Alitalia MilleMiglia - Alitalia's reputation has this first time flyer to Italy worried.....

I am looking for both honest answers and some "hand holding". I've never flown to Italy before and booked a direct from JFK-Milan in slightly upgraded Classica Plus on the A330. There are so many terrible reviews about lost luggage that I have already decided to travel lightly with a carry on bag only. I will need to be creative in order to keep the bag under 17 pounds, but am determined to make it work. Any recent travellers, say in the last 12 months, fly the A330 and willing to offer their experiences with check in, food, service, cleanliness etc.? I'd like nothing better than to hear only wonderful things, and that would make me feel better, but I know I have got to take the good with the bad.

Welcome to FT!
If you're worried about delays and checked bags are you sure you should be travelling to Italy?
Perhaps this is better suited in the AZ forum.

Alitalia is perfectly fine and worlds better than any domestic airline.

Why should you worry about lost luggage on a direct flight? While it is certainly possible, it is far less likely than if you have a connection.

Just came back and flew 3 alitalia flights. Just finishing up my trip report and happy to answer questions, but on iPhone! Will try and post tomorrow.
All in all, no problems. Luggage fairly quick, very clean planes and nice crew, however always delays in departing due to slow ground staff.

Just trying to eliminate all sources of potential problems. Also, I thought it might speed up our travel through customs if we did not have to retrieve a checked bag prior to getting into line.

Please continue to follow this discussion in the Alitalia Forum.
Thanks..
Obscure2k
TravelBuzz Moderator

I think every lost luggage story I've heard from Americans on Alitalia was for flights connecting through Rome. I haven't heard much for lost luggage through Milan.

Every time I fly Alitalia, the onboard experience is fine. Just don't expect anything should you ever need to call their customer "service" center prior to the flight. Italy's standards of customer service are far inferior to America's.

I've never flown on the route the OP is talking about, but I've flown numerous times with Alitalia between London and various cities in Rome, and I've never had any significant problems with the airline: on this relatively short flight they have provide a basic but not unfriendly service in the economy section of the plane (rather better of course in the business class section), their check-in service has always been efficient, and my luggage has always been where it ought to be at the end of the flight.

As I say this is a different flight and a different sort of flight (short-haul rather than long-haul) and a different aircraft. But I suspect that the horror stories are probably a bit overstated...

I am looking for both honest answers and some "hand holding". I've never flown to Italy before and booked a direct from JFK-Milan in slightly upgraded Classica Plus on the A330. There are so many terrible reviews about lost luggage that I have already decided to travel lightly with a carry on bag only. I will need to be creative in order to keep the bag under 17 pounds, but am determined to make it work. Any recent travellers, say in the last 12 months, fly the A330 and willing to offer their experiences with check in, food, service, cleanliness etc.? I'd like nothing better than to hear only wonderful things, and that would make me feel better, but I know I have got to take the good with the bad.

I flew many times with AZ intercontinental. Sometimes they can be OK, trough never great. But often they can be really terrible. And when I say terrible - it really is. Think very frequent delays, strikes coming out of nowhere, broken seats, lost luggage and so on. Service on board again is never classy or caring. It can be at best "Italian Cool" style ( basically when the server thinks he is cool and expect you to laugh at his jokes ), at worst - downright rude. It's nearly impossible for an AZ employee to get fired, and in unlikely case when they are - they receive big part of they salary for years anyway, just for staying at home ( "cassa integrazione" ). So you imagine how this translates into good service. Still, there are some good people working for AZ, But it's 1 for 10, usually.

I stopped flying them some time ago, as many people who I know did. Despite very good fares and general convenience in my case. So honestly, I would not recommend AZ to anybody.

Regards,

El Puerco Volante.

The lost baggage, combined with poor ground customer service, has been a issue for a long while during the time of the 'hub' at MXP - a pain itself, with a number of problems generated by local external companies, BTW - and during the first year after the move back to Rome FCO.
Nowadays they're pretty good, and honestly for TATL flights they're very good.
Most of the comment you may read around are related to the 'old' AZ.

I think every lost luggage story I've heard from Americans on Alitalia was for flights connecting through Rome. I haven't heard much for lost luggage through Milan.

Hub in Milan but connections in Rome?

Hub in Milan but connections in Rome?

Of course. There are many connection possibilities in Rome. :confused:

Of course. There are many connection possibilities in Rome. :confused:

There're, but there weren't. It was about the past, like many of the experiences reported around.
All the long haul operations, including those from NA, were at MXP, except for 1 daily JFK - FCO, on top of the JFK-MXP, and a non -daily NRT (or something like that). So almost all the connections from NA were through MXP.
Most of the issues have been experienced and reported during the MXP time and during the first year of the new AZ at FCO.
Nowadays, everything is absolutely aligned to market KPIs, if not better.

I flew many times with AZ intercontinental. Sometimes they can be OK, trough never great. But often they can be really terrible. And when I say terrible - it really is. Think very frequent delays, strikes coming out of nowhere, broken seats, lost luggage and so on. Service on board again is never classy or caring. It can be at best "Italian Cool" style ( basically when the server thinks he is cool and expect you to laugh at his jokes ), at worst - downright rude. It's nearly impossible for an AZ employee to get fired, and in unlikely case when they are - they receive big part of they salary for years anyway, just for staying at home ( "cassa integrazione" ). So you imagine how this translates into good service. Still, there are some good people working for AZ, But it's 1 for 10, usually.

