Oceania (Australia, New Zealand & the South Pacific) - Australia itinerary: MEL, ADL, KI, Port Douglas, SYD

Yes, it's another Australia itinerary thread! I've been rummaging through a bunch of them to garner some knowledge, and they were really helpful. Now I'd like to get some input from you wise FTers about my potential plans.

Background: I'm planning a trip to Australia for a conference in December. (Returning to the UK right before Christmas.) Initially was thinking I'd attempt to hit NZ and Oz, but a bit of research disabused me of that notion, since I'll only have about 17 days for tourism. Got business class seats on KE LHR-ICN-MEL on the way out and MH SYD-KUL-LHR on the return using my DL miles, so hopefully the jet lag problem won't be too severe.

After a good amount of consideration, I've come up with the following rough outline:

Day 1: Melbourne (arrive 0710)
Day 2: Melbourne
Days 3-7: Conference (Includes an afternoon excursion to Yarra Valley winery and Dandenong Ranges National Park on day 5.)
Days 8-9: Great Ocean Road area
Day 10: MEL-ADL (morning), Adelaide
Days 11-13: Kangaroo Island
Days 14-15: Indian Pacific (Gold service) from Adelaide to Sydney, spend a bit of time in Sydney, then SYD-CNS and drive to Port Douglas. (Don't want to book flight too close to train arrival in case the train is delayed for some reason, hence a bit of time to kill in Sydney.)
Days 16-19: Port Douglas area (Great Barrier Reef, Daintree)
Day 20: Drive to Cairns, fly CNS-SYD.
Days 21-22: Sydney
Day 23: Sydney morning, fly out at 15:40

I'm approaching this with an "I'll be back" attitude and aiming to spend time taking in scenery and wildlife, with a bit of city time included. (I'm sure I could spend way more time in Sydney, for instance, but if I'm coming back, routing via SYD is almost surely going to be part of the plan.) I thought about including Uluru, but the heat of December combined with costs and train schedules (I'd want to do the Ghan either ADL-ASP or ASP-ADL) made it a bit impractical. Even if it did fit in, I think it would contribute too much to the "If this is Tuesday, it must be Belgium" syndrome I want to avoid.

Any general thoughts would be greatly appreciated, but here are some specific questions:

(1) Great Ocean Road area: Recommendations for the area, other than the drive? It sounds like a lovely area, so I'm thinking I'd like to stop to do a few miles of walking somewhere along the route. (Preferably a circular route or a route with a suggestion of how to get back to the car after completing it.) Should I try to get out of Melbourne the night of Day 7 (conference ends around 1600) or just leave on the morning of Day 8? Since MEL-ADL is frequent, I figured it'd be easier to take one of the first flights on Day 10 so that I don't have to rush back on Day 9 to catch a flight. (Planning on the DJ Airpass, since I can get the three flights I want for under $400 with a bag included and some flexibility in case I want/need to reshuffle plans between now and December. Seems like a better option than hunting for a JQ sale for the next few months, as I can not worry about the air travel aspect.)

(2) Kangaroo Island: Does it make sense to spend the night in Adelaide before heading over to the island (say I get to ADL around 0900) or would it be more productive to make the crossing on the night of day 10 so that I cut out transit time on the morning of day 11? Is there a consensus on if flying or taking the ferry over is better? Will I want a rental car on the island, and if so, can I rent it on the island or will I have to rent in Adelaide and take it over on the ferry? Thoughts on exploring on my own vs. a tour?

(3) Port Douglas: I guess first, the topic must be weather. I understand that I'm headed to the tropics in late spring/early summer. However, given that I'm coming from England and heading to the northern US shortly after returning from the Southern Hemisphere, I think I could do with some heat and humidity. Just wanted thoughts on if I'm sorely mistaken in this regard and should consider somewhere else. I've read up on stinger season, and it seems like it will be stinger season but that's not a reason to avoid the area, just to take appropriate precautions. My thoughts on what to do are some snorkeling on the Great Barrier Reef, walking in the Daintree, and a bit of beach time (not too much of that, as my skin has two modes---pasty white and bright red). Will I be really upset with myself if I don't try diving? Seems like a major commitment of time/money for a first trip to the area, so given that I'm not spending a full week there, I'm inclined to give it a pass this time.

(4) Sydney: There are a couple of reasonable DJ flight times for CNS-SYD, so there are a few options for the day I'm making the flight. I could spend the morning/early afternoon in Port Douglas and drive to CNS just in time for the flight; I could drive to Cairns in the morning, explore Cairns a bit, and then fly to SYD; or I could drive to CNS in the morning and take an earlier flight to give a bit more time in SYD. Thoughts?

I'm not terribly worried about figuring out ahead of time what to do in Melbourne, Adelaide, or Sydney, as I tend to wing it when it comes to visiting cities. (I'll probably plan ahead a bit more than that.) Anything interesting that's not on the list of obvious things to do or things that are on the "must do" lists that are overrated? (I've already read enough to know that instead of paying through the nose for a harbour cruise in Sydney, I should just take a couple boats that a transit pass covers.)

Accommodation: Open to suggestions here, particularly for Kangaroo Island, since I'm not sure where the best area to stay would be. My inclination there would be a B&B rather than something on the high end. Leaning toward using some points in cities or Port Douglas. I've got just shy of 14,000 HHonors points, which don't go very far, but I have over 50,000 MR points that can be transferred (PC=1:1, HH=1:1.5, SPG=1:0.333) and will soon have 50,000+ Chase Sapphire points available for transfer (PC=1:1, Marriott=1:1, Hyatt=1:1) as well. I'll probably be back with more specific lodging questions once I'm confident I'm not going to mess with the itinerary too much.

Thanks in advance for any input, thoughts, opinions, etc. you have to share!

Just one detail: why would you do the Great Ocean Road and then return to Melbourne to fly to Adelaide? It would make more sense to just drive to Adelaide.

