Women Travelers - Places you have felt unsafe alone in Europe while traveling?

I will be traveling around europe for 5 months next year and much of it alone.

Are there places as a woman alone that I should avoid and are there places that just gave you the unsafe feeling?

I will be traveling around europe for 5 months next year and much of it alone.

Are there places as a woman alone that I should avoid and are there places that just gave you the unsafe feeling?

Are you looking for general (hotel rooms away from the elevator?) or specific (the XYZ Hotel?) responses? If specific ones, it would help if you shared your itinerary.

I will be traveling around europe for 5 months next year and much of it alone.

Are there places as a woman alone that I should avoid and are there places that just gave you the unsafe feeling?This seems to be a general question. Use the common sense you practice about safety at home and apply it while abroad. Don't walk down dark streets alone. Stay in well lit areas.

I meant more specific as in terms of location, not general safety tips. I am aware of how to be safe as a woman alone....

Places meaning geographic locations.

I am aware of how to be safe as a woman alone....

Specific as in "On the area around X Street in Y town witnessed open air drug deals, and would not go there at night", "Friend was mugged in Z city and no witnesses even tried to help" sort of things.

I know I wouldn't feel safe walking alone in downtown Waterbury, CT after dark even if I was walking a huge mean-looking dog. I don't think I would feel safe in much of Mexico at any time with all the drug killings going on....

'Europe' is far too vague. Without details it is difficult to say much other than practice common sense.

I would venture that 'Europe' is even far more diverse than 'North America' and thus you can see why it is almost impossible to give an answer.

Having said that, I rarely feel unsafe in most places I travel around Europe. But that varies from country to country, city to city, neighbourhood to neighbourhood.

I meant more specific as in terms of location, not general safety tips. I am aware of how to be safe as a woman alone....

Places meaning geographic locations.

I am aware of how to be safe as a woman alone....

Specific as in "On the area around X Street in Y town witnessed open air drug deals, and would not go there at night", "Friend was mugged in Z city and no witnesses even tried to help" sort of things.

I know I wouldn't feel safe walking alone in downtown Waterbury, CT after dark even if I was walking a huge mean-looking dog. I don't think I would feel safe in much of Mexico at any time with all the drug killings going on....Any of that can happen anywhere. Will you avoid major cities like Paris because of reported criminal activity? Common sense will prevail that you won't walk alone in a deserted alley where drug deals might be occurring. I haven't been to Waterbury in ages but if you were walking at night with that giant dog in a crowded, well-lit area, you still wouldn't feel safe? If so, wherever you go, get back to the hotel before dark.

I have travelled alone to Paris, Frankfurt, Düsseldorf, Dortmund, Munich, Madrid, Ibiza, Barcelona, Tokyo, Kyoto, Montréal, Vancouver...ok, you said Europe. I follow the same common sense I have living here in NYC. I stay with the crowds, I walk in well-lit areas, and I enjoy all that is around me.

Take a look at some of the threads here in the women's forum about FTers who have travelled alone and what their itineraries & experiences were. I think you'll find that you have more options than you could possibly imagine.

I will be traveling around europe for 5 months next year and much of it alone.

Are there places as a woman alone that I should avoid and are there places that just gave you the unsafe feeling?

Plenty, but then it was a gut feeling at the time, based on time of day, based on people around, based on what I was doing / wearing etc. I don't think I would give a blanket 'avoid' to those places as it depends on circumstance.

I do try to stick with the main streets in a city I am unfamiliar with (there are so many alleys etc, many of which are perfectly safe short cuts, but if you don't know, don't risk it). I dislike being harrassed by people at stations, airports etc, so I always make sure I know where I am going, and walk with purpose. Whilst you may not pass for a local, you may well pass for someone who knows the scams and will pick an easier target.

I feel uncomfortable on my own around large football grounds piling out, so avoid them, and avoid trains with large numbers of fans onboard. Whilst I am used to the more forwardness, being hit on etc. it can make me uncomfortable if they are drunk, and there are a few of them.

There are certainly specific areas of certain towns I would prefer not to wander alone, but as many of them are not typical tourist towns, won't list - an itinerary would certainly help you get specifics.

I have traveled extensively on my own in Europe. I have never felt unsafe, but then I am not out walking in sketchy neighborhoods nor on my own late at night. Also, I have the funds to ask for a taxi if my meal goes late and I need to return to my hotel. I simply use the same instincts I would in San Francisco or New York or Hong Kong.

emma69 gives sage advice on situations that I, too, avoid.

After I posted on this thread I was having a conversation with some colleagues. As a group we come from four different continents and have been to many places around the world considered dangerous (There was reminiscing about a recent trip to Tripoli, for instance). I didn't refer specifically to this thread, but rather generally to something in the US.

And at least three people from various European countries burst out 'But the US is so much more dangerous than Europe!'

I know that there is a perception that 'Europe' is filled with pickpockets, waiting to prey on unsuspecting tourists, especially those from relatively wealthy countries. That stereotype isn't true, just as CSI Miami doesn't represent daily life either.

There is some good general information in here but I think previous threads have covered the basics and generalities of women and travel safety.

I don't have an itinerary other than to know I will be in Europe from May-September with a good amount spent in the UK. I may not ever get a chance to do this again and want to make the best of the trip and visit as many places as possible and experience as much as I can.

I will be following the advice of the US State Department travel advisories and will not go to any countries on their list, other than that, I am not sure I would feel safe in some of the Eastern European countries, although I may venture to some just to go fishing ans stick to daylight hours...

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_1764.html

All that said, the only place so far I have ever felt at all unsafe in Europe was in Pigalle in Paris, just below Sacre Coeur where all the thrift-type and souvenir places are. There seemed to be gypsies there trying to create commotion and distract people. I didn't feel I was in danger personally but did feel my wallet would be missing if I wasn't so aware and a little more on alert than usual, and making sure to hold purse strap crossbody with arm covering the opening/zipper.

Seriously, don't bother reading that State Department information. It's full of fear-mongering. Read the page about Switzerland, for instance. I'm surprised that they don't list one more danger about that country - that one cannot flush toilets overnight. :rolleyes:

And don't fall for those scams in Paris or other large cities. I have never been approached. Americans often tend to be very friendly, and people know it. If someone runs after you crying 'speak English?' at a major tourist site, keep walking. If someone asks you to help find their gold ring, keep walking. If someone wants you to sign their petition, keep walking.

Would you stop and play a shell game on a street in New York? If not, don't do it elsewhere.

It's really all about common sense. Many of us actually live here and don't feel unsafe.

Switzerland isn't on the list- am I missing something here??



Seriously, don't bother reading that State Department information. It's full of fear-mongering. Read the page about Switzerland, for instance. I'm surprised that they don't list one more danger about that country - that one cannot flush toilets overnight. :rolleyes:

It's really all about common sense. Many of us actually live here and don't feel unsafe.

Switzerland isn't on the list- am I missing something here??

It is on the list of countries the State Department compiles. Also be careful of volcanoes in Vatican City. :rolleyes:

If you are referring to the list of current travel warnings, I don't see a single country in western Europe listed. I have also been to some of the countries on the list and have not felt unsafe.

Frankly, the State Department list reinforces stereotypes and tends to be overly cautious. I would be curious to see what it would like for the US as a whole.

I've never felt unsafe in Europe but perhaps it's a function of where I'm traveling from and the brief amount of time I've had available to hike around wherever I land in Europe. (I envy your 5 month trip!) I've been to London, several other parts of England, Paris, Amsterdam, several parts of Germany, Lisbon and Sintra, and Istanbul. Can't think of anyplace else I've been, since Europe is kinda pricey for me. Super safe though. Most of those places I've traveled completely alone or done substantial hiking alone. No worries. I'm from New Orleans and I spend a great deal of time in Vegas, and I'm a pretty hard sell if you're going to impress me with how dangerous you are. I realize Paris and London think they have crime, but that's their opinion, and their opinion makes me smile, sort of like a 10 year old boy boasting how street they are.

Now, I wouldn't let those guys near the Sacred Heart in Paris put strings on my finger but that's just common sense, methinks, and anyway that's a hustle, not a violent crime, right?

Enjoy your trip. Before I traveled much, I used to be terribly afraid of the Artful Dodger/pickpocketed type of crime, because Europe has a reputation for the skilled criminals, and I'm sure it still happens, but at the end of the day, getting pickpocketed is probably not the end of the world. If that's the best they can do for crime, bless their hearts. In New Orleans, we've had cops on death row. You won't be seeing that kind of action in Paris!

To me one of the pleasures of Europe is that even though it's dark all the time (you can tell I get the discount winter flights) it doesn't matter. A middle-aged woman can stroll around at night, and it's cool. No one is looking to attack you. Once in awhile, someone is looking for a sugar mama and may try to romance you, but you can brush that off politely, I'm sure.

I don't have an itinerary other than to know I will be in Europe from May-September with a good amount spent in the UK. I may not ever get a chance to do this again and want to make the best of the trip and visit as many places as possible and experience as much as I can. What a fantastic opportunity! Plan your trip based on your own interests. You've got a tremendous amount of time. Be as street smart as you would be in New York. And have a wonderful time. :)

thank you Analise!! You have been so kind to me and helped me in my travels so much in the past, and I am so grateful. I was able to do much more than I would have otherwise snd really fell in love with what I have seen of Europe and want to see even more!

This trip is going to be amazing, I am taking time planning it and some parts planned areound events and, others spur of moment, wherever the wind or mood takes me.....

I had a bad flare and realized that if I don't do this now, I may never have the chance.

Much depends on budget this trip so no fancy 4*, it will be hostels, maybe even some couch surfing, friends, I am sure trains, etc... I can't wait!!!




What a fantastic opportunity! Plan your trip based on your own interests. You've got a tremendous amount of time. Be as street smart as you would be in New York. And have a wonderful time. :)

thank you Analise!! You have been so kind to me and helped me in my travels so much in the past, and I am so grateful.Thank you! You are very kind.

I was able to do much more than I would have otherwise snd really fell in love with what I have seen of Europe and want to see even more!

This trip is going to be amazing, I am taking time planning it and some parts planned areound events and, others spur of moment, wherever the wind or mood takes me.....

I had a bad flare and realized that if I don't do this now, I may never have the chance.