I stopped flying them some time ago, as many people who I know did. Despite very good fares and general convenience in my case. So honestly, I would not recommend AZ to anybody.

Regards,

El Puerco Volante.

I would underline that not a single strike affected Alitalia staff in the last 30 months.

There're, but there weren't. It was about the past, like many of the experiences reported around.
All the long haul operations, including those from NA, were at MXP, except for 1 daily JFK - FCO, on top of the JFK-MXP, and a non -daily NRT (or something like that). So almost all the connections from NA were through MXP.
Most of the issues have been experienced and reported during the MXP time and during the first year of the new AZ at FCO.
Nowadays, everything is absolutely aligned to market KPIs, if not better.

OK. My point remains - all the problems I'm aware of with lost luggage are for connections through Rome. Not Milan.

Just trying to eliminate all sources of potential problems. Also, I thought it might speed up our travel through customs if we did not have to retrieve a checked bag prior to getting into line.

Clearing "dogana" (Customs) in Italy (and most of Europe) involves walking on the green line versus read line as you exit the door. They rarely stop people and you normally do not talk with anyone.

Since you are on a non-stop flight lost luggage is a remote concern.
Waiting a long time for your luggage on arrival is a much more common concern.

Go only and check in advance for strikes, they are posted ahead of time.
There are a couple of websites where they are posted, here is one:
http://www.mit.gov.it/mit/site.php?p=scioperi

It really is draw of the luck. Just, as in last week, flew Az. Paris-Rome-Palermo, no problems with the flight. Just passengers and the airline can't do much about crying kids.

The nightmare, and it was a nightmare, was the trip back. Passengers were great.

Checked in on time everything fine... Boarding delayed... why, answer came back.. mechanical problems, and we are bringing another plane...45 minutes later.. we get to board. Mind you, I kept telling customer service that we had a connection and was there a way to reroute us... she kept shrugging her shoulders... We board, by shuttle... and as the bus was going, I noticed a police car and some people standing all around the plane. Once we boarded, I asked the FA if she was with the new crew, she said no, I asked if there was anything wrong with the plane, no was the answer... When everyone boarded, the people around the plane boarded and one man shook hands with the passengers... My deduction was that we waited for this politician to arrive, and that is why the delay...

When we landed throngs of passengers ran to customer service.. Us included, they told us that they booked us on the next day's flight, and we had to be at the airport at 5:30 am for a 7:30 flight... I asked if we could take a later flight.. No, was the answer.. I will pay for it... No. ok I want to take my suitcases and fly another airline ( I was planning on buying the ticket) no, you can't take the suitcase. Madame you have to go to this hotel, you will be transported there fed and brought back the next day... I put my head down and went out trying to find the shuttle. Mind you it was a nightmare finding a door that opened. All doors were closed. Finally found one... Finding the shuttle was another horror story... But the worst was the "hotel" Satellite Palace hotel... a pseudo hotel.. a boarding house. Nightmare or nightmares. The hordes of people coming in... and there is no registration counter, or check out place. Went to the room... rat and cockroach infested... Called Amex and asked them to reserve me a room in a decent hotel, took my passport and left..

Would I fly AZ again... No...

In light of what I have read, I would be inclined to agree that it is probably highly unlikely that my bag wouldn't make it from JFK to Milan. I am flying home Rome direct to JFK. It is a chance that I would rather not take when the opportunity to just carry on is available, albeit with some concessions on my part in regards to packing. I will probably benefit from only having one smaller bag over the course of the trip anyway. Is there a website that gives you on-time statistics for specific routes to see if there is any particular pattern for delays and cancellations with Alitalia? I've read a bit about that being a problem, although I am not sure if that was back in the government run days of AZ or more recently.

Don't know about MXP. Checked baggage may take a while in FCO. If at all possible, carry-on only.

Going back in coach FCO-JFK, AZ is clearly the choice: You'll avoid T5 and the new A330 on that route has a coach cabin that is superior to any US airline. Food is better too.

It really is draw of the luck. Just, as in last week, flew Az. Paris-Rome-Palermo, no problems with the flight. Just passengers and the airline can't do much about crying kids.

The nightmare, and it was a nightmare, was the trip back. Passengers were great.

Checked in on time everything fine... Boarding delayed... why, answer came back.. mechanical problems, and we are bringing another plane...45 minutes later.. we get to board. Mind you, I kept telling customer service that we had a connection and was there a way to reroute us... she kept shrugging her shoulders... We board, by shuttle... and as the bus was going, I noticed a police car and some people standing all around the plane. Once we boarded, I asked the FA if she was with the new crew, she said no, I asked if there was anything wrong with the plane, no was the answer... When everyone boarded, the people around the plane boarded and one man shook hands with the passengers... My deduction was that we waited for this politician to arrive, and that is why the delay...

When we landed throngs of passengers ran to customer service.. Us included, they told us that they booked us on the next day's flight, and we had to be at the airport at 5:30 am for a 7:30 flight... I asked if we could take a later flight.. No, was the answer.. I will pay for it... No. ok I want to take my suitcases and fly another airline ( I was planning on buying the ticket) no, you can't take the suitcase. Madame you have to go to this hotel, you will be transported there fed and brought back the next day... I put my head down and went out trying to find the shuttle. Mind you it was a nightmare finding a door that opened. All doors were closed. Finally found one... Finding the shuttle was another horror story... But the worst was the "hotel" Satellite Palace hotel... a pseudo hotel.. a boarding house. Nightmare or nightmares. The hordes of people coming in... and there is no registration counter, or check out place. Went to the room... rat and cockroach infested... Called Amex and asked them to reserve me a room in a decent hotel, took my passport and left..

