EL AL Matmid - Article in Maariv about the ELH

http://www.nrg.co.il/online/16/ART2/277/298.html?hp=16&cat=1901&loc=11

Maybe buying old aircrafts is not a very good idea...

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What a surprise...

I love the nick name "pigs sty" :)

And I love even more the qoute from LY saying the IFE system is one of the most advanced in the world... Yeh right.

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What a surprise...

I love the nick name "pigs sty" :)

And I love even more the qoute from LY saying the IFE system is one of the most advanced in the world... Yeh right.

Mr. I Like BA ;)..., From 12 flights i have recently done in BA i can tell you
that EL-AL have much better one... And i am talking about flights in BA
on Business and First! 4 flights (different planes) IFE didnt worked,
Screen size small, Playing tapes in bad condition so video quality is really bad...

The situation in EL-AL is not that different than other airlines..., So its true that flights from Hong-Kong have the new planes of BA (Blue colored First rather the brown on the old ones), But for those who fly (BA) from Bangkok
its an old plane...

My Exprience in BA Includes TLV, LHR, BKK, HKG, JFK around 16 flights in total, 50% in First, and i was afraid to get the impression i am loosing my time at EL-AL, But its not that different.
(BA Was really bad on service!)

Thanks! Could someone translate roughly this article. What do they say about ELH?

Roughly ELH is crap.

GT:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrg.co.il%2Fonline%2F16%2FART2% 2F277%2F298.html%3Fhp%3D16%26cat%3D1901%26loc%3D11

Thanks Riman for the translation. So what will LY do with ELH???

Thanks Riman for the translation. So what will LY do with ELH???

The same thing they are doing with other crappy airplanes - keep flying them.

[QUOTE=ebzed;17021174]From 12 flights i have recently done in BA i can tell you
that EL-AL have much better one...[/QUOTE If your saying LY have a better product than BA then we obviously have very different standards or rather expectations when it comes to premium travel.
I can't compare the soft products in F as I haven't travelled LY F in years (been sat in F with C service but not proper F) but in C at least I've had great crews and very average crews which is really like BA in that respect.
I've had some absolutely fantastic crews on BA as well.

But to be honest, yes, the soft product is important, but to me (and most others I know) the hard product is more important and LY fails terribly in that department.

C is no where near BA's CW and as for First, well we have all agreed many times on here that LY's hard product is a joke.

You were obviously unlucky and all your flights were in BA's old F, but try their new F and then come back and tell me LY is better (and even BA old F is considerably better than LY F).

As for the IFE well LY's screens in C are a joke, and out of a dozen flights I've taken with LY recently (744/777) only one of them had AVOD and even that didn't work properly and they kept having to re start the stystem.

BA offer 10" screens in CW (expect on the 767 that offers AVOD but smaller screens) and 15" in new F.
their AVOD is very far from faultless and I have had it malfunction on a number of occasions, but when it does happen compensation is generous in the form of miles (15K in C and 20K in F).

If your saying LY have a better product than BA then we obviously have very different standards or rather expectations when it comes to premium travel.
I can't compare the soft products in F as I haven't travelled LY F in years (been sat in F with C service but not proper F) but in C at least I've had great crews and very average crews which is really like BA in that respect.
I've had some absolutely fantastic crews on BA as well.

But to be honest, yes, the soft product is important, but to me (and most others I know) the hard product is more important and LY fails terribly in that department.

C is no where near BA's CW and as for First, well we have all agreed many times on here that LY's hard product is a joke.

You were obviously unlucky and all your flights were in BA's old F, but try their new F and then come back and tell me LY is better (and even BA old F is considerably better than LY F).

As for the IFE well LY's screens in C are a joke, and out of a dozen flights I've taken with LY recently (744/777) only one of them had AVOD and even that didn't work properly and they kept having to re start the stystem.

BA offer 10" screens in CW (expect on the 767 that offers AVOD but smaller screens) and 15" in new F.
their AVOD is very far from faultless and I have had it malfunction on a number of occasions, but when it does happen compensation is generous in the form of miles (15K in C and 20K in F).

+1 on all that
...and just to add, on BA's new 773 C also has 15" AVOD IFE.

http://www.nrg.co.il/online/16/ART2/277/298.html?hp=16&cat=1901&loc=11

Maybe buying old aircrafts is not a very good idea...


Chutzpa without border!

The day El Al will consider its passengers as customers and treat them with RESPECT things will start to change.

