Hilton HHonors - Do all these promos simply devalue Gold?

I'm going to play devil's advocate for a minute in this thread... keep in mind I'm usually all for good promos with lots of freebies!

I want to follow up a comment Sylvest941 made in a different thread:
Sorry to be the bad guy, Folks! Do you find this promo normal since some dumb members had to fight hard to get their 16 tays for the regular Gold status? And what is Gold status worth now? I bet that they soon will discontinue the upgrade at check-in...

I first made Hilton Gold on a United Airlines promo and have since been a loyal Hilton guest, earning Gold via qualifying stays for the last two years. That's good marketing: Hilton built my loyalty through a good promo.

However: now that I see all these promos (which, I should add, I'll be signing up for to get the free points), I see my at-first-not-earned-but-now-hard-earned status devalued by the flood of new Gold members. Many messages on a previous thread contained statements such as "I've had a long-dormant account and now I'm swimming in points"--which I understand because that's how it was for me before but isn't how it is for me now.

Many of the benefits to being a Gold are being eroded by how freely Hilton is distributing Gold status. Hotel staff won't be too inclined to grant perks to Gold members if they're under the impression that almost everyone's a Gold member.

What's the solution? As Sylvest941 pointed out in another thread, he's a Diamond and doesn't have to care about the plethora of Golds-- he'll still stand out. I guess that's what I've got to do now-- boost my 16 stays for the year to the 20-some-odd I need, to let the free-for-all-Gold situation work itself out.

How the rest of you feel? How to balance the earned Golds with the freebie Golds?

[ How to balance the earned Golds with the freebie Golds?[/B][/QUOTE]


You are right, of course. When everyone's GOLD, then no one's GOLDEN. Your just part of the mob.

Yes, you are definitely on target. Due to a promo tie-in, I hit gold almost immediately upon "rehitting" the road this past year. Upon acquiring gold status, I did receive a few bennies here and there. -Really not much to scream about other than the 50 percent bonus add-on (a nice touch!).

I too will be heading for platinum for 2001; and should hit the 60 nights without any problems. Maybe their promotion works afterall-we just have to stay more and more to hit platinum. Ha, ha. Seriously, you are correct that when everyone is a gold; then there is little cachet in being one.

I'm going to briefly discuss the contrary view to those suggested above.

Not all Flyertalkers are business people who frequently travel on the "expense account dime." Many, I would venture to say, monitor the boards for some of the very same reasons that all Flyer Talkers do -- to maximize their point totals in order to attain a higher status and/or to earn that free or discounted trip they were hoping to take some time in the future.

I think that these people, and I am one of them, care just as much about their accounts as those who travel frequently, perhaps even more so, as they understand that their attainment of their chosen goal is that much more difficult to accomplish as a result of their inability to travel much for their jobs. Indeed, I doubt very much that those who have attained their elite status as a result of their jobs, would be willing to obtain such perks by dint solely of their own personal travel habits and monetary outlays. Yet, this circumstance happens more frequently than not, among us -- the "Business Travel Challenged."

Rather than their being ostracized or derogated by those who see their ranks now being swelled by those who they might consider as undeserving the benefits of a higher status, they should be welcomed, for these two groups have many things in common, as noted above.

Therefore, at bottom, WE Flyer Talkers like to see that we obtain and maximize our TRAVEL DOLLAR as much as possible, so that we may better enjoy our leisure time. For those Flyer Talkers who travel often -- that would translate not only in free trips, but also into a better opportunity for relaxation when on a business trip. (Please do not misunderstand me, for as an attorney at one on NY's largest law firms, I much appreciated the few moments that I was able to relax while traveling on business.) For those who travel infrequently (business or pleasure), the afore-noted free trips usually suffice.

Finally, as many have noted on these boards in the past, the companies that offer these perks have an ulterior motive, as well -- to build and retain customer and brand loyalty. Hilton's decision to do this helps the likes of me who have loyally been patronizing their hotels for some years now, even though I do not now travel on business.