Much depends on budget this trip so no fancy 4*, it will be hostels, maybe even some couch surfing, friends, I am sure trains, etc... I can't wait!!!Have you ever used Priceline? I started long before I got married and found in major cities, I could stay in 4*, 3.5*, and 3* hotels more cheaply than what it costs to stay in a budget hotel. Do your research in advance about youth hostels in the cities you plan to visit. Youth hostels make long trips like yours affordable which is great. Maybe priceline a hotel on a few occasions to add a little bit of luxury.

That you are travelling "wherever the win or mood takes" you sounds like a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. I assumed you would have friends you can visit and stay with on a sofa for a night or two. On a long trip such as that, it's nice seeing a friendly face whom you also know as well.

have used priceline extensively and its saved me a ton of money.

I will be visiting many friends but much is on my own as well, about 50% I would say. I will also be with others parts of the trip as I have asked a few friends and family to come to visit parts (Italy, etc). Hoping my youngest daughter can come to London for a week this trip- she wants to do the Harry Potter scavenger hunt!

Yes, avoid alleys. My daughter was robbed in daylight in an alley while jogging a few blocks from Trafalgar Square. Her iphone was taken since she didn't have any wallet on her.

I am originally from Europe and travel extensively. Here are a few pointers:

- Try to blend in (e.g. no white sneakers). Dress like the locals.
- At night European cities are usually much quieter than American cities. So avoid walking alone at night. In New York (where I currently live) if you walk alone in the evening, there will be bodegas, pharmacies and other stores open. In Paris, for instance, almost everything is closed at night and most streets are desert after midnight, making the atmosphere quite eerie!
- Beware of pickpockets. Avoid carrying around a touristy backpack that will attract attention. Travel around with a purse with a zipper (Longchamp has great bags!)
- Avoid public transportation after 11pm (in Paris the subway closes between 1am and 5.30am anyway).
- Avoid walking around in some of the big cities suburbs. Not all are dangerous but do your homework.

Have a fun trip!

I'm from 'Europe'. I know lots of places which are dodgy to walk around. I'll start with Fairfield in Perth. Are you going there? I doubt it.

I've been uncomfortable walking away from Victoria one evening back to my hotel in Pimlico. Are you going there?

I got my bag snatched on the train from CDG to Gar du Nord but shouted at the guy and managed to get him to give me most of my stuff back.

I walked across BCN drunkenly at 4 am in the morning by myself, and was nervous because someone seemed to be following me. However i don't know if they were or not so that could have been my fault.

I've crossed Leith Links in Edinburgh at night, and again, nothing happened but I was nervous. Was it justified? I don't know. While on the subject of Edinburgh, probably best to avoid the Salamander St region at night as well as Wester Hailes, Craigmillar, Pilrig. There are some dodgy places along the Dalry Road.

Avoid Livingston. (it's not unsafe, it's just horrible)
Going onto Dundee. Whitfield is best avoided and Fintry has gone badly downhill.

Avoid the river area in Blairgowrie at night, the poachers might be out and they aren't nice people. Also drugs are a bit of an issue in the town centre.

Glasgow. Avoid the sink estates. Avoid East Kilbride for the same reasons as Livingstone.

OK, that's really all I have time to do at the moment, but I'll be back to update. Or you might provide details as to where you are going, such that we can actually provide information that is relevant, instead of expecting us to braindump everything we know about a continent I've lived on for years.

Perhaps you would be willing to do write down a list of places you know to avoid in the US, or anywhere you've ever felt unsafe? Then you might start to realise the magnitude of the task you've asked us to do for you.

Avoid public transportation after 11pm (in Paris the subway closes between 1am and 5.30am anyway). A generalisation too far. In London the Tube is generally fine - for the final hour, I'll be careful about which carriage I get in, making sure there are couples etc and no drunks/weirdos. The night buses in Edinburgh are perfectly safe all through the night, since most of the city use them to get home as taxis are rare as hens teeth from about midnight onwards. So don't automatically assume that it will be unsafe. Have a plan B for getting home late night, but be prepared to try public transport.

Perhaps you would be willing to do write down a list of places you know to avoid in the US, or anywhere you've ever felt unsafe? Then you might start to realise the magnitude of the task you've asked us to do for you.

A generalisation too far. In London the Tube is generally fine - for the final hour, I'll be careful about which carriage I get in, making sure there are couples etc and no drunks/weirdos. The night buses in Edinburgh are perfectly safe all through the night, since most of the city use them to get home as taxis are rare as hens teeth from about midnight onwards. So don't automatically assume that it will be unsafe. Have a plan B for getting home late night, but be prepared to try public transport.

I agree. There are far too many variables across 'Europe' for us to compile some sort of list. And things vary by country, by region, by city, and by neighbourhood. I would take the Paris metro back to my neighbourhood at night without feeling unsafe, but I would hesitate to take the regular RER service from CDG late at night alone.

And I wouldn't have any issue walking around in the dark in my southern France location, but I would avoid certain streets in certain towns or cities after dark. And just as I would take the night bus in Edinburgh, I would take the Noctambus.

The best advice is to do what you would do at home to be safe. That includes a lot of the information provided here which is really just common sense. In general, trying to blend in and not appear nervous, or out of place, is good advice.

you might provide details as to where you are going, such that we can actually provide information that is relevant, instead of expecting us to braindump everything we know about a continent I've lived on for years.

Perhaps you would be willing to do write down a list of places you know to avoid in the US, or anywhere you've ever felt unsafe? Then you might start to realise the magnitude of the task you've asked us to do for you.



I don't have an itinerary at the moment and won't until probably weeks before I leave, with the plans I am sure getting changed around a bit as I travel. Most is not going to be set in stone at all but some, as I have mentioned will be as there are certain things I need/want to attend and will organize travel around those. For instance mid June I need to be in Berlin for a conference...

Variables include health, finances, etc. My doc is talking about a round of chemo and long term low dose chemo so I may be taking a leave at work which would mean less $$, more expenses and would shorten the trip. If my flare continues to improve and nothing that is a major unexpected expense happens between now and then I should be just fine.

If all goes right and all the stars and planets align I will have a total of 5 months to play and travel. I am hoping my boyfriend retires or takes a leave so he can join me on much of this, and also hoping daughters can do some parts as well.

Actually one of the only places I wouldn't feel safe walking alone at night would be Brockton and Dorchester, Massachusetts which are suburbs of Boston as well as Waterbury, CT and parts of Bridgeport, CT..... I can't recall any other places I have genuinely felt unsafe and actually never been walking there but was creeped out enough in vehicles to know I would never walk there.

Not really sure why so many people here are acting like this an insurmountable task and I am asking such a hard question? I asked a large group of men who travel this very same question and they were very specific and right to the point and extremely helpful with suggestions on places to avoid. I think they were thinking in terms of what advice they would give their wife, mother, sister if they were alone on a trip....

I thought asking women direclty their personal experiences would get me some direct answers from personal experience as well.

Variables include health, finances, etc. My doc is talking about a round of chemo and long term low dose chemo so I may be taking a leave at work which would mean less $$, more expenses and would shorten the trip. If my flare continues to improve and nothing that is a major unexpected expense happens between now and then I should be just fine....good luck.

Actually one of the only places I wouldn't feel safe walking alone at night would be Brockton and Dorchester, Massachusetts which are suburbs of Boston as well as Waterbury, CT and parts of Bridgeport, CT.....From my experience with Bridgeport, your response is pure common sense. I haven't been to the Dorchester neighborhood of Boston or Brockton. When you sense a dangerous area like Bridgeport at night, you know not to be there alone. Bridgeport at night is mostly deserted. Follow that same common sense in the European cities which interest you. They'll be a HECK of a lot more interesting than Bridgeport. :D Afterall, those who work there tend to flock to Trumbull when the day is done. ;)

I asked a large group of men who travel this very same question and they were very specific and right to the point and extremely helpful with suggestions on places to avoid. I think they were thinking in terms of what advice they would give their wife, mother, sister if they were alone on a trip....What was their specific advice?

Not really sure why so many people here are acting like this an insurmountable task and I am asking such a hard question? I asked a large group of men who travel this very same question and they were very specific and right to the point and extremely helpful with suggestions on places to avoid. I think they were thinking in terms of what advice they would give their wife, mother, sister if they were alone on a trip....

I thought asking women direclty their personal experiences would get me some direct answers from personal experience as well.

Well, frankly, asking about 'Europe' is just so vague. There are so many countries, cultures, types of cities, towns etc in that term. I have no idea if you mean UK to north western Europe, or if you are including the Balkans, the Baltics, Russia, Azerbaijan, etc in that term.

And we don't know YOU and your personality, your beliefs, etc. We don't know your language skills.

Take Berlin. You are going for a conference, so chances are that you won't be straying too far from the major tourist sites.

But I have no idea is taking the S-bahn is something which would make you feel nervous. I have no idea if being surrounded by various ethnic groups and cultures would make you feel nervous. I have no idea if walking in the dark in a neighbourhood would make you feel nervous.

I don't mean that to sound negative, but I honestly have no idea. If for instance you wanted to visit the Haus at Checkpoint Charlie, which is open late, you could have a nice walk from Potsdamer Platz (hypothetical location of your conference). That walk passes a lot of historical sites. But at night some of those streets, even the larger ones, are quite quiet as they also pass through residential areas filled with apartment blocks populated by Germans as well as various ethnic groups.

I personally have no issue with that. But who knows how you would feel, in a city where you don't know the layout and the language?

And people here told me that I was stupid to walk all over Berlin to see the Christmas markets in the deep snow last year, because of the terror alert and the closing of the Reichstag. At no point did I feel nervous, but many people here do worry about terror attacks. Did you know that in Germany UXBs are detonated or disposed of weekly? It is a fact of life, along with terror alerts, but most people just go about their business and don't buy into the business of fear which has become so prevalent in the last decade, especially in the US.

You most likely won't be going to Kreuzberg or Neukölln, but I have no idea if you are familiar with the reputation and sometimes stereotypes of that area and the residents. I have no idea who you feel about 'Muslims' and what your reaction is to a large group of people from a secular Muslim country.

And then there are the myths that 'Europe is unsafe' and that terrorism and pickpocketing is somehow rampant in 'Europe'. That is just as mythical as believing that travelling to the US will put one in danger of shootouts, and that most people there carry guns.

