Alitalia MilleMiglia - GRU-FCO in Magnifica?

Has anyone flown this route lately? AZ shows a 772...how are the C seats?
Thanks!

Still the old seats which are not the top of the AZ fleet, in fact the B777 fleet will be refurbished within the start of the next summer season to install the new flat-bed type ones. Service should be of the now-usual high quality however.

the start of the next summer season
I remember this Autumn/Winter

Lie flat seats on 777 that I find perfectly comfortable. Would advise either row 2 or row 3 L and J
Not near bathroom, first to be served and in more private front cabin

Just back from JFK on a 777 in J and I confirm that in my view the seats are still more confortable than many other planes

Flatbeds aside I find the 777 seat very wide - I find it easy to turn and eating is very confortable... Certainly an old style seat but it works fine for me

Btw - catering excellent this month with Friuli Venezia Giulia + Sardegna the regions for the menu / wine list

I remember this Autumn/Winter

Yes, so they'll be finished by March, in time for the summer season.

Yes, so they'll be finished by March, in time for the summer season.

Sorry I misunderstood your previous post

Still the old seats which are not the top of the AZ fleet, in fact the B777 fleet will be refurbished within the start of the next summer season to install the new flat-bed type ones. Service should be of the now-usual high quality however.

Yes, AZ cabin crews can be quite bad.

Yes, AZ cabin crews can be quite bad.

"Yes", where in fact you are contradicting the previous poster?

Also, AZ cabin crews in Magnifica are usually excellent. Have you ever flown AZ in the last 3 years?

There is a difference of opinion on this but the OP should know that It is the opinion of many flyers, often forced to fly AZ due to lack of choice or cost, that the service in business continues to be weak. In my experience ( 6 sectors this year) vastly inferior to BA and LH. ( I speak of long haul not done intra Europe with AZ)
They also have a lot of old and broken aircraft some excellent new cabins too... Not sure if GRU is now served by better equipment but last January they flew a very shabby plane.

often forced to fly AZ due to lack of choice or cost

:confused:

:confused:

Company rules must fly cheapest business class plus or minus 15 per cent so if AZ is cheapest JFK-CAI in the above parameters then must fly AZ

not so bad rathin! You could be flying an even worse airline (lots of those from here in Melbourne!)

not so bad rathin! You could be flying an even worse airline (lots of those from here in Melbourne!)

I agree. As I said the seat and ambience of the new aircraft in business are excellent. I am just not sure what they operate out of GRU nowadays. In January the aircraft seats were fixed with duct tape. If the new aircraft are in operation I would give it serious consideration as the seats are superior to TAM, the other direct operator to Italy, (albeit to Milan AZ goes direct to Rome I think)

But if you are expecting good service, my opinion is that service is better on BA TAM LH SWISS and sub-par on Alitalia. The food is much of a muchness as any Business class but better than some BA services unless you are a special afficionado of Italian cuisine in which case AZ is obviously better. And then you have hassles as mentioned by other posters with transit, ground service etc. But I dont really think this matters as much on a point to point so with the new aircraft, AZ should be fine.

This route is currently not operating with the new aircraft, however. The 777 operating on it will be refurbished during this winter season so it will have the new cabin after that, by the S12.

In my experience ( 6 sectors this year) vastly inferior to BA and LH. ( I speak of long haul not done intra Europe with AZ)


Was that the famous sci-fi experience where they served you your dinner "on a tray"?

Was that the famous sci-fi experience where they served you your dinner "on a tray"?

Can't you just accept a difference of opinion without personalized comment? It's an adult trait, not difficult to acquire for most.

It is not an uncommonly held view in the industry that Alitalia service is sub par and yes I had an example of that last year on a transcontinental involving inter alia a rushed and truncated meal service and much more.

Your personalized attempts at sarcasm are not going to prevent me expressing my opinion nor from pointing out improvements in product
when I perceive them, as I have done in the previous post I

Can't you just accept a difference of opinion without personalized comment? It's an adult trait, not difficult to acquire for most.

It is not an uncommonly held view in the industry that Alitalia service is sub par and yes I had an example of that last year on a transcontinental involving inter alia a rushed and truncated meal service and much more.