Although I am not overjoyed by the prospect of people with dormant accounts (many of them business people who had patronized other hotel chains)attaining Gold Stauts and 50,000 points, lest we not forget that those who avail themselves of this promotion by way of their monitoring these boards, are but a drop in the bucket of those who stay at Hilton properties and I do not expect there to be a flood of new Golds who will devalue the perks available now to only the fortunate few who travel frequently on business. Thus, the number of those who might be viewed by some as "Freeloaders" is slight, at most.

When it comes down to it, those who may have received their "offer" through an unsolicited mailing or those who see a "deal" on these boards and take advantage of it, are generally still the "targeted audience" that the airline/hotel companies would like to garner -- those who are aware and care very much about their travel experiences. A small perk will go a long way in ensuring customer loyaly in the cutthroat competition of the travel and leisure industry.

One final point -- with the economy perhaps slowing, business travel may be curtailed and the airlines and hotels may become even more dependent on non-business travelers. Solicitations to this group might very well increase as a way to boost the bottom line as a result of a business travel drop off.

[This message has been edited by DOC 2 BE (edited 01-01-2001).]

[This message has been edited by DOC 2 BE (edited 01-01-2001).]

You might also say a comp Gold is like a free sample of heroin... You might just get hooked and will then stop at nothing to get 16 stays in the next year.

My husband and I have enjoyed this kind of promo last yeear when we weren't Gold, and subsequently planned carefully to achieve at least Gold this year. Hilton's strategy then worked in our case: we had more stays because of the promo. I'm certainly not going to complain if others are going to take advantage of this very similar promo now. I look at it this way: if the promo hooks these new customers, and they increase their Hilton stays, then it was a sound business decision on Hilton's part. If, however, they rack up the promo points and hardly ever spend a night at Hilton again (except for cashing in their one-time award), then the rest of us frequent guests don't have to worry about losing upgrade chances, etc. And, who knows, today's leisure traveler, the twice-a-year guest, may become tomorrow's road warrior (and the other way around).

Also, it seems to me that HHonors have been devaluing their awards pretty steadily over the past couple of years, so I think it's fair that they offer some pretty generous promos from time to time...

I wouldn't worry about the individual hotels, at least, devaluing their other gold elites if they give out a few perks to the new golds. I recently stayed at the Knoxville Hilton and the desk clerk insisted that I couldn't get FF miles and HHonors points for the same stay even though the double dipping promo flyers were in clear view on the front desk. He also told me that it was impossible to get car rental points in conjunction with any Hilton stay if you took HHonors points.

I didn't argue with him but called customer service after I got back and got things straightened out. Hilton's recent generous promos have certainly caused me to try to give them more of my business and isn't that what they want?

It is nice to receive a dissenting viewpoint without the usual expletives and animosity! Seriously, I do appreciate the last few posts on this topic, esp. Doc's.

Hmmm...Well, it is true when the HH program (or any other) is made more beneficial; that this "rising tide" lifts all boats. -Just cannot help but throw in a political analogy. But, I think that the point of the initial post is that when the vast majority are elevated to an elite status, that status is no longer elite. Still have to stand by that theory. It would also seem that the frequent flyer/hotel/auto program goal is to entice the truly frequent customer. In most cases, this would not be the typical consumer on vacation or traveling three or four times a year. It would be the businessperson who travels at least once or twice per month.

By way of example, in 2000 I put in 142 nights on the road. About 40 of these nights were in HH family hotels, about 60 in Marriott family hotels and 42 in other. Per my current schedule, it seems that I can stay at up to 70 nights in the HH family this year.

With <some> flexibility as to where I can stay, I will be opting for the HH family. Primary reason being to acquire diamond status. Reasons for this are to acquire a higher %-bonus and to acquire some form of meaningful elite status.

A total of 70 nights per year with the HH family is a fairly significant number (undoubtedly there are those with higher). It is my belief that acquiring the very frequent travel is the goal of the hotel chains. Hence, it would seem that such persons really should have an elite status; and not just one that the vast majority have anyway.

