South America - Why are Chile and Brazil so expensive?

I am in Chile right now and the prices here are on par with the US and many times even exceed the US. For instance I went to Viña Del Mar today, to a Mexican restaurant that was rather ordinary and the burrito was $17 :eek: In Valparaiso, a local fast food chain wanted $8 for a simple hamburger and then when I asked if fries came with it they said it's $3 extra for fries ...... all the prices in the other restaurants were the same.

I have heard prices in Brazil are even higher which I really can't fathom... I am going there in a few weeks.

When I checked the stats:

per capita GDP of the United States (2010): $47, 275
per capita GDP of Chile (2010): $11,929
per capita GDP of Brazil (2010): $10,471

how can such price levels be explained, how is it sustainable and how do people survive there?

In another comparison, Bolivia, has a per capita GDP of $4,700, but everything there is about 10-15% as expensive as the US... it's more realistic. For instance, I got a great private room in La Paz, Bolivia in a nice hotel for $8/night!! LOL!

Moving thread to the FT South America Forum.
Obscure2k
TravelBuzz Moderator

Without getting into complex Economics, Monetary and Exchange Rate theories... I will just say that perhaps you should be asking yourself why the US Dollar has become such a relatively weak currency....

Check the stats on the nominal USD prices for similar goods & services (and GDP stats) some 10 years ago and you will see what Im talking about..... and, while you are at it, perhaps you should talk to your financial advisor about that 401K and nest egg you have and what currencies the assets are tied to....? ;)

$ is weak.

Plus, you are probably in all the touristy places that love to charge tourist prices.

Even aside from the US - <xyz> exchange rates issue, it's a good question that I've wondered about. For example, in Turkey/Istanbul: the cost of public transport even for locals is approximately NYC-level prices, yet their relative income level is as you say, in the low $10,000/yr. How can they afford this? Or is the economy that segregated?

$ is weak.

Plus, you are probably in all the touristy places that love to charge tourist prices.

nope, restaurant full of locals...not a single tourist in sight, at least nobody from the west. A lot of backpacking type tourists don't come here for obvious reasons ;) They go directly from Bolivia to Argentina.

There very well could be a high disparity between restaurant prices and food (supermarket) prices. I know this is the case in places like Scandinavia. Chileans (and likely Scandinavians) probably don't eat out much compared to Americans, where the price disparity isn't as stark, and certainly not as much as visitors/tourists, who find the vast majority of their meals in restaurants.

Or maybe Chileans REALLY like Mexican food?

Brazil has become so expensive in the last several years because of:

- USD devaluation (encouraging importing of goods)
- Real appreciation (killing export of goods)
- inflation
- high personal debt driving up demand

For tourists, Brazil is 4 times more expensive now that it was 7 years ago.

Mexican food in Chile is a rare, imported and not very delicious item. Every year (at least once a year) I bring a friend down there refried beans in a can, and perhaps some other item, like chile in adobo sauce. There are a few things going on - the economy is strong, inflation has been higher than in the US over the past 10 years, and the US$ is in the tank. On my "peak" exchange trip in (probably) 2003 or so, I was receiving almost CL$750 for US$1. Fast forward to now at $460 or so, plus inflation, and it is a much more expensive place.

There is still plenty of "affordable" food but you aren't going to find it in the better neighborhoods or in touristvilles. Unless you can live on mote con huesillos and not vomit, you will spend a fair amount of money on food. On my last trip, I ate at a modest parrilla in the centro, and prices were fair, including the house pisco sour (Capel) at under $1.000. Modest end acceptable wines (i.e., not Gato) were reasonable. Meat dishes were reasonable. Nothing was cheap.

I can't even imagine Brazil right now. I was last there 6 years ago and it was already getting expensive at $2.20 to $1.

Plus, the restaurant is not charging you "$17" for a burrito. It's charging you X number of pesos. If that's what the dollar price turns out to be for you it isn't really the restaurant's doing.

Even aside from the US - <xyz> exchange rates issue, it's a good question that I've wondered about. For example, in Turkey/Istanbul: the cost of public transport even for locals is approximately NYC-level prices, yet their relative income level is as you say, in the low $10,000/yr. How can they afford this? Or is the economy that segregated?

