California - SF to Lake Tahoe/Reno early April

Hi,

We are thinking about flying into SFO and stay in SF, Reno and Yosemite around Easter 2012. Can we do all these without chain on tires? Would I80 closed due to snow storm around that time?

Thanks.

Hi,

We are thinking about flying into SFO and stay in SF, Reno and Yosemite around Easter 2012. Can we do all these without chain on tires? Would I80 closed due to snow storm around that time?

Thanks.

It's certainly possible that there will still be winter storms in April. I do not think it is likely that 80 will close, but it's not out of the question if a particularly powerful late season storm rolls through. I personally would probably risk it, but it's up to you. What's your backup plan if chains are required?

I guess if chains are required then we will have to change the itinerary. I'm thinking about going coastal - Big sur, if something really goes wrong.

There shouldn't be snow in SF or Sacramento at anytime of the year, but what about if you go a bit inland, such as closer to Yosemite (just to the low elevatioin area)?

Our aim of the trip is to explore SF (I visited there almost 20 yrs ago and Mr. Nacho has never been there) with 3 small kids. As far as I can recall you can use 3-4 days exploring the city. So all the national parks etc. are just 'extra', not that I don't want to see them but I think if we want to really see Yosemite, it will be a trip focus on that in summer.

I-80 closure is possible but not likely. More likely in the event of a storm would be that you must have either chains or a 4WD vehicle. Thus, if you were to rent a 4WD/AWD for the drive to Tahoe, you would be fine for most conditions.

AFAIK, the drive to Yosemite does not go as high as the drive to Tahoe, so you would be very unlikely to have snow on the ground in April.

I-80 closure is possible but not likely. More likely in the event of a storm would be that you must have either chains or a 4WD vehicle. Thus, if you were to rent a 4WD/AWD for the drive to Tahoe, you would be fine for most conditions.

AFAIK, the drive to Yosemite does not go as high as the drive to Tahoe, so you would be very unlikely to have snow on the ground in April.

Yosemite Valley is at about 4,000 feet. Hwy. 120 is the shortest route from the SF Bay Area, but it does go well above the valley and down again, so when there is snow on the ground or in the forecast, Hwy. 140 is often a safer bet. It runs along the Merced River and does not rise above the valley floor.

Snow in April at 4,000 feet happens from time to time, but not too often. Odds are you'll have nothing to worry about.

We had some late snow storms in April this year (and I think even a very rare one in May!) However that is unusual, normally you don't see much beyond March. I'd rate the chances at 10%. In the unlikely event, you can simply rent chains for your car from one of the many outlets on I-80. Or reserve a car and if necessary upgrade to an SUV if the storms look menacing. Remember, rental car rates often drop as the date approaches, so this could actually save you some coin. :)

We had some late snow storms in April this year (and I think even a very rare one in May!) However that is unusual, normally you don't see much beyond March. I'd rate the chances at 10%. In the unlikely event, you can simply rent chains for your car from one of the many outlets on I-80. Or reserve a car and if necessary upgrade to an SUV if the storms look menacing. Remember, rental car rates often drop as the date approaches, so this could actually save you some coin. :)

Most rental car agencies do not allow you to put chains on their cars that do not have snow tires. The suggestion about renting a 4WD with snow tires is a better idea. But driving can be difficult and very slow under conditions where chains are required.

Renting with 4wd/AWD is your best bet. Chains will never work with rentals and likely you won't be able to use them.

As for April storms, no one knows. Just know that if a storm rolls in, it could close everything down.

Keep in mind that typically the road closures go like this:

1. No restrictions
2. 4WD or Chains required
3. 4WD with chains required
4. Closed

#3 almost rarely occurs, usually they just go from 2-4.

I have never seen #3 in Tahoe, even in the worst blizzards. Either the road is open to 4wd and cars with chains or it is closed.

Obviously the conservative approach is to make 2 rental Rez (I do this all the time) - one for SUV and one for a cheaper car. And then cancel the one you don't need a couple of days before arrival.

Renting with 4wd/AWD is your best bet. Chains will never work with rentals and likely you won't be able to use them.

As for April storms, no one knows. Just know that if a storm rolls in, it could close everything down.

Keep in mind that typically the road closures go like this:

1. No restrictions
2. 4WD or Chains required
3. 4WD with chains required
4. Closed

#3 almost rarely occurs, usually they just go from 2-4.

I thought category 3 was just "chains required" without regard to whether the car was 4WD or not. I have seen this on some of the roads off of I80 towards Lake Tahoe, particularly on 267 which does have a small summit to cross, but very rarely.