However, I fear this day will never come... because El Al "is Israel" - and not only an airline as they like to say.

:(

I feel that Elal Owners/Investors want to make an exit and that
Is the reason they dont invest in the company.
Maybe I am wrong...
Looks to me that Elal's managment is not that happy but has no choice

Lior

I'm actually a bit surprised that already, they have so many extra complaints, enough to warrant an article by Maariv.

I feel that Elal Owners/Investors want to make an exit and that
Is the reason they dont invest in the company.
Maybe I am wrong...
Looks to me that Elal's managment is not that happy but has no choice

Lior

I heard a better story on my flight back home, It seems the decision to purchase was made by mr. burovich, And he actually got a nice sum of money for doing so...
Plane is mainly used for Bangkok and Paris, And will be started to be used on flights to Nigeria (Never knew EL-AL fly there...) and indeed the whole crew keeps complaining about the plane and its problem, not to mention this is the biggest
economy plane EL-AL have but they didnt increase the amount of crew to handle all the people.

+1 on all that
...and just to add, on BA's new 773 C also has 15" AVOD IFE.

12 Flights, 12 Different planes and crews, you call this unlucky ?
Dont talk to me about New... talk to me about what they use TLV -> LHR
and LHR -> BKK and BKK -> SYD...
EL-AL also use the new 777 on TLV -> LAX....

Plane is mainly used for Bangkok and Paris, And will be started to be used on flights to Nigeria (Never knew EL-AL fly there...)
They don't as far as I know, but they wetlease planes to TAT Nigeria for Nigerian Christians who visit Israel... They even repainted ELD for that purpose for a few months.

http://jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6756629
(And by the way they hit a power cable with the winglet of the a/c during taxi, causing it to break off, as can be seen in the photo if you look closely

They don't as far as I know, but they wetlease planes to TAT Nigeria for Nigerian Christians who visit Israel... They even repainted ELD for that purpose for a few months.

http://jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6756629
(And by the way they hit a power cable with the winglet of the a/c during taxi, causing it to break off, as can be seen in the photo if you look closely

So they have time/money to paint it to look like that, but they aren't able to paint the whole fleet to current livery?!

So they have time/money to paint it to look like that, but they aren't able to paint the whole fleet to current livery?!

Well, to be exact it's just a matter of putting two stickers on that plane, it's no big deal and doesn't take too much time or effort to do.
Additionally, I have been told by more than one person at LY that fuel savings are the main reason behind the missing stripe on some of the leased A/Cs (and apparently an actual difference can be measured on long haul flights)

So they have time/money to paint it to look like that, but they aren't able to paint the whole fleet to current livery?!

And why didn't they repair the winglet?

Chutzpa without border!

The day El Al will consider its passengers as customers and treat them with RESPECT things will start to change.

However, I fear this day will never come... because El Al "is Israel" - and not only an airline as they like to say.

:(

Unfortunately, +1 on this one.
I guess LY does not need to purchase brand new aircraft, but to purchase brand new management & CEO.
With a proper and efficient management will LY operate as t should and purchase new planes as opposed to invest in the skeletons that are meant for the aircraft boneyard.

12 Flights, 12 Different planes and crews, you call this unlucky ?
No, that's just a matter of not liking the more British way of hospitality or just anything that's not the "Israeli" way, because I can't bealive you've taken 12 flights and on each and everyone of them the crew were bad.

As for the hard product, sorry but I still think you simply cannot compare LY dated product with BA's or any other decent J/F product out there.
In fact even CW on then 767s which is the old product is miles ahead of LY's "new" product.

By the way 3 out of last 4 flights in F on the TLV route had new First...




EL-AL also use the new 777 on TLV -> LAX....What new 777s do LY have??? :confused:

No, that's just a matter of not liking the more British way of hospitality or just anything that's not the "Israeli" way, because I can't bealive you've taken 12 flights and on each and everyone of them the crew were bad.

The question is what you define as Bad..., Yes they were smiley (very artifical!), No they didnt came to see how am i during the 11 hours flight or to offer more water... and so on, things which i am very used to get at el-al even with unfamiliar crew..


As for the hard product, sorry but I still think you simply cannot compare LY dated product with BA's or any other decent J/F product out there.
In fact even CW on then 767s which is the old product is miles ahead of LY's "new" product.

Sorry, But i allow my self to compare the F product between BA and EL-AL,
And on the planes i took on BA, EL-AL way better, I admit its the old F of BA, but it still exist, And comparable in the TLV -> LHR...