Let me see if I can explain you a few basic terms:

"I think that Alitalia has an inferior product" is your opinion, to which you are fully entitled (and of which I personally care little).

"It is well known that Alitalia has an inferior product" implies a vague concept of "common knowledge" which is BS.

"Alitalia gave me my dinner in a tray in Magnifica" is blatantly untrue, and as such sheds serious doubts on you having ever flown in Magnifica. Because service in Magnifica simply doesn't work that way.

So, I don't care about your opinions, but I will keep calling out BS when I see it.

:) suit yourself I think posters just have to read the posts other than by you and 2.5 others to draw their own conclusions

Your loyalty to AZ is so blind that all contrary evidence is a lie for you. You find service failure inconceivable so when someone reports it, it cant be true? It's called denial...get over it.

AZ is an airline whose published phone numbers do not work, eticket confirmations do not arrive.... And that's just this weeks posts here...and then their appalling service history To mess up a meal service is not, I think, beyond the realms of anyone's imagination... Except the fanatic.

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (BlackBerry; U; BlackBerry 9800; it) AppleWebKit/534.1+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0.0.246 Mobile Safari/534.1+)

As I said, troll. I shall feed you no further.

We don't need to be slammed on here. Some of us are experienced travelers. Some people not,,, however we are on this forum to help and share information.

Many airlines across the world dissapoint us as customers, and I certainly don't think raistlin is blinded by his views.

Please let's have a friendly forum... And dont take yourselves so seriously. What may appear to be sarcasm could be friendly batter or just a joke...it's hard to liven things up through a screen and take it the way you didn't intend it to mean.

However honesty is important with alitalia threads, as not many contributors to this forum, and any advice or stories can help people... No matter what leg or class they're in.

Please let's keep this friendly which was the reason I joined and was happy to come back to after the helpful people here

I was on a FCO-JFK and return AZ flights in Magnifica (I'm not an Alitalia fan, I always travel with BA) but I must admit that the service and the meals were absolutely great.

Definitely better than many meals I had in Club World on BA..

Especially the small details like the real espresso at the end of the meal, or the quality of the ingredients, the way the FA actually serve the food or their manner.

Probably, being Italian, I had a better experience than many foreigners thanks to the language and the consequent easy communication with the FAs.. But in general I was really pleased with my AZ trip..

Definitely better than many meals I had in Club World on BA..


I have the opposite share of experience (just a couple in Club, many times in Magnifica) but I share the view. Quality of food in Club is quite abysmal.

Where I see a distinct advantage for BA is in the airport experience. BA lounges are better, and I wish there was a sleeper service on AZ :-(

I have the opposite share of experience (just a couple in Club, many times in Magnifica) but I share the view. Quality of food in Club is quite abysmal.

Where I see a distinct advantage for BA is in the airport experience. BA lounges are better, and I wish there was a sleeper service on AZ :-(

The difference BA vs AZ is the seat. You are guarenteed a bed in J. Full stop. No thinking A330 / 777 / 767 etc.

If you do want to compare onboard service I would say it was a draw though

Seat - BA wins hands down
Food - AZ wins hands down (i do agree with both of you. CW has got a lot worse over last 24 months)
Drink - BA wins. Greater choice of wines and beers. But AZ is OK and better than DL
Service - Depends. In my view DURING meal service AZ wins. In between meals AZ staff can be patchy
"Bar / Snacks" - draw
AVOD - BA wins, but margin is narrowing

On the ground lounges are non comparable. BA wins
Not just AZ's fault. ST lounges are pretty awful - was in AMS a few weeks ago and compared to BA lounges in LHR they are a joke

Sleeper services? You could make the 2130 departure from JFK - FCO a sleeper service - there are just not enough flights for other sleeper services. Flights that leave US at 1600 / 1700 / 1800 is too early to make it a sleeper service

We don't need to be slammed on here. Some of us are experienced travelers. Some people not,,, however we are on this forum to help and share information.

Many airlines across the world dissapoint us as customers, and I certainly don't think raistlin is blinded by his views.

