Aer Lingus Gold Circle Club - Aer Lingus may restart flights to US west coast

source: The Irish Times (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2011/0815/1224302449729.html?via=mr)

AER LINGUS is in talks with four airports in California about possibly re-establishing a route from Dublin to the west coast of the US.

It is understood that Aer Lingus is in discussions with airports in San Francisco, San José, Oakland and Los Angeles about operating a year-round service.

Such a service would not begin until March 2012 at the earliest.

Aer Lingus is also believed to have had talks recently with the Dublin Airport Authority about adding to its long-haul services from here, which include flights from Dublin to New York, Boston, and Chicago, and a seasonal service to Orlando, Florida.

A spokesman for Aer Lingus confirmed that such a move is being considered by the airline.

“We are evaluating a number of options and we expect to conclude those evaluations shortly,” he said.

This will include assessing the feasibility of operating the service all year around.

While there is likely to be demand from business travellers, it is not clear if there would be sufficient traffic from tourists during the winter months to make the service profitable for Aer Lingus.

California is the top connecting destination for flights out of Dublin Airport, with San Francisco and Los Angeles separately among the top five.

Aer Lingus pulled its Dublin to San Francisco route in October 2009 along with other services to the US to stem mounting losses.

But changes to working practices agreed in recent deals with staff should alter the economics of operating flights to the west coast.

The airline currently offers indirect services to the west coast through code-sharing deals with United Airlines and Jet Blue.

Aer Lingus carried 96,000 passengers on routes to the US in July, down 3 per cent year on year.

Recent figures for Dublin Airport show that transatlantic traffic to north America – the US and Canada – grew by 7 per cent in June and by 8 per cent in July.

Travel has been boosted by the addition of flights to Charlotte, North Carolina, by US Airways and by strong inbound traffic.

Establishing a connection to the west coast of America is something that Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar has called for since taking office earlier this year.

The Government is keen to cement links with US multinationals there, particularly IT companies in Silicon Valley.

A spokesman for the Department of Transport said Aer Lingus would be able to tap into a fund of about €8.5 million that has been set aside from the proceeds of the travel tax to promote air access.

In May, the US-based Irish Technology Leadership Group wrote to Taoiseach Enda Kenny and called for the re-establishment of the route.

It argued that it would be a “huge boost to the continuation and acceleration of economic links between Ireland and Silicon Valley”.

“The lack of a direct route makes this journey time consuming and frustrating, and could also be misinterpreted as a representation of Ireland declining rather than embracing its technology and ‘smart economy’ future,” the letter said.

It was signed by 63 business leaders, mayors and state agency chiefs on both side of the Atlantic.

Speaking to The Irish Times yesterday, John Hartnett, founder and president of the group, said: “We’re pushing to get it back. I think the opportunity and demand is there.”

Mr Hartnett said he has lobbied Aer Lingus board members on the issue and called for a decision to be made quickly.

“We need to push them to make a decision one way or the other.”

Look for SFO being the airport they choose.

I am not convinced that there really is a market for such a service in the way EI currently operate. They would have to market a California service more cleverly than before, i.e. in the US marketing seamless connections to mainland Europe and vice versa from Europe (especially now that the USPC is open), something they do very little.

They would also have to partner up strategically in the US, in SFO this would obviously have to be with UA. However now that UA have their own (CO) flights in in out of Ireland there might be less interest in doing so as CO already ferry significant west coast traffic through EWR. (And UA pilots/crew hate EI because of their outsourced IAD-MAD service).

The fact that EI does not belong to any alliance does not help either in this regard, UA frequent flyers get zero perks on EI.

There could be some business traffic but I think the Silicon Valley talk is just political hype. Irish-American communities are less pronounced in the west compared to BOS, JFK and ORD, so leisure travellers will have recruited more aggressively and that works usually via fares. Yes EI might get some route development cash but this would not be enough to sustain the route.