Transportation cost is mainly driven by
- energy cost: pretty much everywhere the same if based on petrol price (electric cars/busses are still far away)
- infrastructure cost: train, railways are made by few suppliers (changing as more and more chinese products arrive) priced at same price everywhere in the world whatever GNP/cap is in the country. Ex : a plane made by Airbus/boeing is sold roughly the same price to American airlines or Birman airways. average seat price is reflecting this as cost of plane is a major part of flight ticket, as fuel

Final cost to consumer is differientated in many cases by level of public subvention, directly by lowering final price by law, either by subsiding the energy cost as a vital social parameter

Transportation cost is mainly driven by
- energy cost: pretty much everywhere the same if based on petrol price (electric cars/busses are still far away)
- infrastructure cost: train, railways are made by few suppliers (changing as more and more chinese products arrive) priced at same price everywhere in the world whatever GNP/cap is in the country. Ex : a plane made by Airbus/boeing is sold roughly the same price to American airlines or Birman airways. average seat price is reflecting this as cost of plane is a major part of flight ticket, as fuel

Final cost to consumer is differientated in many cases by level of public subvention, directly by lowering final price by law, either by subsiding the energy cost as a vital social parameter

Sorry... but I think you are missing one huge and important point... public transportation costs are hugely influenced by subsidies... in many countries the price has zero connection to the actual cost, its a political issue and part of a larger economic policy. Oil prices are also a bad benchmark, because in some countries Oil is a State owned thing and therefore prices of gasoline and other fuels are also not pure market price..... a good example of this is Mexico, Iran and Venezuela also come to mind.... its not a simple and lineal thing...

per capita GDP of Chile (2010): $11,929


A friend's simple little apartment in the centro of Santiago (a tiny one bedroom one bath, little kitchen, in a safe building with doorman in an ok enough neighborhood) costs him approx. US$200/mo. Public transit within the city is in the US$1 range per ride. A burrito is US$17.

A friend's simple little apartment in the centro of Santiago (a tiny one bedroom one bath, little kitchen, in a safe building with doorman in an ok enough neighborhood) costs him approx. US$200/mo. Public transit within the city is in the US$1 range per ride. A burrito is US$17.

That's an interesting rent/burrito price ratio (~12). If my rent was based on local burrito prices, I'd only be paying $60 a month! But if burrito prices were based on my current rent, each burrito would cost about $120!!!

Great, now I want a burrito... :D

A friend's simple little apartment in the centro of Santiago (a tiny one bedroom one bath, little kitchen, in a safe building with doorman in an ok enough neighborhood) costs him approx. US$200/mo. Public transit within the city is in the US$1 range per ride. A burrito is US$17.
That is an incredible price for a newer (within past 12 years) controlled access dpto in Centro. With or without gastos comunes, with or without parking space? If this was a past year rental, I wonder if it is because of undisclosed EQ damage or danger? Old apartments in Centro can go for that but might come with pests or other issues.

Chile is still cheap if you go for home cooked meals and live outside of Santiago and resort areas but most visitors do not have that option.

Local feria (farmers type markets) produce, shopping butcher shops for meats, living on the coast and buying the day's catch at the local fish market are still cheap.

Chile has a major energy problem (reliance on hydrocarbons with hardly any domestic production) and this contributes to the price inflation as venders just pass the price on to the consumer.

That is an incredible price for a newer (within past 12 years) controlled access dpto in Centro. With or without gastos comunes, with or without parking space? If this was a past year rental, I wonder if it is because of undisclosed EQ damage or danger? Old apartments in Centro can go for that but might come with pests or other issues.


No parking, and the building is older, but in ok shape. (Rental before the EQ). And it is tiny. The same thing in San Francisco would be $1500+ in a similar neighborhood. (Just trying to give some price reference points on per capita stats and how people can afford to live.) His house in Independencia cost about the same, but then, location location location.

Sorry... but I think you are missing one huge and important point... public transportation costs are hugely influenced by subsidies... in many countries the price has zero connection to the actual cost, its a political issue and part of a larger economic policy. Oil prices are also a bad benchmark, because in some countries Oil is a State owned thing and therefore prices of gasoline and other fuels are also not pure market price..... a good example of this is Mexico, Iran and Venezuela also come to mind.... its not a simple and lineal thing...

i think we agree :-)
i mean this by saying "Final cost to consumer is differientated in many cases by level of public subvention, directly by lowering final price by law, either by subsiding the energy cost as a vital social parameter"

Actually, i was meaning price instead of cost
Prices for consumers reflecting real cost would be unsunstainable in many third world countries and would prevent any economic activity!

Leaving exchange rates aside, its also useful to remember that as nations develop, or at least grow their economies, residents of those nations begin to grow their incomes and so prices, both nominal and relative, begin to change (ie. go up). I think its pretty much the norm that US based travelers will have to understand that the years of overseas travel on the cheap are coming to an end... at least until the Greenback poses a serious comeback or there is some other big paradigm shift.

The burrito to rent analysis, while very entretaining has its pitfalls.... and more drawbacks than advantages I believe.

I think that the Big Mac Index would be the better way to go.....

