Italy - Help in obtaining an Italian Birth Certificate

I will try to make a long story short, but will not leave out any relevent information.

I am trying to obtain copies of both my grandparents birth certificates. They were born in different towns, but I have the location and the exact dates of birth for each. I have written each comune twice (in English) asking for copies. I have not heard back. I have found a request form online (in Italian) which I am now tempted to send. Is there anything else I should know or should be doing? I have not sent a fee, but I have read any fee involved is usually waived for this type request. If I still do not hear back, I am tempted to travel to Italy and go to the comune in person.

Any suggestions??

Thanks

I will try to make a long story short, but will not leave out any relevent information.

I am trying to obtain copies of both my grandparents birth certificates. They were born in different towns, but I have the location and the exact dates of birth for each. I have written each comune twice (in English) asking for copies. I have not heard back. I have found a request form online (in Italian) which I am now tempted to send. Is there anything else I should know or should be doing? I have not sent a fee, but I have read any fee involved is usually waived for this type request. If I still do not hear back, I am tempted to travel to Italy and go to the comune in person.

Any suggestions??

Thanks

Have you tried to obtain the certificates at the nearest Italian consulate (http://www.ambwashingtondc.esteri.it/Ambasciata_Washington/Menu/Informazioni_e_servizi/La_rete_consolare/)?

The regulation is the same for every municipality, although processes may change.
For instance, in Rome you can apply by mai (http://comune.roma.it/wps/portal/pcr?jp_pagecode=mun_xii_s_u_mu_a_s_c_certi.wp&ahew=jp_pagecode)l, provided that you send a copy of your ID/Passport (passport in your case) and a stamped envelope with your request. No fee for birth, death and marriage.
Don't waste time with email. Most of the local govts don't reply even to consulates...
There're agents that can handle such requests.
In Italy, civil status certificates are 'public'.

If you can share details about the towns, maybe the italian-speaking FTs can be more helpful.

I am gathering this information for the purpose of obtaining Italian citizenship (blood right).

The Chicago Italian Consulate website is very specific in telling me what documents I need to present and they provide very useful information and links, but other than this, provide little individual or personal help. The request form I previously mentioned was obtained thru their site. They are not about to get this information for me - they expect me to get it and present it to them.

When I wrote the Comunes, I did not provide ID. Do you think I should have? I live in Chicago, USA. The 'blood right' is thru my mother and my last name different then my grandparents.

Lastly, my grandfather was born in 'S Elia Fiumerapido', my grandmother in 'Alfadena'. They were both born over 100 years ago and have passed away.

There is no doubt is anyone's mind I qualify for citizenship - it is just a matter of presenting my documents. In the US, we have a 'debt crisis' and everyone in the government is looking for a way to cut. Sending birth certificates half way across the world is exactly the type of thing they would eliminate. I hope this is not happening in Italy and keep wondering if there is more I should be doing.

call them on the telephone:

The City Hall is located in Piazza Enrico Risi, phone ++39 0776 351801, fax ++39 0776 351801; the E-Mail address is sindaco@comune.santeliafiumerapido.fr.it.

they probably speak english, if you do not speak italian. i have called small towns for a number of things. they are extremely helpful.

"Sending birth certificates half way across the world is exactly the type of thing they would eliminate. I hope this is not happening in Italy and keep wondering if there is more I should be doing. ' I DON't know what this comment is supposed to mean. certain documents must be in hard copy, and probably should be in hard copy. those debt worrying gopers would never believe obama if he did not come up with a hard copy of birth cert. they probably still probably don't believe.

birth certs from back then may be weird looking documents. my mother's cert from IL in 1912 is from a church, and was issued about 6 months after birth. it has errors that are crossed out and corrected.

call them on the telephone:

The City Hall is located in Piazza Enrico Risi, phone ++39 0776 351801, fax ++39 0776 351801; the E-Mail address is sindaco@comune.santeliafiumerapido.fr.it.

they probably speak english, if you do not speak italian. i have called small towns for a number of things. they are extremely helpful.

