TalkBoard Topics - AutoSlash and Free Advertising on FlyerTalk

Hello.

Please feel free to delete or lock this thread if I am off-base, however, I believe that something needs to be done regarding the free "advertising" the website www.autoslash.com is receiving in the car-rental sections of this website.

It is one thing that a "Green" company rep (their username is in green) is available to us to answer questions about their product or service, and maybe once or twice announce product enhancements or changes, however, the technique being used by AutoSlash I believe has no place in the Flyertalk Community.

If they are going to use Flyertalk to advertise their product in the way they currently are, they should be paying advertising rates to FlyerTalk for the business they are receiving.


Two quotes from AutoSlash, from the Hertz forum:

"Of course it also goes without saying that you can save even more by booking with AutoSlash.com since we'll also apply the best coupons to your rental, and if rates drop, we'll automatically re-book you at the lower rate. Think of it as price protection. Since we're free, it's basically a no-brainer."

"If you'd like a competitive quote from AutoSlash.com, PM me and I'll be happy to give you one. Then you get the advantage of having your rate tracked, and if they drop, we re-book you to lock in the savings automatically!"

Hello.

Please feel free to delete or lock this thread if I am off-base, however, I believe that something needs to be done regarding the free "advertising" the website www.autoslash.com is receiving in the car-rental sections of this website.

It is one thing that a "Green" company rep (their username is in green) is available to us to answer questions about their product or service, and maybe once or twice announce product enhancements or changes, however, the technique being used by AutoSlash I believe has no place in the Flyertalk Community.

If they are going to use Flyertalk to advertise their product in the way they currently are, they should be paying advertising rates to FlyerTalk for the business they are receiving.


Two quotes from AutoSlash, from the Hertz forum:

"Of course it also goes without saying that you can save even more by booking with AutoSlash.com since we'll also apply the best coupons to your rental, and if rates drop, we'll automatically re-book you at the lower rate. Think of it as price protection. Since we're free, it's basically a no-brainer."

"If you'd like a competitive quote from AutoSlash.com, PM me and I'll be happy to give you one. Then you get the advantage of having your rate tracked, and if they drop, we re-book you to lock in the savings automatically!"

Apologies if any responses were inappropriate as it was certainly not the intention. :o

I'll go back and edit out any offending language and stick to just the facts going forward. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Flyertalk has certainly been good to us, and we're here to give back to the community, not to use it as an outlet for advertising. We'll be more judicious going forward.

Is there a chance a Moderator could review this matter? I reported some posts to the "local" Hertz Moderator, received no reply or action.


www.flyertalk.com/help/rules.php#q78#q71

Clearly states:

Commercial and Charitable Messages

a. Commercial posts. Posts containing promotional
messages for commercial products or services -
including but not limited to Internet sites, business
advertisements and solicitations to donate miles or
points – are prohibited and will be removed.

AutoSlash - the logical starting point would be to change your signature...

Auto Slash worked phenomenally well on our local SoCal visit..

I certainly appreciated the savings that were passed on.. and support Auto Slash presence on the forum..

I might add that Auto Slash represents quite a few vehicle companies.. a nice cross section of main stream rental vehicle competitors..

AutoSlash - the logical starting point would be to change your signature...

How so?

Signatures are exempt from the commercial postings rule.

If this approach is to be followed then there are several other Official Company Representatives that would likely need to be similarly censured.

The bigger issue is that the ToS doesn't effectively address what happens in our community in reality. While there is a blanket prohibition of commercial posts there are also some unpublished exemptions to that same rule. They aren't that hard to find. (I've been informed that naming them is inappropriate.)

I would say that AutoSlash quite readily falls into the same bucket as these. Yes, they are a commercial service, but they were also given approval by the FT community director at a certain point in time to behave they way they do, thereby exempting them from the rules about commercial posting.

Of course, no one has any way of knowing that as there is no list of published exemptions or even, to the best of my knowledge, a set of criteria that can be demonstrably met to achieve such an exemption.

If this approach is to be followed then there are several other Official Company Representatives that would likely need to be similarly censured.

The bigger issue is that the ToS doesn't effectively address what happens in our community in reality. While there is a blanket prohibition of commercial posts there are also some unpublished exemptions to that same rule. They aren't that hard to find. (I've been informed that naming them is inappropriate.)

