European Rail Travel - Rail or Fly? Overnight or not?

I'm planning a trip for my family and have several questions that I hope someone can help with.

Current plans are to fly into London, then travel to Paris, Augsburg, Como, Rome, Naples, Sorrento, Venice, then home. My questions are: Should I take trains all segments or fly one or more? There is an overnight train from Paris to Augsburg, but should I take a day train? Scenery worth it? Any others that can be done overnight without missing anything?

Thanks in advance. Any help would be appreciated.:)

What is the amount of time that you're trying to fit this into?

What is the amount of time that you're trying to fit this into?

I know it's a lot. Planning on about 3 weeks. However, a few of the stops will be short (Naples, Venice, Como, Augsburg). We will spend the most time in London, Paris, Rome and the Amalfi Coast.

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Train to paris from london, fly to italy; rent a car to see italy

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Train to paris from london, fly to italy; rent a car to see italy

I also think thats good. I was just in Italy and did a really cool tour for my Latin class but I also know some pretty good clubs so if you want any tips feel free to ask.
We flew to Rome from Philly and after a couple nights there we drove to Sorrento. I would rent a car because they have a nice highway, I think it's called Circumvesuviana (around Vesuvius) and it has really beautiful views of Mt Vesuvius. So then we went to Naples from Sorrento. We saw a very beautiful opera house and a nice church and I would say Naples is worth a visit, but a short one. That city is known for pickpocketing FYI. We went to Pompeii and saw the old city, and climbed to the crater of Mt. Vesuvius and it was smoking in one day. The last day we took a ferry from Sorrento and took a tour of Capri which is a must see! All in all though, Sorrento is my favorite and you should just rent a car!

Isn't this the rail forum? Didn't the OP ask specifically about trains? So, why suggest cars? Italy does have a very good train system and it goes to all the cities the OP asked about.

On your trip plan, how did you pick these cities? I ask because your plan is a bit difficult in the sense that one of the cities (Augsburg) sticks out from the rest of the trip and makes it quite a bit more complicated.

If you can be flexible, you might consider replacing Augsburg with a city in western Switzerland. This would make planing the trip much easier and it would also give you something very interesting to see from outside the train carriage window.

If you need to keep Augsburg, I would say flying would be more efficient (although you might better fly to Munich, which is close by) then take the train to Augsburg. From Augsburg to Italy, you may need again to fly since the train ride is over 9 hours.

This is why I suggest a different route - from Paris to, for example, Geneva is only three hours. From Geneva to Italy is also a fairly short ride. If you want to see beautiful scenery, you might ride from Geneva to Zurich and then to Italy.

Are you set on going to them in that order? It might be more convenient to fly from London to Munich, get the train to Augsburg, and return from Italy via Paris

I presume there is a reason for your choice of places to visit (Augsburg is relatively little-known outside Germany!) so I shall assume that these are the places you want to go to and won't suggest alterntives.

As for travelling between them...:

London to Paris is a no-brainer - TRAIN (the only time flying makes any sense is if you are connecting)

Paris to Augsburg also looks like a no-brainer to me - TRAIN again. It's just over five hours (except on the overnight service, which takes about ten). Flying to Munich and taking the train from there is probably going to take longer, and is certainly a lot more hassle.

These are the easy bits. Getting around Italy by train is also fairly straightforward, so that's another easy bit.

The awkward bit is Augsburg to Como. It's quite a scenic journey by train (as you are crossing the Alps), but it takes between 8.5 and 13 hours with between three and six changes (the six-change itinerary involves a ferry crossing from Friedrichshafen to Romanshorn). So you may want to consider flying from Germany to Italy. Augsburg Airport no longer has scheduled services, so MUC is your nearest alternative. The nearest suitable airports to Como are the two Milan ones (LIN/MXP) - there is an also an airport at Bergamo (BGY) but it's mostly used by LCCs and I can't see any flights there from anywhere near Augsburg.

Paris to Augsburg also looks like a no-brainer to me - TRAIN again. It's just over five hours (except on the overnight service, which takes about ten). Flying to Munich and taking the train from there is probably going to take longer, and is certainly a lot more hassle.


Not to everyone is it a no-brainer. The train takes between 5-6 hours, mostly it is closer to six hours. The flight from Paris to Munich takes 90 minutes, the train from Munich to Augsburg takes 35 minutes. The transfer from Munich airport to Munich HBF takes 40 minutes. The total time is therefore approximately 2:45, less than half the time of the train.

Much of the train ride will also be over farm land, which is not so interesting to see.

Not to everyone is it a no-brainer. The train takes between 5-6 hours, mostly it is closer to six hours. The flight from Paris to Munich takes 90 minutes, the train from Munich to Augsburg takes 35 minutes. The transfer from Munich airport to Munich HBF takes 40 minutes. The total time is therefore approximately 2:45, less than half the time of the train.