Honestly, it really is a huge task you have given us, and if I came here and said that I was travelling to North America and wanted to know where you felt unsafe, what would you tell me? Would you think that was a reasonable question, or would you too wonder how to answer?

Edited to add: I just read back a page of your posts to try and learn something about you to try and be more helpful. In one thread you said that you stopped and tried to communicate with the scam artists in Paris who tend to prey on obvious tourists, and most commonly obvious American tourists. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/france/1222384-what-they-trying-get-me-sign-paris-2.html#post17080361

Don't do that! Seriously. Don't try and be the nice, friendly person you may be at home whilst walking unfamiliar streets in major tourist areas, where you most likely stand out as not a local. I have never once in my life been stopped by these type of people in Paris main areas, but I see that all the time. I said upthread that Americans tend to be very friendly, but you need to realise that you are making yourself a target, just as you found out.

In many cultures in Europe, smiling at random strangers on the street and making chit chat may mean that you are a tourist, or else that there is something a little wrong with you, or that you are trying to divert ones attention. That may sound harsh and alien to you, but as you saw, trying to be nice, or polite, or helpful, ended up with you being in a negative situation.

[QUOTE=exbayern;17159437]
I just read back a page of your posts to try and learn something about you to try and be more helpful. In one thread you said that you stopped and tried to communicate with the scam artists in Paris who tend to prey on obvious tourists, and most commonly obvious American tourists. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/france/1222384-what-they-trying-get-me-sign-paris-2.html#post17080361
QUOTE]

Firstly I didn't stop, I made some common sign language signs- one that asked if they were deaf was the first one. When they didn't know that I made the sign for "sorry" and "no" and kept on , which ticked off this one woman (who obv wasn't deaf).

What I have asked has nothing to do with my likes, dislikes, anything. How I feel around any group of people has nothing to with it either. I am asking for your experiences that you personally have had.

The men's advice? Stay clear of certain roads in Amsterdam after dark and alleyways. Also outer parts of London and a few dodgy neighborhoods after dark. They mentioned streets Rome as well as other areas and Naples. Parts of Easter Europe, etc. Also Paris areas Chatelet-Les Halles and the Pompidou Center can be iffy at times, Praga area of Warsaw,Istanbul,

Firstly I didn't stop, I made some common sign language signs- one that asked if they were deaf was the first one. When they didn't know that I made the sign for "sorry" and "no" and kept on , which ticked off this one woman (who obv wasn't deaf).

What I have asked has nothing to do with my likes, dislikes, anything. How I feel around any group of people has nothing to with it either. I am asking for your experiences that you personally have had.

The men's advice? Stay clear of certain roads in Amsterdam after dark and alleyways. Also outer parts of London and a few dodgy neighborhoods after dark. They mentioned streets Rome as well as other areas and Naples. Parts of Easter Europe, etc. Also Paris areas Chatelet-Les Halles and the Pompidou Center can be iffy at times, Praga area of Warsaw,Istanbul,

But you engaged, and that draws attention to yourself as someone unfamilar with the various scams. I realise that you didn't know it was a scam, but what I meant is that these things exist, and that they prey on obvious tourists or anyone who will engage them. Another example is the women who wear middle Eastern style clothing and rush after tourists (usually women) asking 'Speak English?!' in a distressed fashion.

Again, don't engage. (And by the way, ASL is not spoken or understood by all users of sign language. ASL and BSL are very dissimilar, for instance)

The male advice seems pretty vague. Parts of Eastern Europe? That covers thousands of kilometres. Istanbul? An entire city of 13 million people?

Your responses to various groups do influence how I would answer. Do you feel uncomfortable being in places where you do not speak the language, and/or where there are people from certain cultures? Take Istanbul for example from your post. Would you be uncomfortable travelling to a country where most people are Muslim (albeit a secular state) and many people do not speak English? Turkey in general is a country I consider 'easy' or even 'very easy' in some areas for the western tourist.

Asking us to list decades worth of experiences in a vast area of land just isn't realistic. And some of the things posted on this thread are just too broad to be helpful. Avoid alleys? Some of the most popular places in western Europe are located in alleys and lanes, especially in pedetrian zones. I would amend that advice to avoid deserted areas, especially after dark, but I wouldn't tell someone to avoid alleys.

Unless you provide some specific information, I just don't think that we can give you the details you seem to be seeking. And the advice I would give you for instance would most likely be very different than the advice I would give a different poster, who may be a more experienced traveller or who may have different beliefs or viewpoints.

Heh. I like how the men advised you to avoid Istanbul. Well, Istanbul seemed perfectly safe to me, but some of the Turkish men who might try to flirt/hook up with you are very attractive and I can see why the boys back home might not like the thought of you wandering around over there...

I think you are worrying too much, and you'll feel a bit silly once you're actually on your trip and you see how safe it is for women compared to the United States. I know I did.

If it matters, I felt very safe at the Madrid train station. Then I discovered I'd been robbed.

The OP is just asking us for our personal experiences where we may have felt unsafe in Europe. It has always been train stations where I felt a sense of danger, but in fact nothing has really happened to me so far. We were stalked on a Sunday afternoon in Lisbon Oriente. In Naples and Rome, the bad vibes of petty theft and shady characters were palpable (and the cabbies none too honest, either). The ladies room in Bologna station had containers in the toilet stalls for dropping hypodermic needles. These train stations had unsavory aspects but I was never afraid for my safety, only my property. The only time I was really scared was arriving late at night in the Prague train station with dim lighting, no other travellers getting off but us and no guards, and the local guys hanging out were very intimidating. There's nothing to be done about train stations if you like to ride trains as I do; they're public places. Just try to avoid a late arrival, or at the very least find out beforehand about transportation to your hotel. Have your luggage organized so you can easily manage it without help, keep anything valuable next to your body, and keep moving in a confidant manner.

Well, on a Sunday in Salzburg there was an odd fellow who had approached me on the train and followed me out of the station. It felt a little off.

That was in 1989. I don't know how that really is helpful. One uncomfortable situation once at one train station in one city in one country on a continent isn't really going to be helpful to the OP.

I am train stations in Europe a lot. (Taking a train is normal transportation to work/school/shopping for many of us) I related how I was at one of the main stations and one of the largest in Europe during a perfect storm earlier this year, but I didn't feel unsafe.

Again, I think that the best advice is to use common sense and practice the same habits you would do at home, in similar locations.

Thank you for understanding. I am sure the others on here splitting atoms do understand as well, they just are determined to be difficult and evidently have some bullyish tendencies still left in them.

I am really surprised by some of the responses on here and dismayed actually.

The OP is just asking us for our personal experiences where we may have felt unsafe in Europe. It has always been train stations where I felt a sense of danger, but in fact nothing has really happened to me so far. We were stalked on a Sunday afternoon in Lisbon Oriente. In Naples and Rome, the bad vibes of petty theft and shady characters were palpable (and the cabbies none too honest, either). The ladies room in Bologna station had containers in the toilet stalls for dropping hypodermic needles. These train stations had unsavory aspects but I was never afraid for my safety, only my property. The only time I was really scared was arriving late at night in the Prague train station with dim lighting, no other travellers getting off but us and no guards, and the local guys hanging out were very intimidating. There's nothing to be done about train stations if you like to ride trains as I do; they're public places. Just try to avoid a late arrival, or at the very least find out beforehand about transportation to your hotel. Have your luggage organized so you can easily manage it without help, keep anything valuable next to your body, and keep moving in a confidant manner.

Your responses to various groups do influence how I would answer. Do you feel uncomfortable being in places where you do not speak the language, and/or where there are people from certain cultures? Take Istanbul for example from your post. Would you be uncomfortable travelling to a country where most people are Muslim (albeit a secular state) and many people do not speak English? Turkey in general is a country I consider 'easy' or even 'very easy' in some areas for the western tourist.

Asking us to list decades worth of experiences in a vast area of land just isn't realistic. And some of the things posted on this thread are just too broad to be helpful. Avoid alleys? Some of the most popular places in western Europe are located in alleys and lanes, especially in pedetrian zones. I would amend that advice to avoid deserted areas, especially after dark, but I wouldn't tell someone to avoid alleys.

Unless you provide some specific information, I just don't think that we can give you the details you seem to be seeking. And the advice I would give you for instance would most likely be very different than the advice I would give a different poster, who may be a more experienced traveller or who may have different beliefs or viewpoints.

Well then if my responses affect how safe you felt in various areas I think you are missing the point entirely and please don't answer and pick apart what you perceive as my travel style or anything else.

I am not asking where I would feel safe, I was very specific in asking where you felt safe. Sorry if that seems so complicated to the few on here that insist on splitting hairs and acting a bit bullyish on their answers.

What I have posted is generalities based on what others have shared- there was more specific info, not just istanbul in entirety.

If you don't have anything meaningful to share, then please move along and let the others who do respond instead of trying to pick me or my question apart. I don't need that, thank you very much.

Your original question as many have pointed out is far too vague and far too broad.

You seem to not understand that 'Europe' encompasses a vast number of different cultures, and countries, and spreads across thousands of kilometres.

If I posted a similar question and asked people to list all the places in Canada, the United States, the Caribbean, and Mexico where they had felt 'unsafe' in their lifetime, would that not appear to be a rather odd, non-specific question?

There are many FTers who do tend to lump all these different countries and cultures into something called 'Europe', and who don't seem to understand all the variables. If you had posted this question on the 'Europe' part of this website I suspect many of the replies would have been less charitable and less helpful.

Again, do as you would do at home. Several of us from 'Europe' have tried to offer that advice, whilst pointing out that answering the original question really isn't that simple as you seem to want it to be.

A question for you - are you going to build your itinerary in part based on the answers you receive? Or do you already have some idea of where you will be going? Several of us have asked for some detail as that will help us to help you.

My answer to Berlin for instance since you are going there is that I have not felt unsafe anywhere in Berlin since 1989.

OP, you may find this link useful. It is geared towards women travelling alone, albeit it mainly in budget accommodation. It doesn't have the specifics you are seeking, but has some generally good advice.

