Amtrak Guest Rewards - Adirondack Border Crossing

Hey there! I have a bunch of AGR point and was thinking of taking the train NYP to Montreal. Is there a proper border passport inspection like at an airport? What is the procedure?

Yes, absolutely. Amtrak will require you to provide (http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=Page&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1241267382701) your personal info and passport or document data upon booking. The Adirondack will stop at the border for inspection (CBSA northbound, USCBP southbound). Agents will walk the train and check everyone's documents. Beware that, if there are problems with anyone, the entire train may be held for minutes or even hours (http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,2522104). :td:

Cool! Thanks GoAmtrak ^

Any chance I would get a Canadian passport stamp? I like having my passport stamped, nerdy I know.

No problem! I have not had my passport stamped in either direction on any of Amtrak's transborder routes. But it never hurts to ask. :cool:

Have a good trip! This train's pace is leisurely on a good day. But the scenery is fantastic, especially as it hugs Lake Champlain.

Cool! Thanks GoAmtrak ^

Any chance I would get a Canadian passport stamp? I like having my passport stamped, nerdy I know.

I'm not sure the agents will be carrying stamps with them. However, I'm sure if you raise a ruckus when they ask for your passport, they will "invite" you to visit their office for further discussion. I'm sure they have a stamp there. :)

Yes, absolutely. Amtrak will require you to provide (http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=Page&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1241267382701) your personal info and passport or document data upon booking. The Adirondack will stop at the border for inspection (CBSA northbound, USCBP southbound). Agents will walk the train and check everyone's documents. Beware that, if there are problems with anyone, the entire train may be held for minutes or even hours (http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,2522104). :td:

Wow ya gotta hope the carriers are motivated to prevent that from happening. You mean they can't detrain the problem and let the rest go?

Wow ya gotta hope the carriers are motivated to prevent that from happening. You mean they can't detrain the problem and let the rest go?They do (it happened on our train when Mr. travelmad478 and I took this trip a couple of years ago) but it still takes a dog's age for the whole situation to get handled. We were at the border for more than an hour, as I recall. One passenger in our car got marched off the train.

They do (it happened on our train when Mr. travelmad478 and I took this trip a couple of years ago) but it still takes a dog's age for the whole situation to get handled. We were at the border for more than an hour, as I recall. One passenger in our car got marched off the train.

Maybe another sign the travel industry cares less and less about its customers. No sense of "we have a trainload of people who are bystanders, how can we hustle this?" Got that same sense from the various bus companies involved in my recent trip.

Maybe another sign the travel industry cares less and less about its customers. No sense of "we have a trainload of people who are bystanders, how can we hustle this?" Got that same sense from the various bus companies involved in my recent trip.
This didn't have anything to do with the "travel industry"--and everything to do with Canadian border patrol. If Amtrak had really been interested in "hustling" then they should have been coming through the cars with a snack cart during the delay!

Maybe another sign the travel industry cares less and less about its customers. No sense of "we have a trainload of people who are bystanders, how can we hustle this?" Got that same sense from the various bus companies involved in my recent trip.
How does this relate to the travel industry? It's the authorities (Canadian or USA as the case may be who aren't releasing the train).

This didn't have anything to do with the "travel industry"--and everything to do with Canadian border patrol. If Amtrak had really been interested in "hustling" then they should have been coming through the cars with a snack cart during the delay!

How does this relate to the travel industry? It's the authorities (Canadian or USA as the case may be who aren't releasing the train).

Correct!

Amtrak's only part in this is to collect the required passport/travel document info and forward it to customs and to ensure that everyone boarding the train actually has said documents on them.

After that, Amtrak has no more say. Once that train crosses the border, it remains in the control of the respective country's agents until such time as those agents decide to release the train with or without all the passengers. It is entirely their call how long they're going to delay the train while they check documents and decide if they're going to deport anyone who came over the border.