"Sending birth certificates half way across the world is exactly the type of thing they would eliminate. I hope this is not happening in Italy and keep wondering if there is more I should be doing. ' I DON't know what this comment is supposed to mean. certain documents must be in hard copy, and probably should be in hard copy. those debt worrying gopers would never believe obama if he did not come up with a hard copy of birth cert. they probably still probably don't believe.



Thank you for your very good suggestion.

I hope my "Sending birth certificates...." phrase did not come across the wrong way. I appreciate the help I am getting. All I meant by my statement was that if I wrote my own state, or the next state over, they would not send copies of a birth certificate without me paying a fee - and, if anything, these fees are going up. It would be very understandable if fees were required in Italy also and the reason I have not heard back is because I did not include one. (Although this does not appear to be the case). In addition to fees, I kept wondering if I could have done more - for instance, provide ID, give the reason for my request, provide a phone number....


Calling them is a very good idea and I will do that within a day or 2.

Thank you again, and thank you Alice11 for the good information.

I presume you know this but you will also need "proof" your parents were born before, or without your grandparents, giving up their Italian citizenship.

Each town in Italy is a little different. Older certificates might not even be with the government, sometimes you must find church records (the war destroyed many in certain areas). I've had various experiances finding documents around central and southern Italy and it would help getting someone who speaks Italian write or call for you. I speak Italian, and have dual citizenship, and even then it can be "interesting" for me doing things here that require documents or research.

This is a country where you normally have to go three different places to get a passport,for example. Things are not normally as easy as the US. I don't mean to discourage you at all, but the Italy America Chamber of Commerce, or a University's Italian students might help you translate to write or call in person.

As others have said re:e-mail, they don't even reply to the consulates. I've seen that first hand with communication between the Italian Consulate in Houston and my town of residence in Sicilia.

There are several online websites with stories and helpful tips for getting Italian citizenship (google, bing, etc can help you find them). They even talk about how each US consulate operates, and the waits in Italy.

I know people that have waited 3-5 for Roma to answer, and others were it has taken 8 months. That is Italia. Good luck.

I acquired Italian citizenship for my wife and three sons. It's not easy, but worth it in the end. As mentioned, there are websites dedicated to helping you through the process, and they will make it much easier. I wouldnt try without one. Don't remember which I used. We could not get my grandfathers birth certificate from his small southern town. Eventually, I had to send my son over there to get it. Letters, and emails, and phone calls don't really motivate them. Then I had to get the marriage certificate of my grandparents. Fortunately it was in NYC, but the church had long ago been torn down.

They have records of everything in NYC, but not of their marriage. Seems on Ellis Island they misspelled his name, so identities never quite matched.
Finally, we had everything needed. We went to The consulate in NYC. They basically screamed at us, told us we could never become citizens despite having the documents, and they basically through us out.

So, we went to the Consulate in Houston, and it was completely different. We were welcomed. They gave us some minor forms to fill out. We gave them pictures. Couldn't have taken more than an hour for all of us to get the citizenship. Italian passports arrived a few weeks later.

Overall, unless you have unlimited time and patience, I would work with a company to assist you in this. Good luck.

I have also looked into this and have contacted the small town my grandmothier is from, again no response. My guess is (at least in my case) tha the town is so remote that the people actually do not speak much English, and I speak no Italian.

I'm out of luck on the citizenship though. Moms mom was born in Italy, but Mons Dad was US, so the line stopped with my mother. Bummer for me

Geepmaley, I'm not sure you are right about giving up.

Grandfather born in small town, Italy, had to fly son there to get B certificate.
Grandmother born in USA.
Mom and Dad born in USA.

I had to first get citizenship for my dad. I did all the paperwork for him. Then when he became a citizen, I applied and got mine. When I got my Italian citizenship, my two sons applied, and got it through me. Then, I shared mine with my wife. We're all Italian citizens now, through one link; my grandfather having been born in Italy, and not having renounced his Italian citizenship, enabling it to be passed on.

A real challenge was that when we found out about this process my father was about 90 years old, and no longer in very good health. He became an Italian citizen in the last few months of his life. But it was a great gift for him to pass on to us.

