Russia - Overnight train Moscow to St Petersburg?

Hi-

In another thread, I mentioned that we were taking a cruise next June from St Petersburg to Copenhagen. We are flying to Moscow for a few days of sightseeing and then planned to take a Saturday morning train to St Petersburg. Problem is Saturday is the major celebration night of White Nights and our friends can't get a room on points (we did awhile ago - pure luck) and rooms that are available are a fortune. The cruise line got them a room at a break for only $500 for Sat night.

I thought that maybe the answer was to stay in Moscow until Saturday night and board and sleep in a sleeper car. We'd arrive Sunday, board Monday but the boat does not depart until Tuesday night.

So the question is what are the trains like and are they comfortable for sleeping? Are they sleezy? Curious what the entire experience would be like and if this is an option that makes sense in light of the hotel situation. And if anyone is knowledgeable enough, any recommendation regarding a specific train, eg Grand Express vs Red Arrow?

Appreciate any insight. Thanks!

So the question is what are the trains like and are they comfortable for sleeping? Are they sleezy? Curious what the entire experience would be like
To be honest, the experience will depend on you/your friends to a certain extent. Some people HATE overnight trains, some people are FINE with it. If you have not done an overnight train trip before, you are not going to know what you think of them until you try them!! I'm not sure how you'd define sleazy - I could tell you fun-filled tales of drinking with soldiers on overnight trains and have X rated anecdotes people indulging in all sorts of things in their kupe or even the vestibule between carriages - but you'd really have to go out of your way to hunt it down! I've taken the Red Arrow once (it was nice enough), but usually I've just used your standard overnight trains between various cities in the former Soviet Union that everyday people use all the time and suffered no ill effect. Have a look at http://www.seat61.com/Russia-trains.htm or http://www.waytorussia.net/Transport/International/Train.html for a better idea of train travel Russia. It might not agree with you, but you'll never know unless you try!

Do it!

I went St Petersburg to Moscow to St Petersburg on the overnight train and it was absolutely bewitching. It's about 400 miles between the 2 cities and takes about 8 hours so bank on it being a slow comfortable ride.

Two of us had an individual cabin, they give you flat pack flip flops and a bit of breakfast, cute little beds. In the morning you have to put your flip flops on and walk to the end of the carriage to get the hot water for your tea.

I don't know if they have updated the trains since I last went (I don't see why they would) but it is a James Bond-esque journey through time to a place with wooden panelled rail travel with cute cabins.

It is not the Orient Express but it is an absolutely unmissable experience

I would definitely shell out for the "LUKS" the first class, two-person compartment. Actually, if there are four of you traveling, you can book an entire Kupe (Compartment) and be fine with two upper births and two lower births.

I have done it 100 times. I now only do it against my will. Not because of sleaze, not because of drinking, I just cannot sleep on the darn things. As part of traffic management (since there are so many trains going back and forth overnight between Moscow and St. Pete) you end up getting shunted off 3-4 times to side tracks to wait 20-30 minutes for other trains go by. Every time this happens, I wake up and can't fall asleep until the train starts moving again.

I much prefer the Sapsan, the modern, high speed train that goes during the day and takes about 4 hours. Personally, I would stay in the hotel in Moscow, get up at 6am and catch the first Sapsan to St. Pete. You'll sleep better and have a more enjoyable day seeing the sights.

I've done the train a couple of times and w:puld definitely suggest the overnight Red Arrow as the best way to experience train travel on this route. From the Soviet-era music played as the train departs to the samovars with hot water at the end of each car, it's quite a retro experience. ^^

The overnight train sound like a mesmerizing experience for us Russian neophytes. But I would be torn between enjoying the mysterious magic of traveling through the Russian countryside at night on a train but on the other hand regretting not being able to see the landscapes passing by. I definitely want to experience the overnight train but I think it will have to wait until after I've done the same trip in the daylight so I won't have to wonder what I'm missing.

Personally, I prefer the Saspan.
Or the LED-SVO shuttle.

But the overnight trains are incredible value.

The Soviet era music might be there, but the Samovar's at the end of the car? This is disappearing, much like the sicle and the hammer.

regretting not being able to see the landscapes passing by.Frankly speaking, there's not much to miss in between. Fields, forests, fences, fields, forests, fences, fields, forests, fences, station with cargo wagons, a few houses, and then again fields, forests, fences. There are no great views like in the Swiss Alps.

The Soviet era music might be there, but the Samovar's at the end of the car? This is disappearingHmm... Don't know what you're speaking about. What do you mean by "Soviet era music"?