Would I fly AZ again... No...

Sounds liek the Alitalia that always was.... wow, this beats my worst experiences on this airline. Yes, i would avoid when possible...

Mind you, I kept telling customer service that we had a connection and was there a way to reroute us... she kept shrugging her shoulders... We board, by shuttle...

How would you reroute PMO-FCO ? Of course she was shrugging.
And it is a small airport, shuttle or walk is all you get.

Boarding delayed... why, answer came back.. mechanical problems, and we are bringing another plane...45 minutes later.. we get to board.


It happens to aircrafts. They don't fly 15 years in a row with no mechanical problems... Is it a 45' delay something a FF cannot live with?


Mind you, I kept telling customer service that we had a connection and was there a way to reroute us

From PMO to FCO? To make a transit you're afraid you aren't going to make because of a 45' delay?


... she kept shrugging her shoulders...

Every single day I step in an airport, I wonder how those people can manage to keep cool...


We board, by shuttle...

We can ask the PMO airport company to build up a jetbridge for you. Just send them an email with your next trip to PMO and they can arrange the works. Please cc me, so I can take a leave and attend the welcome party. :D


and as the bus was going, I noticed a police car and some people standing all around the plane. Once we boarded, I asked the FA if she was with the new crew, she said no, I asked if there was anything wrong with the plane, no was the answer... When everyone boarded, the people around the plane boarded and one man shook hands with the passengers... My deduction was that we waited for this politician to arrive, and that is why the delay...

Clearly you don't fly often these LIN/CTA/PMO/... FCO routes. Every single time there's a politician or whoever is important, famous, etc...


When we landed throngs of passengers ran to customer service..


I truely believe it, from a flight from PMO.


Us included, they told us that they booked us on the next day's flight, and we had to be at the airport at 5:30 am for a 7:30 flight... I asked if we could take a later flight.. No, was the answer..


Maybe no availability that evening? Hard to believe it during the last week of July? It's months since the last time I flew an AZ flight that it wasn't full.


I will pay for it...


They're AZ ground staff, not TAs.


No. ok I want to take my suitcases and fly another airline ( I was planning on buying the ticket) no, you can't take the suitcase.


No, you can't. It's obvious...


Madame you have to go to this hotel, you will be transported there fed and brought back the next day...



Correct: in accordance with the Regulation 261. ^


I put my head down and went out trying to find the shuttle. Mind you it was a nightmare finding a door that opened. All doors were closed.

This is the rule at FCO late in the evening for security reason, I remember after midnight through 5am - unless it was another time and therefore some maintenance was in progress.
Was that late? This may explain why there was no availability, no rerouting option and such...



Finally found one... Finding the shuttle was another horror story... But the worst was the "hotel" Satellite Palace hotel... a pseudo hotel.. a boarding house. Nightmare or nightmares. The hordes of people coming in... and there is no registration counter, or check out place. Went to the room... rat and cockroach infested... Called Amex and asked them to reserve me a room in a decent hotel, took my passport and left..



Finally something to complain, truely, although at this stage I think that even a night at Quirinale wasn't enough...


Would I fly AZ again... No...

www.netjets.com

How would you reroute PMO-FCO ? Of course she was shrugging.
And it is a small airport, shuttle or walk is all you get.

There were flight going to Bologna, we could have gone on that one... And please do not tell me it couldn't be done...

We could have gone there and then to Rome.

I
Every single day I step in an airport, I wonder how those people can manage to keep cool...







Maybe no availability that evening? Hard to believe it during the last week of July? It's months since the last time I flew an AZ flight that it wasn't full.



I wasn't asking AZ to find me a flight, American express found one for us, all I wanted was our suitcases. And honey I am NOT a novice flier. I fly TATL twice a month. I have more miles on BA than I care to know...



www.netjets.com

Funny not only do I have an account with netjets, I am a big share holder.

You can argue as much as you'd like... This is what happened to us. Had they not held our suitcases, I would have called netjets. We couldn't take them out.

The last one who wants to see people out of a job is me, all AZ had to do is improve their customer service... Simple.

I wasn't talking about aircrafts, they were fine, and really the FA said that nothing was wrong the the plane...

Honey I have been flying over 50 years, on all kinds of planes, Concord included.

The last one who wants to see people out of a job is me, all AZ had to do is improve their customer service... Simple.

Spot on ^ Even though this is never going to happen simply because we're talking about an Italian company here and, extremely sorry to say (I was work-based in Italy for many years and still got a few good pals), but customer service culture down there is basically next-to-nil :td:

Spot on ^ Even though this is never going to happen simply because we're talking about an Italian company here and, extremely sorry to say (I was work-based in Italy for many years and still got a few good pals), but customer service culture down there is basically next-to-nil :td:

I gave directions to my italian office to never use AZ. I will never again in my entire life step foot on an Italian plane and no, I am not an angry US tourist whose wife got angry during an award flight to Venice or Rome...

AZ, followed by MXP are an absolute desaster. Period.