It's also my understanding that the CHP has decided never to do #3 on the main roads (US50, I80) and go straight from #2 to #4.

I have never seen #3 in Tahoe, even in the worst blizzards. Either the road is open to 4wd and cars with chains or it is closed.

Obviously the conservative approach is to make 2 rental Rez (I do this all the time) - one for SUV and one for a cheaper car. And then cancel the one you don't need a couple of days before arrival.

That's my experience too -- I've never seen #3. I'll probably never buy a car that isn't AWD since it makes the mountain driving so much easier. Like you say, either you're fine with no chains at #2, or they close the road.

FWIW, I grew up in Wisconsin where you hardly ever see chains on cars. Three simple rules for driving in wintry conditions: i) wait for things to clear up if reasonably possible, ii) learn about "black ice" and iii) slow down! A lot.

You posted this in the SF category. It should be in the general California category. Anyway, chain requirements can include 4WD. This from the Yosemite NP Web site: "Any time chain controls are in effect, all vehicles must have chains in possession, including four-wheel drive and rental vehicles." Exact requirements could vary by location (e.g., is it a local sheriff department or California Highway Patrol or National Park Service with jurisdiction) and exact conditions. The NPS recommends (just advisory) having chains in your possession when visiting the park from November through March, but states there's no way to predict exactly when and if you'd be required.

Easter will be on April 8. No one at all can prdict whether you'll need chains. What route do you have in mind? I notice you don't mention Lake Tahoe, just Reno. I Tahoe is more scenic and it does have casinos. Since Tioga Pass will be closed, to get to Yosemite from Reno you'd have to take I-80 or Hwy. 50 to Hwy. 49, or Hwy. 99 and go south to one of the highways into the park. From South Lake Tahoe the trip is a bit shorter (50 is more subject to closure, or chain requirements, than is 80, but usually not for long). If it's just the Yosemite road that ends up problematic, you might be able to take the YARTS bus into the park from Merced (unless the storm is so big the road is closed).

While weather is something to think about, there are two other concerns:
-Will your rental car agreement prohibit the use of chains? Some do. If you hit an area where chains are required, and you don't have chains (or rent them on the spot, in some cases), you may have no choice but to turn around (or wait for conditions to improve). California Highway Patrol and California Department of Transportation Web sites should have advisories.
-Accommodations: while schools have vacations at various times, the week before Easter, and the holiday itself, could be busy times, and getting reservations, especially in Yosemite, should be done well in advance. Camp Curry tent cabins, the least expensive accommodations in the park, aren't for everyone if there's snow around, but some have heaters (you'll see that as a choice when you make reservations).

You could go from the Bay Area to Yosemite by train and bus (reserve through Amtrak) or just bus (through Greyhound and YARTS). Or you could go to Reno by train (scenic). Or South Lake Tahoe by train and bus. Doing both Reno and Yosemite by public transportation is tough.

You could go from the Bay Area to Yosemite by train and bus (reserve through Amtrak) or just bus (through Greyhound and YARTS). Or you could go to Reno by train (scenic). Or South Lake Tahoe by train and bus. Doing both Reno and Yosemite by public transportation is tough.

Tough, indeed -- I do not recommend it. Emeryville to Reno on Amtrak is a scheduled six hours. Emeryville to Yosemite Valley is about 5 1/2 hours. Each involves a change in Sacramento/Merced, respectively. This adds a lot of extra time to the journey, and not having a car once in Yosemite greatly reduces your flexibility.

Public transit is great when it makes sense, but it really doesn't make much sence in these situations.

Public transit is great when it makes sense, but it really doesn't make much sence in these situations.

+1

You posted this in the SF category. It should be in the general California category. Anyway, chain requirements can include 4WD. This from the Yosemite NP Web site: "Any time chain controls are in effect, all vehicles must have chains in possession, including four-wheel drive and rental vehicles." ...

Yes we have all seen the language, but have you ever actually driven through a blzzard and been required to put chains on your 4WD? I've been driving to Tahoe for the last 30 years in all conditions and never seen it. If the roads are that bad, CHP will close them.

Easter will be on April 8. No one at all can prdict whether you'll need chains.

Believe it or not, but people predict the weather every day :D My prediction: no chains required on April 8. But there's a10% chance that I will be wrong. Feel lucky today, punk? :p

. Emeryville to Reno on Amtrak is a scheduled six hours. ... [and] involves a change in Sacramento...