I agree that the onslaught will devalue Gold. From Hilton's perspective and being one of those that got the Gold under one of these promo's, I have greatly increased my number of stays at the expense of Marriott. I would find this type of promo discouraging if it continued year after year and hopefully it will not. But let's be honest, the points is why almost all of read these forums and if I become a little disenchanted with Hilton and Marriott runs a big promo trying to get my business I'll likely jump ship again. I do promise as one of the newly annointed never to take one of your rewards though (if I can easily discern that it is yours)! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

use the promo to get to Gold faster. However stayed 16 times with hilton since July. I think that the number of people using the promo vs the number of people staying at hiltons is really small. I really do not believe that the Gold status will be effected by this promo. I also want to thank the board for all the helping hints that you provide.

I really think DOC 2 BE hits the nail on the head with this:

... lest we not forget that those who avail themselves of this promotion by way of their monitoring these boards, are but a drop in the bucket of those who stay at Hilton properties ...

Sometimes I find that from having read these boards for so long that my view of things gets a little skewed. I start thinking that everyone is gold with every hotel program known. Then I think about my last 12 hotel stays where I was either the only person or one of two in line at the HHonors or SPG check-in, while there were several people waiting at the regular counter. I heard once that most people staying with a hotel on a given night are not even members of their frequent guest program, much less elite members. While I think FT and FTers I've met are terrific, I do think we have to keep in mind that in our quest for status, miles and points we're not necessarily representative of the public - not even the traveling public.

Sometimes I find that from having read these boards for so long that my view of things gets a little skewed.

I agree with Letiole, but I would have to change "a little skewed" to "extremely skewed." As shocking as it may be http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif , I come in contact with people every day who have never even heard of the HHonors program.

FlyerTalkers are not at all representative of the general public.

Originally posted by Flying Dutchman:
FlyerTalkers are not at all representative of the general public.

I second that opinion. This is exactly why, for example, the infamous www.saveskymiles.com (http://www.saveskymiles.com) site hasn't really taken off well beyond the Flyertalk reading members and anyone who have access to the Internet. (my father, while a very frequent flyer of a particular airline, does not even know how to use a mouse) DL basically says that site represents a very miniscule amount of Skymiles members.

I know I sometimes become a bit scared looking at these promos and bonus miles being out in the open, afraid of dilution and devaluation of miles/points until I remind myself of the Flying Dutchman's mantra and thank the Power That Be for the reality check.

So in the meantime, let's just say that I am proud to be a contributing member of Flyertalk since it makes me a bit smarter and more informed than an average flying/staying bear. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Hoping to see some of you at the check-in line. (so far, none)

Thx
Jamester

[This message has been edited by Jamester (edited 01-02-2001).]

FTers are CLEARLY a different breed of person. I tell EVERYONE I know about the tons of mileage deals I take advantage of and not a single person has ever expressed any interest in doing likewise. Whenever I ask them why they aren't interested they invariably reply "it's too much trouble."

Originally posted by sheetz:
...they invariably reply "it's too much trouble."

Yeah, cuz they want you to do all the work. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

At least that's what other people are doing to me.

Jamester

I agree that the 'general public' I have talked to hasn't a clue of what we are all about..they don't care about miles and they think it is too much trouble. I just relaxed all the way to Asia twice this year in FC by miles thanks to this board! The devaluation of Gold is minimal if existant at all.

------------------
MRKEY

I mentioned the Fast Track promotion to my boss today, who stays in hotels 150+ nights a year. Asked him how often he stays in Hiltons. Rarely he said, and also couldn't remember whether he belonged to Hilton's frequent traveler program. He indicated he prefers "independent" hotels. Indifferent response from a man who will go out of his way, to stay on American Airlines.

Is there some sort of double standard?