I gave directions to my italian office to never use AZ. I will never again in my entire life step foot on an Italian plane and no, I am not an angry US tourist whose wife got angry during an award flight to Venice or Rome...

AZ, followed by MXP are an absolute desaster. Period.

YOu are lucky the Alitalia diehards are on vacation! I completely agree with you but even making my point humurously has upset these very sensitive folks in time past.... :-)

Every single day I step in an airport, I wonder how those people can manage to keep cool...

So do I, sometimes. But that is their job. If you can't keep cool when a customer is shouting at you, you are in the wrong job. I live in France and the standard of service here in that respect is truly terrible as well. They may know their stuff but too many of them are totally incapable of putting the customer first and not arguing as if they were in the pub.

I am not a novice traveller, but what got me miffed was waiting for a politician, and he didn't even sit in the front.

This wait ricochet and had many other passengers scrambling to find their connections.. When I went to the counter, there was no, we apologize or anything. There was a very mechanical, here is this this and that, you will be fed etc etc etc. Mind you that was at 11 pm, when I asked to be put on a later flight to Paris, the cold answer was NO, I said I'd pay for it... NO.. I said then I will take another airline can I have my luggage please... answer NO...

Customer service is all I asked for..And btw I wasn't shouting at her, it isn't in my nature to shout at anyone.

So do I, sometimes. But that is their job. If you can't keep cool when a customer is shouting at you, you are in the wrong job. I live in France and the standard of service here in that respect is truly terrible as well. They may know their stuff but too many of them are totally incapable of putting the customer first and not arguing as if they were in the pub.

I think the whole point here is that in Britain we're used to much higher standards in terms of customer service - in any degree eg. from the bus driver to the local post office, from the local shop to the DVLA, from the local garage to the GP; when therefore we face such shambles, it is really hard to not get angry or to keep calm at least. I remember myself, after just a short time of living in Italy, constantly 'pushing' my company in order to send me back to the UK. Certainly not because I was missing my local chippy or due to homesickness (I was based in Warsaw for a few years so that's definitely not the case), but simply because I had enough of that attitude.

I am not a novice traveller, but what got me miffed was waiting for a politician, and he didn't even sit in the front.


How do you know that he/she was a politician? Just assumptions to blame Alitalia doing a favour to a politician? He/She may be a magistrate under some enhanced security measure or somebody like that, it's very common.


This wait ricochet and had many other passengers scrambling to find their connections.. When I went to the counter, there was no, we apologize or anything. There was a very mechanical, here is this this and that, you will be fed etc etc etc.

They said that you were going to have rerouting, food and hotel..., and this is what you can get.
"Madame you have to go to this hotel, you will be transported there fed and brought back the next day...".:confused:
Do you want a draft report from the engineers, next time?


Mind you that was at 11 pm, when I asked to be put on a later flight to Paris, the cold answer was NO, I said I'd pay for it... NO.. I said then I will take another airline can I have my luggage please... answer NO...



There' are not flights after 11:40pm - considering boarding and such - to PAR, not even after 11, and even if there's a flight it may have been full.
And no, again, you can't get your personal baggage back from the BHS just because you want.



Customer service is all I asked for..And btw I wasn't shouting at her, it isn't in my nature to shout at anyone.
No, you're blaming an airline for nothing, just for the sake of blaming...

Just assumptions to blame Alitalia doing a favour to a politician?

of course, it is HIGHLY unlikely that a company that was bought by a private italian conglomerate by just skimming off the "good" part of the company (i.e. no debt) will of COURSE not do any kind of favor towards the government.

Apart from the high level of irony in the above sentence, the poster you are replying to was on a flight, delayed for "somebody" and Alitalia did not even excuse itself. Period. There is nothing positive about that.

Alitalia did suck, it sucks and it always will. Period.

So do I, sometimes. But that is their job. If you can't keep cool when a customer is shouting at you, you are in the wrong job. I live in France and the standard of service here in that respect is truly terrible as well. They may know their stuff but too many of them are totally incapable of putting the customer first and not arguing as if they were in the pub.

While generally speaking I agree with you, we're assuming an ordinary relationship between a customer and airline/airport/security/... staff, where if something goes wrong in terms of CRM, it's usually because of the staff, and usually complaints aren't completely groundless.
Nowadays, I see this sort of relationship going down the tubes.

Customers are not always right, customer are not always polite, customers are not always fair. Customers may be rude, aggressive, clever, unreasonably demanding or unaware of the basics, unable to meet any std for a decent relationship with workers and other pax. They can even assault staff...

This change dramatically the perspective and how staff shall deal with customers. And anyway, this changes the way complaints from customers must be assessed.

to was on a flight, delayed for "somebody" and Alitalia did not even excuse itself. Period. There is nothing positive about that.

Alitalia did suck, it sucks and it always will. Period.

There's no evidence that the flight was delayed for a politician, just to do a favour. Period.
This is just your assumption based on a report plenty of assumptions - and what assumptions...

I think the whole point here is that in Britain we're used to much higher standards in terms of customer service - in any degree eg. from the bus driver to the local post office, from the local shop to the DVLA, from the local garage to the GP; when therefore we face such shambles, it is really hard to not get angry or to keep calm at least. I remember myself, after just a short time of living in Italy, constantly 'pushing' my company in order to send me back to the UK. Certainly not because I was missing my local chippy or due to homesickness (I was based in Warsaw for a few years so that's definitely not the case), but simply because I had enough of that attitude.