I've also been out of luck in obtaining an Italian birth certificate (my own!)...
Consulates will not help you do this.
It's a small comune in the south :rolleyes:
Sent an email, no response. Sent a letter (on my consulate's template), a copy of my passport and an international reply coupon for postage: no response. I called, but as my Italian is not that great, they were rude and said that they didn't have the time to try and understand what I needed and that I should send a fax... did that and no response. I chased an Italian friend so that she could call: the responsible person was away on holiday.

I'm probably just going to fly over there in a couple of months, show up and see what happens.

About a fee... I think I heard that they could choose to charge a small fee to pay for shipping, but that many comunes just waived that. I've read of services that can charge to get the certificates for you.

Consulates: when abroad, it's up to them to support citizens and non-citizens with any bureaucratic issue. Yet, they are not in charge of the so-called 'Servizi Demografici' -birth certificates and such - and there's no single IT system, or integration of systems, in the public sector. I mean, a consulate officer can not just log in a DB, find the record you're interested in, click on 'email/print'. Thus they can't issue the certificate you need.
The consulate is a sort of middle-man. They get requests, notices etc. and they forward them to the Municipality. By registered email. Then, they get the information / documents back and then they deliver them to you.
This way to manage relationships among public bodies delivers issues, delays and such. It's simply unreliable.

Back to the municipalities: overall regulations are nation-wide, but whether Birth / Death certificates are free, it depends on specific decisions of the municipality. Legally speaking certificates may be e-certificates, eg. in PDF, and you're supposed to may be able to request certificates and such by email or through any IT system complying with specific regulations. This may be true for standard certificates and in Rome or big cities, or even smaller towns led by some decent mayor, but real life is pretty different, especially in small towns with poor resources. In this case, you can hardly find a web portal where you can download the certificate, paying the fee by credit card...
Local staff is usually quite friendly and helpful, so once you get in touch with them, they can manage to sort it out, but on other hand, staff is usually 'obsolete' - old, unskilled - and most of the employees don't speak English at all.

Certificates are 'public'. 'Public' means that everybody interested in may apply and get one of them. This means that also agents, lawyers and such can get a copy (eg, for their clients). So you can make use of them.
I have no idea about agents' fees , but if the research is tough - and it may be, like FlyingHoustonian pointed out - I wouldn't be surprised if it would be cheaper a ticket in low season to FCO and get Alfedena (http://www.comune.alfedena.aq.it/nascita_-_estratto.html) or any other town by car..

The consulate is a sort of middle-man. They get requests, notices etc. and they forward them to the Municipality. By registered email. Then, they get the information / documents back and then they deliver them to you.
I wish they would be willing to do that but I've brought this up twice with the Madrid Consulate and they just say that I need to do this by myself and they won't help (they state this on their website too). Can't blame them really, I imagine that they are a bit swamped with other things.


I have no idea about agents' fees , but if the research is tough - and it may be, like FlyingHoustonian pointed out - I wouldn't be surprised if it would be cheaper a ticket in low season to FCO and get Alfedena (http://www.comune.alfedena.aq.it/nascita_-_estratto.html) or any other town by car..
I just made up my mind and bought a cheap-ish Ryanair ticket to BRI (very close to my Comune). I hope that I can find someone to call them for me before I travel, but in any case I'll see how it goes personally (and finally have a look around the land of my antecesori...)

Geepmaley, I'm not sure you are right about giving up.

Grandfather born in small town, Italy, had to fly son there to get B certificate.
Grandmother born in USA.
Mom and Dad born in USA.

I had to first get citizenship for my dad. I did all the paperwork for him. Then when he became a citizen, I applied and got mine. When I got my Italian citizenship, my two sons applied, and got it through me. Then, I shared mine with my wife. We're all Italian citizens now, through one link; my grandfather having been born in Italy, and not having renounced his Italian citizenship, enabling it to be passed on.

A real challenge was that when we found out about this process my father was about 90 years old, and no longer in very good health. He became an Italian citizen in the last few months of his life. But it was a great gift for him to pass on to us.