Audrey

A bit of extra detail on the last reply. It may look a long way to drive but MEL-GOR-KI -ADL is quite mangeable in the time you have available. Of course we landed on these shores in 1974 (and have stayed) and wouldn't hesitate to drive that distance. Just don't underestimate the size of Kangaroo Island and note that a lot of the roads are unmade (i.e. dirt).

I'm a North Dakotan by birth and upbringing, so the driving distance is not a big deal to me, really. I drove 300+ miles back and forth from uni to home (although I didn't do it as often as my parents would have liked). (And dirt/gravel roads are what I learned to drive on.) Is the drive from the end of the GOR to ADL worth taking? I guess my thought process was that it's 7+ hours from Warnambool to Adelaide, and I really don't want to spend a whole day driving. It does seem like it could be chunked up reasonably with time to get out and walk for a couple hours each day if I lose some of my time slated for Adelaide. Gas/petrol plus the extra day of rental plus the one-way rental fee are likely going to come out more than flying MEL-ADL, but if it's a good experience along the way, I'm game. Suggestions for the best (tourist) driving route from Melbourne to Adelaide? Best places to spend the night along the way? Anyone want to dissent and suggest that I take the flight instead?

I guess grusselt's comment about KI suggests that having a car there is probably the best plan.

A few comments (a lot of which I've copied from another similar thread I posted it in recently):

Great Ocean Road
The drive MEL-ADL via the Great Ocean Road is definitely worth taking, especially if you like food and wine in addition to walking, driving and awesome scenery.

Aside from the usual touristy (but beautiful) things which I'm sure you're familiar with (twelve apostles, london bridge, loch ard gorge, etc.) and given you mentioned you would like to do some walking, I suggest you check out the Great Ocean Walk (greatoceanwalk.com.au). GOW which stretches 104 km from Apollo Bay to the 12 Apostles, roughly following the Great Ocean Road, via the Otways, sections of board walk and beach walking. I did a small part of it (Blanket Bay to Cape Otway lighthouse) in January a couple of years ago and it was great - I'd love to do more of it. There are numerous spots you can start and finish. There's also a shuttle service if you want to walk one way and be driven back, not to mention numerous accommodation options, both on and off the walk.

If you like food, one option to stay is Port Fairy, a small old fishing village about 5-6 hours drive from MEL on the Great Ocean Rd. Port Fairy has quite a few good restaurants. There is currently a special on accommodation in Port Fairy via spreets.com.au until midnight tonight - $199 for two nights (which is probably too long for you, but an option) at The Victoria Apartments, including a $50 meal credit. Centrally located.

If you like wine, you can drive through a number of wine regions on the way from Melbourne to Adelaide (primarily in South Australia). Let me know if you'd like more details.

If you wanted to, you could definitely leave after your conference finishes at 4pm - it's about 2-3 hours drive to the likes of nice seaside towns like Lorne and Apollo Bay on the Great Ocean Road, or smaller towns like Aireys Inlet. It should still be light when you arrive. Plenty of accommodation options in Lorne and Apollo Bay. Just be aware that if you are leaving on Friday night in December, traffic is likely to be heavy, given school holidays and summer.

Kangaroo Island
I spent three nights there a couple of years ago, with two mates. We flew to Adelaide, picked up a hire car and took the ferry over. Having done that, I can see positives and negatives of both independent and a tour. The island is deceptively large, with attractions spread from one end to the other, so we ended up doing a lot more travelling than we thought we would (we stayed on the northern coast in the centre of the island), but we did have the freedom to do the things we wanted to at the time we wanted. A tour would reduce the flexibility, but remove some of the hassle and increase the social aspect. If you do decide to go it alone, be aware that most of the roads on the island are gravel (the only sealed road is the road running the length of the island east to west) and most hire car companies do not allow to take their mainland cars on the ferry or drive them on gravel roads (two that do are Thrifty and Europcar. Hertz, Avis and Budget do not). There are a couple of hire car companies on the island (Hertz is one). The ferry over is not cheap - approx. AU$92 each way + about the same for a car. There are some fares that are about half that, but limited. See sealink.com.au. Be aware that the drive from ADL to the ferry at Cape Jervis is about a 1.75-2 hour drive. Flying is also not cheap. There are numerous accommodation options on the island - the best pace to stay depends on your budget, what you'd like to do and how much driving on dirt roads you're prepared to.

wotif.com is a great accommodation reference - note it's not always the cheapest or most comprehensive, but one of the best.

Port Douglas

I'll be spending 4 nights there as a winter break in a couple of weeks, so I'll try and report back after then.

Blue Mountains
Since you've mentioned you like walking, a trip to the Blue Mountains from Sydney is worth it. Can be done done as a day trip, but would be worthwhile staying at least one night, as a day trip would be rushed (it's about 1 hr 45 min. drive from Sydney each way). Katoomba is the central town in the Blue Mountains, with many places to stay. You can also catch the train there from Sydney, which takes about two hours and is very cheap. The only problem with that is it's not that easy to get around without a car. There are other nice towns in the Blue Mountains, but they are smaller and more remote. I recommend the National Pass (national pass.com.au) - a great walk!

In general, you've picked some great things to do/see, some of which I haven't done but would love to (train).

A few comments (a lot of which I've copied from another similar thread I posted it in recently):

Great Ocean Road
The drive MEL-ADL via the Great Ocean Road is definitely worth taking, especially if you like food and wine in addition to walking, driving and awesome scenery.

Aside from the usual touristy (but beautiful) things which I'm sure you're familiar with (twelve apostles, london bridge, loch ard gorge, etc.) and given you mentioned you would like to do some walking, I suggest you check out the Great Ocean Walk (greatoceanwalk.com.au). GOW which stretches 104 km from Apollo Bay to the 12 Apostles, roughly following the Great Ocean Road, via the Otways, sections of board walk and beach walking. I did a small part of it (Blanket Bay to Cape Otway lighthouse) in January a couple of years ago and it was great - I'd love to do more of it. There are numerous spots you can start and finish. There's also a shuttle service if you want to walk one way and be driven back, not to mention numerous accommodation options, both on and off the walk.

