EL AL Matmid - Good bye, leaving El Al

after been a Matmid member for the past 18 years.
after travelling with EL-AL every week for the past 8 years
after been a Platinum member for 5 years
after been a Top Platinum member for the past 3 years
after more than 600 flights with el-al in the past 9 years

STOP, no more, no more EL-AL, from next week on i will be flying with another company, i will keep my routine, i will still fly every week, but no more with el-al.

reasons?? there is so many, here is a few

1) why do you have to use so much the PA system? why do you have to announce everything in 3 different languages? why can't you be a little bit quiet??

2) why do you use such small aircraft's (737)? why can't we have a normal business class??

3) why do you have to sale duty free at 3 AM? why can't you just turn off the lights and let us get some rest?

4) why is the steward so annoying, why can't he even say hello to a TP?

5) why do you have to wake-us up 45 minutes before landing? why do you need us to straight our seat 45 minute before landing? why do you need to collect the news papers before landing?

6) why when the steward wants to sale duty free items the captain turn the seat-belt sign on?

7) why do you have so many delays? why do you always say it's the aircraft fault because he arrived late :-(


the list goes further, but at this point i can't take it anymore, so this is my final decision, GOOD BYE EL-AL

all this complains were compared personally with others airlines.

your FT for the past 18 years but not for the next 20 years

2) why do you use such small aircraft's (737)? why can't we have a normal business class??



which route do you fly if you always have a 737?

Zurich, Milano, Rome, Wien, Prague and almost any other country in europe
Besides Paris and London all others places get 737 or 757

after been a Matmid member for the past 18 years.
after travelling with EL-AL every week for the past 8 years
after been a Platinum member for 5 years
after been a Top Platinum member for the past 3 years
after more than 600 flights with el-al in the past 9 years

From next week on i will be flying with another company

Is it a secret who this company will be? after all when flying to so many places, it won't be possible to have non stop flights to all these locations.

After all with these petty problems put together, it still dosen't make it worth while a stop.
BTW if you dream that with other airlines, you won't find problems like selling duty free, using the PA system in 3 languages, waking you up for landing, and small aircraft, you've got a problem my friend as with other airlines you'll also find most of these problems and probaly plenty more, intresting that we've had many threads here discussing things we want LY to change, and most of these haven't occured to anybody. :rolleyes:

I just gave you examples to what places the 737 is flying to, my destenitions have direct flights from tlv and even better schedule.

Until now i was a Zionist and preferd to give money to an israeli company, but not anymore.

I Guess you did not try recentlly other airlines, i did and all this matters i spoke about were not an issue in this airlines.

The PA system was used only few times, no Alut and Aleh and no PA marketing.

They let you sleep up to 15 minutes before landing and not 45.

They keep the lights off during The entire flight, they don't pass with the duty free at 3 am, if you want anything from the duty free you have to go to the end of the aircraft...

I will not try to convince anyone to do the same, but i'm not the only TP who is leaving El-Al.

Does the competition offer you widebodies on these routes? I know BA does. Just look at recently posted threads here to see that AF doesn't stack up against LY C.

Oh, and btw, I flew LX ZRH-TLV. Every announcement, 4 languages. (Hebrew, English, German, and Spanish.)

Many of the issues you have will be the same everywhere. But do what makes you happy. Not calling LY perfect by any stretch of the imagination. I do find it weird that you stayed TPL this much and are just dropping them completely. If they were really so bad, why stick it out so long? Most people would slowly shop around, and drop to PL, or GL before leaving.

Finally, are you really no longer Zionist because LY stinks? And being Zionist should in no way impact which airline you choose. LY is, after all, a private company. (As in not a state-owned entity.)

I just gave you examples to what places the 737 is flying to, my destenitions have direct flights from tlv and even better schedule.

You still haven't told us which airline will operate all these routes (perhaps you haven't thought about that yet), do you really plan to be using 3 different flyer programs?!

You still haven't told us which airline will operate all these routes (perhaps you haven't thought about that yet), do you really plan to be using 3 different flyer programs?!

Secret is out he plans to use Swiss (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles-more-lufthansa-austrian-swiss-other-partners/1081430-coming-another-ft-company.html#post13896680).
Although I don't know how he will have them direct to PRG, LHR, MXP, FCO, CDG?

You still haven't told us which airline will operate all these routes (perhaps you haven't thought about that yet), do you really plan to be using 3 different flyer programs?!

I will be using LX and LH, one program, i should attend HON in less than a year and i would have much more benefit than in LY as TP.

LX a340 and LH using both the A340 and 747

Secret is out he plans to use Swiss (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles-more-lufthansa-austrian-swiss-other-partners/1081430-coming-another-ft-company.html#post13896680).
Although I don't know how he will have them direct to PRG, LHR, MXP, FCO, CDG?

I have no id how you get to this conclusions, yes i will be flying LX and LH as i wrote above but i have no need to get to FCO, PRG, or any of this airpots you mention, my destenition will be Zurich, Frankfurt, Munich.

It could be from time to time that i will need to have connection flight but most of the time it will be direct flights.

Finally, are you really no longer Zionist because LY stinks? And being Zionist should in no way impact which airline you choose. LY is, after all, a private company. (As in not a state-owned entity.)

i'm still a Zionist and i will remain so, like you say ELAL is now a private company so no need to worry about them.

I have no id how you get to this conclusions, yes i will be flying LX and LH as i wrote above but i have no need to get to FCO, PRG, or any of this airpots you mention, my destenition will be Zurich, Frankfurt, Munich.