If where you live in one of the states that offers the Enhanced Drivers License/ID try to get. It cost a little more than the standard license or id, but it replaces the uses of a passport for all land/sea/rail entry into the US.

http://www.getyouhome.gov/html/lang_eng/eng_edl.html

You other option is to get a Passport Card

http://www.getyouhome.gov/html/lang_eng/eng_uspc.html

Like the Enhanced Drivers License, this is only valid for land/rail/sea entry into the US

I think in Washington State, train service does not cross the Canadian border. Amtrak buses do the crossing. Maybe that is somehow related to the risk involved in Canadian border patrol taking control of an entire train. A bit amazing that there would even be a train track that doesn't stop at an international border. I'm sure that is common in Europe (the Orient Express crosses many). But here in North America?

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I think in Washington State, train service does not cross the Canadian border. Amtrak buses do the crossing. Maybe that is somehow related to the risk involved in Canadian border patrol taking control of an entire train. A bit amazing that there would even be a train track that doesn't stop at an international border. I'm sure that is common in Europe (the Orient Express crosses many). But here in North America?

Amtrak also provides train service between Washington State and Vancouver on its Cascades route. There is a U.S. pre-clearance facility at the Vancouver train station for southbound rail passengers. (The train makes no stops in Canada.)

I think in Washington State, train service does not cross the Canadian border. Amtrak buses do the crossing. Maybe that is somehow related to the risk involved in Canadian border patrol taking control of an entire train. A bit amazing that there would even be a train track that doesn't stop at an international border. I'm sure that is common in Europe (the Orient Express crosses many). But here in North America?

Actually the Amtrak Cascades does go from Seattle to Vancouver and back, I believe two trains a day. It's a great ride and cheaper way to get across the border without having the high air fare/fees. There is no stop at the border and once at the station you are herded through a customs check point similar to the airports.

I think in Washington State, train service does not cross the Canadian border. Amtrak buses do the crossing. Maybe that is somehow related to the risk involved in Canadian border patrol taking control of an entire train. I think the world is flat. Turns out, we're both wrong! :p

Actually the Amtrak Cascades does go from Seattle to Vancouver and back, I believe two trains a day. It's a great ride and cheaper way to get across the border without having the high air fare/fees. There is no stop at the border and once at the station you are herded through a customs check point similar to the airports.

Sounds like a smarter policy than this Adirondack train. Wonder why a single travel service has variable approaches.

OK, so it wasn't my imagination. I just did a fake search for a one-way trip to Vancouver from Minneapolis-St. Paul. What I got was
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-c9qBArQXdBM/TjRqI0dY6SI/AAAAAAAAAJk/MN9xc-V9ECI/s288/trip.png

Seattle to Vancouver says "bus". If there's a train available, why is the only option given as "bus"?

I get the following looking for MSP - Van

$210.00 estimated
7 Empire Builder

Service Alert
2011-09-16T23:15:00.000-05:00 St. Paul / Minneapolis, MN
St. Paul / Minneapolis
(MSP)
Departs: 11:15 PM
Fri Sep 16 2011
St. Paul / Minneapolis, MN (MSP)
Station News
Arrives: 10:25 AM
Sun Sep 18 2011
Seattle, WA (SEA)
Station News
PT49H35M Duration: 37 hr, 10 min
Amenities
[Checked baggage] [Lounge] [Dining car] [Onboard wheelchair ramp]


516 Amtrak Cascades

Service Alert
Departs: 6:50 PM
Sun Sep 18 2011
Seattle, WA (SEA)
Station News
Arrives: 10:50 PM
Sun Sep 18 2011
Vancouver, BC (VAC) Vancouver, BC
Vancouver
(VAC)

For YVR - MSP I got a choice of three
First was pure train from Vancouver to MSP via Seattle
2nd was same trains via PDX
Third was bus

OK, so it wasn't my imagination. I just did a fake search for a one-way trip to Vancouver from Minneapolis-St. Paul. What I got was
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-c9qBArQXdBM/TjRqI0dY6SI/AAAAAAAAAJk/MN9xc-V9ECI/s288/trip.png

Seattle to Vancouver says "bus". If there's a train available, why is the only option given as "bus"?