While agree with you about a higher level of customer service in the UK, honestly I think you're overrating it.
I deal with UK companies every single day, and what you always get is a nice, polite behaviour of CSRs, at any stage - and unfortunately you don't get that in Italy. But when it's about substantial CS, well, that's another story...

There's no evidence that the flight was delayed for a politician, just to do a favour. Period.
This is just your assumption based on a report plenty of assumptions - and what assumptions...

We always have to generalize when talking about flight problems, especially in the service segment. Theoretically one could analyze the personal life of each and every person working a specific flight in order to find the "reason".

When in Italy, I do spend a good amount of time at MXP (for reasons other than flying) and the stories I hear when AZ and ground crew in general are out for lunch or on a cigarette break are HAIR RISING to say the least.

MXP is a disaster, this is not an assumption. AZ is a rotten company, it was before and it is now, otherwise one could not explain why LHI crews where happy to work "in a positive work environment".

We have a situation where a foreigner noted a big delay because of "somebody" and an appaling reaction from AZ and ground staff. Now to state that this is a unique occurrence or a total exemption is a bit like hearing Italian politicians who are corrupt to the brim say that the accusation are "out of this world".

We always have to generalize when talking about flight problems, especially in the service segment. Theoretically one could analyze the personal life of each and every person working a specific flight in order to find the "reason".

When in Italy, I do spend a good amount of time at MXP (for reasons other than flying) and the stories I hear when AZ and ground crew in general are out for lunch or on a cigarette break are HAIR RISING to say the least.

MXP is a disaster, this is not an assumption. AZ is a rotten company, it was before and it is now, otherwise one could not explain why LHI crews where happy to work "in a positive work environment".

We have a situation where a foreigner noted a big delay because of "somebody" and an appaling reaction from AZ and ground staff. Now to state that this is a unique occurrence or a total exemption is a bit like hearing Italian politicians who are corrupt to the brim say that the accusation are "out of this world".

Just to give a quick feedback about people reports, almost all the supposed-to-be AZ staff at MXP, those getting in touch with pax , was ans is actually from SEA, the airport company, providing services to other airlines too. AZ outsourced most of the activities to them. Even the uniforms were different, but still year after year I hear of AZ staff at MXP...

The foreigner noted a 45' delay, maybe on the last flight of the day. It missed a connection to PAR. Period, this is what AZ can be blamed for, and shall be blamed for.
Is this discussion about AZ flight regularity? Nope, it's about LHI, NetJets shareholders, the politicians, MXP, the favours, the investigations and such. :td:

Just to give a quick feedback about people reports, almost all the supposed-to-be AZ staff at MXP, those getting in touch with pax , was ans is actually from SEA, the airport company, providing services to other airlines too. AZ outsourced most of the activities to them. Even the uniforms were different, but still year after year I hear of AZ staff at MXP...

The foreigner noted a 45' delay, maybe on the last flight of the day. It missed a connection to PAR. Period, this is what AZ can be blamed for, and shall be blamed for.
Is this discussion about AZ flight regularity? Nope, it's about LHI, NetJets shareholders, the politicians, MXP, the favours, the investigations and such. :td:

The OP (who I note you call the ""foreigner"" :rolleyes:) posted a sequenced series of events in which the airline, in her opinion, fell short of standards. We all must draw our own conclusion fromm this post and like JohnDp and based on my experience of Alitalia I find the post credible.

There is a lot to complain about. Why not return baggage on a delayed overnight layover? Thats been done for me even with international layovers in the past. Why not try and be a nit more responsive and informative? Its not enough for some of us that the airline stuck to the rules.. rules are a legal floor and just playing by them is not customer service.

The netjets point was gratuitous The OP did not start it, someone else did. She responded in kind . And robustly. ^

The OP (who I note you call the ""foreigner"" :rolleyes:)


Foreigner was a ref from the JohnDP's post...


posted a sequenced series of events in which the airline, in her opinion, fell short of standards. We all must draw our own conclusion fromm this post and like JohnDp and based on my experience of Alitalia I find the post credible.

There is a lot to complain about. Why not return baggage on a delayed overnight layover? Thats been done for me even with international layovers in the past.


Customer opinion doesn't matter always. If there're no other flights to PAR late in the night after 11pm and AZ cannot reroute her immediately, does that meaning that AZ falls short of stds? Do you think AZ is happy to pay hotels to customers? Do all airlines have flights to all destinations 24/7?

if the baggage is already routed with a short layove,r would you be able to get it back from the BHS upon request? Where? Can I fly FCO-CDG-X, reach out the staff at CDG to get my baggage back and then complain if they don't retrieve the bag?


Why not try and be a nit more responsive and informative? Its not enough for some of us that the airline stuck to the rules.. rules are a legal floor and just playing by them is not customer service.


Why should we believe to any single complaint? Who tells that they're weren't responsive and informative based on common stds - assuming there're?
The FF? Ok, did the rest of the complaints were consistent the industry stds? The baggage from the BHS, the reouting PMO-/BLQ/-FCO (...), the flight after 11pm and such? She gave her opinion, and there's objective reasons to state that her expectations were beyond what an airline can reasonably do, and so they're no good reason to complain other than the missed connection itself. It's not a matter of pax credibility, it's a matter of service delivery vs rules and stds for such a flight.

Foreigner was a ref from the JohnDP's post...