It could be from time to time that i will need to have connection flight but most of the time it will be direct flights.

FRA and MUC are 767s as well.

HON is not the same as TPL as you posted. HON is harder to get and has greater benefits (except for luggage allowances).

I have no id how you get to this conclusions, yes i will be flying LX and LH as i wrote above but i have no need to get to FCO, PRG, or any of this airpots you mention, my destenition will be Zurich, Frankfurt, Munich.

It could be from time to time that i will need to have connection flight but most of the time it will be direct flights.

I'm trying to work out an id where he got to this conclusion
Zurich, Milano, Rome, Wien, Prague and almost any other country in europe
Besides Paris and London all others places get 737 or 757

I'm trying to work out an id where he got to this conclusion

Let's not let facts get in the way of our rants :rolleyes:

FRA and MUC are 767s as well.

HON is not the same as TPL as you posted. HON is harder to get and has greater benefits (except for luggage allowances).

When flying from Israel to Europe, it's easier to get Hon than TP, if you fly W class with ELAL you get 100 points each way, for TP you need 10000 miles to get to 10000 points you need to have 50 flights (only 2 weeks vacation :-()

With Miles and more you need to get 600'000 miles in two years, if you do just 35 flights a year you will still get the Hon level.

Miles & More count your bonus point for status miles not like ELAL

I'm trying to work out an id where he got to this conclusion

You should read carfully the discusions, the names of this airport were writen only as response for the question were is the 737 flying to.

I wrote all this airport as example and not as destenitions.

My office is in Switzerland!

When flying from Israel to Europe, it's easier to get Hon than TP, if you fly W class with ELAL you get 100 points each way, for TP you need 10000 miles to get to 10000 points you need to have 50 flights (only 2 weeks vacation :-()

With Miles and more you need to get 600'000 miles in two years, if you do just 35 flights a year you will still get the Hon level.

Miles & More count your bonus point for status miles not like ELAL

Where are you flying that 35 flights will get you HON, and what booking class?

You should read carfully the discusions, the names of this airport were writen only as response for the question were is the 737 flying to.

I wrote all this airport as example and not as destenitions.

My office is in Switzerland!

I think I read the discussions quite well, and this is what I read to what you replied with those airports.
which route do you fly if you always have a 737?

You should read carfully the discusions, the names of this airport were writen only as response for the question were is the 737 flying to.

I wrote all this airport as example and not as destenitions.

My office is in Switzerland!

For the record, I don't believe anyone read that. Following the discussion carefully shows you saying you fly to all those places on a 737.

Miles & More count your bonus point for status miles not like ELAL

Double check on that one, because M&M do have award miles and bonus miles.

Where are you flying that 35 flights will get you HON, and what booking class?

35 x 2 years = 70, in M&M no matter what business class ticket you have, you will get the same amount of points, each way 8240 miles to FRA.

Any way i fly about 45-48 weeks every year so i would not have any problem to get to HON

Double check on that one, because M&M do have award miles and bonus miles.

:confused:

The whole comparison is off because LY awards points based on fare class and region. M&M gives miles based on length of flight, fare class, and elite level.

Saying LY doesn't count bonus points is wrong. The points you get are based on fare class. Saying bonus points don't count as akin to saying it would take the same amount of time to earn Silver, whether flying cheapest possible Y fare (T I believe) of flying F. Simply not true.

M&M awards miles based on the length of flight and fare class, similar but not exactly the same as Matmid. Elites do earn an additional bonus, but I'm not sure whether those are only RDMs or EQMs as well.

Double check on that one, because M&M do have award miles and bonus miles.

I did check more than once, bonus miles have been always added to my status miles.

I'm already a FT in M&M and i see them in my status miles.

35 x 2 years = 70, in M&M no matter what business class ticket you have, you will get the same amount of points, each way 8240 miles to FRA.

Any way i fly about 45-48 weeks every year so i would not have any problem to get to HON

Are you sure the 8,240 miles are all status, as opposed to the 7,324. Besides, even if they are, 8,240 * 35 doesn't equal 300,000. HON is 600K over 2 years, so 300K average per year.

You need 25 r/t flights TLV-FRA to earn TPL in Biz. The 50 you quote is one-way, whereas you compare that to 35 flights which is round-trip. So again, easier to get TPL than HON.

Are you sure the 8,240 miles are all status, as opposed to the 7,324. Besides, even if they are, 8,240 * 35 doesn't equal 300,000. HON is 600K over 2 years, so 300K average per year.

You need 25 r/t flights TLV-FRA to earn TPL in Biz. The 50 you quote is one-way, whereas you compare that to 35 flights which is round-trip. So again, easier to get TPL than HON.

Wrong about elal, you need 50 flight 2 way 100 miles each way, r/t in w class gives you 200 miles.

Easier to get HON

Saying LY doesn't count bonus points is wrong.I think you're getting confused with base fare class points and bonus points which are awarded by status, which LY does not count towards status.

For example the extra 100 points you would earn travelling on a C fare to Europe compared to a W fare are not considered "Bonus points", while the 100extra points you would earn on that trip as a PL are.

You all seem to be very negative towards the OP’s decision, and so protective of LY that you keep replying to him with irrelevant facts and figures, while ignoring the fact that he very clearly stated things like, he travels W class meaning he needs 100 sectors to maintain TPL, the fact that he stated the 8000 miles earned in C on LH are for one way and not return etc...
While I think some of the OP reasons are ridiculous, I can totally understand why he is fed up with LY.
It is extremely difficult maintaining status with them considering how few points most classes earn unless you’re travelling on the most expensive tickets, and the fares are outrageous.