Although Europe is made up of a vast number of countries, each with a very individual culture, women traveling here will, as a general rule, feel safe and at home. Female backpackers will typically encounter liberal attitudes towards women and it is not unusual to see local women also on their own, particularly in the north and west. http://www.hostelbookers.com/article/travel-for-women/europe/

Thanks for the link. I also just got a book today in the mail about women and travel I am excited to read.

The trip is one I have wanted to do for a long time. If I don't do it now I am afraid I never will be able to do it at all as illness has at times been threatening my freedoms and I am finally forced to admit that this disease I have is progressive (I had been in denial I guess) and so far I have been very lucky but tomorrow could be a different story, as the flare I have been having is proving to me now. I guess it was a wake up call of sorts getting so sick so fast and not bouncing right back as I have before. I can't take things for granted anymore and I just don't want to be regretting not doing this later in life. If I am going to be limited by illness and disability in the future, I sure as heck want as many great memories, and photo albums to look over during that time as possible!!

There is a lot of variables but ideally I will have from May through September to travel and see as many places as possible. I want to see the big places and moreso I want to see the places off the beaten path that regular tourists don't usually see or experience.

I plan on taking a leave of absence or quitting my job entirely as I won't have trouble finding work when I return and honestly not sure where I will land in the US. I will store my things until I get back.

I am not being vague I just really don't know how much of the trip is feasable and won't know until time nears. Depends on my health and my finances (which are dependent on my health) and how well I can ambulate I suppose. If I can bikeride or hike some of it I may be able to see more places then being dependent on public transport. I love to walk but sometimes its a harder to get around- other times you can't nail me down to a spot or keep me still for even a minute.

Being able to find bargains and lowering my standards will help immensely.

I have joined Servas, will look at couch surfing and other travel exchange type groups. I will stay with friends, and stay in hostels. I am sure one friends place will be home base and a place to recharge, refill, etc. I have to carry all my meds for all the trip with me but don't want to take them everywhere so will be leaving there I suppose. Will also have to carry the 'just in case' and 'sometimes needed' meds as I may need them at some point so I need to be prepared.

Some of trip is going to be scheduled, like time in Berlin. I also am waiting to see other conferences I need to attend, as there will be more but I haven't the information on where/when yet.

I want to attend the Derby, Queen's Jubilee, Glastonbury festival, etc. I think i want to attend tomitilla and running of the bulls, too.

I have started a little notebook of lists of things- discount airlines, some interesting hostels, little known places, money saving tips, etc. I know I need to start to plan more details soon to get beds and the sooner you book trains and some airfare the better pricing and I have been paying attention to all of this. I hope to find some amazing deals and those would also dictate where I will be going when (in between the scheduled venues).

There's a wonderful book called Tales of a Female Nomad by someone who used Servas.

All that said, the only place so far I have ever felt at all unsafe in Europe was in Pigalle in Paris, just below Sacre Coeur where all the thrift-type and souvenir places are. There seemed to be gypsies there trying to create commotion and distract people. I didn't feel I was in danger personally but did feel my wallet would be missing if I wasn't so aware and a little more on alert than usual, and making sure to hold purse strap crossbody with arm covering the opening/zipper.

I felt the same way at Gare du Nord. Didn't feel unsafe, just that I was going to get pickpocketed while the packs of gypsies surrounded us as we exited the station on our way to get a cab to the 5th eme. We said "no" several times and eventually, they lost interest in me and my friend and found new people to hound.

I have heard stories about pickpockets in all major European cities such as Istanbul, Madrid, Rome, Paris, Barcelona, etc. I have visited all of them. I never felt unsafe, was just very aware of my surroundings and ensuring that I had my wallet secured the entire time. The same thing with visiting large cities in the US. There is always going to be shady parts of any city, it is just exercising the correct level of judgment and awareness.

Not sure how you are going to get your protective bubble through the airplane door. Stop worrying. Europe is just as safe if not safer than any city in the US. Your Angst will end up crushing your travels. Life is yours to live and without risk its quite frankly not really worth living.

No need for superior attitudes and snide comments.

Actually, behind the snark is some very good advice.

Not letting fear (especially unreasonable fear) impede ones ability to do what one wishes is very important. OP has some dreams, but it seems that some of those dreams may be in jeopardy if she gives in to some of the fears she seems to have.

Based on the possible things she now listed, we could sit here and give her all sorts of warnings. But to do so may result in her changing her plans and not living her dreams, and later possibly having regrets.

I actually think that MrMan was showing concern for the OP by trying to give her a bit of a shake, perhaps based on her most recent posts. He did give her information as well about the relative risk of travelling to 'Europe' vs living in the US.

OP, I truly hope that you do what you want to do, and that you don't allow minute risk result in you changing or cancelling your plans.

I want to attend the Derby, Queen's Jubilee, Glastonbury festival, etc.

no Glastonbury in 2012

No need for superior attitudes and snide comments.

Not sure where your getting the superior attitude vibe from me. Snide maybe, but if you keep codling the OP, and scaring her, you basically are crushing her dream. She needs some tough love and a push out the door, not hand holding at this moment. It's time to be a coach to say stop worring, get over it and do it, and not a mother saying here is list of bad things and places that can happen to you. You are hand holding her back to her living room couch in my opinion and encouraging her with love to do nothing. And think about some the best memories /meals you have had in your travels, were they in the so called safe tourist traps or that restaurant or bar down the "dark alley" that you discovered and had one of the best meals or met some of the best people that you can reflect on later in life.

Ohhh please!!!

You have GOT to be kidding me!?!

You know NOTHING about me, and if you did you would probably envy the way I see life and if you have read anything about the whys and the hows of this trip you would as well.

Does someone who decides to quit their job, leave everything, and just take off to spend a several months traipsing through Eurpoe on her own while she is still able to sound like someone living in a protective bubble to you?

One who works internationally to raise awareness to a serious disease- singlehandely?

Does thats sound scared to you? Fearful? I have been on my own since I was a young teen and seen and lived through a lot in the city, in the country- in other countries.

The only thing that truly scares me is this serious autoimmune disease that has been killing all my friends I have met through my nonprofit work internationally.

Being smart and gathering information is only prudent, not living in a bubble!


Not sure how you are going to get your protective bubble through the airplane door. Stop worrying. Europe is just as safe if not safer than any city in the US. Your Angst will end up crushing your travels. Life is yours to live and without risk its quite frankly not really worth living.

Maybe YOU need some tough love and a push out the door of a moving train..... I think you need that more than I need a push out my door. Please stop judging me, I just dont get where in my posting or asking a question has given you the idea I am so "vewy afwaid" or not going to do part of my trip or miss out on anything?

Scaring me? Oh come ON be for REAL!! Some may see me as "sick or ill" but in no way am I fragile or easily frightened. Aside from my background I am a Registered Nurse in the busiest ER in Atlanta area, and used to work in both a prison and in a state mental hospital. I can deal with crazies and am have developed a good sense of people and danger.

Nothing that is posted here has neither scared me nor made me think any different of my plans. If someone says not to go somewhere, one of two things (maybe both)- 1. will intrigue me to go and see for myself what all the fuss is about, 2. just make me be a little more cautious when in that place, more aware of my surroundings and on point, alert. Kind of like driving defensively and driving using all your mirrors- something you just do to be a little more safe.

I was raised by a Marine, I am no sissy by any means and resent you thinking I am!!

PS I don't have a livingroom couch, nor cable TV as I never have time to sit around with the life that lead. That's a sad waste of time when you can be living and enjoying my life every day. Which, this trip is just going to be an extension of.

Not sure where your getting the superior attitude
vibe from me. Snide maybe, but if you keep codling the OP, and scaring her, you basically are crushing her dream. She needs some tough love and a push out the door, not hand holding at this moment. It's time to be a coach to say stop worring, get over it and do it, and not a mother saying here is list of bad things and places that can happen to you. You are hand holding her back to her living room couch in my opinion and encouraging her with love to do nothing. And think about some the best memories /meals you have had in your travels, were they in the so called safe tourist traps or that restaurant or bar down the "dark alley" that you discovered and had one of the best meals or met some of the best people that you can reflect on later in life.

Tizette- I am going to look for that book. Also just got the one Eat, Pray, Love book.... I think i am going to journal this trip and maybe do a lot of writing about it!

Pinkcat- thanks, I am bummed!! Are there other festivals worth seeing and experiencing! Anything different and extraordinary experiences, not just music! Thinking Running of bulls, Oktoberfest, tomitina (?Spelling), and the like!

Isnt there something called like "fashion" in Germany that's a wild celebration? I know thats not how its spelled but it sounds like that sort of??

Isnt there something called like "fashion" in Germany that's a wild celebration? I know thats not how its spelled but it sounds like that sort of??You're talking about Fasching, the pre-Lenten Carnival. You'll be in Germany after Easter.

You're talking about Fasching, the pre-Lenten Carnival. You'll be in Germany after Easter.

And only in certain parts of Germany.

I would not recommend Oktoberfest in Munich either; there are many festivals at that time of year in other towns in the south which are more indicative of the local culture and less filled with tourists from other countries. The Germany forum has many suggestions which may give you a better experience.

kukukajoo, please understand that nobody here knows you in person; we all present one image of ourselves online which may differ from how we present ourselves in person. The title of this thread may lead some readers to fashion an image of you, especially if they continue reading. I'm sorry if that image they picture is different than the one you wish to present, but we all suffer from that online.

Once you have some ideas of places or things you wish to consider, many people are willing to help you to plan, or to give you advice. The vast majority of people on FT are actually kind and considerate, and do want to help. There is also the added bonus here of many 'locals' who can share insight not always found on other travel sites. And often, we can help to break through some of the (sometimes offensive, sometimes bizarre) stereotypes as well.

Ohhh please!!!

You have GOT to be kidding me!?!

You know NOTHING about me....<snip>

To be fair, you are painting a bit of a picture.

Here is the thread about autumn festivals in Germany, if you wish to take the advice of several locals posting. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/germany/1090109-cannstatter-volksfest-wasen-2010-a.html

Wallet snatched from closed handbag in Barcelona subway after visiting the barrio quarter. Had been tailed into and from the subway and realized it was gone within 30 seconds after the "bump". Alas, too late. The hotel concierge listened to my sob story and recommended a local place for dinner, where I went with a girlfriend. After dinner, the waiters surrounded us when we left for hugs and a photo. I felt a little better until I realized that the blackberry I had used during dinner to contact my bank and put into my purse was now also missing. And to think I left a tip... Two hits in one day were enough. Adios Barcelona...

