sorry if I overlooked this point.

[This message has been edited by TravelWeary (edited 03-19-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TravelWeary:
[B]...Sorry if I overlooked this point.
[B]</font>

I don't think you did, I think I left it out. My mistake. But there are times where *wood will not be an option. In cities with no properties or outrageous prices, I will probably go to a HH property....just happened lst week in Lansing. Sheraton was there, but at $130ish where Hampton was only like $80. Can't justify that....not even on the company dime....plus it was my 16th stay so I got the extra 4,000 points....for the last time..... :-(

I have already raised the point that Hhonors is getting stingy with points for Diamonds. OK. Now if I don't get an upgrade at the Hilton Times Square Thursday and The Drake in a couple weeks, I'll be ready to move over to the Heavenly Beds...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by DLSIZE:

At Starwood, my $100/nt = 200 base, 100 bonus, 500 Plat amenity = 800 points x 1.25 miles/pt = 1000 miles. So right there Starwood has overtaken Hilton on a pure mile by mile basis. Now if you keep the points in the hotel program, Starwood really shines now. I have seen that people value Starwood points as 3x as valuable as HHonors. On this conversion, Starwood = 2400 (3 x 800) vs 1500 from Hilton.....more than a 50% advantage. Add in free Fridays, weekends, etc.... and it really pays to stay there when compared to Hiltons.</font>

I don't think that the *wood page reflects this, but it's been posted that the online booking bonus is extended through the end of the year- so, that's another 500 points per stay!

What about still getting frequent flyer miles that can be converted back to Hilton. If you have 1 night for $100 that is 1,000 points, add 1500 for booking online, add the 50% diamond we are at 3,000 points, add the Hilton AMEX 5 points per dollar with taxes that is 570 more points, add the car rental bonus of 250 points and we are at 3,820 and then getting double miles convert them back to Hilton for double and we have another 2,000 where are we now 5,820 for this visit now use a point stetcher and two nights equals a free weekend

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by DLSIZE:
You happy now? What benefit would I receive to post bogus information? Why don't you check your facts first!</font>

DLSIZE, although I not happy about this change in HiltonHhnors, I am happy that you posted the text of the information that you received. Given the fact that I have not received any similar mailings (yet), there were no "facts to check" at my disposal. Hence my initial request for elucidation of this issue, which you have now kindly furnished.

DSize - it is very strange that HH would simply abolish a major benefit, with virtually no notice at all to members.
We certainly have not been advised, unlike the news of the abolition of the 250 point bonus for partner airlines, which was included on mailouts from the start of 2002.
I understand the cutting back of point earning, and would personally prefer that to raising the point cost of awards. All that I ask HH is that we be given reasonable notice, for planning Hilton stays in the next couple of months.
Koala

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by DLSIZE:
Effective: April 1, 2002 ...</font>

Could this be an April fools joke, given that no one else has reported receiving notice?

Unfortunately, it seems to be true - no more 4,000 point threshold bonus as of April 1, 2002... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

I'm just off the phone with the Diamond desk, and they confirmed this information. It is supposed to appear on the January statement (sent out in March). Without any doubt, Hilton could have done much better job informing us of this change (Adam, are you listening?).

That was a nice bonus, and it will be missed. At the same time, at least in my experience, it was never responsible for anything even remotely close to the 50% of HH points earned. With uneven distribution of stays throughout the year, I think I was getting about 20,000 points or so at the most through the threshold bonus. A single 50K promo (run repeatedly in the last few years) singlehandedly easily dwarfed it.

Also, there are pluses and minuses in every program. If other programs better suit someone's travel patterns - great. For me, I prefer to keep top-tier status in Hilton and Starwood programs, as I would like to take advantage of promotional opportunities offered by both programs at certain times, and (even more importantly) I prefer to have more choices when I travel, so I can select from both Hilton and Starwood properties and know that I'm gonna be treated very well (in most cases, anyway). LAck of Starwood properties in many small cities, along with low quality of many Four Points properties is a strong disadvantage compared to Hilton with Hampton Inns available almost anywhere and being quite consistent in quality (at least compared to other brands).

And "double dipping" (which does not go away, despite claims otherwise) is still the greatest feature of the HHonors program, especially now when they run double miles promo, so besides any and all HH points one earns during the stay, it's also 1,000 airline miles (with the exception of Hampton Inns 200 miles).

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by dhacker:
Could this be an April fools joke, given that no one else has reported receiving notice?

</font>

I am sorry if I offended people by posting info I received from HHonors. In the future maybe I'll just keep things to myself and keep my opinions and plans private. I was just curious to see how people would react to this.

ITS TRUE.
Just opened my statement ..ending January 31, 2002 and the wording as posted by DLSIZE is printed on the back page under HILTON NEWS.
I guess Hilton thinks this may cut down on too many checkin/outs to different properties in the same area. Sad to see the bonus go though.
You guys owe DLSIZE some apollogies.
Mike

[This message has been edited by MIKESILV (edited 03-20-2002).]

I wasn't trying to accuse you of anything. I just noticed the date and wondered if it could have been an April Fools joke on you or by you. Unfortunately, it appears to be a real April Fools by Hhonors on everyone http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by DLSIZE:
I am sorry if I offended people by posting info I received from HHonors.
</font>

DLSIZE -- There is no reason whatsoever for anyone to be offended by you starting this thread.