Ooh, shuttle service. I'd come across the GOR website, but hadn't spent enough time to figure out that was an option. Sounds like a good plan. Thanks for the pointer.


Kangaroo Island
If you do decide to go it alone, be aware that most of the roads on the island are gravel (the only sealed road is the road running the length of the island east to west) and most hire car companies do not allow to take their mainland cars on the ferry or drive them on gravel roads (two that do are Thrifty and Europcar. Hertz, Avis and Budget do not). There are a couple of hire car companies on the island (Hertz is one). The ferry over is not cheap - approx. AU$92 each way + about the same for a car. There are some fares that are about half that, but limited. See sealink.com.au. Be aware that the drive from ADL to the ferry at Cape Jervis is about a 1.75-2 hour drive. Flying is also not cheap.

Hmmm. Hertz's fine print does allow mainland cars to go on the ferry to KI, but it won't allow KI cars to leave. (Doesn't look like they accept one-way rentals onto the island either, which is not surprising.) It seems odd that they even rent cars on KI if they won't allow them to be driven on unsealed roads (other than 4WD, apparently). I couldn't see any exceptions in their terms that allowed KI cars to be driven on unsealed roads there, either. They do say you can drive on unsealed roads if they are short access roads to tourist attractions, into national parks, or to accommodation. The one-way rental surcharges on everyone but Hertz are pretty steep, too. (Hertz is offering me a one-week rental without one-way surcharge for Melbourne to Adelaide, using off-airport locations at both ends.) Hertz does say that driving on unsealed roads is a full-responsibility activity, which I take to mean it's not forbidden but their insurance won't cover you if you do it. Probably not a wise course of action unless I confirm that my credit card coverage would pick things up. (Doubtful, since it's something the rental agency doesn't want you doing.)

I guess lots of things to consider (and sums to do to figure out if it might be better to do two rentals, one mainland and one island, rather than pay the ferry cost both ways). Thanks for your input!

Ugh. I was using Seat61 for info on the Australian sleeper trains, and apparently this summer GSR has decided to run the Indian Pacific on different days of the week than they have in the past. Thus, the itinerary I had come up with was invalid! One option that comes to mind (although I'm not in love with it), is cutting out the Indian Pacific from what's in the first post above and flying ADL-CNS, probably tacking on an extra day in SYD (enabling more time for the Blue Mountains).

If I want to keep a sleeper train trip, this looks like the best option:

Day 1: Melbourne (arrive 0710)
Day 2: Melbourne
Days 3-7: Conference (Includes an afternoon excursion to Yarra Valley winery and Dandenong Ranges National Park on day 5.) Fly MEL-ADL late on Day 7.
Days 8-10: Kangaroo Island
Day 11-12: Indian Pacific (Gold service) from Adelaide to Sydney, arrives 1015 on Day 12.
Days 12-14: Sydney. Fly SYD-CNS late in the day.
Days 15-18: Port Douglas area (Great Barrier Reef, Daintree)
Days 19: Fly CNS-MEL in the middle of the day
Day 20-22: Great Ocean Road to Adelaide
Day 23: Leave Australia, either by flying ADL-SYD in the morning or by changing the return on the award ticket to just leave from ADL.

This proposal actually gets basically the same amount of time everywhere—three days KI, four full days PD (so maybe a bit less if I spent half a day there before flying on my original plan), basically three days SYD, and three days GOR. The downside is the backtracking to MEL and ADL. Anyone have thoughts on if I'm going to regret the backtracking in the end? I think I'd regret eliminating the train journey more than dealing that bit of backtracking.

If anyone's having trouble sleeping and wants to play travel agent to propose another option, Indian Pacific journeys SYD-ADL are available days 12-13 and days 19-20. ADL-SYD is available on days 11-12 and days 18-19. I need to depart on a DL partner that's not blacked out, meaning my departure options are BNE, MEL, SYD, and ADL. (I'm open to changing the award ticket, since I can get my AmEx Platinum to eat the $150 change fee, assuming I can find the award inventory needed.)

Ooh, shuttle service. I'd come across the GOR website, but hadn't spent enough time to figure out that was an option. Sounds like a good plan. Thanks for the pointer.

In addition to the private shuttle services, there is also a public bus service along the GOR operated by v-line, which may be useful. See vline.com.au

Hmmm. Hertz's fine print does allow mainland cars to go on the ferry to KI, but it won't allow KI cars to leave. (Doesn't look like they accept one-way rentals onto the island either, which is not surprising.) It seems odd that they even rent cars on KI if they won't allow them to be driven on unsealed roads (other than 4WD, apparently). I couldn't see any exceptions in their terms that allowed KI cars to be driven on unsealed roads there, either. They do say you can drive on unsealed roads if they are short access roads to tourist attractions, into national parks, or to accommodation. The one-way rental surcharges on everyone but Hertz are pretty steep, too. (Hertz is offering me a one-week rental without one-way surcharge for Melbourne to Adelaide, using off-airport locations at both ends.) Hertz does say that driving on unsealed roads is a full-responsibility activity, which I take to mean it's not forbidden but their insurance won't cover you if you do it. Probably not a wise course of action unless I confirm that my credit card coverage would pick things up. (Doubtful, since it's something the rental agency doesn't want you doing.)

I guess lots of things to consider (and sums to do to figure out if it might be better to do two rentals, one mainland and one island, rather than pay the ferry cost both ways). Thanks for your input!

Your understanding of Full responsibility is correct.