I would say that AutoSlash quite readily falls into the same bucket as these. Yes, they are a commercial service, but they were also given approval by the FT community director at a certain point in time to behave they way they do, thereby exempting them from the rules about commercial posting.

Of course, no one has any way of knowing that as there is no list of published exemptions or even, to the best of my knowledge, a set of criteria that can be demonstrably met to achieve such an exemption.

I'm not savvy as you guys who's been around for awhile..

From a layperson end user perspective.. I was in a pinch.. and I posted my situation about my minivan rental from LAX coming in around $1,300 all in.. and was actively seeking help..

I'm glad it all worked out, as Auto Slash basically came to my rescue and salvaged what could have been a wallet breaking rental situation..

My perception, coming out of this experience.. was that FT cared about helping those who were in a pinch out.. and saving $$ ethically within respectable channels..

We are all here to improve on Miles and Points experiences and capabilities.. Maybe a reworking on why Flyer Talk exists and the goals for its users.. would help develop involvement of commercial representatives..

My perception, coming out of this experience.. was that FT cared about helping those who were in a pinch out.. and saving $$ ethically within respectable channels.. I have no problem with this view. And I think that this accurately reflects reality much better than the way the current rules are formulated. But unless one is aware that certain members (representing companies) have been given permission to break these rules it creates a rather sticky situation.

How is anyone supposed to know, for example, that various members are actually legitimately permitted to have multiple handles even though the ToS explicitly prohibits it? Of course that's for the good of the community (one for work when representing a company and one for personal participation), but the rules are quite clear.
Multiple Usernames
Members are not allowed to have multiple FlyerTalk accounts or usernames. Multiple accounts will be closed and involved members can be subject to the disciplinary process.

The same goes for commercial participation. The rules are quite explicit, without much room for leeway, other than in the CC forum:
Commercial and Charitable Messages
a. Commercial posts. Posts containing promotional messages for commercial products or services - including but not limited to Internet sites, business advertisements and solicitations to donate miles or points – are prohibited and will be removed. FlyerTalk is not a marketplace and nothing is to be offered for sale or conditioned on an exchange of money or barter. Nothing in this rule is intended to prohibit exchange of travel coupons as allowed by the rules of Coupon Connection. If you spot a commercial post, please report it.
There is no doubt that some of the posts of AutoSlash violate this rule as it is written. So do those of a number of other company representatives which I've been advised to not name explicitly.

The difference is that some of these company representatives have been granted permission to break the rules. As a moderator I was aware of certain exemptions, though there was no official list I was aware of. Still, there were several whom we all accepted were generally allowed to operate in that way, either because they always had or because they specifically sought permission and it was granted.

Either way, the rules do not reflect the actual practices of the community.

I do not believe this is a topic that TB can address. I believe it sits squarely in the lap of the Community Director and that a change to the ToS is the only way to appropriately address this issue. My previous efforts on that front met with little success. I wish others better luck than I had.
We are all here to improve on Miles and Points experiences and capabilities.. Maybe a reworking on why Flyer Talk exists and the goals for its users.. would help develop involvement of commercial representatives..
I could not agree more. I'm in favor of significantly expanding the Company Representative program and welcoming anyone who wishes to engage directly with their customers through our community with open arms, so long as the other rules are still respected. It is my impression that this view is in the minority amongst those making the decisions.

In my 18 or so active months here of FlyerTalk, I would say that 95% or more of posts which I have encountered from an Official Company Representative (OCR's) can be categorized in one of two categories.


First, probably most common, is when OCR's directly reply to a complaint, concern, or question over his or her OWN company's service. You see this to an extent with the UAInsider in the CO/UA forums, the Wyndham rep in that hotel chain's forum, and even some reps in the Hertz Forum as well. These, as I said are OCR's posting about THEIR company, in THEIR company's forum.

What you don't see isUAInsider posing in the Delta forum when someone complains about too high airfare from ATL-EWR, suggesting that passengers look at ATL on CO instead. It just doesn't, and shouldn't happen.



Second, to a lesser extent announcing a modified/additional/new product or service for their company. One of most obvious would again be UAInsider with their continued updates during the merger of CO/UA. I also know the folks at KVSTool post regularly in the (I believe) Travel Technology with updates to their product.

In both instances, these OCR's start new threads within their specific forums on FlyerTalk to make these various announcements.



For AutoSlash this has NOT to be the case. Instead of posting in the appropriate forum, and/or addressing member's specific questions about THEIR service, they have instead, replied to postings from members concerned about another company's service.