Much of the train ride will also be over farm land, which is not so interesting to see.

You forgot to add the time
getting to CDG train station: 45 min
getting from CDG-train station to you gate: 45 min
Waiting in MUC for luggage 15 min
If you add everything add you get a real journey time by plane of 4.5h versus train of 5.5h. I think using the train is definitly the better way, since you have to change only once (munich)

You forgot to add the time
getting to CDG train station: 45 min
getting from CDG-train station to you gate: 45 min
Waiting in MUC for luggage 15 min
If you add everything add you get a real journey time by plane of 4.5h versus train of 5.5h. I think using the train is definitly the better way, since you have to change only once (munich)

You took the words right out of my mouth... except that I think your estimate is somewhat conservative.

45 minutes from train station to gate assumes no checked baggage. With checked baggage you probably have to allow twice that. And I very much doubt that someone travelling around Europe for three weeks would manage without checked baggage.

Also, it should be noted that www.bahn.de gives a total time of 1:30 to 1:45 from MUC to Augsburg Hbf, with either one or two changes.

So: Total journey time is more or less the same - probably slightly less by train.

Given the choice between a direct train (yes, there are some direct ones!) and a journey that involves a flight and two or three trains (plus all the airport hassles) I know which one I would choose! I think it would take a masochist (or a mileage addict) to choose plane over train for this journey.

Augsburg to Como
Train departs 0830 ICE, change in Stutgartt InterCity (8min) change in Zurich EuroCity (21min) arrive Como 1615, would be a nice trip

Thanks for all the suggestions. About Augsburg, my husband was born there so it is a must stop...definitely out of the way.

Here are my thoughts so far taking into account what you've suggested. London to Paris by train, Paris to Augsburg by overnight train (sounds like nothing to look at in between), Augsburg to Como by train (still not sure about this...more later), Como to Milan by train then fly to Rome, Rome to Naples by train, Naples to Sorrento by train, ferry travel around Amalfi, train back to Naples, fly to Venice (still not sure about this one).

I've traveled the train route between Zurich and Como which was a nice little look at the Swiss Alps. The trip from Augsburg to Zurich is the hard part. I'm not even sure that Augsburg to Como goes through Zurich.

That's what I'm thinking. Feel free to jump back in and make other suggestions. Thanks again for the help. I love FlyerTalk.

Augsburg to Como
Train departs 0830 ICE, change in Stutgartt InterCity (8min) change in Zurich EuroCity (21min) arrive Como 1615, would be a nice trip

Are you sure it's 0830 rather than 0803? (bahn.de thinks it's 0803...)

There is a slightly later departure, at 0816, which also connects with the 1615 arrival into Como - but involves the previously-mentioned ferry ride across Lake Constance. I'd almost be inclined to recommend the 0816 departure because that ferry ride is really very pleasant. The cost of the ferry is included in the train ticket, and the train stations at both ends are immediately adjacent to the ferry terminal.

Looks like we were tapping away at the same time...

I've traveled the train route between Zurich and Como which was a nice little look at the Swiss Alps. The trip from Augsburg to Zurich is the hard part. I'm not even sure that Augsburg to Como goes through Zurich.

Most of the connections listed at www.bahn.de go via Zurich - there are just a couple that go via Munich instead.

Are you sure it's 0830 rather than 0803? (bahn.de thinks it's 0803...)

There is a slightly later departure, at 0816, which also connects with the 1615 arrival into Como - but involves the previously-mentioned ferry ride across Lake Constance. I'd almost be inclined to recommend the 0816 departure because that ferry ride is really very pleasant. The cost of the ferry is included in the train ticket, and the train stations at both ends are immediately adjacent to the ferry terminal.

^Your right, my eyes are not what they use to be, guess I would have missed the train:eek:

I strongly recommend the trip between Zurich and Como! And remember that Como has FOUR train stations ... you will need Como S. Giovanni to continue on to Milan ... two are freight and Como Nord is a private line that links Como with Milan Cardona ... which although pleasant, doesn't get you to Milan Central and takes an hour and a bit rather than 30 mins ...

45 minutes from train station to gate assumes no checked baggage. With checked baggage you probably have to allow twice that. And I very much doubt that someone travelling around Europe for three weeks would manage without checked baggage.

If they are coming from London by Eurostar, they arrive in Paris at Gare du Nord. From there to Roissy by RER is 25 minutes. Since there is no schedule listed by the OP, they could have a longer wait at the airport for their flight, so that is an unknown.

Also, it should be noted that www.bahn.de gives a total time of 1:30 to 1:45 from MUC to Augsburg Hbf, with either one or two changes.