While I think some of the OP reasons are ridiculous, I can totally understand why he is fed up with LY.


^
That about sums it up.

It is extremely difficult maintaining status with them considering how few points most classes earn unless you’re travelling on the most expensive tickets, and the fares are outrageous.

+1

I think you're getting confused with base fare class points and bonus points which are awarded by status, which LY does not count towards status.

For example the extra 100 points you would earn travelling on a C fare to Europe compared to a W fare are not considered "Bonus points", while the 100extra points you would earn on that trip as a PL are.

You all seem to be very negative towards the OP’s decision, and so protective of LY that you keep replying to him with irrelevant facts and figures, while ignoring the fact that he very clearly stated things like, he travels W class meaning he needs 100 sectors to maintain TPL, the fact that he stated the 8000 miles earned in C on LH are for one way and not return etc...
While I think some of the OP reasons are ridiculous, I can totally understand why he is fed up with LY.
It is extremely difficult maintaining status with them considering how few points most classes earn unless you’re travelling on the most expensive tickets, and the fares are outrageous.

about W ...
Why not a corporate account ? and then sometimes the D class fare costs just as much as W, sometimes 50$ more .. and then get double points ...

about W ...
Why not a corporate account ? and then sometimes the D class fare costs just as much as W, sometimes 50$ more .. and then get double points ...

For that matter, a "kartisiya" can get you very good discounts if you travel a lot.

For me the unique selling point of ELAL is their service (I do not mean on the plane but their club) for PL/TPL which is amazing in my opinion - I have asked them for many unusual things and they always came through and helped me.

I was a SEN on LH and never got any special attention or help from them when I needed it.

I would be interested to ask the OP to compare LX/LH club service once he reaches HON compared to TPL.
Thanks!
Yoav

I think you're getting confused with base fare class points and bonus points which are awarded by status, which LY does not count towards status.

For example the extra 100 points you would earn travelling on a C fare to Europe compared to a W fare are not considered "Bonus points", while the 100extra points you would earn on that trip as a PL are.

You all seem to be very negative towards the OP’s decision, and so protective of LY that you keep replying to him with irrelevant facts and figures, while ignoring the fact that he very clearly stated things like, he travels W class meaning he needs 100 sectors to maintain TPL, the fact that he stated the 8000 miles earned in C on LH are for one way and not return etc...
While I think some of the OP reasons are ridiculous, I can totally understand why he is fed up with LY.
It is extremely difficult maintaining status with them considering how few points most classes earn unless you’re travelling on the most expensive tickets, and the fares are outrageous.

I was responding to points being made by the OP. Yes it is very hard to maintain status on LY. I wasn't getting confused about bonus points, but the OP implied that LY only gives BIS points which isn't true. Many airlines offer bonus miles for status which don't count towards status. Does M&M count them towards status?
I said that there are things that make LY good and things that make it bad.

My reason for negativity are some of the reasons. To me, it's similar to someone on the UA/CO board saying they will leave because UA no longer offers E+ for free from booking to low level elites. Um, considering UA is the only airline with E+, where you gonna go? (E+ is not the same as WT+. It's regular Y with increased legroom, so usually, half of Y is E+ and half is regular Y, or E-.) Leave an airline, fine. Don't rant about it unless you have solid reasons. Complaining that they only send a 737 to destinations you don't even care about is not a reason for a rant. Complaining about many things they have on most if not all airlines I've been on is simply looking for a reason to complain.

I was responding to points being made by the OP. Yes it is very hard to maintain status on LY. I wasn't getting confused about bonus points, but the OP implied that LY only gives BIS points which isn't true. Many airlines offer bonus miles for status which don't count towards status. Does M&M count them towards status?
I said that there are things that make LY good and things that make it bad.




i never said that elal dose not give bonus point, i said elal don't count them toward status, M&M do count bonus point toward status.

For me the unique selling point of ELAL is their service (I do not mean on the plane but their club) for PL/TPL which is amazing in my opinion - I have asked them for many unusual things and they always came through and helped me.

I was a SEN on LH and never got any special attention or help from them when I needed it.

I would be interested to ask the OP to compare LX/LH club service once he reaches HON compared to TPL.
Thanks!
Yoav

i will write about it as soon as i get to senator, i will write about my expirience with this company, i will write about evrything.

p.s.
"Effective 01 September 2011, all SWISS flights from/to Israel will be operated by Airbus 340 offering the new enhanced Business Class.

The new business class compartment introduces 47 seats reclineable to a fully horizontal surface, 2-meter-long bed with an integrated massage. The air pillow system is adjustable from soft to firm for comfort seating and resting.
The new design enables more personal space for relaxation or work."

Leave an airline, fine. Don't rant about it unless you have solid reasons. Complaining that they only send a 737 to destinations you don't even care about is not a reason for a rant. Complaining about many things they have on most if not all airlines I've been on is simply looking for a reason to complain.

+1

I fly LY because i can get some help when i need one from
people who wants to help.

I can fly direct to most of the destinations.
I can ask F/A things that i am afraid to ask
when i fly LH or LX .
The service in LY is very good most of the time.

I hate the biz class on the 737 so to zur i fly with
lX on the codeshare.

Reading some other airlines forums you here
a lot of rant.
We all need to move to Singapore

Lior

I can ask F/A things that i am afraid to ask
when i fly LH or LX .

