EL AL Matmid - What do you want for LY?

How would you like LY to be?
Food?
Fleet?
Others?

For me:
# Food: I would like a better food on the European routes in C

# Fleet:
- get rid of the 762s and 763s, and replace them with 787s ASAP
- withdraw the 744s, and replace them with a mix of 748Is and 77Ws with new seats in C and F
- upgrade the 777s with AVOD, mood lights, and new seats in C and F
- withdraw the 752s
- upgrade the 737NGs with Winglets for ALL a/c, and with AVOD

# Others: a better website

Proper premium economy

Proper First Class

A Matmid tier between PL and TP

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8L1 Safari/6533.18.5)

Proper business class...

[SIZE=1]Proper business class...

^^^

Real flat-bed seats!!

Given the market to TLV and how many carriers fight to get slots/bigger aircraft LY has such a distinct advantage (many other reasons too). With support, LY could easily pull ahead of the other carriers bringing premium passengers to/from TLV. To start a competitive prem Y, business and first class is critical. There is no excuse for at the least not having a competitive business class as well as a revamp of the business class for the short-medium haul routes. I also think there is tremendous potential given space at TLV for LY to have a premium terminal of sorts. The demand appears to be there as the private firms like Luaffer offering some VIP like services for a fee and LH continues to be quite successful with its FCL style lounges. It would be quite easy for LY to set itself apart from all competition given its already established history and niche at TLV.

Fast track security in TLV

There have been numerous threads on this topic. First of all LY777, there are no 787s or 748i for them to get now

Winglets don't concern me as much.

I want proper F and C on 747/777, and at least proper C on 767 (flat-bed). AVOD fleet-wide, and real AVOD, such as CO's or BA's. Not what they started installing and never seems to work. And Premium Economy (though that I can wait on)

A 21st century, helpful website! A real mobile site! A single app, to help us with all our LY needs, for iPhone, BlackBerry, and Android.

A better pricing model

A real fast-track for security, at least in TLV (for F/C and TPL/PL/GL/SL)

A presence on FT to keep us updated, show us that LY hears us and listens...

HOWEVER, I must say that there are many things where LY is fantastic. I like the food and find the service great. While airlines are really beginning to nickel and dime, LY, at least for now, seems to have survived this onslaught. Basic, non-Matmid members, traveling in Y, can still check a decent amount of luggage, free of charge. Even overage charges aren't too bad. Food, drinks, even alcohol, are free. The list does continue, but I'm too tired to think now

If LY wants a clue what it should offer, at least in terms of LHR-TLV simply travel with BA and see what the competition is up to. I regularly fly to TLV, and LY is a last resort for me, even in Business Class. I travelled there and back in May in biz, and it was very poor. The seats are non-flat, and the food was awful - exactly the same menu for both directions. No sparkling wine or champagne, which is bizarre in a supposedly European full-fare Biz Class. No decent treatment of passengers (e.g. holding back Y passengers for premium passengers to disembark). Lousy choice of films and equipment often not working. All in all, I would genuinely have preferred to be on BA, even in WT+, if not in WT.

I'm not Jewish, and I don't know if LY has a particular pull with Israeli Jews on which it banks to survive - but I note that when I fly on BA there seem to be no shortage of Orthodox Jews on their planes as well, so the argument doesn't seem strong. So I would say that El Al needs to get its act seriously together to compete with other western carriers.

On demand entertainment. This is a biggy for me.

Join an alliance

1) Real lie flat seats in C and F on all long haul planes
2) Acquire 787s ASAP and drop the 767s.
3) Ensure a differentiated and efficient airport experience for premium passengers (enforced different security/check-in lines, priority lines for boarding) . Last time flying LY out of TLV there were a gazillion normal passengers clogging the premium security check. Super annoying.

4) make a respectable website.
5) improve the F&B onboard (the entrees need a lot of help, the breakfast and salads are great) and they need champagne, or to get some nice Israeli sparkling wine such as yarden blanc de blanc or Pelter.

a better website

Has anybody ever tried using Arika's website, I wonder if anybody has ever managed to complete a booking on it! (I think in firefox it doesn't work at all, just like the flight info on Ben Gurion's website doesn't).

- upgrade the 737NGs with Winglets for ALL a/c
Why on earth would you care about winglets and how would they improve your experience flying LY?

A Matmid tier between PL and TPWhy? Isn't having 5 tier levels enough? It wasn't that long ago when it was just two.

HOWEVER, I must say that there are many things where LY is fantastic.
While they might be good in some areas (like crew are usually very friendly for example) I would hardly say they are "fantastic" in anything, never mind "many things", and none of the things you listed make them "fantastic"...

I like the food and find the service great.