Heh. I like how the men advised you to avoid Istanbul.

They said Praga area in Istanbul is iffy, not the entire city....

To be fair, you are painting a bit of a picture.

Can you show me exactly where in any of my posts I have given this impression on any of my posts, because I have read back and I am not understanding where anyone is getting the impression that I am too scared to leave my couch!

They said Praga area in Istanbul is iffy, not the entire city....

What is the Praga area in Istanbul? 'Praga' to me is the city in Czech, or a neighbourhood in Warsaw. I've been to Turkey, so would appreciate clarification. What would you be doing in Praga?

Thanks.

Can you show me exactly where in any of my posts I have given this impression on any of my posts, because I have read back and I am not understanding where anyone is getting the impression that I am too scared to leave my couch! To me the thread title and the continued reference to 'Europe' as one vague entity reflects something different than if the question had been asked in a different fashion.

After dinner, the waiters surrounded us when we left for hugs and a photo. In many cultures, touching a stranger in such an intimate fashion simply isn't done. That may have been a clue for you that a stranger offering up hugs wasn't quite right. Certainly that would have been the case in Germany, and in many countries the more intimate farewell may have included a double air kiss (or even a triple), not a hug. If someone I didn't know offered me a hug in many countries, I would be suspicious.

I said upthread that Americans are known for being very friendly, and unfortunately there are people who prey on that friendliness. Knowing the cultural norms of the places one is visiting is helpful as it can help one to become suspicious of behaviour that isn't quite right.

THAT HUGS POST ISN'T MINE DARLING.... Please check who you are quoting. I am not exactly a huggy, kissy person- even with close friends or family.... I don't even like to touch strangers- no handshake, nothing (the RN in me thinking germs as well as too intimate!)!!

I am from New England... New Hampshire to be exact- whose residents are not exactly known for being warm and fuzzy.... and are generally speaking known to be very standoffish to people we don't know and not very trusting until we do get to know someone. Getting to know someone can take many years by New England standards, lol!!

I am not using Europe as a vague reference at all. It clearly defines a diverse continent with many different areas (some safe, others not so safe), ALL very different from the US in so many varied ways... Of which I intend to visit as many as possible in a 5 month period next year.....

As far as the Praga/Istanbul I can't check the information at the moment, very well may have misquoted or mis typed and haven't had a chance to research anything in that part of Europe, trip is a ways away still. I only took note of what was said for future reference.

Sooo... asking where people have felt unsafe on a continent implies I am scared or ignorant? Is that what you are saying?

My use of Europe to ask a question is much less general than your complete generalization of all Americans being huggy and kissy and ignorant of local European customs or boundaries.

Anyone who knows anything about nursing would know that my experience in a jail and psych hospital that I have referenced above would give me a very good understanding of personal boundaries.....

I get how diverse Europe is and honestly don't see it as that large of an area really, MUCH smaler than N America and the second smallest continent if I remember my geography right... Many countries are much smaller than many of our states.....

Exactly how should I have fashioned the question?

What is the Praga area in Istanbul? 'Praga' to me is the city in Czech, or a neighbourhood in Warsaw. I've been to Turkey, so would appreciate clarification. What would you be doing in Praga?

Thanks.

To me the thread title and the continued reference to 'Europe' as one vague entity reflects something different than if the question had been asked in a different fashion.

In many cultures, touching a stranger in such an intimate fashion simply isn't done. That may have been a clue for you that a stranger offering up hugs wasn't quite right. Certainly that would have been the case in Germany, and in many countries the more intimate farewell may have included a double air kiss (or even a triple), not a hug. If someone I didn't know offered me a hug in many countries, I would be suspicious.

I said upthread that Americans are known for being very friendly, and unfortunately there are people who prey on that friendliness. Knowing the cultural norms of the places one is visiting is helpful as it can help one to become suspicious of behaviour that isn't quite right.

I never said that you were the one who was hugged; I used it as an example. Nor did I say that all Americans are 'huggy, kissy and ignorant'. Your responses are however apparently presenting an image to several readers.

My advice remains the same. I will list it for you.

Safety often means blending in and not making yourself an easy target. How do you blend in while still immersing yourself?

- Avoid drawing attention to yourself. This refers to dress, physical behaviour, volume of voice, etc
- Appear confident. Even if you take a wrong turn confidentally backtrack.
- Know something about the local area and culture. There are many variables even within a country, so take some time to read up on local habits and customs to avoid insulting or offending someone unintentionally, or drawing attention to yourself
- Know the basics of greeting and thanking people in local language
- Don't expect better treatment because you are a tourist
- Trust your instincts
- Put away stereotypes. Avoid reading guidebooks which don't have local contributions
- Put away any attitude you may have. If things go wrong, approach it as a 'we are all in this together' and don't tell everyone how this would not have happened in your country, or how it would have been resolved in a better fashion
- If you find yourself losing your cool, step away and calm down. Screaming in a metro station because you can't figure out the ticket machine will make you a target
- Be open to learning and trying new things, and don't constantly compare things to your norms as 'better' or 'worse'. Different is often just 'different'

The above is advice I would give to anyone travelling to an unfamiliar destination, male or female.

Again, it is virtually impossible to give specifics about 'Europe'. Once you have a list of places you are visiting, more specific advice may be possible. Until then, I think that it is quite pointless for me to offer advice about somewhere thousands of kilometres away physcially and light years away culturally from somewhere you may be visiting.

I get how diverse Europe is and honestly don't see it as that large of an area really, MUCH smaler than N America and the second smallest continent if I remember my geography right... Many countries are much smaller than many of our states..... And here I think we have a large part of the misunderstanding.

Europe may be smaller geograpically than North America, but is not smaller in terms of population, and has a much greater diversity in terms of culture and history and language.

Try going to Scotland and calling people there 'English'. One of the favourite pasttimes when Germans get together is to compare the many words to describe one particular object in the German language. There are customs and habits which vary from region to region within one single country in Europe, let alone across national borders.

From Dublin to Vladivostok is over 8,500 km. There are more than 50 countries spanning 11 time zones in 'Europe' which don't share a common history, culture, or language. The diversity across those 50+ countries is more diverse than across the 50 states of the US. The land mass may be greater in North America, but there are vast expanses of Canada with virtually no population.

No, actually I am completely aware of both size and population.... as I have stated in above posts..... please re read for better understanding if you must. And you did insinuate that I did type the hugs statement by the way you quoted....

Did you not say this generalization about Americans.. twice???


I said upthread that Americans are known for being very friendly, and unfortunately there are people who prey on that friendliness.

Some Americans are aware, you know? And not so very friendly.......

Again, I am not asking for generalizations about Europe at all..... I asked for specific PLACES IN EUROPE where others have felt unsafe.... exactly like the title says...... I have got some great responses as well as some of the attitude..... Not necessary......


And here I think we have a large part of the misunderstanding.

Europe may be smaller geograpically than North America, but is not smaller in terms of population, and has a much greater diversity in terms of culture and history and language.

Try going to Scotland and calling people there 'English'. One of the favourite pasttimes when Germans get together is to compare the many words to describe one particular object in the German language. There are customs and habits which vary from region to region within one single country in Europe, let alone across national borders.

From Dublin to Vladivostok is over 8,500 km. There are more than 50 countries spanning 11 time zones in 'Europe' which don't share a common history, culture, or language. The diversity across those 50+ countries is more diverse than across the 50 states of the US. The land mass may be greater in North America, but there are vast expanses of Canada with virtually no population.

I insinuated nothing by quoting two posters in the same thread.

You yourself admitted that you made yourself a target in a popular tourist destination by engaging. I have been to many popular tourist destinations in France, and am rarely approached as a target. If I am (and I cannot recall the last time I was) I simply don't engage at all.

Those who appear more obviously to be tourists, and to be tourists from a country known to be generally friendly and open are more likely to be targetted because they are easier prey.

But you are correct - not all Americans are friendly, and nowhere did I state that was the case (nor did I say that I believed that to be the case) My personal feeling don't matter; what does matter is the mindset of the petty thief who is going to seek out the easiest target, and that is often the unaware tourist who is willing to engage.

I don't worry when in Europe, but I had the scare of my life in Omaha, Nebraska. Yes, Omaha.

Downtown in full daylight on a work day a guy pushed me very hard up against the front of a building and unzipped his pants.

I was rescued by a private security guard who was walking along the sidewalk.

I had plenty of bruises and rattled nerves after that.

Omaha....of all places!

You didn't specify the quote was from a different poster... which made it appear to be mine..... I would appreciate if you edited your post to show that it wasn't my quote if that wasn't your intention....

I didnt "engage" anyone in Paris any more than a poor bank teller engages a robber who decides to pick their window to pass the note and show the gun, lol... I said "no" and they didn't like it...

Why can't you just say sorry and be done with it? Do you really have to keep on trying to argue and justify and backtrack your statements?

I am done with this, as I am looking for information, not an argument nor to be picked apart personally or any other way.....

So, please stop, I've had enough.... Maybe you are quite superior since nobody has ever engaged you. I don't really know nor do I even care.......




I insinuated nothing by quoting two posters in the same thread.

You yourself admitted that you made yourself a target in a popular tourist destination by engaging. I have been to many popular tourist destinations in France, and am rarely approached as a target. If I am (and I cannot recall the last time I was) I simply don't engage at all.

Those who appear more obviously to be tourists, and to be tourists from a country known to be generally friendly and open are more likely to be targetted because they are easier prey.

But you are correct - not all Americans are friendly, and nowhere did I state that was the case (nor did I say that I believed that to be the case) My personal feeling don't matter; what does matter is the mindset of the petty thief who is going to seek out the easiest target, and that is often the unaware tourist who is willing to engage.

I don't worry when in Europe, but I had the scare of my life in Omaha, Nebraska. Yes, Omaha.

Downtown in full daylight on a work day a guy pushed me very hard up against the front of a building and unzipped his pants.

I was rescued by a private security guard who was walking along the sidewalk.

I had plenty of bruises and rattled nerves after that.

Omaha....of all places!

OMG that is so scary!! I am grateful there was someone there to help you! We see the after effects of this very frequently (at least daily) in the Emergency Room sadly enough.....