Hertz changed their terms and conditions not long ago and removed reference to being covered on unsealed roads if they are short access roads to tourist attractions, into national parks, or to accommodation.

From clause 5:

(c) Full Responsibility Uses
You will be fully responsible and liable for Damages under clause 6 where the Vehicle is used:
(i) on any road or other surface which is not sealed other than a road under repair, or a road notified to You by Hertz, unless the Vehicle is a Four Wheel Drive (4WD) Vehicle;

I note that the FAQ's still says you are covered on unsealed roads in the above circumstances. It's great that their website is consistent!

A few other things to note about car hire:

- In addition to the standard Accident Damage Excess of AU$3,300 (10-25% higher if rented from an airport), Hertz and Thrifty also charge and additional Single Vehicle Accident (SVA) Excess of AU$2,200 (again, higher if rented from airport) if no other car is involved, e.g. if you hit a kangaroo. It's AU$30-50 per day to reduce the excess and remove the additional SVA excess.
- Hertz on KI is very expensive - over AU$100 per day for the cheapest car, with 100km per day included. If you remove the excess it will be close to AU$200 per day.
- Hertz provide no cover for driving at night on KI.

Thrifty and Europcar also prohibit you driving on unsealed roads, but in certain circumstances allow you to take their cars to KI (must be a corporate location for Thrifty - I did it from Adelaide Airport a couple of years ago) and there is nothing in their terms that says they will waive the normal unsealed road rules while on KI. To be honest, I assumed that Thrifty allowing me to take the car onto KI overrode their normal unsealed rules, but this thread has me thinking maybe I assumed incorrectly, although I do recall questioning them about it. Anyway, it would be in your best interest to contact the location you intend to hire from and clarify it as much as possible.

Ugh. I was using Seat61 for info on the Australian sleeper trains, and apparently this summer GSR has decided to run the Indian Pacific on different days of the week than they have in the past. Thus, the itinerary I had come up with was invalid! One option that comes to mind (although I'm not in love with it), is cutting out the Indian Pacific from what's in the first post above and flying ADL-CNS, probably tacking on an extra day in SYD (enabling more time for the Blue Mountains).

If I want to keep a sleeper train trip, this looks like the best option:

Day 1: Melbourne (arrive 0710)
Day 2: Melbourne
Days 3-7: Conference (Includes an afternoon excursion to Yarra Valley winery and Dandenong Ranges National Park on day 5.) Fly MEL-ADL late on Day 7.
Days 8-10: Kangaroo Island
Day 11-12: Indian Pacific (Gold service) from Adelaide to Sydney, arrives 1015 on Day 12.
Days 12-14: Sydney. Fly SYD-CNS late in the day.
Days 15-18: Port Douglas area (Great Barrier Reef, Daintree)
Days 19: Fly CNS-MEL in the middle of the day
Day 20-22: Great Ocean Road to Adelaide
Day 23: Leave Australia, either by flying ADL-SYD in the morning or by changing the return on the award ticket to just leave from ADL.

This proposal actually gets basically the same amount of time everywhere—three days KI, four full days PD (so maybe a bit less if I spent half a day there before flying on my original plan), basically three days SYD, and three days GOR. The downside is the backtracking to MEL and ADL. Anyone have thoughts on if I'm going to regret the backtracking in the end? I think I'd regret eliminating the train journey more than dealing that bit of backtracking.

If anyone's having trouble sleeping and wants to play travel agent to propose another option, Indian Pacific journeys SYD-ADL are available days 12-13 and days 19-20. ADL-SYD is available on days 11-12 and days 18-19. I need to depart on a DL partner that's not blacked out, meaning my departure options are BNE, MEL, SYD, and ADL. (I'm open to changing the award ticket, since I can get my AmEx Platinum to eat the $150 change fee, assuming I can find the award inventory needed.)

The first thing I thought when reading your revised itinerary was that seems like a lot of unnecessary backtracking!

Have you considered other train trips? For example, the Sunlander between Brisbane and Cairns? See railaustralia.com.au

If I want to keep a sleeper train trip, this looks like the best option:

Day 1: Melbourne (arrive 0710)
Day 2: Melbourne
Days 3-7: Conference (Includes an afternoon excursion to Yarra Valley winery and Dandenong Ranges National Park on day 5.) Fly MEL-ADL late on Day 7.
Days 8-10: Kangaroo Island
Day 11-12: Indian Pacific (Gold service) from Adelaide to Sydney, arrives 1015 on Day 12.
Days 12-14: Sydney. Fly SYD-CNS late in the day.
Days 15-18: Port Douglas area (Great Barrier Reef, Daintree)
Days 19: Fly CNS-MEL in the middle of the day
Day 20-22: Great Ocean Road to Adelaide
Day 23: Leave Australia, either by flying ADL-SYD in the morning or by changing the return on the award ticket to just leave from ADL.



Why are you going to KI via ADL, then flying back in a loop and ending up back in MEL and driving back to ADL? It doesn't seem like the best use of time.

Hertz changed their terms and conditions not long ago and removed reference to being covered on unsealed roads if they are short access roads to tourist attractions, into national parks, or to accommodation.

From clause 5:



I note that the FAQ's still says you are covered on unsealed roads in the above circumstances. It's great that their website is consistent!


Ugh. The rental restrictions you can view when doing a booking online show the old language about national parks, etc. still, which is what I was looking at. I guess I should try calling one of the KI locations to see what their actual policies are.

A few other things to note about car hire:

- In addition to the standard Accident Damage Excess of AU$3,300 (10-25% higher if rented from an airport), Hertz and Thrifty also charge and additional Single Vehicle Accident (SVA) Excess of AU$2,200 (again, higher if rented from airport) if no other car is involved, e.g. if you hit a kangaroo. It's AU$30-50 per day to reduce the excess and remove the additional SVA excess.
- Hertz on KI is very expensive - over AU$100 per day for the cheapest car, with 100km per day included. If you remove the excess it will be close to AU$200 per day.
- Hertz provide no cover for driving at night on KI.

