European Rail Travel - Paris to Venice - Overnight train or fly?

Has anyone here ever taken the overnight train from Paris to Venice? I am debating on whether I should do this, or fly via easyjet. I know the cost comparisons and tricks to using the tvg-europe site, so basically it comes down to comfort at this point, not cost. If we book the double sleeper (it's just my husband and I going) - will we sleep comfortably? Does the train 'rock and roll' all night and keep you awake? They say they are air conditioned, is this true? I think the IDEA Of a night train makes more sense if you wake up rested for Venice early the next day... however, I am leery of it not being as good of an experience as it sounds, staying up all night, not sleeping and being walking zombies the next day. Any experiences from you guys?

I can only speak for sleeper trains in general, but it's really a personal thing. Some (like me) find the gentle rocking of a railway carriage very conducive to sleep. Others say that the only way to sleep on a train is to have spent the previous night on a train...

I think it depends on how well you sleep in general. If you think noise, movement and limited space will keep you awake, you're probably right. If you're someone who relaxes on trains and dozes off easily, it can be a great experience.

I can only speak for sleeper trains in general, but it's really a personal thing. Some (like me) find the gentle rocking of a railway carriage very conducive to sleep. Others say that the only way to sleep on a train is to have spent the previous night on a train.

I'm firmly in the second camp here, having slept well on the second night of the only two times I have spent consecutive nights on a train.

Still, I like the experience of night travel (occasionally). A couple of extra things to remember:
1. You probably won't be able to check-in to your hotel until some time after your early morning arrival. (Although presumably they will let you store bags).
2. These (Paris - Venice) trains don't have showers (private or shared). It makes a big difference IME if you can have a shower on the train before arrival in the morning, especially if you haven't slept well.

I sleep well in travel situations (cars, boats, planes) so I think I'll be okay sleeping as long as it's not like a roller coaster ride of rockyness. I guess thats my main question, if it's more of a gentle rocking, or a bumpy ride? Gentle rocking and I'll be set! :)

I am also curious as to the air conditioning in case it's hot/stuffy during Sept still?

Good call on not being able to check in to the hotel when we arrive.. I will look into left luggage storage in the train station.

I am fine without a shower (as long as it's not super hot and I don't get sweaty over night) as long as I have a sink and toilet. We'll be sure to shower in the hotel in Paris before we leave that day instead of earlier in the morning.

I am also curious as to the air conditioning in case it's hot/stuffy during Sept still?

Yes, these trains are fully air-conditioned and you will have an individual temperature control for your compartment.

I've travelled on sleepers several times and find the motion of the train is mostly quite gentle. I think it would be, for example, much gentler than an auto.

Many years ago, I was travelling in Italy in the middle of August. I did not know it then, but it is when the Italian military reserves are called up every year. Many soldiers came unto our train and told us we had to leave our seats (even, of course, with tickets) so they could sit. I stood in the passageway near an older woman. After it got dark, she laid her travel bag on the floor and laid down using the bag as a pillow. Since it was a night train and there were no seats, I tried it as well. It turned out to be one of the best sleeps I ever had on a train!

I've travelled on sleepers several times and find the motion of the train is mostly quite gentle. I think it would be, for example, much gentler than an auto.
!

For me it is not the rocking and rolling that wakes me up at night, but the sudden stops in stations and the resulting lack of any motion (plus possible light intrusion into your cabin from the station). If you have never taken a sleeper… why not give it a try… you may indeed regret it, but it will be a new experience that you can then choose to not repeat.

Thanks everyone. We have decided to give it a shot. We'll pick up a bottle of wine in Paris before boarding, and worst case scenario if I can't sleep on my own, I can drink some more wine which should help for a good nights sleep! :)

For me it is not the rocking and rolling that wakes me up at night, but the sudden stops in stations and the resulting lack of any motion (plus possible light intrusion into your cabin from the station). If you have never taken a sleeper… why not give it a try… you may indeed regret it, but it will be a new experience that you can then choose to not repeat.

I think you must be a very sensitive sleeper. If you look at train schedules, you will see that the night trains usually take several hours longer than the day trains going between the same cities. The reason for this is that the night trains go much slower. So, the station stops are not sudden, but very slowly done.