Wrong. Try looking at the schedule for the California Zephyr...which according the to the schedule set to start in Nov. departs Emeryville for Reno (and points east all the way to Chicago) at 9:10 am arriving in Reno at 4:06 pm. While the route actually takes roughly *7* hours, it's a single seat ride with NO change of trains. (...although one might want to grab Amtrak's connecting bus from San Francisco across the bridge to Emeryville...)

And while there is a *slight* chance of snow in April, there is essentially no chance that snow will close this rail line in April...since Union Pacific works to the utmost to keep it open as it's a main east-west route....and not apt to close w/o *several feet* of snow falling... (...happens in winter, not spring...) And frankly the scenery on the second half of this route is worth seeing without worrying about what the idiot in the car in front of you is doing. This is a great route to leave the driving to an engineer.

Wrong. Try looking at the schedule for the California Zephyr...which according the to the schedule set to start in Nov. departs Emeryville for Reno (and points east all the way to Chicago) at 9:10 am arriving in Reno at 4:06 pm. While the route actually takes roughly *7* hours, it's a single seat ride with NO change of trains. (...although one might want to grab Amtrak's connecting bus from San Francisco across the bridge to Emeryville...)

And while there is a *slight* chance of snow in April, there is essentially no chance that snow will close this rail line in April...since Union Pacific works to the utmost to keep it open as it's a main east-west route....and not apt to close w/o *several feet* of snow falling... (...happens in winter, not spring...) And frankly the scenery on the second half of this route is worth seeing without worrying about what the idiot in the car in front of you is doing. This is a great route to leave the driving to an engineer.

There is a change (to a bus) in Sacramento if one goes to Stateline (South Lake Tahoe). To Reno, one just stays on the train. We've done it.

Public transit is great when it makes sense, but it really doesn't make much sense in these situations.Especially when three small children are part of the traveling group........

I drive I-80 to Reno all the time. In April, the chances are slim that you will need chains. Most major closures are during the night time hours if there is a storm during that time period. I have an AWD vehicle and the only time I have not been able to transit the summit was during a blizzard when they closed the road, but that was in Dec.

I guess if chains are required then we will have to change the itinerary. I'm thinking about going coastal - Big sur, if something really goes wrong.

There shouldn't be snow in SF or Sacramento at anytime of the year, but what about if you go a bit inland, such as closer to Yosemite (just to the low elevatioin area)?

Our aim of the trip is to explore SF (I visited there almost 20 yrs ago and Mr. Nacho has never been there) with 3 small kids. As far as I can recall you can use 3-4 days exploring the city. So all the national parks etc. are just 'extra', not that I don't want to see them but I think if we want to really see Yosemite, it will be a trip focus on that in summer.

Given your goals, I wouldn't plan on going to the Yosemite area or Reno unless you want to be in the snow, as it will definitely still be ski season, although as stated the roads will likely be clear. If you do want to go skiing or up in the Sierra, rent a 4WD.

For parks, why not just stay on the coast? Carmel, Big Sur, Hearst Castle, etc.

Bob

We are planning to spend sometimes on the coast too. It's just that Yosemite is like a must see when you are in SFO area. We won't be planning on skiing since we are living in Scandinavia - and we are not so thrill to see snow either.

We would like to see some big trees (redwood?) and does anyone know if we can see them somewhere that doesn't require chain tyres?

Thanks again.

If what you want to see is coastal redwoods, then the easiest place is Muir woods just north of San Francisco. This is the place shown at the end of the recent movie "Rise of the Planet of the Apes." Generally speaking, since the coastal redwoods grow along the coast (surprise!), you will never need chains to go see them.

If you want to see Sequoias, they only grow in the mountains and you cannot rule out the possibility you will need chains.

Tough, indeed -- I do not recommend it. Emeryville to Reno on Amtrak is a scheduled six hours. Emeryville to Yosemite Valley is about 5 1/2 hours. Each involves a change in Sacramento/Merced, respectively. This adds a lot of extra time to the journey, and not having a car once in Yosemite greatly reduces your flexibility.

Public transit is great when it makes sense, but it really doesn't make much sence in these situations.

I totally agree. Amtrak between Emeryville and Reno may be the most unreliable Amtrak route in the country. We had a weekend totally ruined by Amtrak. On Friday, the train was 6 hours late and instead of arriving in Reno at 4 pm, we got in at 10 pm and missed nearly all of Friday night. On the return, the train was running 12 hours or more late, so we just rented a car and drove back.

This is actually not unusual. Late going east about half the time or more (2-6 hours is typical) and late going west is 90% of the time and typically 10-20 hours or more.