Customer opinion doesn't matter always. If there're no other flights to PAR late in the night after 11pm and AZ cannot reroute her immediately, does that meaning that AZ falls short of stds? Do you think AZ is happy to pay hotels to customers? Do all airlines have flights to all destinations 24/7?

if the baggage is already routed with a short layove,r would you be able to get it back from the BHS upon request? Where? Can I fly FCO-CDG-X, reach out the staff at CDG to get my baggage back and then complain if they don't retrieve the bag?


Why should we believe to any single complaint? Who tells that they're weren't responsive and informative based on common stds - assuming there're?
The FF? Ok, did the rest of the complaints were consistent the industry stds? The baggage from the BHS, the reouting PMO-/BLQ/-FCO (...), the flight after 11pm and such? She gave her opinion, and there's objective reasons to state that her expectations were beyond what an airline can reasonably do, and so they're no good reason to complain other than the missed connection itself. It's not a matter of pax credibility, it's a matter of service delivery vs rules and stds for such a flight.


Fair post... we can agree to disagree... (I got my back back at MAN which is a smaller airport (like Palermo??) but never mind)

Just to give a quick feedback about people reports, almost all the supposed-to-be AZ staff at MXP, those getting in touch with pax , was ans is actually from SEA, the airport company, providing services to other airlines too. AZ outsourced most of the activities to them.

You are fully correct, at my home base in ZRH things get very often handled by Swissport staff BUT if they cause a problem, it is still the responsibility of LX.

Btw. I don't think that sharing experiences about an AZ base regarding staff is something that is not good for an AZ topic. Too many people come to "Bella Italia" thinking the will have the time of their life, but hey, very often than not people leave Italy, by means of AZ for example, with a very sour impression.

@rathin100: regarding my use of "foreigner", I don't see it as a derogatory term. When I travel to Brasil, I am a foreigner. It's the very definition of the word.

You are fully correct, at my home base in ZRH things get very often handled by Swissport staff BUT if they cause a problem, it is still the responsibility of LX.


Btw, regarding my use of "foreigner", I don't see it as a derogatory term. When I travel to Brasil, I am a foreigner. It's the very definition of the word.

That was my fault apologies to both. In the English language there is a difference in meaning between ""a foreigner"" and ""the foreigner."" This, I am sure unintentional, transition in the article was what caused the confusion ( if you look at your posts _;) ). I should have seen that and refrained from comment, sorry about that.

Madame, you were NOT on the flight with us, we were 5 ladies, coming back from a wonderful vacation in Palermo.

The said gentleman who caused the flight to be delayed WAS a politician, how do I know that...1- He and his body guards came through the VIP area, I saw him, I was sitting in a window seat. When he boarded, he shock hands with some passengers including the gentleman next to me. I asked my neighbor who he was, and he mentioned the name, it alludes me, when I asked what he did he said that he was a parliamentarian.

Netjets, was mentioned by you madame, I only, and there is where my mistake was, alluded that yes I could have called them.

The hotel isn't a hotel, but a quasi dorm style rooms.. And trying to find stop # 12 at Rome airport is a huge quandary, not even the police knew where it was.. And btw it isn't the first one, it is wayyy under the passageway. Oh I didn't even mention trying to find the shuttle did I?

And I have had my luggage returned upeon request, maybe AZ doesn't do that, have no idea. I was in Rome and not Palermo. I asked to catch a later flight than the one they put us in, NO was the answer. I said that I would like to take my luggage (our luggage, since we were 5) No was the answer.

And the next day, when we caught the flight to CDG, the agent said that our luggage was on our flight, the same one... Well guess what... No it wasn't. We had to go to luggage claim and file a report, the lady at that office rolled her eyes when we showed her AZ's stubs. And if you don't believe me I have names that I can provide you and you can contact them. Luckily for me, I document EVERYTHING, name, phones and badge numbers.

You can apologize for AZ as much as you'd like, this is what happened to us, 5 people.

, but hey, very often than not people leave Italy, by means of AZ for example, with a very sour impression.

You took this sentence right out of my mouth. We had a great time sailing around the Island and even planned on going to Sardegna later on in the summer, after this incidence, we aren't going to risk it, instead I am going to Greece. And when people ask us about out trip the story always ends with that awful experience.


@rathin100: regarding my use of "foreigner", I don't see it as a derogatory term. When I travel to Brasil, I am a foreigner. It's the very definition of the word.

I have no problem with this, I am a foreigner after all, I am not Italian.

And btw I am NOT the OP, I just posted my/our experience with AZ.

Customers are not always right, customer are not always polite, customers are not always fair. Customers may be rude, aggressive, clever, unreasonably demanding or unaware of the basics, unable to meet any std for a decent relationship with workers and other pax. They can even assault staff...

This change dramatically the perspective and how staff shall deal with customers. And anyway, this changes the way complaints from customers must be assessed.

Of course customers can be rude or aggressive etc. But the hallmark of good customer service is for the "customer servant" (for want of a better word) not to respond in kind. (Of course assault is something else entirely, as is disobeying an instruction from someone in authority e.g. the captain or a flight attendant.). That is what one notices particularly in France and (to a lesser extent) in Italy - the feeling that you are expected to be grateful that the "customer servant" is serving you at all, instead of putting his or her own interests first.

I'm not expecting to form a "decent relationship" with them, I just expect to be served. That's all.

I was never rude nor aggressive... All I wanted, after being told that no we couldn't take a later flight than the 7:30 am, was to get our suitcases and we could manage from there.