The thoughts that are running through my head...
What kind of things?

Oh, and btw, I flew LX ZRH-TLV. Every announcement, 4 languages. (Hebrew, English, German, and Spanish.)

Finally, are you really no longer Zionist because LY stinks? And being Zionist should in no way impact which airline you choose. LY is, after all, a private company. (As in not a state-owned entity.)


Correction, the PA is done in all the aforementioned languages + Italian and not Spanish.

The thoughts that are running through my head...
What kind of things?

I can ask to get a magazine before they offer them so
I wont miss the one i like.
I can ask them to be quite in the gali so i can
have a beeter sleep ( i tried to ask in LH
and the look i got was...)

I can ask to have brakefast before normal time
because of medical reasons.
I can ask for more pillows.

Dear johnnie, i think you are in the wrong forum
If you thought what you thought :)
And i know what you thought...

Lior

Oh, and btw, I flew LX ZRH-TLV. Every announcement, 4 languages. (Hebrew, English, German, and Spanish.)

Oh no! what's the OP going to do?!!!

Oh no! what's the OP going to do?!!!

Truth is, C is better on LX than on LY. Y though on LY is significantly better IMO. LX is very uncomfortable.

Truth is, C is better on LX than on LY. Y though on LY is significantly better IMO. LX is very uncomfortable.
I disagree about Y... The seats are similar. The IFE even on the old A330 is better that the 737 of LY. The food service is better and faster. I once measured them. Less than one hour from take off untill they turn off the lights. ou also get drinks with the food.


I like LY but LX is better...

Oh no! what's the OP going to do?!!!

i understand you working for elal and you here do defend them but don't worry i wouldn't try to get other people to leave elal who ever want's to leave will leave without me convincing him.
as for the announcement, their is much less announcement in LX than in elal, for example,
in LX they don't try to convince you to become a member in the PA system and in 3 different languages,
they don't try to sale you duty free items on the PA in 3 different languages,
they don't collect money for Alut and Ale over the PA system in 3 different languages
when they want you to fast you seat belt they will say "please fast your seat-belt", in ELAL they will say "Ladies and gentlemen, the captain as switch on the seat-belt sign, please go back to your seat and fast your seat belt, thank you" and they say it in 3 different languages.

so when i'm talking about the PA system everyone understand exactly what i'm talking about.

I disagree about Y... The seats are similar. The IFE even on the old A330 is better that the 737 of LY. The food service is better and faster. I once measured them. Less than one hour from take off untill they turn off the lights. ou also get drinks with the food.


I like LY but LX is better...

beginning September 2nd, LX will use on all the flights to Israel A340 with the new business seats.

that's what Swiss wrote on their website:

"THE ALL NEW BUSINESS CLASS
ON AIRBUS A330/A340
A unique travel experience awaits you! Effective 02 September 2011, SWISS brings you the all new Business Class on the Tel Aviv - Zurich sector.

Enjoy your personal space and the unique SWISS service, and reach your destination feeling relaxed and refreshed.

Experience the 2-meter-long bed with adjustable air cushions and integrated massage function. With extra personal space, you can lounge more comfortably or use your time to work undisturbed. Beside a premium level of comfort, there are a number of outstanding features you'll appreciate:

- 2 meter fully lie-flat bed with massage function
- more personal space for work or rest
- air cushion seat with individual settings from the firmness of a futon to the softness of a waterbed
- In-flight entertainment on a large personal screen
- Lightweight design for a lower CO2 consumption
Business Class redifined."

you can also go on youtube to check the new business class http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY3droKUhAM
after seeing this video you will not compare it anymore with ELAL 737 business class.

i understand you working for elal and you here do defend them

I don't work for Elal, and don't fly with them usualy more than once a year (I fly with cheapest or more convinient schedule, I only today booked a ticket with Swiss to TLV).

I have no problem at all with you leaving Elal, I'm only bothered by this Israeli trend to bash Elal, and the length they go to find something to complain, I'm not the only one on this forum who was very superised by your pathetic reasons to leave them.

i understand you working for elal and you here do defend them but don't worry i wouldn't try to get other people to leave elal who ever want's to leave will leave without me convincing him.
as for the announcement, their is much less announcement in LX than in elal, for example,
in LX they don't try to convince you to become a member in the PA system and in 3 different languages,
they don't try to sale you duty free items on the PA in 3 different languages,
they don't collect money for Alut and Ale over the PA system in 3 different languages
when they want you to fast you seat belt they will say "please fast your seat-belt", in ELAL they will say "Ladies and gentlemen, the captain as switch on the seat-belt sign, please go back to your seat and fast your seat belt, thank you" and they say it in 3 different languages.

so when i'm talking about the PA system everyone understand exactly what i'm talking about.

ELAL doesn't work for LY. And again, I've flown LX, and I fly CO extensively. The same thing. On CO flights to Israel, just like LY flights to NYC, announcements are only made in 2 languages, but the same thing. And the announcements are all the same. The 2 extra words that they may not have said some of the times you've flown LX but will say other times aren't the end of the world.

beginning September 2nd, LX will use on all the flights to Israel A340 with the new business seats.

that's what Swiss wrote on their website:

"THE ALL NEW BUSINESS CLASS
ON AIRBUS A330/A340
A unique travel experience awaits you! Effective 02 September 2011, SWISS brings you the all new Business Class on the Tel Aviv - Zurich sector.