In trying to rationalize his thinking, I attempted to analyze my own hotel booking motivations. My booking decisions follow this hierarchy:

1. Property location
2. Perceived quality of property
(AAA rating, Zagat, etc.)
3. Price
4. Chain
5. Unique amenities

Why do travelers minimize the above qualification standards when it comes to picking an airline (you can substitute "Location" for "Schedule" as it applies to airlines). I recognize Midwest Express offers better everything than United. So why do I automatically book UA 14 out of 15 flights? I'm a Premier Executive, not a 1K, BTW. It's not like I get free upgrades.

OK amateur psychologists out in FT land. What's with this airline vs. hotel program double standard?

[This message has been edited by Craig6z (edited 01-02-2001).]

Interesting series of posts on this item. Some miscellaneous thoughts in reference to the above:

1-I doubt that the specific FT venue has anything more than a miniscule impact on the # of HH golds, or any other program for that matter. For all of the persons reading in this forum and the others within the FT venue, have at it on getting the bennies from the specific programs. This one venue has zero impact; the above references about gold status being watered down were meant in a much broader context.

-At least in my experience, there are a greatly increased number of gold HH members out there this year. The above posts seem to be about 50/50 on this. Maybe this is a result of our almost invariably checking in on Mondays at 5:30 PM? I swear that every person in line is a business traveler and a gold HH. -Maybe others are referring to weekend, leisure travel?

2-Never thought about the average Jane/Joe paying more attention to f flyer programs versus the hotel programs. -Now that I do think of that; it is definitely true. My guesses are that this is due to the higher visibility of the airline programs, and that there is some allure to "free" travel versus a free hotel stay. Deep in my mind's eye; I envision a trip to the Czech Republic for skiing as a potential benefit to my ff program. This is alluring. Passing the Embassy Suites (and envisioning my wife and I there for a weekend getaway) on the way to the airport each week somehow just does not do it for me anywhere near the same.

3-Truth be known, I am in this whole HH gig for the double dip program, anyway. I will probably transfer the points for ff miles to ensure that all my various airline programs have the capacity to acquire a ticket. E.g., UA, NW, and AA could all use a kicker to provide flexibility. Granted, exchanging points for miles is not the most efficient use of the HH points, but I just like the flexibility of staying where we want when we do travel.

Leisure travel:
A-Flexibility.
B-Fairly nice place at a moderate price.

Business travel (such hotel nights outnumber my leisure nights 50/1):
A-Proximity to worksite (hopefully 5 miles or < ).
B-Free breakfast.
C-Not a dump or next to a major freeway.
D-Exercise facilities.

[This message has been edited by Butcher Bird (edited 01-03-2001).]

Not only are there gazillions of people who have never heard of Hilton HHonors, there are many HHonors members who don't keep up with the program. When a friend called me to tell me he was at the Palm Springs Hilton, I said, "Did you double dip? And be sure to pay with your AMerican Express. You'll get triple points and double miles." He responded, "Oh, I did give them my American Express but I guess I should give them my Mileage Plus # too." Can you imagine? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif

Interesting comments about the effectiveness of hotel programs vs. airline programs.

It seems to me that the most telling sign of the low perceived value of hotel points is that nearly every frequent guest program provides a way to convert them to air miles, almost implying that their real value lies in their ability to be converted to a "hard" frequency currency.

It would be interesting to find out what percentage of hotel points are ultimately moved to a frequent flyer program.

Originally posted by Flying Dutchman:
It would be interesting to find out what percentage of hotel points are ultimately moved to a frequent flyer program.

I was one of the stupid one who did just that for quite a significant amount of Marriott and Hyatt points in my early (rookie) travelling years.
Didn't know about Flyertalk back then and didn't know that it wasn't a good idea after all. (granted, I'm banking the points now)

Now, one of the biggest mistake I made last year was to transfer 24K miles from ClickRewards directly to United. Should've transferred it to Starwood first! DUH! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mad.gif

Anyways, that's an Omni.

Thx
Jamester

Stupid question...why xfer to Starwood?

You can transfer 20,000 Starpoints for 25,000 airline miles, with those airlines where there's generally a 1-to-1 exchange. Having just joined ClickRewards, I hadn't actually thought about that. Thanks, Jamester. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Before I got spoiled by first and business class, I actually valued my hotel points over my miles and transferred all my miles to Hilton.