A lot of this just boils down to a strong economy on the rise, which is the case in Chile, Brazil, and Turkey. Part of it is the exchange rate, but part of it is just real inflation.

Chile seemed on par with the U.S. last time I was there, though rents were more reasonable and wine was a good deal. Brazil seems completely and totally out of whack to me no matter whether you're paying in their currency, yen, euros, or dollars. It's just a terrible value all around. So how do poor locals manage? Apparently they don't go out, they don't go anywhere, they pile 8 people in a car or 12 in an apartment. Tough way to live. The rising tide is far from lifting all boats---just as it isn't in the U.S., which the wealthy doing very well and the rest...not so much.

A big Mac combo in Brazil costs on average $9 and people are living in shanties there is so much poverty. Brazil is one of the countries with the highest rates of income inequality.

On a different note, I am now in Argentina and it is quite a bit cheaper...

For instance, a Hamburger, fries and 2 LITERS of beer in a nice place...and what is the damage, 60 pesos or about $14. In Mendoza I also had a big steak and a beer for like $10...quite cheap. Chile is just terrible, same thing would've cost $25!!

I am in Chile right now and the prices here are on par with the US and many times even exceed the US. For instance I went to Viña Del Mar today, to a Mexican restaurant that was rather ordinary and the burrito was $17 :eek: In Valparaiso, a local fast food chain wanted $8 for a simple hamburger and then when I asked if fries came with it they said it's $3 extra for fries ...... all the prices in the other restaurants were the same.

I have heard prices in Brazil are even higher which I really can't fathom... I am going there in a few weeks.

When I checked the stats:

per capita GDP of the United States (2010): $47, 275
per capita GDP of Chile (2010): $11,929
per capita GDP of Brazil (2010): $10,471

how can such price levels be explained, how is it sustainable and how do people survive there?

In another comparison, Bolivia, has a per capita GDP of $4,700, but everything there is about 10-15% as expensive as the US... it's more realistic. For instance, I got a great private room in La Paz, Bolivia in a nice hotel for $8/night!! LOL!

I was in Santiago last year and wondered the same thing. I think once you get outside Santiago/tourist areas, costs must drop significantly.

I was in Santiago last year and wondered the same thing. I think once you get outside Santiago/tourist areas, costs must drop significantly.

Even within Santiago, there are plenty of affordable eats. The fact is that most of us here would not ever visit anyplace other than a narrow portion of the Centro, Providencia, Las Condes and surrounds. Bellavista has even gone "upscale" but you can still get your "drunk food" and litres of schop for cheap.

The north is generally cheaper than the south.

In the 10 years I've been going there, my thoughts have been "Welcome to the First World, Chile, don't screw it up." The fact is, 10 years ago, most transactions were in cash, and good luck if you had only a $10,000 bill and needed change. Now, especially in the population centers, it has turned into, for many, a credit economy. They even ask if you want payments when you check out with groceries. Prices naturally go up when you don't have to pay today.

When in Rome, dine like the Romans.

Hamburgers, Fries and Burrito are not indigenous to South America.

When in Rome, dine like the Romans.

Hamburgers, Fries and Burrito are not indigenous to South America.

I agree on the Roman quote..... but, while Burritos are not indigenous, at least in larger cities of South America, Burgers and Fries are staples.... I guess its the globalization thing but thats the way I see it. Even if its not from one of the international chains, fast food is a local thing from Bali to Hawaii to Beijing.... no way to avoid it these days unless you go to the middle of the Amazon Rain Forest, its even near the Pyramids in Egypt.... a sign of the times I guess.

Even within Santiago, there are plenty of affordable eats. The fact is that most of us here would not ever visit anyplace other than a narrow portion of the Centro, Providencia, Las Condes and surrounds. Bellavista has even gone "upscale" but you can still get your "drunk food" and litres of schop for cheap.

The north is generally cheaper than the south.

In the 10 years I've been going there, my thoughts have been "Welcome to the First World, Chile, don't screw it up." The fact is, 10 years ago, most transactions were in cash, and good luck if you had only a $10,000 bill and needed change. Now, especially in the population centers, it has turned into, for many, a credit economy. They even ask if you want payments when you check out with groceries. Prices naturally go up when you don't have to pay today.

I was very busy while I was there and spent most of my time in Las Condes. I described the pricing as similar to maybe downtown Chicago. I figured that prices would be lower in certain parts of Santiago, but did not have as much time as I would have liked to explore. Beautiful city.

The economic turnaround in Chile has been the blueprint that other Latin American nations are now trying to follow.