And btw since July 1, I had been to 3 continents before going to Palermo...

Alice11 can refute whatever and however she wants with what happened to us... This is 5 voices telling there friends and who ever asks them about their experience. Multiply that and you'll get more people not wanteimg or apprehensive next time they want or have a choice of taking AZ...Simple




Thisnis why I posted my experience here, because the OP was apprehensive about taking AZ...

I was never ruder nor aggressive...

The reference to rude or aggressive behaviour that I made wasn't related to your case, just a general comment about how the situation is deteriorating, at least in Italy, and staff is increasingly under pressure.

The reference to rude or aggressive behaviour that I made wasn't related to your case, just a general comment about how the situation is deteriorating, at least in Italy, and staff is increasingly under pressure.

I don't care if the staff is under pressure or not, they just lost a few customers. My son just called me and asked why we were going to Greece instead of Sardegnia, I told him of my recent experience.... And something else wasn't available... Therefore I don't want to go this again, therefore Greece it is...

In the spring of 2009, I flew JFK-FCO-VCE on Alitalia.

I arrived at JFK T1 about 2 hours before my departure and checked one bag.

The flights (in Y) were perfectly fine, nothing spectacular, but they were on time and service was perfectly professional.

Flight from FCO to VCE was on an ancient MD-80, but, again, everything was fine.

When I arrived at VCE, my bag did not show. Yikes! I went to the baggage office, which at VCE, is handled by a sub-contractor. I filled out a form and was told that I would be informed when my bag would arrive.

My trip to Italy involved moving from town to town virtually on a daily basis. Every day I called the phone number for the baggage sub-contractor, but no one ever answered and the automatic system was useless.

Finally, we decided to call AZ in the U.S. It turned out the bag never made the flight in the first place because TSA had inspected it after the x-rays established I had packed some walkie talkies (no lithium batteries). Apparently, they didn't think it was important to get my bag back to the airline and on the flight, or any flight, for that matter.

AZ NYC then sent my bag onto VCE and then to Trieste where I could pick it up. It had been nearly a week since I arrived in Italy, and it was definitely time for a change of clothes...;)

Funny post-script is that about five days after I picked my bag at the Trieste airport, I got a phone call from the Trieste baggage office informing me that my bag was in Trieste and "ready for pick up."

The moral of the story? AZ may be a little clunky and inefficient, but nothing sows chaos like the TSA...;)

In the spring of 2009, I flew JFK-FCO-VCE on Alitalia.


The moral of the story? AZ may be a little clunky and inefficient, but nothing sows chaos like the TSA...;)

TSA did the same thing to me LGA MIA last month I was a first class passengeron AA, no transfers. I was quite surprised at how clueless AA were about it I had to literally threaten them with a lawsuit to get them to check with TSA in LGA and it turned out that they had kept my bag back for inspection (there was a laptop in it battery removed) and like you say, never bothered to put it back.

Even so, your story inidcates yet another example of why Alitalia, even post proivatisation, is an airline to be avoided.

Do the TSA look out especially for electronic gadgets without batteries? If so, that's useful to know.

Do the TSA look out especially for electronic gadgets without batteries? If so, that's useful to know.

Perhaps, although in my case the electronic gadgets did have batteries, just not lithium batteries, which are prohibited from being checked.

TSA did the same thing to me LGA MIA last month I was a first class passengeron AA, no transfers. I was quite surprised at how clueless AA were about it I had to literally threaten them with a lawsuit to get them to check with TSA in LGA and it turned out that they had kept my bag back for inspection (there was a laptop in it battery removed) and like you say, never bothered to put it back.

Even so, your story inidcates yet another example of why Alitalia, even post proivatisation, is an airline to be avoided.Actually, I think Alitalia, while certainly not on the top of my list of the world's best airlines, was the party least at fault in this case.

And while i certainly don't blame the TSA for inspecting my bag (nothing is more important than security), they ought to have seen to it that my bag was delivered back to the airline.

Then there was the baggage contractor in Venice. They were totally useless.

And finally, there was the baggage guy in Trieste, who hilariously called me five days after I picked up my bag to tell me my bag was "ready to be picked up."

But Alitalia got me to my destination in one piece and eventually delivered my bag. Of course, they could have been slightly more proactive, but I'm not sure any other carrier would have been much different in a similar circumstance.

I woul treat Venice and trieste failures as AZ failures ... You subcontract or outsource you take responsibility for the consequences..

Do the TSA look out especially for electronic gadgets without batteries? If so, that's useful to know.

No clue... They had certainly handled my laptop and rummaged in my bag... They didn't steal anything of value though....

I woul treat Venice and trieste failures as AZ failures ... You subcontract or outsource you take responsibility for the consequences..
Yes, except that these sub-contractors handle all the carriers in each of these airports, not just AZ.

So I think it's more a failure of the system, but not necessarily AZ.

And, Lord knows, the system in Italy certainly has its foibles ;)

I would underline that not a single strike affected Alitalia staff in the last 30 months.
Dear el porco volante..........are you making a BIIIIIIIIG mix with the Old and the NEW company? I believe it

At least 50 flights in the last 6 months....always on late and even in advance.....I think u're unlike.....with time was planned ur flight to rome?

Perhaps, although in my case the electronic gadgets did have batteries, just not lithium batteries, which are prohibited from being checked.