I admit food is a personal taste thing but I can't say it's that great. Sometimes, it's okay, other times not so great. The food service on the long European flights is not really so good, particuarly the getting all courses on one tray in one go thing.

As to service, yes the crews are usually quite friendly or very friendly, although I have experienced quite the contrary - so much so that I have been forced to complain. I also usually right in when the crew is outstanding and that does happen on LY.

While airlines are really beginning to nickel and dime, LY, at least for now, seems to have survived this onslaught. Basic, non-Matmid members, traveling in Y, can still check a decent amount of luggage, free of charge. Even overage charges aren't too bad. Food, drinks, even alcohol, are free. The list does continue, but I'm too tired to think now

US airlines are indeed nicekling and diming everything, but most respectable European ones are not and you get everything you mention above with them too.

Why? Isn't having 5 tier levels enough? It wasn't that long ago when it was just two.

^ Just what I was thinking. Most airlines have 3 tiers at most, some have 4. LY have made it very difficult to be a top tier member, something usually much easier to attain with other airlines. Even reaching one level below the top tier, i.e. PL, is no simple task for most frequent travellers. This is part of the reason LY is losing my business and I am dropping from PL at the end of this month.

On the other hand I am Gold with BA and LH (Senator) and Platinum with AF. I could have kept my PL by putting all my travel just with LY but other airlines have more competitive offerings out of TLV...

If anything, LY should reduce the requirements for attaining PL and TPL and bring back some of the personal touches they took away from PLs when they introduced TPLs such as presents, etc.

If LY wants a clue what it should offer, at least in terms of LHR-TLV simply travel with BA and see what the competition is up to. I regularly fly to TLV, and LY is a last resort for me, even in Business Class. I travelled there and back in May in biz, and it was very poor. The seats are non-flat, and the food was awful - exactly the same menu for both directions. No sparkling wine or champagne, which is bizarre in a supposedly European full-fare Biz Class. No decent treatment of passengers (e.g. holding back Y passengers for premium passengers to disembark). Lousy choice of films and equipment often not working. All in all, I would genuinely have preferred to be on BA, even in WT+, if not in WT.

What do you mean, "even in WT+?" Of course I would prefer to travel in WT+...unless you mean you prefer WT+ over F/C on LY, in which case I have to strongly disagree with you. But I like BA, and a similar product would be great, though I'm hardly holding my breath. Truth be told, with the major exception of IFE, I prefer Y on LY to WT. Perhaps the fact that I keep Kosher is a part of that, but I prefer food and service on LY, and find the seats on LY to be slightly better, unless I get an exit row or bulkhead on BA, which happens more often for me on BA than it does on LY.

I'm not Jewish, and I don't know if LY has a particular pull with Israeli Jews on which it banks to survive - but I note that when I fly on BA there seem to be no shortage of Orthodox Jews on their planes as well, so the argument doesn't seem strong. So I would say that El Al needs to get its act seriously together to compete with other western carriers.

It does with very few. Most don't care. A big pull regarding LY is security, and another is the experience of flying Israel's national carrier, but usually that stops (at least the latter) after their first flight to Israel.

On demand entertainment. This is a biggy for me.

+1

Join an alliance

Read the other threads on this issue. While I'd like that, I hardly see that coming anytime soon.

Has anybody ever tried using Arika's website, I wonder if anybody has ever managed to complete a booking on it! (I think in firefox it doesn't work at all, just like the flight info on Ben Gurion's website doesn't).

+1

US airlines are indeed nicekling and diming everything, but most respectable European ones are not and you get everything you mention above with them too.

Unfortunately, the US airlines are really nickeling and diming. As for Europan carriers, I can't comment because I only fly them internationally, where they don't, but neither to the US carriers. (Except charging for exit row/bulkhead, as well as alcohol.) But in general, the US carriers give a better luggage allowance than European carriers. (e.g. CO/UA allow *G to check 3 bags, 70 pounds, as opposed to the M&M carriers who allow 2 bags, 50 pounds, the same that CO/UA allow their lowest Silver Elites/2Ps.)

Unfortunately, the US airlines are really nickeling and diming. As for Europan carriers, I can't comment because I only fly them internationally, where they don't, but neither to the US carriers. (Except charging for exit row/bulkhead, as well as alcohol.) But in general, the US carriers give a better luggage allowance than European carriers. (e.g. CO/UA allow *G to check 3 bags, 70 pounds, as opposed to the M&M carriers who allow 2 bags, 50 pounds, the same that CO/UA allow their lowest Silver Elites/2Ps.)