I'm visiting Patagonia in November: flying into Punta Arenas, Chile, but also spending time on the Argentina side. Given exchange rates, I'm guessing I want to get to Argentina ASAP, right? I assume I'll get much better value.

I'm visiting Patagonia in November: flying into Punta Arenas, Chile, but also spending time on the Argentina side. Given exchange rates, I'm guessing I want to get to Argentina ASAP, right? I assume I'll get much better value.

You will probably get better value, but don't expect the Argentina side to be cheap. Inflation is rampant (the exchange rate hasn't kept up with this by a large margin). That said, the currency in Chile now lasts a lot longer. This is because it is made of plastic. You may spend it quickly, but it lasts a lot longer :p

Basically it is another (bad) effect of the bank created crisis in real estate etc in the US and Europe. And, Argentina's manipulation of the exchange rate to build domestic political support--you may recall that several earlier such manipulations ended rather badly for Argentina.

In any event, the Wall Street Journal today has a long story about Brazil and the exchange rate which may provide some additional info. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904716604576544722103262938.html?K EYWORDS=brazil (behind a paywall, the part below is what is public)

"Dark Side of Brazil's Rise
BY JOHN LYONS

SÃO PAULO—Brazil is booming amid a tectonic shift in global investing toward the developing world that has lifted its stock market, strengthened its currency and provided financing for new ports and World Cup soccer stadiums.

But while foreign investment is mostly a good thing, there are downsides. The abundance of cash has helped fund riskier bank loans and fueled a potential real-estate bubble. By some measures, the Brazilian real is now the world's most overvalued currency, and many local factories aren't competitive in global markets.

Daily life has become so expensive that movies, taxis and even a can of Coke ..."

You will probably get better value, but don't expect the Argentina side to be cheap. Inflation is rampant (the exchange rate hasn't kept up with this by a large margin). That said, the currency in Chile now lasts a lot longer. This is because it is made of plastic. You may spend it quickly, but it lasts a lot longer :p ^ ^ ^

I'm visiting Patagonia in November: flying into Punta Arenas, Chile, but also spending time on the Argentina side. Given exchange rates, I'm guessing I want to get to Argentina ASAP, right? I assume I'll get much better value.

Patagonia is not cheap on either side of the Andes.... unless you are willing to go for backpacker style services, everything you will need while in Patagonia is not going to be a bargain. As others have posted, the Chilean side may be more expensive for a few things but I dont see the savings potential on the Argentina side as being super-relevant.

Patagonia is not cheap on either side of the Andes.... unless you are willing to go for backpacker style services, everything you will need while in Patagonia is not going to be a bargain. As others have posted, the Chilean side may be more expensive for a few things but I dont see the savings potential on the Argentina side as being super-relevant.

I'm currently planning a trip to "both" Patagonias and my gut feeling is that the Argentine side is about 20% cheaper on accomodations. I do think I'll eat better in Argentina too, but that probably has as much to do with the cuisine as the prices. :)

I did think I could save a little money renting a car on the Chilean side, especially since I want an automatic transmission vehicle (much more common in Chile than in Argentina). Alas, that is not the case: more automatics are available, but they're not any cheaper -- which I guess has to do with the currency thing.

I'm currently planning a trip to "both" Patagonias and my gut feeling is that the Argentine side is about 20% cheaper on accomodations. I do think I'll eat better in Argentina too, but that probably has as much to do with the cuisine as the prices. :)

I did think I could save a little money renting a car on the Chilean side, especially since I want an automatic transmission vehicle (much more common in Chile than in Argentina). Alas, that is not the case: more automatics are available, but they're not any cheaper -- which I guess has to do with the currency thing.

If you are fan of salmon and centolla Chilean Patagonia won't disappoint. If it ain't edible unless there's still blood running out then lamb and other walking creatures on the Argentinian side will definitely be more satisfying.

The US dollar has been strengthening against almost all the S. American currencies of late. Probably has to do with the desire for a "safe haven" currency and a bit of the air coming out of the commodity bubble. That said, I wouldn't say the dollar is "strong" yet -- just not weak. And it seems like Brazil is still quite expensive.

Speaking of currency, I forgot that Ecuador now just uses the dollar. I haven't been there in years, but I'm headed there in a few months. I presume prices are affordable: lower than in, say, Chile? Maybe like Panama?

my theory finally:
- weak USD
- Northamerican lifestyle isnot like southamerican

E.g. in Chile and Argentina it was sometimes hard to find a restaurant. Reason is IMHO that these folks arenot (yet) used to go our for lunch or/and dinner. The more wealthy citizens do but they also can pay more and appreciate the trendy restaurants and bars - prices acc. to western standard - ex-changerates does the rest to feeling "it's expensive here".