I think the key for making it work for you was that your father's father was born in Italy. In my case, it was my Mother's Mother (who is dead and died a US citizen). I looked into this a couple years ago and I think the bloodline only goes one generation through the mothers side, so my mother's father would have had to been born in Italy (which he was not) If I am mistaken, that would be cool. Thx

I think the key for making it work for you was that your father's father was born in Italy. In my case, it was my Mother's Mother (who is dead and died a US citizen). I looked into this a couple years ago and I think the bloodline only goes one generation through the mothers side, so my mother's father would have had to been born in Italy (which he was not) If I am mistaken, that would be cool. Thx

It's not really a generation thing... What happens is that Italian women only transmit citizenship to descendants born after 1948. There's some info on that here (http://expatsinitaly.com/node/135#qualify).

That website (Expats in Italy) also has some sample letters (http://expatsinitaly.com/node/141) for requesting certificates and records.

U2fan,
My mother and I are also in the process of applying to become Italian citizens. We hired an agency near Chicago, ICAP to secure my great grandfather's birth certificate from Sicily and US Naturalization paperwork. They have a person in Sicily who got the birth certificate fairly quickly. The naturalization paperwork took about 4 months as there was some confusion with the birthdate. We have also utilized their translation services.
Good luck with your search.

To all who have replied so far, 'thank you' - I appreciate your information. In addition:

Perche, how did you manage to jump from the NYC Consulate to the Consulate in Houston? Do you have to live in the area to make an appointment? - or are they not as strict about this.

Andreadbc, I am going to write one more time and as Slawecki suggested, call them both this week. If I do not hear back in about a month, I may fly to Italy also.

EMB, I got on the ICAP's website. Most of the documentation needed is fairly easy to obtain, but if one uses them primarily for the Birth Certificates, they seem very good and their fees reasonable. This is a very good suggestion and probably just as good as flying over myself: it's nice to have a choice.

I previously mentioned, I am going to write one more time. There is a small Italian restaurant near my house and I am always going in there and talking about Italy and food. The servers are very nice and there is little doubt they will help with a short cover letter. Maybe there are some 'buzzwords' I do not know.

Lastly, a family member has gone thru the process and become a citizen. Some of the documentation I am seeking, he submitted for himself. This documentation has already been 'accepted' and the information somewhere in the system. I am wondering if the Chicago Consulate can 'pull-up' the accepted information and apply it in my case. I may email the Consulate and ask them if this is possible, but this is only if I start getting desperate. Has anyone else tried or done this??

Lastly, a family member has gone thru the process and become a citizen. Some of the documentation I am seeking, he submitted for himself. This documentation has already been 'accepted' and the information somewhere in the system. I am wondering if the Chicago Consulate can 'pull-up' the accepted information and apply it in my case. I may email the Consulate and ask them if this is possible, but this is only if I start getting desperate. Has anyone else tried or done this??

Perhaps I'm missing the obvious, but if the information from the family member is the same, why not just ask them for it?

Perhaps I'm missing the obvious, but if the information from the family member is the same, why not just ask them for it?

Not a close family member and someone I rarely see or talk to. He did all of this a while ago: in addition the last I heard, he never got the information back - it is (probably) still at the Consulate.

I should have mentioned - not all of our documentation is the same - just a portion of it. Unfortunately for me, it is a portion that I do not have.

Not a close family member and someone I rarely see or talk to. He did all of this a while ago: in addition the last I heard, he never got the information back - it is (probably) still at the Consulate.

I should have mentioned - not all of our documentation is the same - just a portion of it. Unfortunately for me, it is a portion that I do not have.

I know I always keep a good copy, or the original if I can when sending off important documents.

I know I always keep a good copy, or the original if I can when sending off important documents.

I realize Perche was accepted in an hour in Houston, but the way I remember his story, it was far different.

For your appointment in Chicago, you must bring the original and 2 copies. The relative lives on the west coast, but no doubt, had to bring original to his. The story gets second-hand at this point, but apparently he presented his documentation and that was the end of the interview. The Consulate kept his documents and told him they would be in touch. I am assuming the documents are further examined but about a half year later he received a letter congratulating him on becoming a citizen.