Enjoy your personal space and the unique SWISS service, and reach your destination feeling relaxed and refreshed.

Experience the 2-meter-long bed with adjustable air cushions and integrated massage function. With extra personal space, you can lounge more comfortably or use your time to work undisturbed. Beside a premium level of comfort, there are a number of outstanding features you'll appreciate:

- 2 meter fully lie-flat bed with massage function
- more personal space for work or rest
- air cushion seat with individual settings from the firmness of a futon to the softness of a waterbed
- In-flight entertainment on a large personal screen
- Lightweight design for a lower CO2 consumption
Business Class redifined."

you can also go on youtube to check the new business class http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY3droKUhAM
after seeing this video you will not compare it anymore with ELAL 737 business class.

The post you responded to was a response to my post. I said very clearly C is better on LX. I was referring to LY.

I don't work for Elal, and don't fly with them usualy more than once a year (I fly with cheapest or more convinient schedule, I only today booked a ticket with Swiss to TLV).

I have no problem at all with you leaving Elal, I'm only bothered by this Israeli trend to bash Elal, and the length they go to find something to complain, I'm not the only one on this forum who was very superised by your pathetic reasons to leave them.

+1

I agree with everyone who says the OP's comments are somewhat ridiculous.

There are goods and bads about LY just like pretty much any airline.

I myself will be dropping to GL in one week from now but none of the OP's reasons were a consideration for me to travel less with LY. For me it was nearly all about price and a little about the comfort of the C seat in the lying position. As I told LY's customer retention person yesterday when she called, I'd be willing and happy to accept the somewhat inferior seat if their prices were competitive. I specifically told her that if they reduce the pricing of the cheapest C bucket fares and provide full business points (miles) on all of them I will seriously consider returning. She told me they are reviewing both issues and she will update me if there is a change.

I agree with everyone who says the OP's comments are somewhat ridiculous.

There are goods and bads about LY just like pretty much any airline.

I myself will be dropping to GL in one week from now but none of the OP's reasons were a consideration for me to travel less with LY. For me it was nearly all about price and a little about the comfort of the C seat in the lying position. As I told LY's customer retention person yesterday when she called, I'd be willing and happy to accept the somewhat inferior seat if their prices were competitive. I specifically told her that if they reduce the pricing of the cheapest C bucket fares and provide full business points (miles) on all of them I will seriously consider returning. She told me they are reviewing both issues and she will update me if there is a change.

+1. My biggest gripes with LY are the non-competetiveness on price and hard product, as well as the way they deal with their fleet. Although I've noticed their prices at peak travel time to be fairly competitive with CO in Y, non-peak travel, as well as F/C always just aren't. Add to that the seat in F/C, and generally IFE. Plus them constantly buying older a/c and not getting new ones, dropping orders for 787s...

+1. My biggest gripes with LY are the non-competetiveness on price and hard product, as well as the way they deal with their fleet. Although I've noticed their prices at peak travel time to be fairly competitive with CO in Y, non-peak travel, as well as F/C always just aren't. Add to that the seat in F/C, and generally IFE. Plus them constantly buying older a/c and not getting new ones, dropping orders for 787s...

+1

The OP has the right to rant or feel in his eyes that ELAL services are not up to par based on his expectations. Evidently he's a pretty loyal customer and i would suggest before leaving ELAL altogether would be to get in touch with CR or someone higher up (being TPL i would assume gives you some clout) to communicate his frustrations.

If ELAL turn round to him and say - that's just the way things are (which based on most of his frustrations) will undoubtedly be the case, then i would suggest - as i did 12 years ago, to 'move on' from this airline and start a fresh.

In regards to LH i can guarantee you 100% they'll' match you to Senetor based on being TPL with a copy of your last 12 months travel to back it up. From there you'll hit HON within 18 months. Just email or call and explain your circumstances of being a loyal customer for X amount of years flying X amount of flights etc.

Good Luck.

The OP has the right to rant or feel in his eyes that ELAL services are not up to par based on his expectations. Evidently he's a pretty loyal customer and i would suggest before leaving ELAL altogether would be to get in touch with CR or someone higher up (being TPL i would assume gives you some clout) to communicate his frustrations.

If ELAL turn round to him and say - that's just the way things are (which based on most of his frustrations) will undoubtedly be the case, then i would suggest - as i did 12 years ago, to 'move on' from this airline and start a fresh.

In regards to LH i can guarantee you 100% they'll' match you to Senetor based on being TPL with a copy of your last 12 months travel to back it up. From there you'll hit HON within 18 months. Just email or call and explain your circumstances of being a loyal customer for X amount of years flying X amount of flights etc.

Good Luck.

No one's saying OP can't be upset or leave LY :confused:

The OP has the right to rant or feel in his eyes that ELAL services are not up to par based on his expectations. Evidently he's a pretty loyal customer and i would suggest before leaving ELAL altogether would be to get in touch with CR or someone higher up (being TPL i would assume gives you some clout) to communicate his frustrations.


Of course the OP has a right. But others can have opinions and they too have a right to express them even if they are not in agreement with the OP - that's to some extent the whole point of these forums.

As I said in an earlier post above, I agree in principle that LY has some major issues to address, hence my dropping now from PL to GL due to transferring business elsewhere. The point I made as did some others is that in our opinion the OP's reasons are minor compared to the main issues LY has which are uncompetitive pricing and the quality of the hard product in C (and probably also in F).

i will write about it as soon as i get to senator, i will write about my expirience with this company, i will write about evrything.