Really?? So you can't carry mobile phones, small cameras etc etc in checked luggage, but have to have them in hand luggage? I learn something new every day - it's true that I haven't been to the US for several years now.

Really?? So you can't carry mobile phones, small cameras etc etc in checked luggage, but have to have them in hand luggage? I learn something new every day - it's true that I haven't been to the US for several years now.You can check those items, just not with the lithium batteries.

The concern is the flammability of these batteries and, as far as I know, it's an international rule, not just applicable in the U.S.

Here is a link to an article explaining the basis for the ban:

http://www.informationweek.com/news/205206086

Can someone please clarify the battery rule regarding cell phones and cameras? I will be taking both on Alitalia and will not have any checked luggage, just a carry on. My camera uses AA batteries and I don't know if the battery in my Blackberry is lithium or not. Am I understanding correctly that I cannot take them if they are not in checked luggage?

Can someone please clarify the battery rule regarding cell phones and cameras? I will be taking both on Alitalia and will not have any checked luggage, just a carry on. My camera uses AA batteries and I don't know if the battery in my Blackberry is lithium or not. Am I understanding correctly that I cannot take them if they are not in checked luggage?


The opposite No problem in hand baggage May be a problem in hcecked baggage So you are good!

Thanks! After reading the article hyperlinked in a previous post, I realized my error.

I made the Milan-JFK-Milan roundtrip in July on the new Airbus 330. The plane, since it's new, is in an excellent condition and the IFE has a wide range of choiches. Cabin crew and food are a hit and miss, but in general I was satisfied with them. Best part of the trip: they didn't loose my bags, and I don't think any others on my flight did :p

Can someone please clarify the battery rule regarding cell phones and cameras? I will be taking both on Alitalia and will not have any checked luggage, just a carry on. My camera uses AA batteries and I don't know if the battery in my Blackberry is lithium or not. Am I understanding correctly that I cannot take them if they are not in checked luggage?
The rule is not specific to AZ, it's just that lithium batteries may not be checked (they can be brought into the cabin).

Standard AA batteries are not lithium, they're fine.

As long as you bring your Blackberry on board with you (which presumably you will) there will be no problem.

Also, in reality, many lithium batteries are checked, as long as they are small they seem to evade the scrutiny of the scanners.

If the A300's are newer (and cleaner and in good condition) I will be satisfied that the extra money paid for the Classica Plus section is worth it. I am crabby if I am tired and can't sleep well in coach. Heck, who really can???? These seats are supposed to be wider with greater incline and have a foot rest that pops up. Of course, first class would be awesome but out of my budget! If they only served pretzels and soda, I would be fine with that as long as the seating is more spacious and more comfortable than coach. I need to be coherent when I hit the ground running in Milan and that won't be the case if I don't get "some" sleep. And, taking off on time would be a bonus.:)

The rule is not specific to AZ, it's just that lithium batteries may not be checked (they can be brought into the cabin).

Standard AA batteries are not lithium, they're fine.

As long as you bring your Blackberry on board with you (which presumably you will) there will be no problem.

Also, in reality, many lithium batteries are checked, as long as they are small they seem to evade the scrutiny of the scanners.

Hold on, not as bad as that. I just checked the hyperlink (my bolding):

Starting Jan. 1, airline passengers will no longer be allowed to pack loose lithium batteries in checked luggage, the U.S. Transportation Department's Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration warned late last week.

Instead, passengers will be required to take loose batteries with them in carry-on baggage, packed in plastic bags. The new regulation, which will go into effect in order to lessen the risk of lithium battery fires, won't apply to lithium batteries that are already installed in electronic devices, such as laptops, cell phones, and cameras. Those can be checked in.

Additionally, only two spare rechargeable lithium batteries will be allowed on airplanes per passenger in carry-on bags.

So you're ok unless you're in the habit of carrying around spare separate batteries for your devices, in which case you need to take them (and only two) in your carry-on.

Hold on, not as bad as that. I just checked the hyperlink (my bolding):



So you're ok unless you're in the habit of carrying around spare separate batteries for your devices, in which case you need to take them (and only two) in your carry-on.

BAAZ, thanks for the clarification.

My confusion comes from the fact that I work in the video business and we travel with a lit of lithium batteries that are externally attached to our equipment.

But what is strange, then, is why TSA singled out my bag on the trip I took on AZ JFK-FCO-VCE, when all I had were prosumer walkie-talkies with non-lithium AA batteries...

If the A300's are newer (and cleaner and in good condition) I will be satisfied that the extra money paid for the Classica Plus section is worth it. I am crabby if I am tired and can't sleep well in coach. Heck, who really can???? These seats are supposed to be wider with greater incline and have a foot rest that pops up. Of course, first class would be awesome but out of my budget! If they only served pretzels and soda, I would be fine with that as long as the seating is more spacious and more comfortable than coach. I need to be coherent when I hit the ground running in Milan and that won't be the case if I don't get "some" sleep. And, taking off on time would be a bonus.:)

Y+ is porbably a good choice for sleeping thanks to the extra legroom and the cabin is also separate from the Economy section so it might be calmer. However apart from this and the extra miles the premium economy is very similar to the normal economy.

Y+ is porbably a good choice for sleeping thanks to the extra legroom and the cabin is also separate from the Economy section so it might be calmer. However apart from this and the extra miles the premium economy is very similar to the normal economy.

+ much bigger TV screen