Hawaii-based Airlines - HA 7 Incident 8/18/11

Yesterday, there was an incident on Hawaiian flight 7 from LAS to HNL. I am going to omit seat numbers.

We are 45 minutes late and they have already told us where to go to make interisland connections. I am a resident and need to make to make a connecting flight with no delay.

I was in the bulkhead seat just behind 1st and I could see one guy who may not have been a frequent flyer I'll call him Mr Baker. Nothing much happened until about 10 minutes to landing in Honolulu. We were putting up tray taables and stowing items when I saw Mr Baker lean down perhaps to move his carryon items under the seat in front of him.

All of a sudden the guy beside him (Mr Adams) jumps up and hollers "What are you doing to my bag?" or words to that effect. Adams stands and grabs Bakers shoulder and I suspect there will be a fist fight. Baker looks to have no clue what is happening and the commotion continues. My first reaction is that Adams had been drinking and Baker accidently touched his bag, however I could not see Adams during the flight.

No crew is there yet and I unbuckle my seat belt and start heading to Baker to see if I can encourage him to the aisle until a stewardess can get there. Just as I rise, help comes. The stewardess talks to both of them for a minute and they sit down. Baker turns to Adams and seems to appologize and then looks to the side away from the guy for a minute, then turns again to say someting. I'm saying to my seatmate that Baker needs to just keep quiet and let Adams cool down.

We knew it was coming and sure enough "Attention Ladies and Gentlemen, there has been a gate change." We wait a minute or two and sure enough, "and when we land, we will be using only the front exit and please remain in your seats even after the airplane door has been opened".

Within a minute or two the 1st class door opens and in come a number of Police Officers (I believe Honolulu Police). As Adams and Baker stand up, I notice that now Adams has a badge on and I suspect he may be a regular plain-clothes officer or perhaps a Marshall. I now suspect there was a gun in the bag in question.

Whether Adams over-reacted or made the commotion to alert flight crew I don't know. I was one of the first off the plane and police and the two were in the waiting area discussing things.

I ran to the interisland and was able to catch my connecting flight to Kona just as they closed the doors.

Sitting in coach? Doubt it was a FAM.

Sitting in coach? Doubt it was a FAM.
Both the guys were in first. I was not, I was in bulkhead behind. I believe the craft is a 330 airbus.

If the gun was indeed in the bag and not on his person, I doubt it'd be a FAM but maybe just a LEO.

...what happens in vegas... wait does it count if it happens inflight from vegas :p

Glad it seems to have worked out- and guess you made your connection ok :-:

If the gun was indeed in the bag and not on his person, I doubt it'd be a FAM but maybe just a LEO.

Do you think the captain would allow an unsecured weapon in the cabin?

-David

Do you think the captain would allow an unsecured weapon in the cabin?

-David
Captain can only make decisions based on information he knows... Who knew what the captain knew other than that this person was armed...?

Captain can only make decisions based on information he knows... Who knew what the captain knew other than that this person was armed...?

I don't think so, for a non-FAM. Weapons would have to be checked and cannot be in carry ons. The captain has final say over any of this on his/her plane and would certainly know.

If you were the captain, would you allow unsecured weapons in the cabin? Too many things could go wrong.

-David

Sitting in coach? Doubt it was a FAM.FAM's do ride in coach

If the gun was indeed in the bag and not on his person, I doubt it'd be a FAM but maybe just a LEO.Agreed

Do you think the captain would allow an unsecured weapon in the cabin?

-DavidCaptain can only make decisions based on information he knows... Who knew what the captain knew other than that this person was armed...?I agree. If not a FAM who needs to have the weapon on their person, it could simply be a LEO flying armed.

I don't think so, for a non-FAM. Weapons would have to be checked and cannot be in carry ons. The captain has final say over any of this on his/her plane and would certainly know.

If you were the captain, would you allow unsecured weapons in the cabin? Too many things could go wrong.

-DavidI'm not sure about that as other than a FAM, I think the Captain simply has to know who is "flying while carrying" and what seat they are in so they can inform the f/a's. As to the unsecured weapon part, you are 100% correct.

I don't think so, for a non-FAM. Weapons would have to be checked and cannot be in carry ons. The captain has final say over any of this on his/her plane and would certainly know.

A. Local/State/Fed's fly armed all the time..... FAMS aren't the only ones that fly armed...... Its a very, very easy process......if you have the need to do so (at least for State/Local).

B. I'd go with a Local or Fed flying armed due to the fact we've had a huge influx of LEOs out here due to Asian Pacific Conference rapidly approaching.....and had it been a FAM....he'd have a partner floating around somewhere....

C. Local/State/Feds don't fly in partners (for the most part). Though, I flew armed out of MCI once and we had 20 IRS Special Agents flying on my same flight to a conference......

Do you think the captain would allow an unsecured weapon in the cabin?

The Captain is generally not going to know how a LEO carries their firearm, although it would seem to me a backup weapon would be in a ankle holster, not in a carryon under the seat. Technically they could deny boarding to an armed LEO, but I would imagine they will find themselves standing tall before The Man in the Chief Pilot's Office to explain their decision.