By the way 3 out of last 4 flights in F on the TLV route had new First...

took 6 times F out of IL all of them was the old one... 8-(

What new 777s do LY have??? :confused:
You know exactly whay i mean, the "new" ones used on LAX (kinda old, i think 7 years old, but in term of EL-AL its brand new!).

Again, With the expreince i had with BA i am not convinced to swith an airline... (not to mention that using reward flights in BA cost much more than EL-AL!).

The question is what you define as Bad..., Yes they were smiley (very artifical!), No they didnt came to see how am i during the 11 hours flight or to offer more water... and so on, things which i am very used to get at el-al even with unfamiliar crew..

Remember that with LY you are TPL so you get extra very good treatment whatever happens - even with unfamiliar crew because they nonetheless know your status. Not all LY passengers are as impressed by the service as you are. And that's fine. All airlines treat their most important customers better than others. It's too difficult to give the same level of attention to all.

As a Gold with BA I find I get treated very well including organising a special meal (including components from F) when there was nothing to my liking on the C menu.

I have also been treated very well by LY crew as a PL which has now (I think) come to an end. As a TPL you get even better treatment for sure.

You often mention in FT the special treatment you get on the ground in particular and again that's great but remember this isn't what most people get.


Sorry, But i allow my self to compare the F product between BA and EL-AL,
And on the planes i took on BA, EL-AL way better, I admit its the old F of BA, but it still exist, And comparable in the TLV -> LHR...


took 6 times F out of IL all of them was the old one... 8-(


I am sorry but as someone who has used the F and C products of LY numerous times, they do not compare to BA's offering in terms of seat comfort, privacy, and IFE. There is just no comparison.


Again, With the expreince i had with BA i am not convinced to swith an airline... (not to mention that using reward flights in BA cost much more than EL-AL!).

I didn't know you were considering a switch. My main reason for ditching LY is pricing which for me means the ability to fly BA C at a price not very different from flexible Y on LY. It cost me less than W on LY and I get full milleage.

You are right though that reward flights with BA cost more, especially as LY offer very low cost options where you use points instead of taxes.
That is the only gripe I have with BA and most European airlines and on this point alone they could learn from LY.

LY provides benefits to Israel-based FFs including direct flights to many destinations and I think that's what it comes down to - if you fly to different places around the world where LY have direct flights to that would be a main driver in using them despite the inferior product. For me, BA fits the bill beautifully, i.e. they fly where I need to get to without much hassle and they get me there in comfort at a good price.

Hey economyman: Is your primary destination in Europe or North America?

I am sorry but as someone who has used the F and C products of LY numerous times, they do not compare to BA's offering in terms of seat comfort, privacy, and IFE. There is just no comparison.
+1.

ebzed I seriously cannot understand how you can rate LY's C orF as anything more than basic (the hard product).
The fact that it is light years behind the competition has been discussed here many times.

I just don't see how you can say that LY's F which offers no privacy what so ever can compare to a window seat on BA's CW or F (yes I think CW offers a better seats than LY's F).

LY F would be a nice Biz product but as a First product is fails.

+1.

ebzed I seriously cannot understand how you can rate LY's C orF as anything more than basic (the hard product).
The fact that it is light years behind the competition has been discussed here many times.

I just don't see how you can say that LY's F which offers no privacy what so ever can compare to a window seat on BA's CW or F (yes I think CW offers a better seats than LY's F).

LY F would be a nice Biz product but as a First product is fails.

It looks like an endless discussion, Each on of us have different opinion,
I am a big guy...,
CW Seats, Aisle is a night mare, Not to mention if you take the 2 middle ones,
Window is better, But seat is smaller (didnt measured, Its all about how my ... felt!) than F/C of EL-AL, Try to put your hands up in the CW or bring your own headphones which have a bit bigger connector...
Window in CW is nice, but when food is served or during landing/take off, I dont want to see a face infront of me (in F i always take the first seat, which i am alone).

F Seats, I dont know which privacy you dont have in LY, But when you fly F, 99% of the times they will arrange you 2 seats and no one seat near you.
There is also a separator you can use in order to avoid eye contact with the person near you when you in flat mode.
Seats are bigger than BA's F (Butt wise!).
I am Gold as well in BA (Last Month, Easy to get when u do F...), So i should get the "special treatment" as well....