I'm seeing a lot better rates than that from KGC Hertz (at least with my AmEx Platinum CDP), but still the stupid 100km/day. As best as I can tell, my Visa card's CDW coverage will eat up the excess in Australia to avoid the extra daily charges there, but I will need to confirm that with the Visa once I have a better grasp on things and especially inquire about the SVA situation. (Strangely, AmEx excludes Australia but Visa doesn't.)

Thrifty and Europcar also prohibit you driving on unsealed roads, but in certain circumstances allow you to take their cars to KI (must be a corporate location for Thrifty - I did it from Adelaide Airport a couple of years ago) and there is nothing in their terms that says they will waive the normal unsealed road rules while on KI. To be honest, I assumed that Thrifty allowing me to take the car onto KI overrode their normal unsealed rules, but this thread has me thinking maybe I assumed incorrectly, although I do recall questioning them about it. Anyway, it would be in your best interest to contact the location you intend to hire from and clarify it as much as possible.

All very confusing. Googling the matter doesn't make things any better, as it seems there are mixed views about whether driving on unsealed roads is necessary on KI. I take it from your experience that it's close to necessary if not absolutely necessary? If I'm rejiggering back to driving from Melbourne to Adelaide as the plan, how likely am I to get a clued in person at a rental agency in Melbourne if I call them? Seems like I shouldn't be the only person who would have wanted to drive that route and spend time on KI.

Why are you going to KI via ADL, then flying back in a loop and ending up back in MEL and driving back to ADL? It doesn't seem like the best use of time.

See the comments about it being the only combination I've managed to come up with that fits with a GSR rail journey. As far as I can determine, the only way to get to/from KI is via ADL.

The first thing I thought when reading your revised itinerary was that seems like a lot of unnecessary backtracking!

Have you considered other train trips? For example, the Sunlander between Brisbane and Cairns? See railaustralia.com.au

It sure is a lot of backtracking. I'd seen less information on the Sunlander than the other two journeys I was considering, so I'd not really been considering it. Now it's more of the fact that their website is horrific and doesn't allow online bookings of sleepers, making confirming prices hard. I'll have to put in an inquiry later today, since I'll need to see what the situation is for a single traveller who wants a berth to himself. I'll definitely consider it, as the viability of using it north or south and its higher frequency are attractive. Anyone around here tried the Sunlander?

Blue Mountains
Since you've mentioned you like walking, a trip to the Blue Mountains from Sydney is worth it. Can be done done as a day trip, but would be worthwhile staying at least one night, as a day trip would be rushed (it's about 1 hr 45 min. drive from Sydney each way). Katoomba is the central town in the Blue Mountains, with many places to stay. You can also catch the train there from Sydney, which takes about two hours and is very cheap. The only problem with that is it's not that easy to get around without a car. There are other nice towns in the Blue Mountains, but they are smaller and more remote. I recommend the National Pass (national pass.com.au) - a great walk!

In general, you've picked some great things to do/see, some of which I haven't done but would love to (train).

The Jenolan caves are great too and can take a day on their own.

Ugh. The rental restrictions you can view when doing a booking online show the old language about national parks, etc. still, which is what I was looking at. I guess I should try calling one of the KI locations to see what their actual policies are.

Actually, the Hertz website shows both, which is arguably worse! Although the Hertz website is probably one of the most comprehensive, some of the useful information is buried!

For the terms and conditions you will actually be agreeing to by signing the rental agreement, see Reservations>Qualifications & Requirements>Select Location>Rental Qualifications & Requirements - there's a link to the terms and conditions.

Shortcut link:
https://www.hertz.com.au/rentacar/misc/index.jsp?targetPage=Hertz_Australia_Terms_and_Con ditions.jsp

I quoted from there.

I'm seeing a lot better rates than that from KGC Hertz (at least with my AmEx Platinum CDP), but still the stupid 100km/day. As best as I can tell, my Visa card's CDW coverage will eat up the excess in Australia to avoid the extra daily charges there, but I will need to confirm that with the Visa once I have a better grasp on things and especially inquire about the SVA situation. (Strangely, AmEx excludes Australia but Visa doesn't.)

I actually looked at Penneshaw rather than Kingscote, as that's where the ferry arrives. I think I chose 4 random days in early December (you've stated day numbers but not dates).

As I'm sure you're aware, planes fly into Kingscote. Out of interest, I checked flights for 10 Dec from ADL and returning 13 Dec (as far as I can tell, around the dates you're looking at) - surprisingly, flights weren't as expensive as I thought! AU$95 each way. See rex.com.au. On you're own, this might work out cheaper.

All very confusing. Googling the matter doesn't make things any better, as it seems there are mixed views about whether driving on unsealed roads is necessary on KI. I take it from your experience that it's close to necessary if not absolutely necessary? If I'm rejiggering back to driving from Melbourne to Adelaide as the plan, how likely am I to get a clued in person at a rental agency in Melbourne if I call them? Seems like I shouldn't be the only person who would have wanted to drive that route and spend time on KI.

As it was a couple of years ago I was there, I did some googling and it appears that many of the attractions can be reached on sealed roads. Remarkable rocks, wineries, accommodation, Flinders Chase National Park and other national parks can all be reached by sealed roads. You could possibly get away without unsealed roads, but be aware that if you go anywhere in the national parks, it's likely to be on unsealed roads. Also, if you want to go anywhere on the north of the island, you can only get there by dirt road.

It sure is a lot of backtracking. I'd seen less information on the Sunlander than the other two journeys I was considering, so I'd not really been considering it. Now it's more of the fact that their website is horrific and doesn't allow online bookings of sleepers, making confirming prices hard. I'll have to put in an inquiry later today, since I'll need to see what the situation is for a single traveller who wants a berth to himself. I'll definitely consider it, as the viability of using it north or south and its higher frequency are attractive. Anyone around here tried the Sunlander?