Nebraska.... Middle America..... you would think safe? Goes to show it can be anywhere, any circumstance.... and i am sure you didn't "engage" this monster or make yourself a "target" in any case!!

Glad you are okay and not a statistic

I have nothing to be sorry for in this thread. I consider trying to respond in your version of sign language 'engaging', and I am trying to tell you why (even if you don't consider that engaging) isn't always prudent.

Frankly, I have given you a lot of advice on this thread despite your responses, and that is more than most of the responses, although people have tried. The advice I have given you holds true for almost any country on almost any continent.

Nor am I arguing, but rather trying to explain to you why people are unable to give you exactly what you are seeking. A few of us listed some specific neighbourhoods, but that really isn't very helpful.

Again, once you have specific destinations in mind (even names of countries), I am quite certain that the many helpful people here will be willing to give you more specific advice. Unfortunately, you are not getting the answers you seem to be seeking at this point, because you haven't really given us specifics yet.

Goes to show it can be anywhere, any circumstance.... And this is exactly the point that so many here have tried to make to you. I'm glad that oldpenny16 finally helped you to understand.

Again, I am not asking for generalizations about Europe at all..... I asked for specific PLACES IN EUROPE where others have felt unsafe....

I think the challenge in your request is that for any "place" (be in a country, city, neighborhood, block or specific location), you can find people who will say they've been there & felt perfectly safe and others who will tell you that they were also there & felt as if they were in danger. It's a tough question because it's both broad and subjective.

For example, I'm a single white female. I've lived in my Chicago neighborhood (urban, middle class, mixed ethnicity) for 19 years. During that time, I've never been a victim of any type of crime in my neighborhood, unless you count the jerk who backed into my car in a parking lot last year, then drove off.

I wouldn't live here if I didn't feel safe. However, in recent months there's been a rash of muggings and robberies within a few blocks of my house. Ask any of the people who were victims & I'm sure they'd tell you that they now feel unsafe in my neighborhood. I, however, continue to feel safe. So whose opinion is more credible? The one who's lived in the neighborhood for almost 2 decades and never been a crime victim, or the one who recently was? I suspect you can't decide whether which of us is more credible, because you don't know either of us personally.

My mom, on the other hand, lives in a middle-class rural area, in a gated, age-restricted community. She often leaves her doors unlocked and ground floor windows open. Her house backs up onto a woods. She's lived there for >10 years and has never been a crime victim. I, however, don't feel safe when I'm in her home alone overnight. Why? Because I live in a high-rise with a doorman. I'm used to what I'm used to, and I'm not used to sleeping in a home where someone could easily break in. But does that make her home any less safe than my home? Statistically no, but I can't change how I feel.

So, please stop, I've had enough.... Maybe you are quite superior since nobody has ever engaged you. I don't really know nor do I even care.......

In one more attempt to be helpful, and to try and explain, I don't believe that I have not been approached because I am 'superior'. I know that I am not approached because I don't appear to be an easy target. I don't stand out as a tourist, I walk briskly and with confidence, I am not distracted by women calling out 'Speak English?!' or pushing their 'baby' towards me.

Again, practicing those steps will minimize the number of times one is approached by those looking for prey. If you give the outward appearance of not being an easy target, chances are they will move on to someone who does appear to be an easier target.

So whose opinion is more credible? The one who's lived in the neighborhood for almost 2 decades and never been a crime victim, or the one who recently was?

There ISN'T a right or wrong here.... Its all very subjective....

Please realize I didn't ask where "I" would feel unsafe, as natually there are too many variables to calculate that, even in places I have been before...

I asked where others (meaning "you") felt unsafe....Your experience, your situation, your gut feeling, your opinion.....

There ISN'T a right or wrong here.... Its all very subjective....

Please realize I didn't ask where "I" would feel unsafe, as natually there are too many variables to calculate that, even in places I have been before...

I asked where others (meaning "you") felt unsafe....Your experience, your situation, your gut feeling, your opinion.....

And you keep re-stating your utterly pointless question. What on earth are you going to do with the information you are given? The odds of anyone giving you any information that you can meaningfully use are a million to one...

Do yourself (and everyone) a favour - make a sample itinerary that appeals to you and then ask for input on it. If you can't grasp this then perhaps you aren't ready for travel.

And you keep re-stating your utterly pointless question. What on earth are you going to do with the information you are given? The odds of anyone giving you any information that you can meaningfully use are a million to one...

Do yourself (and everyone) a favour - make a sample itinerary that appeals to you and then ask for input on it. If you can't grasp this then perhaps you aren't ready for travel.


Gosh I feel so bad.... Was just curious about others experiences...

Sorry......

Its no more pointless than asking what a favorite meal to eat is...

Or their favorite country, or restaurant, or color, etc.......

Just curious is all... is there anything wrong with that?

I just thought the stories people would tell would be interesting, I really didn't have an agenda.....

As stated I don't have an itinerary, and this has nothing really to do with my trip.... When i am ready and have more information on my trip I will post more. As stated before, many factors may limit or prevent my trip.

Maybe I am not ready for travel...

Again, So Sorry..... :confused: :(

kukukajoo, i think you are making a strong case that you are not ready to travel. Being 'just curious' is OK but you are taking a lot of folks time.

My point in posting my attempted mugging in Omaha was that 'things' can happen anywhere at any time. I raised a bloody fuss and was in full self defense mode when the private security guard came along. I would have survived in any case.

There is no safe haven any more if there ever was.

I am required to travel or my next port of call will be 'unemployed'. I do the best I can and hope for the best.

kukukajoo, i think you are making a strong case that you are not ready to travel. Being 'just curious' is OK but you are taking a lot of folks time.

My point in posting my attempted mugging in Omaha was that 'things' can happen anywhere at any time.

There is no safe haven any more if there ever was.


I agree with you that anything can happen anywhere, anytime. As I said I have seen an awful lot being a nurse.

You just never know about life or what will happen each day. (which was the point of wanting this trip).

I sure didn't expect to be hit with a deadly disease, that's for sure- was a bit like a lightning strike... And also the reason for this trip i hope to be taking while still able (and nothing to do with this question).

Maybe I will buy a sofa and TV instead, because I totally give up....

Nevermind that I have already been to Europe twice totally on my own, just not on such a large scale and long trip (longest was a month). Nevermind that I have been to nearly every state and every Canadian Provence and territory....

I guess I didn't realize being curious about others experiences would disqualify me from any travel?

There are a lot more wasteful threads on this board (just check Omni for starters).

I happen to be genuinely interested in others travels and experiences. Its one reason I am on here and I read so much.

I am truly hurt and disenheartened by the response I have received on here.... Its really truly very sad to me.....

A good chance my dream trip won't happen, and now you want to make me feel like a fool and should stay home....Again, this question had nothing to do with trip, rather was just making small talk... an attempt at conversation so to speak?

Some of you who did not respect Kukukajoo's question could have passed on it but instead wrote lengthy, condescending responses. Now somebody says she's been wasting our time. I don't think so, but if I did I would just stop following the thread.

Actually, behind the snark is some very good advice.



Actually, behind the snark I found a lot of psyco-babble.

The OP asked for specific advice on locations and experiences. You answered in another way-fine, you made your point. Enough with the repetitive posts that are off-topic.

I look forward to posts which address the OP's valid question.

I wanted this trip because I have a progressive autoimmune disease that will eventually severely disable me and most likely take my life in the next few years. It hasn't responded well to treatment and have no options at this time. Had a bad flare very recently that made me realize soon I won't be able to work or travel.

I just want to live while I still can....

The question about Europe was meant to be small talk and I had posted while I was very very sick. Was meant as entertainment of sorts and enlightenment. A sort of conversation I suppose. I got what I asked for, and much more.

It had nothing to do with said trip I am hoping to be well enough to take. I have posted about it on other threads, and am in no way ready to gather any information on it or ask specific questions other than those already asked elsewhere.

Sorry if I failed some protocol or wasn't "specific" enough but others seem to understand and have responded without attack and with interesting stories, which i thought yours was as well.

I never was in disagreement with anyone.

I wanted this trip because I have a progressive autoimmune disease that will eventually severely disable me and most likely take my life in the next few years. It hasn't responded well to treatment and have no options at this time. Had a bad flare very recently that made me realize soon I won't be able to work or travel.

I just want to live while I still can....

The question about Europe was meant to be small talk and I had posted while I was very very sick. Was meant as entertainment of sorts and enlightenment. A sort of conversation I suppose. I got what I asked for, and much more.

It had nothing to do with said trip I am hoping to be well enough to take. I have posted about it on other threads, and am in no way ready to gather any information on it or ask specific questions other than those already asked elsewhere.

Sorry if I failed some protocol or wasn't "specific" enough but others seem to understand and have responded without attack and with interesting stories, which i thought yours was as well.

I never was in disagreement with anyone.


My gosh. One thread in which the central point seems to have been lost. I hadn't planned to post on this thread, but the above point needs to be acknowledged.

My sympathy to you, much, much sympathy, and I am sure most of FT would rally around you too.

Hope--very, very much--that the flare subsides. And if it does:

You go, girl. You go out there, to Europe or wherever your heart desires, and you have a good time. And if you should happen to get pickpocketed or whatever, I hope another FTer is around to kick the *@#&! out of the pickpocketers for you.

^

Good luck with your trip - I hope you have a great time.

I have travelled a lot in Europe (and elsewhere) and lived in Europe (London and then Paris) for several years. With one exception, there have only been a couple of isolated instances where I felt unsafe.

1) Incident 1: In Istanbul, I had a cabdriver effectively "shake me down", through a scam, for money on an isolated stretch of road during a torrential downpour. I felt a bit trapped because of the location and the weather. This was the only problem I had in Istanbul (or Turkey) during multiple trips for business. There are a fair number of dodgy cabdrivers in Istanbul - not dangerous, just somewhat inclined to scam you. In retrospect, I should have paid more attention in the cab and when I was paying. I was a bit distracted and came across as a bit confused. I'm now very careful when paying cabdrivers (everywhere, not just Istanbul) to count out the money into their hands so they can't try to claim that I've underpaid them. And I pay attention to where I am and where the cab is, and come across as confident.