And "Samovar" which is "disappearing"? Do you mean the boiler? They're still in place, not any chance for them to disappear in foreseeable future.

Red Arrow is still considered the best train, which I would go for. Their Luks (2 birth compartments) have breakfast included, which is a nice touch.

As for the night vs day travel... It really depends on how much time you have. If you are limited by time, it's great to spend a night on the train and enjoy St. Petersburg for an extra day (it's well worth it!). If you have plenty of time, you can choose the day express train, which only takes 4.5 hours.

But either way, you would want to book your tickets as early as possible. The earliest you can book train tickets in Russia is 45 days in advance. If you have any Russian speaking friends, you can actually do it yourself on the official railways website http://rzd.ru/

Hmm... Don't know what you're speaking about. What do you mean by "Soviet era music"?Wikipedia says this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Arrow_%28Russian_train%29):Since 1965, the song "The Hymn to the Great City" (composed by Reinhold Glière and adopted as the hymn of Saint Petersburg) has been playing when the Red Arrow leaves Saint Petersburg at 23:55.

Hmm... Don't know what you're speaking about. What do you mean by "Soviet era music"?Wikipedia says this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Arrow_%28Russian_train%29):Since 1965, the song "The Hymn to the Great City" (composed by Reinhold Glière and adopted as the hymn of Saint Petersburg) has been playing when the Red Arrow leaves Saint Petersburg at 23:55.

I'm planning to take the Red Arrow in May 2012. Any opinions on first class (2 berths) vs. 2nd class (4 berths) as far as differences? Better amenities? Does only first class receive breakfast? Anything else?

I'm planning to take the Red Arrow in May 2012. Any opinions on first class (2 berths) vs. 2nd class (4 berths) as far as differences? Better amenities? Does only first class receive breakfast? Anything else?

If you're traveling with one other person, the first class cabin is great. The four person kupe you're casting your dice who you're going to end up with. I've had great companions, especially if you're up for talking and drinking (it's not always the case, but it does happen), I've also had very calm, quiet companions. If you want to be sure of a quiet night and you're traveling with one other person, definitely go for the first class cabin.

Wikipedia says this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Arrow_%28Russian_train%29):Ummm, don't know if it is "Soviet era music"... Sounds like just plain music for me, nothing specifically Soviet. :-)

Ummm, don't know if it is "Soviet era music"... Sounds like just plain music for me, nothing specifically Soviet. :-)

Sounds patriotically Russian to me...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3IQvhJGcE4

Sounds patriotically Russian to me...Exactly, it is done in Russian patriotic tradition, but nothing specifically Soviet.

IMHO, Soviet music is something like Tankmen's March (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7V5qGNTYqg) or Do Russians Want War? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCwf6dEzLMg).

Just back from my Russia trip. Regarding the Red Arrow, I had purchased a 2nd class sleeping compartment lower berth. I expected to have three other passengers in my compartment but was pleasantly surprised to find myself alone.

Shortly after we departed the station, a couple of Russian Railway staff were joking and laughing. They had nicknamed me "Mr. President" as I not only had my own sleeping compartment but... I was the only passenger in the entire sleeping car!

I traveled the evening before Victory Day which I guess is a very light travel time in Russia. I wandered through some of the other sleeping cars and observed very light loads as well, although none of them only carried one passenger like mine.

was a number of years ago, but the first class trains(thought there were two) overnights were booked. we went on an old ww 2 train. the cars looked like something out of a 1940's movie. had a great time, the cabin was beautiful. the toilet was not too sharp. train was so cheap, and hotel so expensive, joked about spending the whole two weeks on the overnight train.

A friend and I are planning on taking an overnight train between Moscow and St Petersburg in July. From what I've seen in this thread, it looks like we can attempt to use the rzd.ru site or www.waytorussia.net. Does anyone have any other sites that they can recommend? Also, are there any trains that we would definitely want to avoid? Thanks.

-halfpny

A friend and I are planning on taking an overnight train between Moscow and St Petersburg in July. From what I've seen in this thread, it looks like we can attempt to use the rzd.ru site or www.waytorussia.net. Does anyone have any other sites that they can recommend? Also, are there any trains that we would definitely want to avoid? Thanks.

-halfpny

I used this company: http://www.trainsrussia.com/en/travels/

I found them to charge a little less. Their response time and customer service was perfect.

I used this company: http://www.trainsrussia.com/en/travels/

I found them to charge a little less. Their response time and customer service was perfect.

Awesome - sounds like exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks MileageAddict.