The only long distance rail journey I've done is the The Overland between Melbourne and Adelaide, which was during the day, so no sleeper required. I would love to do any of the other rail trips though!

You mentioned you were considering two rail journeys - what was the other? What interests you about the rail trips?

Actually, the Hertz website shows both, which is arguably worse! Although the Hertz website is probably one of the most comprehensive, some of the useful information is buried!

For the terms and conditions you will actually be agreeing to by signing the rental agreement, see Reservations>Qualifications & Requirements>Select Location>Rental Qualifications & Requirements - there's a link to the terms and conditions.

Shortcut link:
https://www.hertz.com.au/rentacar/misc/index.jsp?targetPage=Hertz_Australia_Terms_and_Con ditions.jsp

I quoted from there.

Yeah, I found that version, too, after you brought it up initially, which was the major source of my frustration/confusion. Having multiple versions of the T&C on the website is a horrible, horrible thing when it comes to something as complex as hire cars.


I actually looked at Penneshaw rather than Kingscote, as that's where the ferry arrives. I think I chose 4 random days in early December (you've stated day numbers but not dates).

As I'm sure you're aware, planes fly into Kingscote. Out of interest, I checked flights for 10 Dec from ADL and returning 13 Dec (as far as I can tell, around the dates you're looking at) - surprisingly, flights weren't as expensive as I thought! AU$95 each way. See rex.com.au. On you're own, this might work out cheaper.

Yeah, I'm being somewhat circumspect with dates for no real good reason other than pretending to maintain some amount of privacy. I was looking at Kingscote, since if I'm not taking a car from the mainland, I'm flying. (I'd already checked out REX and figured that AU$190 r/t wasn't a bad deal once you factor in all the time lost getting to Cape Jervis to catch the ferry.) Didn't realize there'd be such a difference between Penneshaw and KGC.

As it was a couple of years ago I was there, I did some googling and it appears that many of the attractions can be reached on sealed roads. Remarkable rocks, wineries, accommodation, Flinders Chase National Park and other national parks can all be reached by sealed roads. You could possibly get away without unsealed roads, but be aware that if you go anywhere in the national parks, it's likely to be on unsealed roads. Also, if you want to go anywhere on the north of the island, you can only get there by dirt road.

Budget on KI will let you submit an inquiry via their website, so I've done that to see what their policies are. Maybe they'll be illuminating in some way. At the moment, they're coming up more expensive than Hertz, but if I could have the option of driving on unsealed roads, I wouldn't mind. I guess I'll have to weigh the options.

The only long distance rail journey I've done is the The Overland between Melbourne and Adelaide, which was during the day, so no sleeper required. I would love to do any of the other rail trips though!

You mentioned you were considering two rail journeys - what was the other? What interests you about the rail trips?

The three main tourist rail journeys in Australia are the Ghan from Adelaide to Alice Springs and then on to Darwin (or v.v., 48 hours for ADL-DRW or 24 for either segment ending in Alice), the Indian Pacific from Sydney to Perth via Adelaide (or v.v., 24 hours SYD-ADL, 48 hours ADL-PER), and the Sunlander from Brisbane to Cairns (or v.v., something like 32 hours, so one overnight and most of the daytime of two days). On my next trip, whenever that might be, I'd like to use the Ghan to get to the centre and visit Uluru. This time, being December and the day the train runs (one trip per week in each direction), it got ruled out pretty quickly.

What interests me is the experience. Since I've moved from the US to the UK, I've come to the conclusion that there's something much more civilized about train travel than air travel. (Yeah, blasphemy on FT, but I'm flying 10,000 miles in business class to get to Australia, so it's OK to take one train when there.) I took the sleeper from London to Inverness in June, and there's something magical about going to sleep just north of London and waking up in the heart of the Scottish Highlands. Of course, that journey is too short to see any scenery during the trip and it's bare bones. (Thus, much cheaper than the Australian trains. Of course, the Scottish sleepers are actually intended to attract more than just tourists.) The Australian long-distance rail journeys are really tourist attractions that take time to see the scenery, eat great food, and relax from all the accounts I've read.

I think I've come up with a scheme that will allow me to take the Sunlander from BNE to CNS and eliminate backtracking. I could get part of the way out onto the GOR on Friday night (ugh, traffic, but I could bail on the conference a couple hours early to beat the worst of it) and then drive to ADL in two days. Either into Adelaide proper if I'm turning in one car, flying REX, and hiring another on KI or to somewhere closer to Cape Jervis to reduce the driving time back to the ferry. I'd have three days on KI as planned, a night in ADL, then could fly to BNE with ample time to catch the train to CNS. I'd have four full days (no travel on any of them) in Port Douglas before flying to SYD for three full days. (If I do settle on that plan, then I'll have to figure out my options for the Blue Mountains, as I'll have enough time to make the trip and will have to decide how much time it would leave me in Sydney and the transport options.)

Budget for the whole trip is still looking workable, especially if I spend some hotel points along the way. Of course, the funds earmarked for this trip are held in USD, so I really need my country's leaders to stop playing chicken with the debt ceiling and driving the dollar down relative to other currencies. The trend in this chart (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1USD%20in%20aud) does not instill confidence. The pound has been recovering relative to the euro, at least, which should help with an upcoming trip to the eurozone.

I was looking at Kingscote, since if I'm not taking a car from the mainland, I'm flying. (I'd already checked out REX and figured that AU$190 r/t wasn't a bad deal once you factor in all the time lost getting to Cape Jervis to catch the ferry.) Didn't realize there'd be such a difference between Penneshaw and KGC.

I just checked again and it appears they are the same price - about AU$85 per day for a Corolla. Must have picked some odd dates last time where the price was high or a car wasn't available. Or I could have been mistaken (If so, apologies).