I have no experience of LY but don't expect much as a Senator. Being HON is a completely different matter especially in TLV and FRA, but not so much in ZRH.

My time to answer, And no, I dont work for EL-AL, Just flying with them for 20 years, as GL, PL and TPL since it was introduced (i think 4 years ago).


1) why do you have to use so much the PA system? why do you have to announce everything in 3 different languages? why can't you be a little bit quiet??

Being able to fly with others companies i dont find EL-AL using the PA more than others, PA done in few languages (Hebrew,English and the Local Language where you departed/depart to) - KLM Does it from Israel, If i am not wrong Iberia and i have seen this elsewhere in the world...
Regarding ALUT every airline have its own donation program, BA have the Red Nose donation (where before movies start they play something about it and also PA it (twice in some flights)...
So you might find a company that doesnt do that, But many others does...



2) why do you use such small aircraft's (737)? why can't we have a normal business class??

EL-AL is a small company, This is what they can invest, this is not something new, it has been like that for years... You noticed it right now? 8-)
The Business class is not that bad on 737, And that from someone that is a little bit big comparing to other humans in business class...


3) why do you have to sale duty free at 3 AM? why can't you just turn off the lights and let us get some rest?

Its forbidden to move in with the Duty Free card to business class, If this occur you can report, I fly a "bit" and normally during end of dinner i am being asked if i want anything from the duty free...
The only time the card can go into the Duty Free is if its located in the front and have to go to economy via business class.
I assume you take aisle seat if this disturb you too much...


4) why is the steward so annoying, why can't he even say hello to a TP?

Check your after-shave... I have no reason why they dont say hello to you,
I am being greeted 90% of the times in a way sometimes i prefer to avoid it (purser and fa comes, introduce themself, shake my hand, tell me that i am very important, and that they are on plane for any request i have (Johnnie, Not what you think!).


5) why do you have to wake-us up 45 minutes before landing? why do you need us to straight our seat 45 minute before landing? why do you need to collect the news papers before landing?

Agree on that, Shkedi promised on last meeting this will change and it will be reduced...


6) why when the steward wants to sale duty free items the captain turn the seat-belt sign on?

Never noticed that, will try from now, but i think this is a poor excuse...


7) why do you have so many delays? why do you always say it's the aircraft fault because he arrived late :-(

Due to late arrival, not because of aircraft fault - Try to be accurate,
And the captain will normally will say what was the reason for later arrival
like mechanical problem, airport issues and so on...


I will Join LiorM, I Fly EL-AL because many other reasons, and its not because i am zionist or because the (un)amazing security they have or the planes...
EL-AL biggest asset is that its a small company, Where as a TPL you should know most of the people (or they know you) and the crew there...
They are doing above and beyond, And yes, I also have crazy requests i wouldnt dare or try to ask other airlines i fly (Johnnie, Relax again!)
from FAs to Security/Luggage and so on...

To tell you EL-AL doesnt mess things? They do... And since i fly with them more than with others, they do it a bit often then others, But again out of 12 flights i did with BA in 10 days, on 4 of them the Video system on my seat was dead...

And to be a TPL, you need 25 flights in Business or 50 flights in Economy
in Europe, or less for US/Asia its not hard getting TPL when you are a road warrior...

Anyway, Its your decision to quit or not, But the reasons given are really poor, Its not that they happen on one single day, Its was always like that...
Its not like they lost you a luggage with 30k$ worth of equipment which might be a reason to be so pissed off (like i am right now!)

Ebzed...

i will write about it as soon as i get to senator, i will write about my expirience with this company, i will write about evrything.

I have no experience of LY but don't expect much as a Senator. Being HON is a completely different matter especially in TLV and FRA, but not so much in ZRH.
Why would HON be so great in TLV, and why any better than ZRH?

ebzed, as always, great insight :)

Why would HON be so great in TLV, and why any better than ZRH?
Here's an account (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/16867457-post466.html) of HON service in TLV, probably more useful for non-Israeli passport holders.

Unlike FRA and MUC, there's no pickup service for HON arriving at a remote apron position in ZRH. On departure they will drive you from the First Class Lounge to Pier E for longhaul flights (including TLV) but they'll just leave you at the bottom of the elevator by one of the side entrances. Depending on your destination you may have to go through additional security despite the fact you cleared security 10 mins earlier on your way from the lounge to a waiting car.

This may sounds trivial but there doesn't seem to be the same level of service to HON and First Class passengers in ZRH that you find in FRA and MUC. The ease of clearing security and passport control is the major advantage of the First Class Terminal in FRA and the First Class Lounge in MUC respectively, but there is no similar arrangement in ZRH.

Here's an account (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/16867457-post466.html) of HON service in TLV, probably more useful for non-Israeli passport holders.

Unlike FRA and MUC, there's no pickup service for HON arriving at a remote apron position in ZRH. On departure they will drive you from the First Class Lounge to Pier E for longhaul flights (including TLV) but they'll just leave you at the bottom of the elevator by one of the side entrances. Depending on your destination you may have to go through additional security despite the fact you cleared security 10 mins earlier on your way from the lounge to a waiting car.

This may sounds trivial but there doesn't seem to be the same level of service to HON and First Class passengers in ZRH that you find in FRA and MUC. The ease of clearing security and passport control is the major advantage of the First Class Terminal in FRA and the First Class Lounge in MUC respectively, but there is no similar arrangement in ZRH.