But, I completely agree that this is a personal thing.

I think you must be a very sensitive sleeper. If you look at train schedules, you will see that the night trains usually take several hours longer than the day trains going between the same cities. The reason for this is that the night trains go much slower. So, the station stops are not sudden, but very slowly done.

You reckon? My experience has always been that the drivers still do "positive" braking with a sharp jerk at the end.

I love night trains - a brilliant experience - but don't tend to sleep well on them.

To be fair I don't mind night flights either - but I don't sleep on those well either. In both cases I need a day off afterwards to recover, regardless of what class I'm in.

Neil

I think you must be a very sensitive sleeper. If you look at train schedules, you will see that the night trains usually take several hours longer than the day trains going between the same cities. The reason for this is that the night trains go much slower. So, the station stops are not sudden, but very slowly done.

This has nothing to do with the pace of stopping and accelerating, which is standardized, but with reduced speeds and tortuous, bizarre routes night trains take + interference with freight traffic.

Night trains should be scrapped because they mess up freight traffic.

As I said in my last post, this is a personal thing. I have used many sleepers over many years and the only time I had a problem sleeping was on an Italian train in the summer with a broken cooling system (we had to keep the window open all night) over 20 years ago.

I don't quite understand why Europegrad is so against sleepers. From Paris to Venice there are four sleepers per night. With two trains leaving per hour from 17:00 and two from 20:00, I don't understand how this can have much influence on goods trains, particularly if they travel on different routes.

I know the cost comparisons and tricks to using the tvg-europe site
What are the "tricks" to using the TGV-Europe site?

From Paris to Venice there are four sleepers per night. With two trains leaving per hour from 17:00 and two from 20:00, I don't understand how this can have much influence on goods trains, particularly if they travel on different routes.

Wow - could you explain, please?

In the universe I live in, there is one daily sleeper train from Paris to Venice, leaving Paris at 20:33, and arriving at Venice at 09:34 the following morning. ;)

What are the "tricks" to using the TGV-Europe site?

Good descriptions in www.seat61.com - essentially you sign on tgv-europe not from the US, but rather from some European country. Armenia or one of the other A's close to the top of the list that allow English as one of the language choices. If you sign on as US, you are promptly taken to www.raileurope.com and their rates can be higher.

Romelle

REALLY? That just doesn't seem right. But if you sign on as if in Armenia, how does one purchase tickets and have them sent to you in the US?

Wow - could you explain, please?

In the universe I live in, there is one daily sleeper train from Paris to Venice, leaving Paris at 20:33, and arriving at Venice at 09:34 the following morning. ;)

As I had already written, I found Europegrad's comment about sleepers interfering with goods trains quite strange, so I used a worst-case scenario. There are four trains per day that leave Paris in the evening and arrive in Vienna the next morning. They all have sleepers, but not for the entire trip or necessarily even when they leave Paris. Nevertheless, at some point in between Paris and Vienna, there are sleepers connected to all four trains.

Much of Europe has welded rail - no "clickety-clack" and jouncing around, unlike much rail in the USA, which is primarily freight bed with track sections bolted together and uneven, lower speed rail - not much different in the last fifty+ years. (On high speed rail, you can be travelling 186 MPH and you won't see a ripple in your glass - improved rail beds and welded rail.)

We sometimes choose rail overnight because it kills two birds with one stone - overnight hotel and transport. And, it's fun exploring various rail modes. We've run everything from regional sleepers to the old N de M GDL-MEX (like riding a poorly cared for 1940's train), Sunlander, Kenya's "Lunatic Express" (a true blast from the past, which may hopefully be restored,) Rajasthan's Palace on Wheels, Eastern & Oriental Express, California's Lark, etc. For the experiences with illustrations, as Romelle suggested, I'd suspect the Man in Seat 61 (www.seat61.com/) can provide some help.

In the end, it's a very individual choice - some folks hate even the idea of using rail, others enjoy the opportunity to vary travel, enjoying scenery, sleeping and arriving, etc.