Well this was a short-lived summer news item then (http://www.thejournal.ie/aer-lingus-will-not-resume-flights-to-us-west-coast-201750-Aug2011/?utm_source=shortlink):

This afternoon, Aer Lingus confirmed to TheJournal.ie that there would be no return of any west coast destination next year, saying in a statement:

"Following a detailed analysis of the route potential, Aer Lingus has decided not to operate the route to the US west coast in Summer 2012. The analysis forecast significant losses."

The fact that EI does not belong to any alliance does not help either in this regard, UA frequent flyers get zero perks on EI.


Very true. EI has to compete with the loyalty programs of the US carriers. US based FF will most likely stick with a US carrier to Ireland.

EI will do best with pax originating in DUB and budget travelers. I'm just not sure if that's enough to maintain LAX or SFO flights.

They are either looking for more concessions from the Irish government or they have chickened out again , something tells me EI only know one way of making more money and that is cuts and not expansion , they will never learn and perhaps the sooner ryanair take them over the better, at least they have promised that EI will expand under their leadership

That's a pity. I did DUB-LAX on EI in 2006 and it was quite nice.

It would appear that the "business lobby" who fly the occasional DUB-SFO flight now have UA in their sight.

Today's Irish Times: (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2011/0819/1224302695232.html)

ONE MORE THING: WITH AER Lingus having decided, in its own unique way, that it won’t be relaunching a route from Dublin to the west coast of the United States next year, business leaders in Silicon Valley are preparing to turn their focus to alternative carriers.

John Hartnett, founder and president of the US-based Irish Technology Leadership Group, was “hugely disappointed” by Aer Lingus’s decision, and now intends to lobby United Continental hard about the route....

How they are expecting to fill a daily A 330 service (if it had been EI) both ways with 320 odd pax is anybody's guess. :confused:

It would appear that the "business lobby" who fly the occasional DUB-SFO flight now have UA in their sight.

Today's Irish Times: (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2011/0819/1224302695232.html)



How they are expecting to fill a daily A 330 service (if it had been EI) both ways with 320 odd pax is anybody's guess. :confused:

Agreed! There are 60 co-signatories to the letter to EK (Enda Kenny). I have no idea what mathematics they were using to suggest they were capable of supporting such a service.

How they are expecting to fill a daily A 330 service (if it had been EI) both ways with 320 odd pax is anybody's guess. :confused:

EI could use the 330-200s that seat 272. United/Continental could fly a 767 which in international configuration seats only 183. Or even better if United flew a domestic 767 they would get 234 cheap seats.

If we don't get it sooner I would bet we'll see west coast dublin flights return with the 787. It's exactly the kind of long thin route it was designed for.

The whole thing seems silly when Etihad flies a daily service to nowhere but the Aer Lingus can't make a service to SFO work.

EI should make a decision about joining alliance now.

Either oneworld or Star Alliance would do. As long as it is not the not-mentioned one.

I like rows 10 and 11 on the A330-300.

Is there any appetite to compete on preclearance?

EI should make a decision about joining alliance now.

Either oneworld or Star Alliance would do. As long as it is not the not-mentioned one.

The not-mentioned one would suit me just fine, too!

EI could use the 330-200s that seat 272. United/Continental could fly a 767 which in international configuration seats only 183. Or even better if United flew a domestic 767 they would get 234 cheap seats.

Well, the Irish Times reports that UA has now been approached by the "Deadly 60":

ONE MORE THING: WITH AER Lingus having decided, in its own unique way, that it won’t be relaunching a route from Dublin to the west coast of the United States next year, business leaders in Silicon Valley are preparing to turn their focus to alternative carriers.

John Hartnett, founder and president of the US-based Irish Technology Leadership Group, was “hugely disappointed” by Aer Lingus’s decision, and now intends to lobby United Continental hard about the route.