Interesting that service would be better at TLV, an outstation, than at ZRH, a hub (for M&M)

ebzed, as always, great insight :)
+1

ebzed, as always, great insight :)

Took the words out of my mouth, great post Ebzed!

(Johnnie, Not what you think!).

Hey, I didn't say anything! :D


Its not like they lost you a luggage with 30k$ worth of equipment which might be a reason to be so pissed off (like i am right now!)


Off-topic, I know, but did they find it?

Hey, I didn't say anything! :D
Off-topic, I know, but did they find it?

After 5 Days, It will be delivered to me tomorrow, Lets see in what condition,
My problem is not with loosing it, But the way they did it...
On 1st Security Check i notified them about the box, and that if they need to open it or inspect the content, they should call me from the lounge so we can do it correctly and pack it again as needed, Security guy admitted he is my borhter ("Ach Sheli") and told me not to worry.

In the check-in counter, They double tagged it, put lots of Business stickers on it so it wont get lost and told me that for safety i should take it to security and let them know again, So i did and found another person, higher
rank admitting he is my brother, He inspected the box so all tags and business stickers, and put it aside, telling me, Its his personl responsibility that no one will open the box and that i will get it on time.. Dont Worry!

Lounge confirmed everything ok with the Box (asked security), On Boarding my first new borther, Move his head in an "Its OK" gesture, the second brother near the airplane enterance do the universal Ok sign with the hand...

This is the time i understood i wont get it on time! 8-)
But such things can occur on every airline!

Hilarious post ebzed , keep 'em coming! :)
On a side note, as I understand this happened in Chul, you maybe could
have contacted the Station Manager as well - Had a similar situation in the SXF station a week ago and worked like a charm

Hilarious post ebzed , keep 'em coming! :)
On a side note, as I understand this happened in Chul, you maybe could
have contacted the Station Manager as well - Had a similar situation in the SXF station a week ago and worked like a charm

Contacted the Station Manager, The JFK Terminal 4 Lost and Found... Everyone... But considering Irene was also in the middle and 2 days JFK was closed, the time took to solve this was ok...

EL-AL, Expect the best, plan for the worst, and prepare to be surprised! 8-)

EL-AL, Expect the best, plan for the worst, and prepare to be surprised! 8-)

That's the best line!

Hope everything works out with it

Promised to pay attention for some of the things the shaq323 wrote...
So far, 5 Legs since what he wrote and:
1. No Seat Belt sign during Duty Free
2. Was personally apporached by the Crew for TPL Greeting
3. No Duty Free cart in business, During Lunch/Dinner i was asked if i want something from duty free...
4. 3 Languages used on flight to Spain, Italy, France, In flight to UK only 2,
I Believe this is perfect for Italian with bad English and Hebrew...


Again, If he want to move somewhere else, Good Luck, but the reasons he wrote are bad ones! There are much better reasons to quit flying EL-AL... 8-)

Two reasons which are not such ones:
Airport X - While the security guy approach me and say "Hello, I am x from Security", The Check-in lady (which recgonized while walking to security runs to me, greet me and give me boarding pass, loung invetation while the security guy even didnt started to ask me one question....
Not to mention that after his "wow what a service!" sentence and before putting out another word for the question his walky talky device tell him "Leave him alone, He is cleared"
I was at this airport maybe 4 or 5 times in the past 6 months... not that much!

Airport Y - Flight back home is 3 days ahead, but i decided to come back early, The problem i decided it 3 hours before the EL-AL flight that day, arrive 55 minutes before departure (10 minutes to close of check-in), Explained the situation to the station manager and the fact i am TPL, Got boarding with not further questions,
Security guy was called to quickly process me, And then the station manager himself
walked all the way with me from Check-In to the Plane (lucky me, airport security line was full!), make sure i am seated and i get a glass of water...

So yes, The messed my luggage last week, and took them 5 days to deliver it to me, which caused me some issues, but i am looking on the overal picture...
Nothing in life is perfect... Even Me!

Just flew LX254. Announcements were never in only 1 language. Most were in at least German and English. Some had German, English, and French. A couple had German, French, and Spanish. 1 announcement had all 4!

And don't forget the Hebrew that was there for takeoff procedure, safety, flight rules (don't use F/C bathroom...), landing...

In good mood so, you probably know or not:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWhHpjZfTik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoudGh-AzHQ&feature=fvsr

I wonder if el-al will ever do something like this how it would look... 8-)

In good mood so, you probably know or not:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWhHpjZfTik

Oh dear lord! :eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoudGh-AzHQ&feature=fvsr

Loved this one! :D

Though I'm not so sure any of the actual safety info was conveyed

I wonder if el-al will ever do something like this how it would look... 8-)

More likely, it would like the tour guide the Simpsons had when they went to Israel...which is what it looks like now anyways ;)

Just flew LX254. Announcements were never in only 1 language. Most were in at least German and English. Some had German, English, and French. A couple had German, French, and Spanish. 1 announcement had all 4!