Yesterday, there was an incident on Hawaiian flight 7 from LAS to HNL. I am going to omit seat numbers.

We are 45 minutes late and they have already told us where to go to make interisland connections. I am a resident and need to make to make a connecting flight with no delay.

I was in the bulkhead seat just behind 1st and I could see one guy who may not have been a frequent flyer I'll call him Mr Baker. Nothing much happened until about 10 minutes to landing in Honolulu. We were putting up tray taables and stowing items when I saw Mr Baker lean down perhaps to move his carryon items under the seat in front of him.

All of a sudden the guy beside him (Mr Adams) jumps up and hollers "What are you doing to my bag?" or words to that effect. Adams stands and grabs Bakers shoulder and I suspect there will be a fist fight. Baker looks to have no clue what is happening and the commotion continues. My first reaction is that Adams had been drinking and Baker accidently touched his bag, however I could not see Adams during the flight.

No crew is there yet and I unbuckle my seat belt and start heading to Baker to see if I can encourage him to the aisle until a stewardess can get there. Just as I rise, help comes. The stewardess talks to both of them for a minute and they sit down. Baker turns to Adams and seems to appologize and then looks to the side away from the guy for a minute, then turns again to say someting. I'm saying to my seatmate that Baker needs to just keep quiet and let Adams cool down.

We knew it was coming and sure enough "Attention Ladies and Gentlemen, there has been a gate change." We wait a minute or two and sure enough, "and when we land, we will be using only the front exit and please remain in your seats even after the airplane door has been opened".

Within a minute or two the 1st class door opens and in come a number of Police Officers (I believe Honolulu Police). As Adams and Baker stand up, I notice that now Adams has a badge on and I suspect he may be a regular plain-clothes officer or perhaps a Marshall. I now suspect there was a gun in the bag in question.

Whether Adams over-reacted or made the commotion to alert flight crew I don't know. I was one of the first off the plane and police and the two were in the waiting area discussing things.

I ran to the interisland and was able to catch my connecting flight to Kona just as they closed the doors.

Sounds like you weren't the only FT poster on the plane.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/1249541-over-top-hawaiian-airlines-air-marshal-goes-medieval-impaired-passenger.html

Sounds like you weren't the only FT poster on the plane.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/1249541-over-top-hawaiian-airlines-air-marshal-goes-medieval-impaired-passenger.html

After reading some of the comments over on the other thread, the quiet guy in 3G is not the only one who got beaten up a bit. :-)

A. Local/State/Fed's fly armed all the time..... FAMS aren't the only ones that fly armed...... Its a very, very easy process......if you have the need to do so (at least for State/Local).

B. I'd go with a Local or Fed flying armed due to the fact we've had a huge influx of LEOs out here due to Asian Pacific Conference rapidly approaching.....and had it been a FAM....he'd have a partner floating around somewhere....

C. Local/State/Feds don't fly in partners (for the most part). Though, I flew armed out of MCI once and we had 20 IRS Special Agents flying on my same flight to a conference......

Thanks for the info. I didn't know any of that (also my bruddah Goalie Dave, Slippahs, N965VJ and everybody else that knew more about this than me.)

Can the weapon be unsecured in a carry on bag? That's what seemed odd to me. That would be a primary safety issue. Why would anybody do that and why would it be permitted?

I'm not sure I want to ask when LEOs have the need to be armed on a flight. Is there any special training one needs to get to be armed on a commercial flight?

Unfortunately, the other thread over in TSS is like most threads I have read over there.

-David

Thanks for the info. I didn't know any of that (also my bruddah Goalie Dave, Slippahs, N965VJ and everybody else that knew more about this than me.)

Can the weapon be unsecured in a carry on bag? That's what seemed odd to me. That would be a primary safety issue. Why would anybody do that and why would it be permitted?

I'm not sure I want to ask when LEOs have the need to be armed on a flight. Is there any special training one needs to get to be armed on a commercial flight?

Unfortunately, the other thread over in TSS is like most threads I have read over there.

-David

I was a bit scared when I ventured over there due to the link. They need some pineapples or poke to cheer them up :D

:cool: to hear another perspective on the same incident.

Sitting in coach? Doubt it was a FAM.

why would u doubt that........ they can be anywhere

I don't think so, for a non-FAM. Weapons would have to be checked and cannot be in carry ons. The captain has final say over any of this on his/her plane and would certainly know.

If you were the captain, would you allow unsecured weapons in the cabin? Too many things could go wrong.

-David

Not entirely true.

A family member of mine is an FBI agent (not a FAM). He routinely brings his weapon on board with him. To your point, I know that he always speaks to the captain (and I presume the captain has the right to say no). But in the half a dozen times I've travelled with him, he's had it in his bag on the floor in front of him (never in the over head bin).

But in the half a dozen times I've travelled with him, he's had it in his bag on the floor in front of him (never in the over head bin).

Is it secured with a trigger lock mechanism, or just sitting in the bag on the floor loaded and ready to be fired? If it's not secured with some sort of trigger lock mechanism that's just asking for trouble in my own personal opinion.

-David