Because ARROW is programmed to give you the first possible connection first. That just happens to be a bus. However, if you're willing to wait around for the train until later that evening, you can connect with the train to VAC.

Of course the right way to test things and see if there were indeed trains running over the border would have been to simply go from Seattle to Vancouver and not complicate things with a departure from MSP. The State of Washington would also like to increase the number of trains and reduce, if not eliminate, the bus runs.

Sounds like a smarter policy than this Adirondack train. Wonder why a single travel service has variable approaches.

I don't know about the other trains, but VAC is the one and only stop in Canada. So it may be they are not worried about people jumping off the train before it gets into Vancouver. I'm sure if there is an unscheduled stop once over the border, unless a safety issue, you would not be allowed off the train and expect authorities to be on the spot quickly. Plus, we are talking about Canada where there are many unmanned crossings anyways.

I don't know about the other trains, but VAC is the one and only stop in Canada. So it may be they are not worried about people jumping off the train before it gets into Vancouver. I'm sure if there is an unscheduled stop once over the border, unless a safety issue, you would not be allowed off the train and expect authorities to be on the spot quickly. Plus, we are talking about Canada where there are many unmanned crossings anyways.

You are correct, the Cascades service is the only Amtrak service that does not make any other stops once over the border. Mind you there would be a few logical stops that it could make if they changed the procedures. But that's unlikely to happen. In fact Canada wants to stop doing onboard inspections entirely.

There are currently plans underway to reroute the Adirondack via a different line in Canada that would both eliminate the one intermediary stop in Canada, but would also see the train moving from Gare Centrale station to Lucien L'Allier station. Lucien has enough room such that a fenced in area similar to what one finds in Vancouver can be created and customs would now be done after detraining. We're probably at least a year or two away from seeing that happen.

As for the Maple Leaf there is simply no way to do the same with that train, since it is actually taken over by VIA Rail at the Niagara Falls, ON station and operated as a local VIA train to Toronto. However, it is my understanding that current SOP upon entering Canada is that all passengers are taken off the train with their luggage and brought into the station to clear customs & immigration. Returning to the US usually does not see everyone being taken off the train, although on certain occasions it does happen. But most times the US officials come on board to do things.

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Sounds like a smarter policy than this Adirondack train. Wonder why a single travel service has variable approaches.

I don't know about the other trains, but VAC is the one and only stop in Canada. So it may be they are not worried about people jumping off the train before it gets into Vancouver. I'm sure if there is an unscheduled stop once over the border, unless a safety issue, you would not be allowed off the train and expect authorities to be on the spot quickly. Plus, we are talking about Canada where there are many unmanned crossings anyways.

The Adirondack has a scheduled stop between Montreal and Rouses Point, NY, at Saint Lambert; so an inspection point by either country at Montreal would not work on the route with its current stops.

I think there has been talk about putting the inspection point in Montreal (and possibly routing the Adirondack to a different station -- Lucien L'Allier), and eliminating the stop at Saint Lambert, but so far that has not happened.

As for the Maple Leaf there is simply no way to do the same with that train, since it is actually taken over by VIA Rail at the Niagara Falls, ON station and operated as a local VIA train to Toronto.

Just out of curiosity, how does this happen? Does a VIA engine pull up and connect to the Amtrak cars to pull the train the rest of the way to Toronto? Is it just a VIA crew that boards and operates the Amtrak equipment?

Just out of curiosity, how does this happen? Does a VIA engine pull up and connect to the Amtrak cars to pull the train the rest of the way to Toronto? Is it just a VIA crew that boards and operates the Amtrak equipment?

It's just VIA engineers and personel that take over the Amtrak train. The Amtrak employees all get off, even the cafe attendant who locks most of the cabinets & fridges. A VIA cafe attendant gets on with boxes of VIA supplies and sells from the cafe, using the convection ovens and one fridge. In fact it's the only time you can buy coke products on an Amtrak train.

Both the Amtrak crews and the VIA crews will accept tickets from either VIA or Amtrak for this run. In fact, if you're booking the entire run or any portion that crosses the border, you actually get two tickets. One for the Amtrak crew and one for the VIA crew.