And don't forget the Hebrew that was there for takeoff procedure, safety, flight rules (don't use F/C bathroom...), landing...

did TLV-ZRH on 10/24 in C, its nice and beats ANY A320 or 737 , OK its was the afternoon flight so need to sleep but even if was the 4am flight by the time you can turn it into a bed and they make you get ready for landing maybe you can score 3 hrs sleep, but boy they dont shut up with those PA announcements!

really bad is the LOUSY lounge in Term E where you go into and out of, btw did I mention how bad the lounge is @ ZRH in Term E. LH is a total waste although FRA has some great lounges

I understand the OP very well and if I was TLV based Id probably be in a dilema myself. Id probably go with who has flights when I want them, since 4 hrs isnt 12 hrs like to NY But only LH,LX and BA fly widebodys year round to/from TLV and Europe, out of those 3 BA Wins hands down but that would mean having to connect and fly a A320, so LX is the best of those 3 especially if the OPs company is ZRH based

did TLV-ZRH on 10/24 in C, its nice and beats ANY A320 or 737 , OK its was the afternoon flight so need to sleep but even if was the 4am flight by the time you can turn it into a bed and they make you get ready for landing maybe you can score 3 hrs sleep, but boy they dont shut up with those PA announcements!

really bad is the LOUSY lounge in Term E where you go into and out of, btw did I mention how bad the lounge is @ ZRH in Term E. LH is a total waste although FRA has some great lounges

I understand the OP very well and if I was TLV based Id probably be in a dilema myself. Id probably go with who has flights when I want them, since 4 hrs isnt 12 hrs like to NY But only LH,LX and BA fly widebodys year round to/from TLV and Europe, out of those 3 BA Wins hands down but that would mean having to connect and fly a A320, so LX is the best of those 3 especially if the OPs company is ZRH based

Panorama Lounge isn't too bad when your connection is only 1 hour, and all you need is a cup of coffee and WiFi :)

Why would you need to connect to an A320 by flying BA?

Finally, my point is that the OP complained about many languages being used, and argues that that's not the case on other airlines. Just showing again that it is indeed the case on other airlines

Finally, my point is that the OP complained about many languages being used, and argues that that's not the case on other airlines. Just showing again that it is indeed the case on other airlines

I Think the OP simply try to convince himself with poor excuses why he need to "leave" EL-AL, I can think about 100 good reasons to leave EL-AL, but for sure not what he mentioned....

(BTW: Air Maroco does Marocan, English and French)

Also he still goes EL-AL sometimes... But shhh..

I Think the OP simply try to convince himself with poor excuses why he need to "leave" EL-AL, I can think about 100 good reasons to leave EL-AL, but for sure not what he mentioned....

(BTW: Air Maroco does Marocan, English and French)

Also he still goes EL-AL sometimes... But shhh..

I've never been on a CO flight that only does one language (though I guess their flights to the UK are only in English.) Even their domestic flights have English and Spanish.

I Think the OP simply try to convince himself with poor excuses why he need to "leave" EL-AL, I can think about 100 good reasons to leave EL-AL, but for sure not what he mentioned....

(BTW: Air Maroco does Marocan, English and French)

Also he still goes EL-AL sometimes... But shhh..

Haven't been on the forum for some time but decided to stop by to see what's going on.

You're right - there are good reasons to leave but none of the OP's reasons are such.

Amazingly, I haven't stepped on an LY plane for a whole 6 months now. I'm a lowly GL now but will probably be down to SL by the end of next summer. It's a shame to lose the benefits but they are hardly of any use if I don't fly with LY (except for use of KD lounge in TLV instead of the somewhat dismal Dan lounges). I'll probably use up the rest of my LY points for a summer holiday with the family and may fly once with LY this year (because I need to be in California early on a Sunday morning and do not want to leave before the weekend).

Well LY has only lost about $30K annual business from me which I suppose is not that much within the context of their annual revenue. That said, profit margin on my tickets was probably relatively high and I suppose I am not alone in deciding to move business elsewhere.

I hope LY improves on the real things it needs to improve which are pricing (particularly in C) and hard product quality. From the overall service I was very pleased. If they improve both of those I will be back for sure.

In the meantime BA are getting most of my business.

Haven't been on the forum for some time but decided to stop by to see what's going on.

You're right - there are good reasons to leave but none of the OP's reasons are such.

Amazingly, I haven't stepped on an LY plane for a whole 6 months now. I'm a lowly GL now but will probably be down to SL by the end of next summer. It's a shame to lose the benefits but they are hardly of any use if I don't fly with LY (except for use of KD lounge in TLV instead of the somewhat dismal Dan lounges). I'll probably use up the rest of my LY points for a summer holiday with the family and may fly once with LY this year (because I need to be in California early on a Sunday morning and do not want to leave before the weekend).

Well LY has only lost about $30K annual business from me which I suppose is not that much within the context of their annual revenue. That said, profit margin on my tickets was probably relatively high and I suppose I am not alone in deciding to move business elsewhere.

I hope LY improves on the real things it needs to improve which are pricing (particularly in C) and hard product quality. From the overall service I was very pleased. If they improve both of those I will be back for sure.

In the meantime BA are getting most of my business.

I'm with you 100% on this one. Although your $30K may not mean much, that's the kind of passenger airlines look for, and if more people like you leave, LY feels it.

LY needs major improvements across the board, from their hard products, to their planes, their website, MATMID!!... If they do, I'd shift all my travel back to them in a heartbeat.

well, with LH canceling some flights to TLV in jan-mar, and with birthright they seem to be busy.
To have real change, they will need to see their profits take a dive and a mgmt change..and even then, Im not clear what can be done.
What I do find interesting is that it is possible to have a service oriented company and do well in Israel. Dan Hotels and Eldan, though both not perfect, are above par some of the my other experiences I have had world wide..

Double check on that one, because M&M do have award miles and bonus miles.

Actually they do... Both those for class and for status, but the number of 35 flights per year just get you the first Elite level, Frequent Flyer.