Budget on KI will let you submit an inquiry via their website, so I've done that to see what their policies are. Maybe they'll be illuminating in some way. At the moment, they're coming up more expensive than Hertz, but if I could have the option of driving on unsealed roads, I wouldn't mind. I guess I'll have to weigh the options.

I'd be interested in the response you get. Budget standard terms specifically prohibit you taking their cars from the mainland to KI, but I wasn't aware they had a location on KI.

A little extra might be worth it for the flexibility. Budget excess is much lower too (AU$2,750), with no SVA, although that may be different on KI.

The three main tourist rail journeys in Australia are the Ghan from Adelaide to Alice Springs and then on to Darwin (or v.v., 48 hours for ADL-DRW or 24 for either segment ending in Alice), the Indian Pacific from Sydney to Perth via Adelaide (or v.v., 24 hours SYD-ADL, 48 hours ADL-PER), and the Sunlander from Brisbane to Cairns (or v.v., something like 32 hours, so one overnight and most of the daytime of two days). On my next trip, whenever that might be, I'd like to use the Ghan to get to the centre and visit Uluru. This time, being December and the day the train runs (one trip per week in each direction), it got ruled out pretty quickly.

What interests me is the experience. Since I've moved from the US to the UK, I've come to the conclusion that there's something much more civilized about train travel than air travel. (Yeah, blasphemy on FT, but I'm flying 10,000 miles in business class to get to Australia, so it's OK to take one train when there.) I took the sleeper from London to Inverness in June, and there's something magical about going to sleep just north of London and waking up in the heart of the Scottish Highlands. Of course, that journey is too short to see any scenery during the trip and it's bare bones. (Thus, much cheaper than the Australian trains. Of course, the Scottish sleepers are actually intended to attract more than just tourists.) The Australian long-distance rail journeys are really tourist attractions that take time to see the scenery, eat great food, and relax from all the accounts I've read.

I think I've come up with a scheme that will allow me to take the Sunlander from BNE to CNS and eliminate backtracking. I could get part of the way out onto the GOR on Friday night (ugh, traffic, but I could bail on the conference a couple hours early to beat the worst of it) and then drive to ADL in two days. Either into Adelaide proper if I'm turning in one car, flying REX, and hiring another on KI or to somewhere closer to Cape Jervis to reduce the driving time back to the ferry. I'd have three days on KI as planned, a night in ADL, then could fly to BNE with ample time to catch the train to CNS. I'd have four full days (no travel on any of them) in Port Douglas before flying to SYD for three full days. (If I do settle on that plan, then I'll have to figure out my options for the Blue Mountains, as I'll have enough time to make the trip and will have to decide how much time it would leave me in Sydney and the transport options.)

I'd love to do all three of those rail trips! I agree with you about rail being more civilised than flying! And about the Aus train trips being tourist attractions themselves, with great scenery, food, etc. Don't get me wrong, I like flying, but at 6'9", I'm not really built for it! Train is much more comfortable!

Meant to mention that if you did want to do drive from MEL - ADL via the GOR and KI, it might be easier to do it in reverse, particularly from the car hire perspective - it will much easier to get a car from ADL that you can take to KI than from MEL.

In case you're wondering, I don't own a car and hire them often, including in remote places, hence the comments about car hire. Next on the list is 4 days in Darwin in September - car hire there is very expensive if you plan on visiting the likes of Kakadu, Litchfield and Katherine in a short space of time! 4 days will cost AU$500 - 700 for a sedan! And that's with a corporate rate and not reducing the excess! By contrast, I can hire the same car this weekend in Melbourne (city, not airport), for about $63 for two days with unlimited km!

Budget for the whole trip is still looking workable, especially if I spend some hotel points along the way. Of course, the funds earmarked for this trip are held in USD, so I really need my country's leaders to stop playing chicken with the debt ceiling and driving the dollar down relative to other currencies. The trend in this chart (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1USD%20in%20aud) does not instill confidence. The pound has been recovering relative to the euro, at least, which should help with an upcoming trip to the eurozone.

I heard today that the AUD is back above USD 1.10!

I'd be interested in the response you get. Budget standard terms specifically prohibit you taking their cars from the mainland to KI, but I wasn't aware they had a location on KI.

A little extra might be worth it for the flexibility. Budget excess is much lower too (AU$2,750), with no SVA, although that may be different on KI.


Got a response overnight UK time from Budget KI (a licensee, not corporate). The agent was kind enough to send me their rental agreement terms. Key points:


No coverage from dusk until dawn outside the city limits. (I'm guessing this is everyone's policy for KI, pretty much.)
Excess of AU$2750, reduce to AU$330 for AU$27/day.
Windscreen and tyre cover for AU$5.50/day . (Seems like this might be a sensible thing to tack on.)
Can drive on any gazetted road, including unsealed roads. Not allowed on beaches, tracks, or paddocks. (Yay!)
Pick-up/drop-off location (KGC, Kingscote city, Penneshaw Wharf, Penneshaw city) on the island can differ at no charge.
100km/day included. Additional km at AU$0.27/km. (Boo!)


Looking like Budget KI might be my winner. (Note that Budget mainland still doesn't allow their cars on the ferry.) I think I will put a call in to at least one of the Hertz locations (Melbourne, Adelaide, KI) to see about if there are exceptions to the unsealed roads provision for KI, but at least I've now got an option that's a reasonable rate and guarantees I won't be hassled for driving on unsealed roads. Next step will be to see if I can find a discount site or code that will eliminate the 100km/day limit, as 300km for three days isn't a lot on an island that's 155km across. Also will have to consider if I want to take REX to the island and the ferry back. The last ferry of the day has discounted fares available, but when you factor in the coach back to Adelaide for the night, it's only a savings of of ~AU$40 at the cost of about 2.5 hours of my time. Not sure that's worth it.