Please let's have a friendly forum... And dont take yourselves so seriously. What may appear to be sarcasm could be friendly batter or just a joke...it's hard to liven things up through a screen and take it the way you didn't intend it to mean.

However honesty is important with alitalia threads, as not many contributors to this forum, and any advice or stories can help people... No matter what leg or class they're in.

Please let's keep this friendly which was the reason I joined and was happy to come back to after the helpful people here

Good on you Jinxy - and its great to have you on this forum!!!

AZ is strange - it brings up heated emotions!!!
Personally I don't really understand why
I like AZ and I like flying AZ. I certainly won't pay more to fly AZ though than say BA and unfortunately AZ's network is "limited"...

When they have LIN - LHR at 300€ in J (this weekend with the 10% off) then they get my business^

The difference BA vs AZ is the seat. You are guarenteed a bed in J. Full stop. No thinking A330 / 777 / 767 etc.


Sure thing. If you note, I always say that I find the service excellent on the few specific routes with the new 330s.

That will be true also on AZ from next year, with the reconfig of the 777s and the phaseout of the older 767 and 330 ex-AP shameplanes

"It is well known that Alitalia has an inferior product" implies a vague concept of "common knowledge" which is BS.


erm... with all the due respect I can't remember any magazine, firm, group, website or reliable source in whose ranking Alitalia was among the best lot.

I'm serious. I can't say about L/H biz class experience since I ahven't fly with them for a while, but I indeed think it's there's a general consensus about the fact BA or LH are better than AZ.

On a side note, general consensus doesn't mean *everyone* thinks so, just that 50%+1 of the people having an opinion on the subject thinks this.

My 0.02 $

The difference BA vs AZ is the seat. You are guarenteed a bed in J. Full stop. No thinking A330 / 777 / 767 etc.

If you do want to compare onboard service I would say it was a draw though

Seat - BA wins hands down
Food - AZ wins hands down (i do agree with both of you. CW has got a lot worse over last 24 months)
Drink - BA wins. Greater choice of wines and beers. But AZ is OK and better than DL
Service - Depends. In my view DURING meal service AZ wins. In between meals AZ staff can be patchy
"Bar / Snacks" - draw
AVOD - BA wins, but margin is narrowing

On the ground lounges are non comparable. BA wins
Not just AZ's fault. ST lounges are pretty awful - was in AMS a few weeks ago and compared to BA lounges in LHR they are a joke

Sleeper services? You could make the 2130 departure from JFK - FCO a sleeper service - there are just not enough flights for other sleeper services. Flights that leave US at 1600 / 1700 / 1800 is too early to make it a sleeper service

+1
and I say that it's very hard to compare the crew service, since in many case every crew is a different story.

Sure thing. If you note, I always say that I find the service excellent on the few specific routes with the new 330s.

That will be true also on AZ from next year, with the reconfig of the 777s and the phaseout of the older 767 and 330 ex-AP shameplanes

once again with all the due respect, we're talking about the present.
BA is offering full flat bed since a very long time.
Alitalia is still offering different products, where a not marginal amount of planes is not fitted with full flat seats.
[The same consideration can be adopted for EK, another airline you never know what you could get, both in terms of hard and soft product - and another airline I stopped to fly with]

If I can observe this about you, I like your zest about Alitalia, but then you have to face the truth.
For sure, I agree that AZ made some relevant improvements (full flat seat, service and so on), but I think that many AZ lovers are making the mistake to confuse the difference between reducing a gap and being better than.

Alitalia is reducing the gap. I'm fine.
To be better than BA (or *some* other airline) is another story.

The difference BA vs AZ is the seat. You are guarenteed a bed in J. Full stop. No thinking A330 / 777 / 767 etc.