I don't know what you are looking at, but for me, from München Hbf to Augsburg Hbf takes 36 minutes (no changes) by ICE and 43 minutes by RE (also no changes). So, for example, ICE 1606 leaves Munich at 11:08 and arrives at Augsburg Hbf at 11:44.

Since (I assume) the OP is flying to London from the US, they will arrive in London in the early morning. Depending on connections, they could get to Paris in a few hours. They could probably get a flight that day and be in Augsburg by evening. If they however take the night train, they must wait half a day in Paris for the train to leave.

If they arrive in London and immediately leave for Paris, I would suggest flying from Paris to Augsburg since waiting for the night train to leave will be tiring. If, however, they spend some time in London first, then it is an open choice and either one would work.

If they are coming from London by Eurostar, they arrive in Paris at Gare du Nord. From there to Roissy by RER is 25 minutes. Since there is no schedule listed by the OP, they could have a longer wait at the airport for their flight, so that is an unknown.

The OP is planning to spend time in both London and Paris before continuing their journey - see their second post. So we are talking town centre to town centre.

I don't know what you are looking at, but for me, from München Hbf to Augsburg Hbf takes 36 minutes (no changes) by ICE and 43 minutes by RE (also no changes). So, for example, ICE 1606 leaves Munich at 11:08 and arrives at Augsburg Hbf at 11:44.

I looked at Munich Airport to Augsburg (i.e., the entire itinerary rather than just part of it). The listed connections (some via Hbf, some via somewhere else) are all between 1:30 and 1:45 total.

I looked at Munich Airport to Augsburg (i.e., the entire itinerary rather than just part of it). The listed connections (some via Hbf, some via somewhere else) are all between 1:30 and 1:45 total.

Aha! I flew to Munich four weeks ago and found the same problem with the DB site. There is an S-bahn leaving the airport almost every 10-12 minutes. The DB site does not look at all the S-bahn departures, but only certain ones. I don't know why that is. But my original estimate included the 45 minutes from the airport to Munich Hbf. The train from the airport to Augsburg is about one hour 20 minutes of travel time. There will, of course, be additional minutes of waiting time, but that is how it always works, isn't it?

Here are my thoughts so far taking into account what you've suggested. London to Paris by train, Paris to Augsburg by overnight train (sounds like nothing to look at in between), Augsburg to Como by train (still not sure about this...more later), Como to Milan by train then fly to Rome, Rome to Naples by train, Naples to Sorrento by train, ferry travel around Amalfi, train back to Naples, fly to Venice (still not sure about this one)

Why fly to Rome? There are non-stop trains from Milan which only take 3 hours.

Aha! I flew to Munich four weeks ago and found the same problem with the DB site. There is an S-bahn leaving the airport almost every 10-12 minutes. The DB site does not look at all the S-bahn departures, but only certain ones.

It will only list those that actually connect with your onward train. So if your onward train leaves on the hour it will give you the train that arrives at .50 but not the one that arrives at .40

I don't know why that is. But my original estimate included the 45 minutes from the airport to Munich Hbf. The train from the airport to Augsburg is about one hour 20 minutes of travel time. There will, of course, be additional minutes of waiting time, but that is how it always works, isn't it?

If you look up connections on any train timetable site it will always give you total times including waiting and walking times - because they are part of the journey!

It will only list those that actually connect with your onward train. So if your onward train leaves on the hour it will give you the train that arrives at .50 but not the one that arrives at .40



If you look up connections on any train timetable site it will always give you total times including waiting and walking times - because they are part of the journey!

Thanks for explaining everything to me, Aviatrix, I've only been reading European train timetables for 30 years:)

Thanks for explaining everything to me, Aviatrix, I've only been reading European train timetables for 30 years:)

Well, that's about ten years less than me.

Depends what you want to do and if you want to save any money. Sometimes trains are cheaper (and save the cost of a hotel room if overnight), sometimes flying on a budget carrier plus a hotel is cheaper. You just gotta play the numbers.

Trains are fun and a great way to kill time going from place to place, but have to make sense financially too. Weigh your options.

Again, thanks for all the information and suggestions. Here's an update:

We're connecting in London and flying to Amsterdam where we'll stay for two nights on a stopover. We'll then continue to Munich by air. Plan is to rent a car at Munich to travel Augsburg and doing a driving tour of a few castles, including staying the night at one (any suggestions appreciated). I believe we'll catch a train in Wurzburg to Como.

We'll then continue on to possibly Lake Garda (Is it worth the stop? Gardaland? I have a 15-year-old.). Then to Venice, Rome, Naples, and Sorrento all by train. We'll do Amalfi by ferry. Then back to Rome for the flight home via CDG.

Eliminated London and Paris...not enough time. How long is the train ride from Venice to Rome? Anything exciting to look at? Again, thank you all.:)