A country with a lunch/dinner tradition like all over Asia but also France, Italy, Spain, Portugal has better prices than a country where this lifestyle isnot known....

Comparing restaurant (or airport/hotel food&drink) and supermarket prices it's extremely interesting to identify that in some countries there is a huge profit added when sold in restaurants, at highway filling stations, airports or hotel minibars: GERMANY is a good example: you can buy 1,5liter bottle of water in most supermarkets for 0,19 EUR but the restaurants charge you a equivalent of 12-15 EUR for such a bottle (0,7l bottle for 6-7 EUR). Airport or highway stops take the advantage of beeing the only one in the area still open and sell 0,3 Waterbottles for 3 EUR+0,25 EUR deposit (which 95% of customers will never return).

In Portugal bars sell 0,2 bottles beer for 0,50 EUR on the teracce, the supermarket sells these for 0,49 EUR :confused: but nobody would pay 1 EUR for a bottle in such places why they cannot sell it for more. In German pubs and nightclubs they sell the same 0,2 bottles for 3 EUR having it bought for 0,3 EUR:D

The big-mac index is still a very valid indicator for price level in the country.

my theory finally:
- weak USD
- Northamerican lifestyle isnot like southamerican

E.g. in Chile and Argentina it was sometimes hard to find a restaurant. Reason is IMHO that these folks arenot (yet) used to go our for lunch or/and dinner. The more wealthy citizens do but they also can pay more and appreciate the trendy restaurants and bars - prices acc. to western standard - ex-changerates does the rest to feeling "it's expensive here".

A country with a lunch/dinner tradition like all over Asia but also France, Italy, Spain, Portugal has better prices than a country where this lifestyle isnot known....

Comparing restaurant (or airport/hotel food&drink) and supermarket prices it's extremely interesting to identify that in some countries there is a huge profit added when sold in restaurants, at highway filling stations, airports or hotel minibars: GERMANY is a good example: you can buy 1,5liter bottle of water in most supermarkets for 0,19 EUR but the restaurants charge you a equivalent of 12-15 EUR for such a bottle (0,7l bottle for 6-7 EUR). Airport or highway stops take the advantage of beeing the only one in the area still open and sell 0,3 Waterbottles for 3 EUR+0,25 EUR deposit (which 95% of customers will never return).

In Portugal bars sell 0,2 bottles beer for 0,50 EUR on the teracce, the supermarket sells these for 0,49 EUR :confused: but nobody would pay 1 EUR for a bottle in such places why they cannot sell it for more. In German pubs and nightclubs they sell the same 0,2 bottles for 3 EUR having it bought for 0,3 EUR:D

The big-mac index is still a very valid indicator for price level in the country.

Mark-ups definitely differ around the world: like soda can cost more than beer in Europe sometimes. That would never happen in the USA.

I do find myself eating at home more often in the USA, perhaps because of the considerable restaurant mark-up, particularly on alcohol. With almost no effort, I can make a nice roast and open up a good bottle of wine for a tiny fraction of what this would cost me in a restaurant. So I tend to eat out more when I travel, and I try to use discounts like from restaurant.com.

Where in Argentina and Chile did you go and not find restaurants? From my experience, you have to be WAAAY off-the-beaten-path not to find restaurants in these countries. Obviously, Buenos Aires is one of the best cities in the world to eat in, and the dining tradition carriers over to much smaller locales. I don't think restaurants are quite as important to Chileans, but I've never noticed a shortage of restaurants there, either (many of them quite good, especially seafood restaurants).

Right now, the cost of visiting S. American countries seems to be fluctuating wildly, as the exchange rates are being impacted by the overall high level of worldwide financial speculation. For example, the Chilean Peso moves in lock-step with the price of copper, and the price of copper is fluctuating wildly. This seems like a ridiculous way to price anything, but so far world governments seem reluctant to curb these speculative impulses.

Where in Argentina and Chile did you go and not find restaurants? From my experience, you have to be WAAAY off-the-beaten-path not to find restaurants in these countries.

I've been through a lot of Chile, and have found what to eat out, whether it be in Santiago (at a variety of price ranges) or in Pica. The only place where I've experienced issues is in Cochiguaz, but there's really no "there" there. I can assure you that when in Iquique, even the most upscale place isn't swarming with wealthy expats, except maybe some Bolivianos that have a few $ and are on vacation. I've eaten in plenty of places where I am the only norteamericano and perhaps the only foreigner in the place.

The CL$ has been on a ride as of late -swinging up to 10% in either direction within a few days.

I tend to think that Brazil is more of a bubble than Chile and is more poised for a crash (or more serious recession) of sorts.