2) Incident 2: I was in a restaurant near St Petersburg, Russia where a couple of gangsters pulled out guns. They didn't point them at anyone. They just put them on the table next to a huge pile of American cash. I must admit, Russia is one place I generally wouldn't feel comfortable travelling to alone. I base this on my own experience and the stories of a couple of my colleagues, who travelled to Russia for work and lived in Russia for short periods of time. And they recommended against travelling there alone.

3) Incident 3: When I was in Tbilisi, Georgia, for work, our hosts advised us not to walk on the street alone after dark.

Interestingly, though, the place where I felt insecure with a fair degree of frequency was London, where I lived for a year in 2001-02. Post 9-11, when they pulled a lot of police off regular duty to focus on terrorism, the mugging rate started to jump. While I felt pretty comfortable in the West End when I lived there, I felt less comfortable in a couple of the other places I lived (like Clapham North), especially in the evenings. There was one day where there was a sign posted outside my grocery store asking if anyone had seen someone being kidnapped the previous afternoon - and a sign across the street asking for witnesses to a homicide the day before that. And I didn't like being on the subway outside the city center with drunken football crowds. And more recently this summer I was in London during the riots.

Does that translate into advising you not to go to London, though? No. But I tell this story to illustrate the point that danger isn't necessarily where you expect it to be. And while the London that tourists are likely to experience is pretty safe, it can get riskier around the fringes (or late at night) - and you should always watch out for your wallet.

The only place I'd be likely to advise you against visiting as a solo traveller would be Russia.

I was kidding a bit about the cute Turkish guys of Istanbul but since the thread has turned a little heavy, let me say this -- if I had a serious illness and was thinking of travel to Europe, I would not be very concerned about physical safety (other than watching out for the usual pickpocket and tourist scams already mentioned) because violent crime really, truly, seriously just isn't that likely. I would be more concerned about having sufficient funds and running out of money. Europe in general is a rather expensive destination for me. But it sounds like you already have those concerns well in hand since you are getting leads for couch surfing, friends to stay with, SERVAS, etc.

I've many times felt physically unsafe in Middle America, and I think the crime rate in your average flyover American city must be much worse than your average city in western Europe. But maybe it's just because, being an American, I know all of the problems with drugs, gangs, etc. I know our dirty laundry, and I don't know Europe's dirty laundry, and ignorance in this case is peace of mind as well as bliss.


To be honest, it's my humble opinion that 95% of the time, maybe more, as long as you don't use drugs or associate with anyone you know to use drugs, you will be safe from violent crime. Yes, there will always be innocent victims, but I think that's the one HUGE thing you can do to stay safe -- avoid drug users/abusers. And probably you're already doing it, so it isn't even a big hassle.

Actually, behind the snark I found a lot of psyco-babble.

The OP asked for specific advice on locations and experiences. You answered in another way-fine, you made your point. Enough with the repetitive posts that are off-topic.

I look forward to posts which address the OP's valid question.
I'm afraid I won't be doing that. The OP (nor you) just don't seem to get that expecting us to detail a lifetime's worth of experiences of feeling safe/unsafe (at some point the request in the thread changed) when we have no idea how relevant our information (that takes our free time to write up) is to her. She didn't acknowledge the post in which I did provide some information for her, she gave no indication of whether that was what she wanted or whether the places I listed were on her 'I could go there' list or not.

Sorry, the OP came across as pretty demanding, and with not a lot of realisation of the task she has set for us - particularly those of us who live here all the time. When asked to do the reverse, she came up with one place!

I'm not sure when she is going to twig, but the information she cites as being 'good information' indicates it is unsafe to go to both Windsor/Eton and Hampton Court Palace. I do wonder how the Queen copes, living in unsafe parts of London :eek:

So I'm happy to help the OP, when she is able to help me to help her. But her request did come across as demanding, and her failure to even acknowledge the half hour I've already spent brain dumping the very information she requested does deter me from assisting anymore, given it would probably take several hours to write down the information she has requested. And I know a large part of that time would be wasted, as the chances are vanishingly small she will actually go there (Fairfield housing scheme in Perth or the Tron pub, 12 years ago, following a not very friendly Hearts-Celtic match - does she really want to know my experiences there?!)

I'm sorry the thread hasn't turned out how she thought. However, perhaps she should really take on board what she is being told about the enormity of the task she has set up, instead of trying to dismiss what we are saying as not being what she wanted to hear?

You had edited your post to make it much more friendly and added to it after I had already wrote a response once. You chose to use that time, I didn't force you to write that nor edit it. And I did respond and acknowledge your post. I just don't care if its up to your snuff or not and not gushing with appreciation that you think you are deserving of. When I respond to threads I do it because I want to, not because I expect something out of it.

As I said a few times, I wasn't looking for information, was just curious.... I also find it surprising that would take you a half hour and so sorry if you feel it was waste of your time.

And no, I haven't responded to everyone on here that has taken time to add to this thread. I have been busy with my new grandchild who came early via emergency C section, which is where my priorities need to be.




I'm afraid I won't be doing that. The OP (nor you) just don't seem to get that expecting us to detail a lifetime's worth of experiences of feeling safe/unsafe (at some point the request in the thread changed) when we have no idea how relevant our information (that takes our free time to write up) is to her. She didn't acknowledge the post in which I did provide some information for her, she gave no indication of whether that was what she wanted or whether the places I listed were on her 'I could go there' list or not.

Sorry, the OP came across as pretty demanding, and with not a lot of realisation of the task she has set for us - particularly those of us who live here all the time. When asked to do the reverse, she came up with one place!

I'm not sure when she is going to twig, but the information she cites as being 'good information' indicates it is unsafe to go to both Windsor/Eton and Hampton Court Palace. I do wonder how the Queen copes, living in unsafe parts of London :eek:

So I'm happy to help the OP, when she is able to help me to help her. But her request did come across as demanding, and her failure to even acknowledge the half hour I've already spent brain dumping the very information she requested does deter me from assisting anymore, given it would probably take several hours to write down the information she has requested. And I know a large part of that time would be wasted, as the chances are vanishingly small she will actually go there (Fairfield housing scheme in Perth or the Tron pub, 12 years ago, following a not very friendly Hearts-Celtic match - does she really want to know my experiences there?!)

I'm sorry the thread hasn't turned out how she thought. However, perhaps she should really take on board what she is being told about the enormity of the task she has set up, instead of trying to dismiss what we are saying as not being what she wanted to hear?

As I said a few times, I wasn't looking for information, was just curious.... I also find it surprising that would take you a half hour and so sorry if you feel it was waste of your time.

I think that many of us took your first posts on this thread to be requesting information in regards to the trip that you mentioned, and the specific information you requested, and several of us did exactly as you mentioned and listed specific geographic locations or situations. They just happen to be places and situations you may not encounter on your trip.

I will be traveling around europe for 5 months next year and much of it alone.

Are there places as a woman alone that I should avoid and are there places that just gave you the unsafe feeling?

I meant more specific as in terms of location, not general safety tips. I am aware of how to be safe as a woman alone....

Places meaning geographic locations

I don't feel that I wasted my time; I truly tried to help you and gave you links and tried to ask you questions so that we could try and help you. You may not see it, but most people here are truly trying to help you and took the time to respond, but most just are unable to do so. I prefer to see the good side of people, and I know that many of the posters on this thread really are trying to be kind and helpful to you, even when you seemed to become frustrated with the responses (or the perceived lack thereof). I don't think that anyone wants you to have a trip that isn't enjoyable. I've read many posts from the three other 'Europeans' who posted on this thread over the years and I believe that they are all kind-hearted people. (And I put 'European' in quotes because they are all from across the sleeve :D)

On a side note, I do wonder how the fact that there was a sharps container in a bathroom makes one feel unsafe? (And that is just one more example of how one person's 'unsafe' doesn't equate to the same for someone else)

Did I miss something about the shaprs container? I wish more places had these. Logan Airport the other day was the first place I noticed one and was helpful as I have to inject blood thinners when flying and even though they are safe retractible syringes, it can be hard to dispose of properly and safely.





I think that many of us took your first posts on this thread to be requesting information in regards to the trip that you mentioned, and the specific information you requested, and several of us did exactly as you mentioned and listed specific geographic locations or situations. They just happen to be places and situations you may not encounter on your trip.





I don't feel that I wasted my time; I truly tried to help you and gave you links and tried to ask you questions so that we could try and help you. You may not see it, but most people here are truly trying to help you and took the time to respond, but most just are unable to do so. I prefer to see the good side of people, and I know that many of the posters on this thread really are trying to be kind and helpful to you, even when you seemed to become frustrated with the responses (or the perceived lack thereof). I don't think that anyone wants you to have a trip that isn't enjoyable. I've read many posts from the three other 'Europeans' who posted on this thread over the years and I believe that they are all kind-hearted people. (And I put 'European' in quotes because they are all from across the sleeve :D)

On a side note, I do wonder how the fact that there was a sharps container in a bathroom makes one feel unsafe? (And that is just one more example of how one person's 'unsafe' doesn't equate to the same for someone else)

Someone posted on page two as a time they felt unsafe. My local shopping mall in France has them in the stalls but often in the US they are hard to find. I see that as a positive not a negative but again it shows how this is too subjective a topic to apply one person's experiences to another.

made me laugh as I think the only place they would have to be to make me feel unsafe is in dark alleyways or something!

I also see it as a positive as safe disposal of any sharps is, well.. safer...

Is it a common thing to find disposal boxes for hypodermics in each and every toilet stall...anywhere? I know there is a public park near Bologna train station where users hang out so I guessed they put in all those disposal boxes to stop addicts littering the floor. Bologna station is actually very attractive,
well kept and bright, not unsafe feeling at all.

Is it a common thing to find disposal boxes for hypodermics in each and every toilet stall...anywhere? I know there is a public park near Bologna train station where users hang out so I guessed they put in all those disposal boxes to stop addicts littering the floor. Bologna station is actually very attractive,
well kept and bright, not unsafe feeling at all.

The disposal boxes turn up here and there - keeps us all safe from the many non-addicts who use disposable needles for various medical reasons.