My main gripe with *G airlines in Europe (well LH and LX anyway) is their pedantic approach to carry on bag sizes and weight. They limit the weight to 8KG which is nothing. The weight of a light-weight carry on wheely is 3-4KG, add one pair of shoes, a few pieces of clothing, tefilin if have / take them, a wash bag and you're already way above 8KG. I got LX in TLV to allow me to take on my bag weighing 12KG two weeks ago but it needed the intervention of a supervisor. I had the same thing flying LX in C from NYC-ZRH a couple of years ago. They made a scene about a bag I always take with me on LY and BA and in the end after some negotiation and intervention of a supervisor it was allowed. In NYC the check in lady asked the supervisor to sign for it (she needed to cover herself - I mean come on).

On LY I have never ever had such issues. On BA neither (maybe once I was asked to fit it into the sizing device by BA in LGW and I succeeded).

Not only that, but LH only allow one pc of hand baggage in Y which means if you have even a light-weight bad plus a laptop case you have to check in one.

That's one of the main reasons why I haven't switched most of my business travel to LH or LX.

Why on earth would you care about winglets and how would they improve your experience flying LY?

+1

My main gripe with *G airlines in Europe (well LH and LX anyway) is their pedantic approach to carry on bag sizes and weight. They limit the weight to 8KG which is nothing. The weight of a light-weight carry on wheely is 3-4KG, add one pair of shoes, a few pieces of clothing, tefilin if have / take them, a wash bag and you're already way above 8KG. I got LX in TLV to allow me to take on my bag weighing 12KG two weeks ago but it needed the intervention of a supervisor. I had the same thing flying LX in C from NYC-ZRH a couple of years ago. They made a scene about a bag I always take with me on LY and BA and in the end after some negotiation and intervention of a supervisor it was allowed. In NYC the check in lady asked the supervisor to sign for it (she needed to cover herself - I mean come on).

On LY I have never ever had such issues. On BA neither (maybe once I was asked to fit it into the sizing device by BA in LGW and I succeeded).

Not only that, but LH only allow one pc of hand baggage in Y which means if you have even a light-weight bad plus a laptop case you have to check in one.

That's one of the main reasons why I haven't switched most of my business travel to LH or LX.

I flew EWR-ZRH-TLV (CO connecting to LX) and as usual, carried on my backpack and my gym-style bag. I usually put the backpack under the seat in front of me (when in Y) and put the other bag on top. When I got to the gate, I was told to wait so they could print a luggage tag for me to check the gym bag. I said nothing. They told me to check it at the door. Got to the door, saw people with 3 carry-ons, and walked right on. There was more than enough room for all the bags, and we took off slightly early even.

When I got to the gate, I was told to wait so they could print a luggage tag for me to check the gym bag. I said nothing. They told me to check it at the door. Got to the door, saw people with 3 carry-ons, and walked right on. There was more than enough room for all the bags, and we took off slightly early even.

Done that too with Swiss ex Zurich.

How would you like LY to be?
Food?
Fleet?
Others?

For me:
# Food: I would like a better food on the European routes in C

# Fleet:
- get rid of the 762s and 763s, and replace them with 787s ASAP
- withdraw the 744s, and replace them with a mix of 748Is and 77Ws with new seats in C and F
- upgrade the 777s with AVOD, mood lights, and new seats in C and F
- withdraw the 752s
- upgrade the 737NGs with Winglets for ALL a/c, and with AVOD

# Others: a better website
I think it is urgent for elal to offer mezonot bread on the plane to kosher travelers as people who order the regular kosher meal cannot jump over their trays to wash their hands for hamotzi bread as required by halacha

It is not only the people who order the "glatt" meal who are required to wash their hands

I think it is urgent for elal to offer mezonot bread on the plane to kosher travelers as people who order the regular kosher meal cannot jump over their trays to wash their hands for hamotzi bread as required by halacha

It is not only the people who order the "glatt" meal who are required to wash their hands

They do offer "Mezonot" bread. Unfortunately, mezonot bread never actually is mezonot.

They do offer "Mezonot" bread. Unfortunately, mezonot bread never actually is mezonot.

Welcome to FT Ilan!

Going very OT now, according to most poskim when eating only about 2 empty rolls it's still mezonot.

Welcome to FT Ilan!

Going very OT now, according to most poskim when eating only about 2 empty rolls it's still mezonot.

Definitely OT, and probably belongs in the Religious Travelers forum, as this is an interesting and important topic. The OU (http://www.oukosher.org/index.php/common/article/the_mezonos_roll_is_it_a_piece_of_cake_by_rabbi_ya akov_luban/) seems to feel they can't be anything but Hamotzi.

Another problem that arises is the fact that these rolls are being used for a meal and not a snack, which inherently makes them Hamotzi, not Mezonot, even if they would've been Mezonot.