The newly merged US airline – now ranked as the world’s biggest carrier – currently operates year-round services from Dublin and Shannon to Continental’s hub in Newark, where a lot of Irish passengers then connect to flights to the west coast.

Hartnett said his group has already “reached out” to United Continental, but now intends to step up its lobbying effort.

“We probably now need to be more aggressive,” he told me.

“We need to concentrate our efforts on United Continental.”

When I contacted the US airline this week, it was coy about the possibility of starting up such a route.

When asked whether it could be viable for the airline, it said: “We do not have specific figures on the potential for this type of operation. Operating a west coast route poses particular challenges for any carrier.

“It requires more resources including fuel and is dependent on there being the right market size locally in order to make it viable.

“At United, we are in the business of being competitive and working to ensure that routes we serve are viable.”

So, it sounds as if Hartnett and his 60-odd co-signatories to a letter sent to Taoiseach Enda Kenny in May lobbying for the launch of a west coast air service will need to muster all their powers of persuasion if they are to land United Continental as a carrier.



The whole thing seems silly when Etihad flies a daily service to nowhere but the Aer Lingus can't make a service to SFO work.

I don't think that's a fair comparison. Etihad flights quite a lot of people onwards from AUH - Australia and New Zealand being the most obvious.

I don't think that's a fair comparison. Etihad flights quite a lot of people onwards from AUH - Australia and New Zealand being the most obvious.

And EI has the opportunity to fly quite a lot of people from the US to Europe. Ireland is well positioned to fly people US-second tier European cities...

And EI has the opportunity to fly quite a lot of people from the US to Europe. Ireland is well positioned to fly people US-second tier European cities...

Which they do - though perhaps they need to market it a little better.

and in fairness "first tier" destinations. They cover European capitals very well.

What EI really needs to do is heavily market preclearance and cheap J fares, because those are its main two features distinguishing it from the other main TATL players.

What EI really needs to do is heavily market preclearance and cheap J fares, because those are its main two features distinguishing it from the other main TATL players.

EI are not that much cheaper than the competition ex DUB - only if you are booking well in advance, when they are somewhat cheaper - on that I would agree. Otherwise, they can in fact still work out to be more expensive. All that said, fares have really come down from their peaks and are now at equilibrium with the product offering and the general state of the economy.

EI needs to undertake a major overhaul of the Business Class product marketing in general - but there seems to be a continuous lack of effort or perhaps will in doing so.

On the issue of Pre-Clearance, they seem to be marketing this to an extent, but more aggressive marketing is needed to attract more pax from Europe in general, as opposed to an over reliance on the UK market. This will be key in maintaining any profitability on Transatlantic routes during the depths of the winter season.

EI Premier

I can agree with that. I have never flown TATL with anyone other than EI, incredibly (and have a passport littered with USCBP stamps), but why fly J if you can get 10HK :)

EI needs to undertake a major overhaul of the Business Class product marketing in general - but there seems to be a continuous lack of effort or perhaps will in doing so.


EI needs to improve their service, come back to OW, and build some JV opportunities.

EI needs to improve their service, come back to OW, and build some JV opportunities.

I doubt OW will have them back due to the lack of shorthaul J and all the LCC trappings. And the only vaguely worthwhile bit is access to routes to Ireland, but IB, MA, and S7 already serve DUB and BA codeshares into DUB/ORK/SNN/BFS/NOC on the EI services. Beyond that EI is essentially point-to-point traffic within Europe, plus TATL traffic where the onward legs are tied up in codeshares with UA and B6 rather than AA.

Given this post in another thread:

Rumors over on a.net that EI may get some 330's next year from EY to cover expansion while waiting for the A350. Apparently YVR and SFO are on the list for future expansion.

I thought it better to resurrect this thread.

SFO would be the obvious destination if they were to recommence service to the West coast.