Even if he had made copies and I had them, I do not think they would help. All the information on the BC I know, and the Chicago Consulate requires an original.

Deleted:

"Normally" you are supposed to use the consulate that covers the area where you "live". "Normally" they will eventually seek some sort of "proof" of that like your mailing address. But the consulates operate somewhat like government here in Italy so if you know someone or have a mailing address you can "borrow" in a different service area you can always try a different consul. In the past, especially under the prior Consul General we always had good luck working with the Houston Consulate (which is in a highrise near the Galleria in Uptown, near many of the other Euro consulate like Germany, France, etc if you make the trip)
The new consul Sr. Nava seems to have changed attitudes a bit. For example, I couldn't get a passport for my second child (who is Italian) as they wanted him to travel back on his American one, and just do it in italy, even though they should do it per the rules. Gets into complications about whether one is registered overseas or not and such, but my point is, like everything in Italy, the "rules" can change on a whim.

As I said before I know Australians registered in my little commune who have been waiting over 3 years for Roma to act on their paperwork and I know other expats that have only needed around 9 months. again, I don't mean to discourage at all, just go into it with patience and the proper expectations.

I'd suggest using a service like the one recommended above might be better than going over to Italy intitially (unless you just want a vacation too which is a great deal ) If the commune is small, the person you need might be gone, these things happen.

For example a couple of years ago before I had my Italian citizenship, I had to go get some documents and such stamped (Italians love stamps). The two guys that do that had gotten into an argument, and both closed the shop and taken two weeks off each, at the same time, so the office was closed-end of story everyone had to wait. Again, my point is in smaller places you don't always know what you are going to get. My commune ignored the consulates e-mails for nearly two weeks once, then magically 'finding' it when I showed up with copies.

Last advice- Do not get an immigration lawyer in Italy. Not at this stage anyway; it is not worth it. Just trust me on that one. I haven't used them, but I know people who have; it can be a big waste and not get you what you need.

Sorry to hear from Flying Houstonian that the new consul in Houston may have a different attitude. We are ready to go with all our paperwork and emailed the consulate back in June. They told us they were busy and not to contact them until November 1 for an appointment. I travel to Houston frequently on business. Would showing up there on the days that they have open question time do us any good? Or do we just need to be patient and request an appointment come November 1? I realize most of the employees may be on holiday this month. Thank you for your advice.

U2fan - ICAP has been super helpful. We thought my great grandfather was from a different city but they found his birth registered in Catania. And I think their charge was very reasonable. There was no way we could have found it on our own.

u2fan, be aware, it's August, and everything is closed in August. Everybody's on vacation and probably nothing will get done till september.

I think I misspoke with regard to obtaining my Italian citizenship and passport, and also, about the consulate in Houston. The paperwork took a long, long time, and involved many hours of work, and lots of persistence. The real goal for me was to get the passport, as that would be of actual use when traveling in Europe. Also, I spend a fair amount of the year in Venice. The citizenship took a long time, but getting the passport was a piece of cake once the citizenship was obtained. We initially used a NYC address, as that is where my father was living at the time. They were absolutely not helpful. It is correct that you have to document that you live in the area served by a particular consulate. When there was no way that we were going to get anything out of NYC, we transferred everything to Texas, where we were living. The citizenship just comes in an envelope in the mail. It's all a matter of paperwork, with no consular visits required. The consulate is needed in order to get a passport. Once I had received the citizenship papers, I then called the Houston consulate, obtained an appointment, went there for a perfunctory 30 minute interview, and about 2-3 weeks after that appointment, I received the passport in the mail. I apologize for any confusion.

Perche - Thanks for the clarification but I am still confused. So we have all the paperwork - birth certificates, naturalization paperwork, death certificates, marriage licenses, etc. We also have apostilles and italian translations. The agency we have used said that we need an appointment at the consulate to present our documents and prove that we live in the jurisdiction for the Houston consulate. At the appointment, they confirm we are eligible for citizenship. Their website provides information about making appointments for citizenship.
So if I understand you correctly, we do not need an actual appointment at the consulate for this? If so, how do we get the paperwork to fill out and where do we mail it?