I sleep well in travel situations (cars, boats, planes) so I think I'll be okay sleeping as long as it's not like a roller coaster ride of rockyness. I guess thats my main question, if it's more of a gentle rocking, or a bumpy ride? Gentle rocking and I'll be set! :)

I am also curious as to the air conditioning in case it's hot/stuffy during Sept still?

Good call on not being able to check in to the hotel when we arrive.. I will look into left luggage storage in the train station.

I am fine without a shower (as long as it's not super hot and I don't get sweaty over night) as long as I have a sink and toilet. We'll be sure to shower in the hotel in Paris before we leave that day instead of earlier in the morning.

Much of Europe has welded rail - no "clickety-clack" and jouncing around, unlike much rail in the USA, which is primarily freight bed with track sections bolted together and uneven, lower speed rail - not much different in the last fifty+ years.

I have ridden most of the Amtrak sleeper routes and the vast majority of it is welded rail.

That's true, I'd forgotten from riding too much local rail - but much of our railbed is outdated, jouncy and engineered and ballasted for freight. And I've not ridden Acela - but IMO Japan and Europe have rail systems that are at least one generation ahead of anything the USA.

I have ridden most of the Amtrak sleeper routes and the vast majority of it is welded rail.

REALLY? That just doesn't seem right. But if you sign on as if in Armenia, how does one purchase tickets and have them sent to you in the US?

You opt for printing out on your home printer. Or if that option isn't available, you opt for a station pick-up. I've done both.

The station pick-up is a little tricky, because they can expect you to use a machine and then the US cards can get rejected because they don't have chips. I've had the tickets produced from the machines, and I've had to go to a window and explain my plight. I always got on the train eventually.

If you do do the tickets via TGV, it is a good idea to go to the station early (even a day early) to work through the process. Those windows don't always have English-speaking people, but by being polite I've always managed to get routed to somebody who could help me.

There are some pretty good sales on TGV. The savings can be worth the aggravation of the process. I also think one sees more trains schedules than via raileurope, but I've never had an opportunity to verify this opinion.

For that matter, I've moved around Italy quite a bit by just buying tickets there at the station a few days before I was hoping to travel.

Romelle

Good descriptions in www.seat61.com - essentially you sign on tgv-europe not from the US, but rather from some European country. Armenia or one of the other A's close to the top of the list that allow English as one of the language choices. If you sign on as US, you are promptly taken to www.raileurope.com and their rates can be higher.

Romelle

I'm starting to look at rail travel too and stumbled upon this thread. That's really good to know - thanks for the tip!

TGV has a new feature too, a price calendar. Should save one of those one-day-at-a-time searches we've all used to smoke out that last bargain.

http://calendar.tgv-europe.com/en/

Romelle

As I had already written, I found Europegrad's comment about sleepers interfering with goods trains quite strange, so I used a worst-case scenario. There are four trains per day that leave Paris in the evening and arrive in Vienna the next morning. They all have sleepers, but not for the entire trip or necessarily even when they leave Paris. Nevertheless, at some point in between Paris and Vienna, there are sleepers connected to all four trains.

I see - I misunderstood the hypothetical nature of your post.

I do agree with you, though, about the usefulness of night trains.

In any case, I don't get europegrad's point. There's plenty of capacity at night for both sleepers (of which there are only a handful anyway) and freight trains.

Night trains should be scrapped because they mess up freight traffic.

Your posting, as always, suggests a complete lack of understanding of how European rail networks operate, and a fairly significant bias towards what happens in the US, where railways mainly exist for freight purposes and there are few relevant diversionary routes.

I assume, despite your name, you are US based, or if you are not, perhaps you are an American who has perhaps studied in Europe?

The small (and ever decreasing, for no other reason than that they are not profitable[1]) number of night trains in operation in Europe has little or no effect on freight, which also moves during the day when passenger train operations are at their highest. It would be valid to argue that night trains should be scrapped because fewer people want to use them given high-speed rail and low-cost flights, but your statement above is completely without foundation.

[1] The UK subsidises them directly but in a good many other cases in Europe they are not subsidised as such.

Neil