If you do want to compare onboard service I would say it was a draw though

Seat - BA wins hands down
Food - AZ wins hands down (i do agree with both of you. CW has got a lot worse over last 24 months)
Drink - BA wins. Greater choice of wines and beers. But AZ is OK and better than DL
Service - Depends. In my view DURING meal service AZ wins. In between meals AZ staff can be patchy
"Bar / Snacks" - draw
AVOD - BA wins, but margin is narrowing

On the ground lounges are non comparable. BA wins
Not just AZ's fault. ST lounges are pretty awful - was in AMS a few weeks ago and compared to BA lounges in LHR they are a joke

Sleeper services? You could make the 2130 departure from JFK - FCO a sleeper service - there are just not enough flights for other sleeper services. Flights that leave US at 1600 / 1700 / 1800 is too early to make it a sleeper service

Spot on, as ever, terminalfive. I do slightly disagree on the service, though: BA crews are normally very efficient and professional whether with AZ you can get an annoying mixture of excellent and awful [service] which, given its very uncertain nature, often results in putting people off in the long run. That said, I still think LH offers the best onboard experience, with the majority of crews always attentive and with a smile on their faces :)

Spot on, as ever, terminalfive. I do slightly disagree on the service, though: BA crews are normally very efficient and professional whether with AZ you can get an annoying mixture of excellent and awful [service] which, given its very uncertain nature, often results in putting people off in the long run. That said, I still think LH offers the best onboard experience, with the majority of crews always attentive and with a smile on their faces :)

Spot on....... though I am yet to experience excellent service in Alitalia ok yes..
LH is amazing. What a turnaround. In the 1990s they were efficient but surly, often unresponsive. now I agree they are the best of the European carriers that I fly (ie I know not of LOT Malev CZ etc)

erm... with all the due respect I can't remember any magazine, firm, group, website or reliable source in whose ranking Alitalia was among the best lot.

I'm serious. I can't say about L/H biz class experience since I ahven't fly with them for a while, but I indeed think it's there's a general consensus about the fact BA or LH are better than AZ.

On a side note, general consensus doesn't mean *everyone* thinks so, just that 50%+1 of the people having an opinion on the subject thinks this.

My 0.02 $

Very fair comment. I would agree completely

LH is amazing. What a turnaround. In the 1990s they were efficient but surly, often unresponsive. now I agree they are the best of the European carriers that I fly (ie I know not of LOT Malev CZ etc)

How true - and connecting at their hubs (especially MUC) can be such a pleasant experience ^
I flew LO quite often in the past as I was based in Warsaw due to work reasons: they're a 'nice little carrier' and slowly getting up to LH standards (they do serve decent snacks in Y also on relatively short flights, for instance), however their network is pretty poor at the moment.

erm... with all the due respect I can't remember any magazine, firm, group, website or reliable source in whose ranking Alitalia was among the best lot.


On Magnifica's food, multiple times, actually :-)

But the size and the type of services offered by AZ today are, objectively, not comparable with BA or LH. So it's not surprising, I think, that you don't see AZ in magazines ;-)

Also, we were comparing the experience of Magnifica on specific routes, not evaluating AZ as a whole. As a whole, I have a lot of other carriers which I like more (MH, for instance, or SQ, and even BA for certain things).

To be better than BA (or *some* other airline) is another story.

Paffendorf, I fully respect your opinion. In my experience, flying economy, BA is worse than AZ on almost all aircraft (foodwise and seatwise), with the possible exception of entertainment (an aspect which I am less interested in, usually). But YMMV, Economy is much of a muchness on every airline.

Regarding my "zest", there's a method in my madness. I never cared about flying Magnifica before the introduction of the new product, which I really like. I never cared particularly if I were flying AZ or KL or DL, either.

Since the introduction of the new A330s has changed that balance, and has brought much better (though still uneven, I completely agree!) service to AZ, I try to communicate that option, because there is a lot of bad feelings towards AZ caused by the years of turmoil.

I hope you will test it someday, so we can discuss it and compare it to Club. Deal? :)

I hope you will test it someday, so we can discuss it and compare it to Club. Deal? :)

DEAL!
I'll send u my personal data so that you can pay for my upcoming trip in AZ J class :D

Anyway I'm more than likely to try and compare, but as BA gold I really had wonderful experiences in BA J.... so it's hard.

DEAL!
I'll send u my personal data so that you can pay for my upcoming trip in AZ J class :D

That would be bribery, sorry. It's not allowed (picture the Delta waving finger here).

:D

Ahh we're all happy again! :)