You definitely need to make an appointment with the consulate. No walk in's. I did not go to the consulate to obtain citizenship. The hard part was obtaining my grandfather's birth certificate from 1888 in a small town in Italy. Had to go there and get it. Then, had to get his marriage certificate in NYC but the church no longer existed. NYC didn't have a record because they misspelled his name when he was processed on Ellis Island. Finally, with that obtained, I had to submit papers to make my father a citizen. This was all done by mail. Once that was done, I submitted my papers, along with the proof that my father was a citizen. A few months later, I received a birth certificate in my name, from my grandfather's small town, even though I was born in NYC. There was no involvement with the Italian consulate to do this.

Perhaps that is something you could do with the help of the Houston consulate. I just did it by mail for my father, then myself, and once I became an Italian citizen, submitted paperwork to obtain citizenship for my wife and three children.

The citizenship is established when you receive an Italian birth certificate. I have my wife's at hand. It says, Comune di Calabrito, Provincia di Avellino, Certificato di Nascita. Then it gives her name and date of birth, and says, E' nata a El Paso - Stati Uniti D'America. Then it's dated, and says, Calabritto 17.02.2009. It's stamped and signed. So despite being born in Texas, she has an Italian birth certificate, as do I. A birth certificate is proof that you are an Italian citizen.

Once you have the birth certificate, you just take it to the consulate and it's no harder than getting a U.S. Passport. It took less than an hour to process my two sons and me, and we received the passports in the mail a few weeks later.

You may be going a different route than I did if you are going to the consulate for help in getting an Italian birth certificate - the document that makes you an Italian citizen. I didn't get involved with the consulate until I obtained my citizenship, and just had to obtain a European Union/Italy passport.

There are advantages, not just ease in getting through customs in Europe. I have a medical problem and need frequent blood tests. There's something that is sort of like a social security card that you can obtain as a citizen, and you can get free medical care. Sometimes I stay in Italy for several months, and I don't have to worry about getting a visa. I may take a job there, and citizenship is practically a requirement for work. It makes everything easier. And it's really an EU passport, so some benefits are valid across most of Europe.

Perche,

Thanks for the update. I knew that once we received the citizenship paperwork we would get an italian birth certificate, which we need to apply for the passport. What is confusing me is that you applied for citizenship without going to the consulate. Where did you find the paperwork to submit for citizenship?

I too would like to work in the EU or at least have the opportunity to stay as long as I want. Now if I can just secure citizenship!

Thanks for your comments!

The only thing that we couldn't obtain by mail was my grandfather's birth certificate. For that, we had to go to Italy. The small town there just wouldn't respond. We had to go to NYC and dig around until we finally found the marriage certificate. Otherwise, it was all handled by mail. When we finally received the birth certificates we had our first encounter with the Consulate. There certainly may be other ways to do it. If the consulate is willing to help you with the birth certificate, that might be a good thing to accept.

Again, Thank you everyone for your information and encouragement.

I received my grandmothers BC from Alfadena (Thank you Alfadena) which has given me hope I will hear from S'Elia Fiumerapido. Palel I almost forgot about August - and you are correct: maybe in September.

EMB, the more I look at ICAP and their fees, the more convinced I am they are a extremely reasonable.

Perche Your hard work certainly paid off!

Again, Thank you everyone for your information and encouragement.

I received my grandmothers BC from Alfadena (Thank you Alfadena) which has given me hope I will hear from S'Elia Fiumerapido. Palel I almost forgot about August - and you are correct: maybe in September.

EMB, the more I look at ICAP and their fees, the more convinced I am they are a extremely reasonable.

Perche Your hard work certainly paid off!

Have you gotten your citizenship? I'm just getting started! My GGrandfather was born 1883, so I really have work to do. My question is while looking over the Consulate requirements, a BC for my GGrandmother is listed? I have almost no possiblity of obtaining that, as she was not Italian (Swedish), and why would hers matter anyway?