I tend to think that Brazil is more of a bubble than Chile and is more poised for a crash (or more serious recession) of sorts.

Yeah, the Chilean exchange rate is fluctuating wildly, but the general range isn't "crazy." Indeed, it seems to have one of the more logical valuations against the dollar, even if the basis for the movements -- almost solely on copper prices -- is the most bizarre.

Trying to make sense of any exchange rates these days is hard. I mean, the Greeks are broke, but they can visit the USA -- or pretty much anyplace outside of western Europe -- and live like kings. As a traveler, I just live with this silliness, but if I were in an import or export related business, I think it would drive me nuts!

we had rented a car in Mendoza and lived in the vineyards of Maipu. We just started our trip just a bit South to "Lujan de Cuyo" which is a quite big city even with a center. We asked in a convenience store for restaurant but they didn't even knew one. We finally found a place with simple food (milanesas) and very low prices (value just ok not like in BsAs)

Agree that Argentina resp. BsAs has great options, alos because of the Italian tradition in Argentinian blood:D

In Chile we also were looking for simple restaurants and in some areas of Santiago there were mainly cafes (for very basic dinner), Las Condes, El Golf was good for lunch but for dinner quite empty - Bella Vista is an exception!!

Holiday Inn hotels in SCL start @ 166/nt, but SCL - MDZ flight r/t is only $103.....


I think that is ironic. I am afraid to see how costly a shuttle is from MDZ - Las Lenas.

How much pricier is Brazil compared to Chile these days? I'm thinking about heading to Brazil, but if it's going to be super expensive, I think I'll just wait.

How much pricier is Brazil compared to Chile these days? I'm thinking about heading to Brazil, but if it's going to be super expensive, I think I'll just wait.

My business partner just went tarting around in Rio for 3 weeks and came back with the impression that it is mightily expensive, he spent 3 weeks in a very basic hotel for about $120 per night and came back with reports of incredibly expensive food and bars. No doubt he was firmly on the green-horn trail.

Chile I am personally finding incredibly expensive. I was there 2 years ago and didn't notice any remarkable prices as I wasn't on holiday. Travelling around though in about 2005, it was possible to rent a car for £20 and just hit the roads, when you got bored you could knock on someone's door and ask them for a cabaña for the night and it would be CLP15000. That was pretty much £15 back then.

Seems like these cabaña owners have wised up and discovered the internet. I am seeing very similar accomodation over Christmas for CLP90,000 which is a thumping US$180 for a night! So it isn't just the exchange rate, prices have gone up sometimes 400% in peso terms as well.

That car that cost £20 in 2005 now costs $70 per day, in peso terms it has more than doubled in the last 6 years.

Looking for simple accommodation in Puerto Natales for two nights and a private room with shared bathroom in a backpackers' hostel is going for around US$80 per night. I find that incredible, at least since back in SCL we are paying US$135 per night to stay in the Sheraton 4 points.

A one day tour to Torres del Paine costs US$180

Looks like the CLP is weakening a bit and my £ is now worth more than when I booked the flights about 6 weeks ago. But I guess if demand is sufficient for them to be able to charge such prices then good luck to them.

Trying to make sense of any exchange rates these days is hard. I mean, the Greeks are broke, but they can visit the USA -- or pretty much anyplace outside of western Europe -- and live like kings. As a traveler, I just live with this silliness, but if I were in an import or export related business, I think it would drive me nuts!

As a Western European myself that has been to the USA 4 times this year, I find it substantially more expensive than Europe. I cannot even pin it down to anything specific, seems like I fart and $100 has mysteriously vanished out of my pocket.

As a Western European myself that has been to the USA 4 times this year, I find it substantially more expensive than Europe. I cannot even pin it down to anything specific, seems like I fart and $100 has mysteriously vanished out of my pocket.

That could be a "pocket placement" problem :eek: :D

As a Western European myself that has been to the USA 4 times this year, I find it substantially more expensive than Europe. I cannot even pin it down to anything specific, seems like I fart and $100 has mysteriously vanished out of my pocket.

I think the USA CAN be very expensive for foreigners, even though I personally find it extremely inexpensive to live here. What's great about the USA is you can pretty much pay any price you want for everything, if you know the deals. Like flyertalkers may be familiar with how the USA banks routinely give us $500 (or its equivalent in points, miles, etc.) for taking their free credit cards. And, thanks to flyertalk, we can generally travel around the USA (in style) for very little.

But it's more than credit cards and travel. I can go on slickdeals and buy all the technology and clothing I want for next to nothing. For restaurants, it seems like there are always great promotions at the chains or you can go to restaurant.com and get coupons. If it's worth a half-hour of your time a week, you can go to the various "mommy" sites and they'll show you each week how to buy your groceries for about half price.