DLSIZE: Although I didn't question the veracity of your report (at least not publicly http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif), I was grumpy all day yesterday and I think my posts (here and elsewhere) reflect that. I would, thus, like to apologize for that at least and to thank you for bringing this so quickly to our attention. Please don't hesitate in the future to do so again especially if you can quote a source.

Still puzzled why this topic was posted in this forum, especially seeing as DLSIZE posted this same topic in the Hilton forum where it belongs.

No need to double post as those interested in the Hilton program no doubt read the Hilton forum.

I wonder if we haven't answered our own questions as to why they would take this action? I mean it's not in the nature of the CFOs costing these frequent guest programs to give benefits that don't translate into results you can't get any other way.

In the case of the smaller cities where the only *wood properties are the occasional Four Points (which in my personal experience are dreadful), Hilton has a huge advantage between Hampton Inns, Homewood Suites, etc. So why incent us? They've got the advantage anyway just by being there.

Now this "why buy what you have anyway" theory works fine if you are only considering the smaller markets and only considering the competition between Starwood and Hilton. But what about the larger markets and what about Hilton vs. Marriott properties, Choice properties, SixContinents properties, etc. ??

I guess what I'm asking is what is the financial logic behind this decision. I guarantee it isn't the marketing guy who drove this move...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by DLSIZE:
I am sorry if I offended people by posting info I received from HHonors. In the future maybe I'll just keep things to myself and keep my opinions and plans private. I was just curious to see how people would react to this.

</font>

I've seen this information elsewhere in FT posted by DLSize, with information not yet validated by others here.
DL, if you're trying to knock HHonors and swing more FTalkers to stay at Starwood, why don't you also tell us how many *wood points they're paying you to do this, so we can all benefit from their advertising campaign?




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share the knowledge = share the wealth

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mitquack:
I've seen this information elsewhere in FT posted by DLSize, with information not yet validated by others here.
DL, if you're trying to knock HHonors and swing more FTalkers to stay at Starwood, why don't you also tell us how many *wood points they're paying you to do this, so we can all benefit from their advertising campaign?


</font>

Hey ducky how about reading some of the other posts here and in the Hilton forum before coming to such a less than intelligent conclusion.
Mike


[This message has been edited by MIKESILV (edited 03-20-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MIKESILV:
[B] Hey ducky how about reading some of the other posts here and in the Hilton forum before coming to such a less than intelligent conclusion.
B]</font>

Mike, upon further review, I have come to the conclusion that there's some legitimate info here.

However, if you would also read into the same thread just a bit further, you'll also realize there's no other program out there that offers you the opportunity to Double Dip or give you the versatility like HHonors points.

I used to be a huge fan of AMEX until I started to do some calculations on the dollar spent vs. reward. With my current situation and my past experience with HHonors, I just think it's a bit petty to pick on HHonors for making a financial decision.

Furthermore, road warriors like the Diamond members can earn some serious bonuses (50% bonus points), I doubt they would be hurt by the new policy changes.

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share the knowledge = share the wealth

[This message has been edited by mitquack (edited 03-20-2002).]

mitquack:

I am certainly in agreement with you. DLSIZE posted this same info on the Hilton board and although I have no problem crying wolf here, I think it only reasonable that I restate my comments herein, to those that already have been raised by yourself and others.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">

Well, it certainly is nice to earn extra points, and I don't disagree with some of your references to Starwood.

BUT, quite frankly, the 4,000 point threshold bonus, IMHO, is a drop in the bucket compared to other point earning opportunities from Hilton.

Foremost among them are the free credit cards where you earn either 2 to 3 HHonors points per $ for Non Hilton charges.

Although frequent travelers may bemoan the loss of that bonus, many infrequent travelers rarely register 4 stays within a quarter, as the paltry 4,000 points is not really offset by the extra expense that you, and not your company, would occur for that bonus.

Moreover, many road warriors like the fact that they can earn both points and miles, and sometimes double miles, with their stay, so it comes down to a personal decision.

Whatever floats your boat.</font>


DLSIZE --

Downfall????

Get a grip and please be less melodramatic!

You are entitled to your opinions, etc. but I still think that HHonors is the best program for many of us out here, with or without the threshold bonus.

DOC

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I don't know if you've enjoyed the benefits from HHonors like I did:

1. got a nice Bose radio through the 2001 Holiday Catalog site in 2 days, the points were taken instantly from my account, and Ashford sent it with such care, it was really impressive

2. I'm a few thousand points short of going to Hawaii, again... Starwood certainly doesn't have a property like the Hilton Hawaiian Village.

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share the knowledge = share the wealth

Everyone attaches different values. I earn on Virgin and get 1000 miles per stay at Hilton and Doubletree, 500 at others, that I earned 32,000 miles and 192000 points of which 8000 were threshold. I am standing with hilton, its a shame, but its not critical. Oh and tommorw i have a personal stay at the trafalger square, to get my 3rd bonus for the quater - welll wouldnt you ??

Jon

oh I forgot to mention the double stays and nights to requalification that a lot of us had - I have 24 stays and 36 nights now http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif and you know there will be another ewrdc along soon