However, I have a hard time seeing them starting service to YVR. Despite their Air Canada tie-up last year, would there really be that much demand between Vancouver and Dublin? Though I suppose given that there is already a seasonal AC service to Toronto, and seasonal Air Transat services to Toronto and Montreal, it would be the best choice of unserved cities in Canada.

But surely there are many other cities in the US that would make more commercial sense before starting service to YVR...

I used the service very frequently out of SFO and was very sad to see it go. Since then I shifted my business to BA where I am now gold. I still have status with EI which expires in June, if I thought they were coming back I would try to maintain my status. It was great just having the one flight back to Dub.

I could (kind of) see a twisted/stretched logic in a Canadian destination. Canada has been resistant to letting the ME airlines expand. Etihad could funnel passengers via Dublin but I just can't see enough demand to make it work on that basis, and even combined with "normal" traffic.

SFO - this could work (given better circumstances than when they axed the route) especially if they codeshare with UA and codeshare on UA flights out of SFO to other destinations

Since the departure of BD from *A, EI could make connections between the US and a dozen or so second-tier UK+FR cities much easier.

I have to think that US preclearance at Dublin has to be attractive also. The time savings to business people would be huge.

I had an error in the previous post - YYZ and SFO are the two cities mentioned by EI as future destinations.

Lesson - be more careful when posting after a long flight :)

Ah, Toronto.

Just wondering how that would work out given that Air Canada already flies the route seasonally, and they signed an interline/codesharing deal with Aer Lingus last year:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/aer-lingus-gold-circle-club/1389874-ei-signs-interline-deal-air-canada-codeshares-follow.html

It would seem to make more sense for Air Canada to keep serving the route without having to get Aer Lingus involved (especially as EI doesn't currently really have the capacity to serve another long haul destination. Whether EY has the planes to lend, and whether EY will still be a shareholder after the EC's ruling on Ryanair's takeover bid, remains to be seen!!!).

It would seem to make more sense for Air Canada to keep serving the route without having to get Aer Lingus involved (especially as EI doesn't currently really have the capacity to serve another long haul destination. Whether EY has the planes to lend, and whether EY will still be a shareholder after the EC's ruling on Ryanair's takeover bid, remains to be seen!!!).

Well they don't have anti-trust immunity so interline agreement or not they can't coordinate schedules like that.

AC probably would be happy to be rid of this route. They fly it in the summer on an all-economy plane because they see it as a vacation route with few business travelers.

They were experimenting with a normal config plane and rumours they were considering making it year-round. But in the meantime they've started up a "low-cost" longhaul carrier "Rouge" and while it doesn't go to Dublin yet it's likely next on the list when they get more ghetto planes for it.

If they had received their 787s by now the result might have been different. But as it is EI is probably better positioned to fly to YYZ. They would then be able to sell codeshares onto other Canadian cities and even to US cities. (Though I note despite the article I haven't seen any codeshares being marketed yet between these two)

Well they don't have anti-trust immunity so interline agreement or not they can't coordinate schedules like that.


What I mentioned doesn't require any co-ordination of schedules.

All they need to do is slap on an EI code on the Air Canada flight, and a few more EI codes on flights from YYZ to other destinations in Canada (they probably don't need to codeshare on flights into the US, as they appear to be covered in that regard with JetBlue and United, who they also don't coordinate schedules with).

On this side of the Atlantic, Air Canada could just slap its code on those EI short-haul flights from Dublin that it is interested in.

Today's SBP:

Aer Lingus has submitted a proposal to US tech companies based in Ireland to scope out interest in and financial commitment to a new regular service to San Francisco or San Jose in California....

Good luck with getting financial commitment. Then again if Google can charter three aircraft for a sales conference to ship staff from DUB to LAS as they did two weeks ago...

Good luck with getting financial commitment.

It might be easier than you think.

A number of firms signed up with Delta to get, and keep, the PDX-AMS service running.

More of it today: http://www.breakingnews.ie/business/aer-lingus-mulling-san-francisco-route-593244.html