Of course, most Americans are not this "deal savvy" and pay more. Overseas, though, I suspect there's just not this large of "deal infrastructure" to take advantage of. That said, I routinely use sites like thefork.com to save on my European restaurant meals in the larger cities, and I see just about every country (including the S. American ones) have groupon sites. Indeed, I've noticed some great travel bargains on these.

But if you just visit the USA and don't look for a deal, I'm sure you can get sticker shock. For instance, walking into a decent NYC restaurant and paying full price. That's almost as bad as Switzerland. :)

Looks like the CLP is weakening a bit and my £ is now worth more than when I booked the flights about 6 weeks ago. But I guess if demand is sufficient for them to be able to charge such prices then good luck to them.

As detailed in my post in the Argentina forum, I recently found Chile to be relatively affordable -- and, on many items, cheaper than Argentina, where inflation is going crazy. My guess is that, for tourist purposes, Chile is about 15 to 20% cheaper than the USA: not a bargain destination, but bearable (as I noted above, in the USA it's easier to find deals -- but I'm making the comparison for a more typical traveller).

Restaurants. for example, are generally cheaper in Chile than in the USA, especially if you'd like to have a bottle of wine with dinner. Souvenirs are also affordable. Rental cars and gasoline are generally twice USA prices, however. Taxis, though, are much cheaper in Chile.

Lodging costs are hard to compare but basically comparable; with my family, Chilean cabanas are cheaper than comparable rentals in the USA. Hotel rooms are about the same, but no tax for foreigners on Chilean hotels. Judging by supermarket prices, basic goods are a little cheaper in Chile than the USA (although the USA probably has better sales).

OK I am back from Chile and it is massively more expensive than Colombia and Peru. I found it neither cheaper nor more expensive than the USA.

Gasoline is costly, I am qualified to comment on that on account of I failed to understand the transmission in my rented Toyota Corolla and inadvertently drove all the way from Puerto Montt to Valdivia in 3rd gear :mad:

It's about the same cost as the UK unless I am mistaken.

Looking for simple accommodation in Puerto Natales for two nights and a private room with shared bathroom in a backpackers' hostel is going for around US$80 per night. I find that incredible, at least since back in SCL we are paying US$135 per night to stay in the Sheraton 4 points.

Just checking on some dates for the 4 Points in March, and I'm seeing prices around $400/night. The weakening of USD couldn't account for 300% inflation over a couple years.

Just checking on some dates for the 4 Points in March, and I'm seeing prices around $400/night. The weakening of USD couldn't account for 300% inflation over a couple years.

There must be something going on having it nearly at capacity. It is consistently under $200.

Just checking on some dates for the 4 Points in March, and I'm seeing prices around $400/night. The weakening of USD couldn't account for 300% inflation over a couple years.

And that's a couple of weeks not a couple of years. I was there New Years Eve

I travelled through Chile in Oct 2011.

I did find it mostly on par with USA travel as far as expenses go. I wasn't expecting bargains though...

My time up at Valle Nevado ski slopes was much more expensive compared to what you got - a week at Aspen, Colorado or Courchevel, France would have been similar to a stay at a Motel 6 by comparison.

I guess it's a price to pay for Chile being one of the leading economies of Latin America.

OK I am back from Chile and it is massively more expensive than Colombia and Peru. I found it neither cheaper nor more expensive than the USA.

Gasoline is costly, I am qualified to comment on that on account of I failed to understand the transmission in my rented Toyota Corolla and inadvertently drove all the way from Puerto Montt to Valdivia in 3rd gear :mad:

It's about the same cost as the UK unless I am mistaken.

Chile is definitely more expensive than Peru. I don't have personal experience travelling in Columbia.

I would still maintain that Chile is somewhat cheaper for a tourist than the USA, though. The only thing that I've found to be much cheaper in the USA is operating a rental car, as rental rates and gasoline are generally cheap in the USA.

Food struck me as expensive, and more expensive than the USA

A late night sandwich in Puerto Natales cost us CLP6000 which is about US$13. If I am spending US$13 on a sandwich in the USA then it is about 24 inches high and has every filling known to man

Likewise in Santiago, we went to a fairly mediocre Peruvian restaurant, for 4 of us a lunch with Inca Kola came to CLP280,000. 140 bucks in my friend's Florida restaurant would get us 2 Maine lobsters and 4 sides each plus a couple of pitchers of beer.