Got a response overnight UK time from Budget KI (a licensee, not corporate). The agent was kind enough to send me their rental agreement terms. Key points:


No coverage from dusk until dawn outside the city limits. (I'm guessing this is everyone's policy for KI, pretty much.)
Excess of AU$2750, reduce to AU$330 for AU$27/day.
Windscreen and tyre cover for AU$5.50/day . (Seems like this might be a sensible thing to tack on.)
Can drive on any gazetted road, including unsealed roads. Not allowed on beaches, tracks, or paddocks. (Yay!)
Pick-up/drop-off location (KGC, Kingscote city, Penneshaw Wharf, Penneshaw city) on the island can differ at no charge.
100km/day included. Additional km at AU$0.27/km. (Boo!)


Looking like Budget KI might be my winner. (Note that Budget mainland still doesn't allow their cars on the ferry.) I think I will put a call in to at least one of the Hertz locations (Melbourne, Adelaide, KI) to see about if there are exceptions to the unsealed roads provision for KI, but at least I've now got an option that's a reasonable rate and guarantees I won't be hassled for driving on unsealed roads. Next step will be to see if I can find a discount site or code that will eliminate the 100km/day limit, as 300km for three days isn't a lot on an island that's 155km across. Also will have to consider if I want to take REX to the island and the ferry back. The last ferry of the day has discounted fares available, but when you factor in the coach back to Adelaide for the night, it's only a savings of of ~AU$40 at the cost of about 2.5 hours of my time. Not sure that's worth it.

Thanks for reporting back.

I thought Budget KI might be a franchise and therefore have their own t&c's.

No coverage from dusk til dawn is pretty standard in remote areas in Australia.

Windscreen cover is something different for Budget - not something they normally offer!

100km per day is also standard for remote locations in Australia, including Darwin! Hardly what I'd call a remote location! I think you'll have difficulty finding a discount code that will remove the 100 km daily inclusion - I have a corporate code with Avis (Avis and Budget are owned by the same company) which removes the 200km daily limit on 4WD's in large cities like ADL and MEL, but not in remote locations like DRW. If you do find one, please let us know.

Plans are coming together, and I've basically got the itinerary set and am figuring out accommodation options now. For KI, it seems like most places are on the east end of the island, but I'm thinking it makes more sense to stay somewhere central or west. I'm not looking for luxury accommodation here, so am I on the right track thinking central or KI Wilderness Retreat by Flinders Chase would be a better base for exploring?

The other question popping into my head at the moment is about airfare. Since my air segments (other than REX ADL-KGC-ADL) will be ADL-BNE and CNS-SYD, I don't have enough segments for the DJ airpass. Any thoughts on what sort of JQ or DJ fares would be good ones to jump on for those routes? I've figured out they tend to have sales Friday afternoons/evenings Oz time, so I plan to make checking them Friday morning UK time part of my routine, but I'd appreciate any further guidance.

I would be happy to stay at KI Wilderness retreat - looks reasonable (didn't check prices), close to Flinders Chase NP, sealed road. It all depends on what you want to do though. It's a long way from the towns on the east coast.

With regard to flights:

DJ have a happy hour sale every week day from 4-6pm
JQ usually have Friday Frenzy from 4-8pm

Both DJ and JQ have regular bigger sales (you just missed one which included flights up until mid December).

It would be a good idea to subscribe to both of their e-mail lists - they will advise you of their sales and in the case of JQ, their Friday Frenzy (usually on Friday morning, with details of the fares that will available). DJ do not e-mail details of their happy hour sales.

ADL-BNE - DJ is currently quoting from AU$139; JQ is AU$109 on Dec 6 and about AU$150 +/- for every other day in Dec.
CNS-SYD - DJ is currently quoting from AU$158; JQ is either AU$139 or $149 in Dec (except Christmas/new year).

At that time of the year, if you can get flights for these prices, it's reasonable. Anything nearing AU$100 for either is an absolute bargain!

Thanks. I think I'll have to do a bit more looking into what I want to do on KI. The Wilderness Retreat pricing is a bit more than some of the other places, but not unreasonable. If most of what I want to do is on that end of the Island, it seems like it will save a lot of time to be over there.

Right now the flights I'm looking at are showing AU$169 for ADL-BNE on QF and DJ (15 Dec 11). JQ's flight is cheaper, but I don't like the time considering I've got to be sure to be in BNE in time to catch the train. (As much as I hate early flights, I figure better to get into BNE a few hours early rather than less than 90 minutes before the train leaves.) Am I right that QF doesn't charge baggage fees on domestic flights?

CNS-SYD is 21 Dec, and trying to take a mid-day flight puts me at AU$189 on QF, AU$169 on JQ, and AU$179 on DJ. With a 23kg bag, QF wins this one, too, it seems. Fares seem to have been stable, so I signed up for the emails and will give it a week or two probably. I don't mind these fares, so I might just book, since they're not too far out of line with the base level you're saying is reasonable for the time of year. I'm also contemplating using some effectively orphaned BA miles in a household account for one of the flights on QF (15K one-way). Not a stellar use of miles, but there's under 20K in the account and little prospect of the balance going up any time soon. Waiting on DL to tell me if they can get me an award seat (added to my existing ticket) on the VA flight number for DJ's CNS-SYD, since I haven't yet used up my stopover on the redemption. Pretty sure the answer will be no, but worth asking.

Qantas prices include checked bag up to approx 20kg plus cabin bag plus meal plus drinks plus frequent flyer points. Virgin and Jetstar only include cabin bag - everyhing else is extra (Virgin does include limited frequent flyer points).

Flight prices could move both ways - up if demand increases (especially given the time of year) and down if they have another sale. Note that flights past mid Dec do not generally get discounted by sales. If you are happy with the prices, I would be inclined to book asap, especially for Dec 21 - the cost of this flight is only likely to increase.