Spain/Portugal/Gibraltar - Spain - Photo Radar ticket 400 E!

Hi all,

I received a nasty surprise in the mail today - a 400 Euro photo radar ticket! I was travelling 81 in an 80 zone, and apparently it dropped to a 50 zone (residential unmarked?) with a photo spot set up.

Is there any way to argue for a tourist reduction? I know in Canada, they tend to give tourists a warning for speeding violations.

Also, will there be any repurcussions for just ignoring the ticket across any of the other Schengen countries? I can accept not being able to drive in Spain for the rest of my life...

if it was a rental car, your credit card will be charged by the rental agency, if you do not pay.

They can't - the card number was stolen and cancelled, so VISA won't accept any more charges on it.

In that case the car rental company will likely initiate debt collection proceedings against you if the transaction fails to process. They're likely to be more diligent in this than the authorities in Spain.

Huge risk, IMHO.

How did you get the fine in the mail anyway, since you don't live in Spain and don't specify if it was the rental agency that sent it to you?

You will be able to drive without problems in the rest of the Schengen area. :)

You will be able to drive without problems in the rest of the Schengen area. :)

Thanks!

I guess the rental car company must have passed that information along.

I don't believe you are at risk of being charged by the rental car company even if they had a current card number on file. Unlike parking tickets, which are issued against the vehicle, speeding tickets are issued against the driver and no rental car company in or outside the EU agrees to bear such fees.

The rental company does charge you a fee to provide your details to the police, it's usually 20 euros or less, so they may not dun you for such a small charge when they realize your card is cancelled. It's possible their agreement with Visa will allow the charge to follow to your new card number once Visa determines it is a legitimate charge, but as I said it will be minimal.

Normally you receive the ticket directly from the police or, in some instances the EMO (European Municipal Outsourcing agency). If you reside within the EU they might actually try to reduce the charge to a judgment and attempt to collect it from you, but if you're in Canada it's unlikely for a single ticket they'll do anything. If they don't do anything, it's even more unlikely that you'd have a problem in another Schengen country.

Only thing that could happen if you go again to Spain and run into a police control they will make you pay your open charge on the spot (at least that is what they do in Germany)

I can verify that speeding tickets in the EU in a rental car are not applied to the rental car company. The rental car company gives the legal authority the address of your drivers license and the ticket arrives in the post. This is true even for US DL holders.

I don't know about Spain, but some EU countries will arrest you at the border if you try to enter or leave with an unpaid speeding ticket on file. You can pay the fine on the spot and go free though.

Can I ask where in Spain this happened? I drive well over the limit on the Mediterranean coast highway and often see people passing me even faster. I've never seen a radar setup there.

I can verify that speeding tickets in the EU in a rental car are not applied to the rental car company. The rental car company gives the legal authority the address of your drivers license and the ticket arrives in the post. This is true even for US DL holders.

I don't know about Spain, but some EU countries will arrest you at the border if you try to enter or leave with an unpaid speeding ticket on file. You can pay the fine on the spot and go free though.

Can I ask where in Spain this happened? I drive well over the limit on the Mediterranean coast highway and often see people passing me even faster. I've never seen a radar setup there.

Since there are no border controls within Schengen countries, I just have to enter in a non-Spain gateway.

The ticket was on the N340 in an area near Valencia.

Only thing that could happen if you go again to Spain and run into a police control they will make you pay your open charge on the spot (at least that is what they do in Germany)

I don't know how they'd know it's me. As long as I don't have my Driver's License on me, all they have is a passport - name and a country (no address).

I don't know how they'd know it's me. As long as I don't have my Driver's License on me, all they have is a passport - name and a country (no address).

If your name is the same, and they suspect you, it's kind of up to you to prove that it wasn't you driving. Which should be easy to do with passport stamps if it truly wasn't you.

And one day Interpol will get the access they have been fighting for to link all this data across the EU, USA and elsewhere.

And one day Interpol will get the access they have been fighting for to link all this data across the EU, USA and elsewhere.

Not happening soon...
Also, speeding is not a crime, so it wouldn't even enter to any interpol database.

Since there are no border controls within Schengen countries
This is not strictly true, although practically speaking it is almost always true such that it matters.

Last december i discovered on my Amex statement an Hertz fee (approx 30€) and did not know what it was related to. I then called Amex and ask them to investigate. My last rental with Hertz was 3 months ago, back in september, in Sardinia .
Of course i was not aware about any fine for speeding or parking.
A few days after my call to Amex, i received a letter from Hertz in Sardinia.
Although it was written in italian, it stated the 30€ fee was an administrative fee for providing my details to the municipal police in Sardinia. The bad news being the fine was about 100€ for driving into a municipal forbidden area....which of course i was not aware :td:
Anyway a couple of weeks after my call to Amex, i found out they refunded the 30€ fee ^
I still did not receive the official letter from the municipal police, so i guess they gave up...:confused:

Last december i discovered on my Amex statement an Hertz fee (approx 30€) and did not know what it was related to. I then called Amex and ask them to investigate. My last rental with Hertz was 3 months ago, back in september, in Sardinia .
Of course i was not aware about any fine for speeding or parking.
A few days after my call to Amex, i received a letter from Hertz in Sardinia.
Although it was written in italian, it stated the 30€ fee was an administrative fee for providing my details to the municipal police in Sardinia. The bad news being the fine was about 100€ for driving into a municipal forbidden area....which of course i was not aware :td:
Anyway a couple of weeks after my call to Amex, i found out they refunded the 30€ fee ^
I still did not receive the official letter from the municipal police, so i guess they gave up...:confused:

I had 2 tickets in Italy sent to me approx. 1 year after the event in question - I wouldn't give up hope yet ;)

One friend of mine was stopped by the police in Finland for driving too fast, 2 years ago.

He was on the way back to the airport for his flight back to ZRH.
The police told him that they should take his driving licence. But because he was flying back the same day, they don't took it. But he had to promise that his wife will drive the remaining way to Helsinki.
And he got a bill over 1000 E, and he hasn't paid... and since then he hasn't had any problems on arrival.
But maybe he just got luck?

And he got a bill over 1000 E, and he hasn't paid... and since then he hasn't had any problems on arrival.
But maybe he just got luck?

He got really lucky. Many countries in Europe will make you pay on the spot if you are a foreigner. They know that as soon as you leave the country they won't have any chance to collect the money.

Also, speeding is not a crime, so it wouldn't even enter to any interpol database.

That is not universally true. In Ireland, for example, speeding is a crime.

That is not universally true. In Ireland, for example, speeding is a crime.

OK, my bad then.
Is definitely not a crime in PT, ES, PL, SK :)

OK, my bad then.
Is definitely not a crime in PT, ES, PL, SK :)

In most countries it will depend by how much you are speeding. A small amount over the limit will be a fine and treated the same way as a parking ticket. Large amounts over the limit are handled as criminal offences (felony in US-speak) and handled by the courts in one way or another (you might be lucky in having it handled "by correspondence" with just a fine to pay, but it is a court issuing you with fine, not a police officer with an on the spot fine).

I was in Italy with the US military about 14 years ago, and was a passenger in a car that my commander was driving.

We got on the toll road, but mistakenly entered in the "EZ-Pass" lane (rental car was not equipped for it)

When we exited the toll road, the attendent asked for our toll (entrance) ticket, which we did not have. He was not happy!

He asked for my boss' US driver's license, and issued a citation for about 100 Euros.

When we got back to the office, we looked more closely at the citation, and it was issued to "George Voinovich"

He was the Governor of Ohio, and his name was proudly listed on every Ohio license!

Should I point out here that the euro has only been in circulation for just short of 10 years?

I was in Italy with the US military about 14 years ago, and was a passenger in a car that my commander was driving.

We got on the toll road, but mistakenly entered in the "EZ-Pass" lane (rental car was not equipped for it)

When we exited the toll road, the attendent asked for our toll (entrance) ticket, which we did not have. He was not happy!

He asked for my boss' US driver's license, and issued a citation for about 100 Euros.

When we got back to the office, we looked more closely at the citation, and it was issued to "George Voinovich"

He was the Governor of Ohio, and his name was proudly listed on every Ohio license!

Haha. Reminds me of this story from Ireland:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7899171.stm

Unlike parking tickets, which are issued against the vehicle, speeding tickets are issued against the driver and no rental car company in or outside the EU agrees to bear such fees.

There are no uniform regulations in the EU. Some countries do charge speed-violations against the owner of the car (for example The Netherlands, Portugal, Hungary); most don't.
In Spain the authorities can charge against the owner if he is unwilling to disclose the drivers name at the time of the violation. The rental car company has done what they are legally supposed to do, so I guess they cannot be held responsible. But Iam not a lawyer.

Rental car companies are a unique case, but for individuals, yes the owner of the car is charged and assumes the burden of proving he wasn't responsible. This is because Europe uses radar cameras which cannot always prove who the driver was.

Should I point out here that the euro has only been in circulation for just short of 10 years?

Well, my memory is not perfect. I'm pretty sure it was around 1995-6, so I guess it was Italian Lira. I know it was about $100 dollars (equivalent) back then.

There is actually more to the story. During our deployment to Pisa, Italy we gave an "incentive flight" to the Italian Carbinieri (Federal Police) on one of our USAF missions. Several Carabinieri officers got to come along on our flight to see what we do.

During the flight, we told the story to one of the officers (we had a translator), and he laughed, and took the ticket, and said he would "dispose" of it.

One friend of mine was stopped by the police in Finland for driving too fast, 2 years ago.

He was on the way back to the airport for his flight back to ZRH.
The police told him that they should take his driving licence. But because he was flying back the same day, they don't took it. But he had to promise that his wife will drive the remaining way to Helsinki.
And he got a bill over 1000 E, and he hasn't paid... and since then he hasn't had any problems on arrival.
But maybe he just got luck?

Even if I were inclined to pay a fine, a "huge" amt like 1000E, would give me second thoughts.