Food struck me as expensive, and more expensive than the USA

A late night sandwich in Puerto Natales cost us CLP6000 which is about US$13. If I am spending US$13 on a sandwich in the USA then it is about 24 inches high and has every filling known to man

Likewise in Santiago, we went to a fairly mediocre Peruvian restaurant, for 4 of us a lunch with Inca Kola came to CLP280,000. 140 bucks in my friend's Florida restaurant would get us 2 Maine lobsters and 4 sides each plus a couple of pitchers of beer.

Your math isn't working. CL$280.000 is about US$560. I doubt your lunch was $560.

Food struck me as expensive, and more expensive than the USA

A late night sandwich in Puerto Natales cost us CLP6000 which is about US$13. If I am spending US$13 on a sandwich in the USA then it is about 24 inches high and has every filling known to man

Likewise in Santiago, we went to a fairly mediocre Peruvian restaurant, for 4 of us a lunch with Inca Kola came to CLP280,000. 140 bucks in my friend's Florida restaurant would get us 2 Maine lobsters and 4 sides each plus a couple of pitchers of beer.

Yeah, I could see how that's possible. But, on average, my experience would indicate that Chilean restaurants are cheaper than USA ones. Like I had many $10 seafood entrees that would cost almost twice that in the US. And, as I noted, wine in Chile is half the price it is in the USA.

Your math isn't working. CL$280.000 is about US$560. I doubt your lunch was $560.

Yes that's right, I remembered the cost in dollars then goofed the peso conversion

There must be something going on having it nearly at capacity. It is consistently under $200.

Actually, I just found a rate on Expedia for sub-$200 USD for one of the nights I'll be staying in Chile, but unfortunately can't find anything less than $350 or on spg in order to get stay credit.

I've been spending a significant amount of time in Chile lately (but not in Santiago) and based on my experiences I believe the reason food at restaurants (not to mention, other consumer goods as well) is so expensive (yep, it's even expensive in smaller towns) is because of a few factors:

- going out to lunch or dinner is perceived as somewhat of a luxury, whereas in the U.S. it's considered more "normal". People there do spend more when they go out to eat. And restaurants have to charge more because, at least based on my casual observation, they get less business than a typical North American restaurant would.

- Instead of going out to eat, a lot of Chileans meet for drinks instead. Try a pisco sour or glass of Chilean wine - very reasonable. Usually around 3,000 CLP ($6) at a nice bar. And you can get a great bottle of wine for only 3,000 CLP at the grocery store! Avoid imported liquor unless you want to pay huge surcharges.

- Eat the foods that locals eat (in Chile, that would involve fish and seafood, rice, beef, potatoes, empanadas, mayonaise). These foods are reasonably priced at grocery stores. Do NOT eat food that is considered luxurious (basically, anything not Chilean, including imported products and restaurants like Mexican, American chain restaurants, Greek, Italian, Chinese, anything with spices, etc.) unless you want to pay the big bucks. As others have mentioned, one factor is probably that often the very ingredients in these foods have to be flown from far away and that itself implies a surcharge.

-Many Chileans (especially in the North) work in the mining industry or industries tied closely to the mining industry, where salaries can be comparable to North American salaries (for instance, a manager in the mining industry will make roughly what a North American mining industry manager would make). These big-wigs like to feel special, so they go to restaurants and can spend big bucks on their meals. A good deal would cheapen their experience. I think consumer goods and services are also expensive for this reason. They're expensive because they can be.

- I've been told by my Brazilian friend that some of these things are also true in Brazil (for instance, restaurants and "luxury" services are expensive for the sake of being expensive and making the country's elite feel special) = but again that's just my (our) very unscientific observation! I think it's a symptom of a growing economy. On the other hand, the fact that our food and goods in the U.S. are so cheap scares me a little, but that's another story.

The bottom line, eat what the locals eat and do what the locals do and your wallet will be much happier.

The bottom line, eat what the locals eat and do what the locals do and your wallet will be much happier.

I think this is good advice. In Chile, it can be hard to find a truly "casual" restaurant -- the equivalent of a US diner. Most restaurants are "upscale" -- a dining experience, I guess. And on an apples to apples comparison, they're probably better value than an upscale restaurant in the US -- especially if you order some wine or alcoholic drinks. But you certainly don't have as many cheaper places to just grab a quick bite to eat.

I think this is good advice. In Chile, it can be hard to find a truly "casual" restaurant -- the equivalent of a US diner. Most restaurants are "upscale" -- a dining experience, I guess. And on an apples to apples comparison, they're probably better value than an upscale restaurant in the US -- especially if you order some wine or alcoholic drinks. But you certainly don't have as many cheaper places to just grab a quick bite to eat.

I don't know where you were, but I have eaten at the most basic of restaurants, all over Chile, from Punta Arenas, to Arica. Viña may be somewhat of an exception, as are isolated resort areas.