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"In fact it's the only time you can buy coke products on an Amtrak train."

Doesn't the Downeaster sell Coke products? I thought that its food service was not catered by Amtrak.

I think it extremely peculiar that two searches at the Amtrak site result in different results. You did go to Amtrak, not some consolidator, right?

I think it extremely peculiar that two searches at the Amtrak site result in different results. You did go to Amtrak, not some consolidator, right?

It could be the train was sold out on the day you checked?

Anyhow, you can just go to the "timetable" page and look at the timetable for Amtrak Cascades:

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer/Page/1237405732505/1237405732505

I think it extremely peculiar that two searches at the Amtrak site result in different results. You did go to Amtrak, not some consolidator, right?Two different searches resulting in different results? How very peculiar! :p

When AlanB refers to ARROW, he is referring to Amtrak's reservation system.

I looked up both the Starlight and the Cascades. Most departures to Vancouver go by bus. There are a couple that involve the train. I didn't put any time constraint in, so they should have shown up. If I were to do the whole trip by train, I'd need to make separate reservations, one to get to Seattle, then one to get to Vancouver. Then I could do it. And the site informs you that you must supply security information just to make the reservation, including having the specific type of ID that Canada requires. That makes me somewhat puzzled that this Adirondack train had a problem. If the traveler was forced to provide the ID up front, why did a problem arise during the trip?

The Coast Starlight starts/stops in Seattle to/from Los Angeles, so no border crossings involved (contrary to the desires of some in California). The Cascades runs between Portland and Vancouver, with the only stop in Canada being Vancouver. As stated upthread, the Adirondack makes a stop in Canada before it's final destination, therefore an inspection needs to happen before then.

As to ID, you can state anything you like on the reservation, but if you don't have it with you when traveling it don't count. I don't know the details of the traveller, but border people are not known for their sense of humor or lienency.

Many search engines aren['t known for making logical connections so two searches done seconds apart can return totally different results. Not the end of the world...

If the traveler was forced to provide the ID up front, why did a problem arise during the trip?Providing an ID up front doesn't preclude problems during Customs/Immigration. To state an obvious example, maybe he/she was traveling with a suitcase full of weed. Who knows?

The Coast Starlight starts/stops in Seattle to/from Los Angeles, so no border crossings involved (contrary to the desires of some in California). The Cascades runs between Portland and Vancouver, with the only stop in Canada being Vancouver. As stated upthread, the Adirondack makes a stop in Canada before it's final destination, therefore an inspection needs to happen before then.

As to ID, you can state anything you like on the reservation, but if you don't have it with you when traveling it don't count. I don't know the details of the traveller, but border people are not known for their sense of humor or lienency.

Many search engines aren['t known for making logical connections so two searches done seconds apart can return totally different results. Not the end of the world...

The point is that the reservation process makes it clear of the need to have not just any ID but the one that will get you through. It is hard to figure how, then, a passenger could be on the train with improper ID. Unless they were just trying to get away with something. If that's the explanation, being bounced off is what they have coming. Sad that it should mess up the trips of all those who just want to travel, not prove how sly or cute they are.

The point is that the reservation process makes it clear of the need to have not just any ID but the one that will get you through. It is hard to figure how, then, a passenger could be on the train with improper ID. Unless they were just trying to get away with something. If that's the explanation, being bounced off is what they have coming. Sad that it should mess up the trips of all those who just want to travel, not prove how sly or cute they are.It sounds like you just provided another answer to your earlier "If they provided ID information ahead of time, how in the world could anything go wrong???" question.

In the meantime, we will continue to be amused by your gradual understanding (endearing, on some level) of what some might say is the blatantly obvious. :p

;)

It sounds like you just provided another answer to your earlier "If they provided ID information ahead of time, how in the world could anything go wrong???" question.

In the meantime, we will continue to be amused by your gradual understanding (endearing, on some level) of what some might say is the blatantly obvious. :p

;)

I continue not to be amused by your cheap attempt to milk a discussion for more preening. Who exactly are you thinking to impress here?