So Again, For My Opinion BA is not as good as i thought it will be...
Even on the Hard Product (Just to make sure i am not EL-AL-HOLIC, Cathay and JAL have much better seating than EL-AL! (Not to mention the Captain Special Reserve wine selection for F! (first time i ever heard about such stuff....))

Its true i am TPL, But also when i was PL it was the same and i will go extreme and say that most of my relation ship with people in EL-AL were built when i was GL... Its a small company, that's the main benefit.

Again, I Fly (And i think i fly a little bit more than the regular FF), I am big guy (150kg), Big ... (Tunisian (hope you all know the joke) and that is my opinion between LY and BA...

And yes, ELH is not the best plane in earth, But even 737 can be nightmare when its full of French-Jewish people or young people going to Thailand.

It looks like an endless discussion, Each on of us have different opinion

You make a valid point about the seat design on BA in that to achieve 8 across they used an intertwined forward facing / backward facing design which results in uneven width along the length of the seat. For most people this is of no consequence because the narrow part is at the legs whereas the butt and upper part of the body gets the wider part of the seat.

As I know you personally, I can agree with you that you are a big guy, a nice big guy :)

In any case, notice that you are comparing BA C to LY F. If we are talking about paid tickets and we mix the cost into the argument, well, need I say any more.

I don't want to seem like a BA apologist. I like BA, I also have a soft spot for LY in certain respects. There are better airlines than both BA and LY but at the end of the day we have to see what works best for us and go for it.

Hey economyman: Is your primary destination in Europe or North America?

North America

In any case, notice that you are comparing BA C to LY F. If we are talking about paid tickets and we mix the cost into the argument, well, need I say any more.


I am comparing F to F, C to C on the TLV -> LHR, and LHR -> BKK vs TLV -> BKK.
I am trying to compare BA Gold to LY TPL but i assume this should be BA Premier (Black) to TPL.

Now i need to find an American airline to stick to, Soon i will have my own Good Bye message in the Forum as i am switching continent 8-(

BTW, There are good things i found in BA:
1. Lounge Access across the world (With Silver or Gold)
2. If something wrong in the fly, you get an immediate compensation (VOD broken? 20k Points (or 110GBP)
3. Deserts (for my big butt!)

BTW: If anyone is intrested i have an open invetation from EL-AL to see a day "life" of a flight, From plane cleanup up to crew debreif to the departure (i will probably then leave the plane), I can bring a friend or two, This in order to understand that what look obvious for us, is very hard to arrange...

You make a valid point about the seat designAgree.

BTW: If anyone is intrested i have an open invetation from EL-AL to see a day "life" of a flight, From plane cleanup up to crew debreif to the departure (i will probably then leave the plane), I can bring a friend or two, This in order to understand that what look obvious for us, is very hard to arrange...

Hey - that may be a nice day in the field. What's the date? Maybe clubman would also want to join...

I am trying to compare BA Gold to LY TPL but i assume this should be BA Premier (Black)...
Actually no.

While TPL is an earnable status, Premier is not.
It's by invite only and usually handed out to people spending hundreds of thousands of pounds (or millions more likely) with BA a year whether themselves (highly unlikely) or through their employees.


Now i need to find an American airline to stick to, Soon i will have my own Good Bye message in the Forum as i am switching continent 8-(...
No way, you ain't going anywhere!


BTW: If anyone is intrested i have an open invetation from EL-AL to see a day "life" of a flightWould love to join you, but then I'm sure many others here would to, so prepare yourselves for many requests and PMs... :)

Anyway, bear me in mind...

I am comparing F to F, C to C on the TLV -> LHR, and LHR -> BKK vs TLV -> BKK.
I am trying to compare BA Gold to LY TPL but i assume this should be BA Premier (Black) to TPL.

Now i need to find an American airline to stick to, Soon i will have my own Good Bye message in the Forum as i am switching continent 8-(

BTW, There are good things i found in BA:
1. Lounge Access across the world (With Silver or Gold)
2. If something wrong in the fly, you get an immediate compensation (VOD broken? 20k Points (or 110GBP)
3. Deserts (for my big butt!)

BTW: If anyone is intrested i have an open invetation from EL-AL to see a day "life" of a flight, From plane cleanup up to crew debreif to the departure (i will probably then leave the plane), I can bring a friend or two, This in order to understand that what look obvious for us, is very hard to arrange...

Would love to join!

Why you leaving us? And the only program you will find that will give you comparable treatment to TPL in the USA is UA's Global Services. But it's unclear the direction the airline is taking, and it might not be a great option in the next couple of years.