What freaks me are:

needles/condoms on the floor/sidewalk
security guards in front of stores and in parking lots
neighborhoods with 2 or more AA/drug rehab centers
areas with more than 10 homeless carts per block
coils of razor wire
sloppy drunks
barren trashy streets with lots of graffitti and no foot traffic
too many people hanging on corners trying to scam me


And this is in the US when I make a wrong turn usually in a car, except when walking in San Francisco, LA, and parts of San Diego county.

Except for occasional Paris metros, the RER and gypsy kids I rarely if ever feel unsafe in Europe or even Mexico until recently. Classic errors have been wandering onto the streets of prostitutes in Frankfurt and Tijuana - don't retreat, just walk with purpose and look for signs of getting out of the neighborhood rather than in deeper. Homeless and working folk rarely bother anyone walking with apparent purpose.

Just be more aware of your surroundings than I sometimes am and enjoy your trip.

Felt unsafe in Europe? No, though I haven't been to the more exciting countries like Romania or anything-just UK, France, Italy, Poland, Germany, etc.

But I agree with the poster who said Euope doesn't have anything on us in terms of physical danger. :D We're AMERICAN, baby, violence is in our blood. :cool: The land of vigilante justice, the death penalty, and the laws protecting our right to bring guns into bars. Europe seems to have left excessive violence back with the Inquistion. Woo-hoo. Go USA!
Just don't look for me in Mexico anytime soon.

But seriously, if you're worried, you should read the Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker. When you know something's off, your gut will tell you. And it will also tell you what to do. Trust it. Follow it.

Headed to Mexico, Cozumel and Valladolid.

Is it a common thing to find disposal boxes for hypodermics in each and every toilet stall...anywhere? I know there is a public park near Bologna train station where users hang out so I guessed they put in all those disposal boxes to stop addicts littering the floor. Bologna station is actually very attractive,
well kept and bright, not unsafe feeling at all.Yes it is, in some cases (again, every country and region is different). I take that as a sign of some countries being more advanced than the US, and not assuming that sharps containers equates to drug addicts, but rather an awareness of people who actually need them.

I was in two of the largest European train stations this weekend and sharps containers were very common, not for drug addicts necessarily. My mind doesn't go there as first assumption when I see those, but rather an awareness of the fact that many people use them nowadays.

Have you discovered this thread where we are discussing scams around the world? If you read it, you will find a lot of situations that will lead to known consequences that you should avoid.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travelbuzz/1266789-looking-participants-tv-series-about-travel-scams.html

Have you discovered this thread where we are discussing scams around the world? If you read it, you will find a lot of situations that will lead to known consequences that you should avoid.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travelbuzz/1266789-looking-participants-tv-series-about-travel-scams.html

OP's sign language/sign something scam in Paris has been reported a few places in FT before.

I know that traveller children are often seen as the source of trouble and scams, but honestly I have several to thank over the years in Paris. At La Defense my exit ticket seems to sometimes not work, and as I stand there imagining how on earth I am going to leap over the barrier, when a small hand reaches out from the clear side with a ticket collected from the litter on the ground or the trash.

The euro and the thanks that I give those children is well worth it to avoid my having to climb over the barrier. Sometimes the people we assume are bad people may surprise us.

Last night I was walking in the dark in a city unfamiliar to me, where the language spoken is unknown to me. Frankly, the feeling of potential unsafeness came from the rain on cobblestones - OP, if you are unstable on your feet this can especially be a concern so do watch out for that.

My American friend who moved her family to Germany and who sends her children to school via bike/train/walking 1 hour each way alone also pointed out that in 'Europe' there is a greater walking culture and use of public transportation, so walking the streets at night may not be as dangerous, because you will find far more people doing the same thing as compared to many US cities at night.

The OP said that she'll be spending some time in the UK during her trip so I think that for a US citizen you should be warned that in many UK cities there is a very different drinking culture compared to the US which caused a bit of a shock for some of my US friends. It is not uncommon to see extremly drunk people in the streets especially on weekend nights in cities like Glasgow or even in London. It doesn't make it particularly unsafe but I think it's something you should be aware of.

Very aware of this....

What do they say...... If you can't beat em, join em?!?! :)

PS I don't think its a different culture other than benig a lady having to order a half pint at a time... I think they just can't hold their alcohol as well.... ;)

The OP said that she'll be spending some time in the UK during her trip so I think that for a US citizen you should be warned that in many UK cities there is a very different drinking culture compared to the US which caused a bit of a shock for some of my US friends. It is not uncommon to see extremly drunk people in the streets especially on weekend nights in cities like Glasgow or even in London. It doesn't make it particularly unsafe but I think it's something you should be aware of.

Very aware of this....

What do they say...... If you can't beat em, join em?!?! :)

PS I don't think its a different culture other than benig a lady having to order a half pint at a time... I think they just can't hold their alcohol as well.... ;)

I do notice a different culture between UK drinking and North American drinking (in various cities) NA more people tend to go out for dinner, sit down, have drinks at a table etc. In the UK would we almost always go out to a bar after dinner (not for dinner) stand up (i.e. not get a table or seat at the bar) and drink more than my friends here seem to drink.

As for ladies ordering half pints, they don't 'have' to - but I think pint glasses look rather silly on women! You will still see plenty of 'chavettes' with their pint glasses tho.

In terms of an earlier post on avoiding 'outer London' - that is such a strange comment, I had to mention it. 'Outer London' as an area is no more dangerous than 'Inner London' (and some may argue less so). London isn't one city centre, then outskirts, it is made up of lots of small 'towns' all joined together. There are some gorgeous parts of outer London, and indeed it is where many of those who work in inner London choose to live because there are some gorgeous, safe parts. I'm sure there are unsafe parts, but the advice to avoid 'outer London' is simply wonky advice.

Thanks to recent posters with their intersting, informative comments.

In terms of an earlier post on avoiding 'outer London' - that is such a strange comment, I had to mention it. 'Outer London' as an area is no more dangerous than 'Inner London' (and some may argue less so). London isn't one city centre, then outskirts, it is made up of lots of small 'towns' all joined together. There are some gorgeous parts of outer London, and indeed it is where many of those who work in inner London choose to live because there are some gorgeous, safe parts. I'm sure there are unsafe parts, but the advice to avoid 'outer London' is simply wonky advice.

And some of the wealthiest people live in London suburbs - like you I wondered what 'outer London' really meant. (I think that it was mentioned by the same people saying to avoid 'Praga in Istanbul'). That comment re 'outer London' is to me like the train station comments. It isn't useful without context.

And in case anyone missed it, OP plans to stay with friends, in hostels, and at B&Bs on a limited budget. That means using mostly public transportation and staying in neighbourhoods (ie living like the rest of us). If she does that, she can expect to see a lot of train stations, the metro/tube etc, and busses.

One other piece of advice which is somewhat timely is don't get yourself involved in someone else's business, or expect consequences if you do. I spent about 3 hours this afternoon trying to get home and trying unsuccesfully to avoid one of the big protests, first on a bus and then on foot. It was actually quite peaceful but very busy, with a heavy police presence.

On the bus however were several tourists not from Europe, and one group started to make comments about 'oh, I hope it turns into a riot!' and then the talk became frankly silly and inciteful. If you plan to counter-protest, or to voice your opinion without really understanding the issue or having experienced what the locals experience, you may find yourself in hot water. I hope those tourists made their way back to their hotel safely, but they really were behaving in a foolish fashion and I could see someone reacting to their behaviour. They may have been joking, but the jokes were tasteless and inappropriate in that setting.

I do notice a different culture between UK drinking and North American drinking (in various cities) NA more people tend to go out for dinner, sit down, have drinks at a table etc. In the UK would we almost always go out to a bar after dinner (not for dinner) stand up (i.e. not get a table or seat at the bar) and drink more than my friends here seem to drink.

Interesting. an American living in Milan and his Italian friends pointed out to me that Italians go out to enjoy a drink or two unlike Americans who drink to get drunk. I found it a quite accurate description. At least of many Americans (I am one) and some Italians.

(IMHO this thread is one of the strangest on FT in a long while. :)

Well, nobody has mentioned the people-eating dragons yet in Euroland. :p I'm curious to see what happens when this thread makes it to Talkmail.

Another difference though in drinking is that in some areas fewer people have cars so drinking and driving isn't as much as issue as drinking and getting home via foot or on public transport. (And/or drinking and driving laws are so severe that they are a big deterrent)

And here I think we have a large part of the misunderstanding.



From Dublin to Vladivostok is over 8,500 km. There are more than 50 countries spanning 11 time zones in 'Europe' which don't share a common history, culture, or language. The diversity across those 50+ countries is more diverse than across the 50 states of the US. The land mass may be greater in North America, but there are vast expanses of Canada with virtually no population.

Vladivostok is not (and never has been) part of Europe. Russian Europe ends at the Ural Mountains :rolleyes:

Interesting. an American living in Milan and his Italian friends pointed out to me that Italians go out to enjoy a drink or two unlike Americans who drink to get drunk. I found it a quite accurate description. At least of many Americans (I am one) and some Italians.

(IMHO this thread is one of the strangest on FT in a long while. :)

Absolutely, there is a huge difference in attitidue between mainland Europeans and the UK when it comes to drinking too (and what is drunk as well!) My Roman friends finds it hysterical how drunk some Brits, Americans and Canadians get when they drink 'as the Italians do' - meaning aperatifs, wine, neat spirits (like grappa) etc. Beer and alcopops do nothing to prepare you for heady wine and strong spirits!

Just another note, my mother just returned from Istanbul, so I asked her how safe she felt (petite, older woman) and she said she felt wonderfully safe, said the Turkish people were very polite and helpful, the vendors would ask if you were interested in the rugs, vases etc., and a simple 'no' meant they stopped asking immediately, no pushiness which she said was so refreshing compared to hawkers in other cities.

Vladivostok is not (and never has been) part of Europe. Russian Europe ends at the Ural Mountains :rolleyes:

You're absolutely correct and rereading that it doesn't convey what I was trying to say. I do recall being rather tired and fedup when I responded and was trying to be diplomatic. OP said that she didn't like sweeping generalisations about 'Americans' but didn't seem to understand why so many of us couldn't really respond to the original question the way it was posed.

I walked alone in the dark last night in another city unknown to me where I only know a small bit of the language and walked through a rather quiet, somewhat industrial area. I didn't feel unsafe; in fact, someone came running up to me and it was someone returning something I had left on the bus minutes before.