The AutoSlash OCR's replies have often not addressed the member's specific concerns, but instead have served as a direct self-promotion or advertisement of their commercial for-profit service.

This can be evidenced in two quotes from the Hertz forum which I mentioned previously:

"Of course it also goes without saying that you can save even more by booking with AutoSlash.com...Since we're free, it's basically a no-brainer."

"If you'd like a competitive quote from AutoSlash.com, PM me and I'll be happy to give you one."



I am all for the spirit of collective knowledge and experience in helping us all get the most bang for their travel dollars. What concerns and bothers me is the unsolicited promotion and advertisement of a for-profit business in direct response to an unrelated question.



To their credit, since I raised my concerns over AutoSlash's posting habits initially, their OCR's have drastically cut back on the "free advertisement" style postings, have become much more of a resource, rather than self-promoting in nature, which is what FlyerTalk is about.

In addition, since it was mentioned by another poster in this thread, I have no problem with OCR's having a signature line which mentions and links to their product.

...

Nothing I've seen in this thread is anything under the purview of the TalkBoard. IMHO, the OP should either take his matter to the moderator(s) of the affected forums or, failing that, to the Community Director. The only thing the TalkBoard can do is consider recommending a revision of the ToS to allow commercial posts or to create a forum where commercial-type posts are allowed (something that has been discussed in the last several months), but the TalkBoard cannot deal with this specific complaint, as it is a moderation issue.

Instead of posting in the appropriate forum, and/or addressing member's specific questions about THEIR service, they have instead, replied to postings from members concerned about another company's service. If you want to pick a nit over that type of behavior there are other members I'd start with, particularly when it comes to the tools that are available to fare/inventory/award searching.

As I mentioned above, the behavior of these members is approved by the powers that be but no one knows that because there is no public affirmation of this policy anywhere and the ToS has not been adjusted to reflect the actual policies in the community. It is certainly frustrating, but that's what the current rules actually are (or what they were a couple months ago).

If you want to pick a nit over that type of behavior there are other members I'd start with, particularly when it comes to the tools that are available to fare/inventory/award searching.

As I mentioned above, the behavior of these members is approved by the powers that be but no one knows that because there is no public affirmation of this policy anywhere and the ToS has not been adjusted to reflect the actual policies in the community. It is certainly frustrating, but that's what the current rules actually are (or what they were a couple months ago).

I appreciate the moderators work here on FT.. Its a tough job..

Especially when the Fairmont Friends and Family program was on, and I was offering a number of contacts that were booking a ton of rooms..

Advised to contact the moderators first before posting the offering, there was certainly some miscommunication.. there were posts saying I was giving the referrals for a commercial reason, when in actuality I was contributing charitably to the community.

I've appreciated the clarity that the moderators were able to communicate to me.. and certainly experienced the wrath of those who didn't for a moment think that I was doing the Fairmont Friends and Family rates without making a cent..

I certainly didn't make a cent..

Going through the scrutiny, and being analyzed every inch.. having faced the fears of being banned, even after receiving permission from the moderators.. to offer the excellent low rates.. and handling 4,000+ pms.. the moderators unwavered in their word..

Definitely a bit of disconnect with the rest of the forum.. but we were successful in laying out the offering as planned, until the promotion ended..

imo.. AutoSlash provided help in time of need.. I think we should look at the ultimate result benefit to the end user..

That will help with increased usage and reliance on the site where real results mean something.. in the end, it is what advertisers want.. Its a matter of striking a balance..

Is there a chance a Moderator could review this matter? I reported some posts to the "local" Hertz Moderator, received no reply or action.

...

I did that too a couple times in the past with the same result. There is a line between helping people and advertising services which most company reps do not cross.

The issue has been raised and answered by the representative called out in the opening post. I'm sure it is difficult for those who come from our own ranks, who have developed tools filling voids they have learned on FT, and now want to make others aware of their new tool. It's a fine line to walk between informing and advertising. I doubt very much that the latter was intended, and believe there is now far more sensitivity to the matter.

We now have moderators in the main car forums, National, Avis and Hertz. The latter two were added just in the last two weeks. This was not in response to this thread, but rather because members felt FlyerTalk could benefit from them giving back in those forums. If you have concerns, please raise them with them.

Since this issue has been asked and answered, I'll lock this thread now.

SanDiego1K
Community Director