At that time, I never considered using miles for anything but a coach ticket and quickly realized that the miles were worth much more in a hotel program.

"I was one of the stupid one who"

Nice to see that the thread just could not go on without a well-written and polite post added to the fray.

Transferring HH points to airline miles is not an efficient option, granted. E.g., 50,000 points gets you 10k miles in most programs and I believe 12k in AA's.

However, transferring is not such a terrible idea if doing so creates flexibility and value in other areas. I will transfer at least some HH points to round out three different airline programs ff miles; thereby leaving me three airlines with flight options.

The downside of conducting the above transaction is that I will probably wind up using USD for hotel nights; when I could have been using HH points. While this is true, there is a tremendous amount of flexibility in staying when/where you want without having to make reservations in advance, find out if a room is offered for HH points, etc.

The promotions are aggressive marketing with a purpose, to win us over. Airlines will do this to win clients in a certain part of the country and hotels will do this to earn your business and increase their market share. I too took advantage of the Gold HHonoros promotion and you know what, I am hooked. I am also a Platinum Gold Passport but the Gold HHonors has won me over. Now that I have a choice in 2 programs at an elite level, Hilton wins my business hands down.
If I had to stay 16 stays in a calendar year as a regular member just to qualify for Gold, I probably wouldn't do it because I enjoy my current perks. Now that I am Gold, I have a vested interest to requalify.

Why do you think Las Vegas gives so many comps, to earn your business and make us feel guilty into spending money with them. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

You might also say a comp Gold is like a free sample of heroin... You might just get hooked and will then stop at nothing to get 16 stays in the next year.

Well put schriste! In practice it often works like that.

------------------
~ Glen ~

With all respect to DOC - I couldn't care less about someone who has to travel on "their own dime" and would have difficulty obtaining the status on their own. This isn't some socialistic set up where everybody deserves a chance at comfort crap. That's why they make the small rooms and the long lines at check-in - for those who don't stay frequently.

I have been self-employed and struggled to make Gold at Starwood and Silver at Hilton - based on my stays. I didn't do it because I was a rich guy, heck I was 26 years old. I made the effort because I wanted the reward. Now sometimes I couldn't afford to stay at a Hilton or Westin, so I would find a room at the Travelodge, Days Inn, Best West or Motel 6. I understand that hotel chains want to build loyalty and convince people to use their program, but this "FastTrack" thing is getting out of hand. It cheapens Gold for those who have really earned the status.

Pretty soon I gusess they'll be comping Diamond for a 5 night stay at Hampton.



------------------
Ken in Sacramento

TravelManKen --

I appreciate your taking a contrary view from mine without any sort of personal attack. That is they way discourse on these issues should be conducted.

My question is, do you still attempt to earn HH Silver thru stays? Because, you don't have to break your hump to do so as a result of the HHonors AMEX Card, which automatically gives you such status. Moreover, the SPG card I think give you Gold.

You probably know about this, but I was just trying to be helpful.

As with most political arguments, the facts are missing. I don’t think anyone here knows how many golds there are, what percent of Hilton guests are gold or how many new golds were comped this year, or any of the other relevant facts. The “true” effect of this string of promotions is speculation. Also, as flyertalkers we are privy to all of the promotions. The general population is only getting what Hilton wants them to get and even then most people probably throw away whatever it was that told them about the promotion.

schriste --

You are absolutely, 100%, dead on target.

You're missing the point. It's what cactus said in the other thread: are these benefits EARNED by loyalty or are they GRANTED as a marketing tool.

And if it's the latter, why in the world would I waste my time and money being loyal to Hilton when the competition is itching to earn loyalty.

[This message has been edited by kokonutz (edited 02-16-2001).]

I don't travel enough to "earn" Hilton gold, so I have no idea what a gold should expect as far as an upgrade. However, whatever the dilution of gold benefits, I expect it will only be short term. As an infrequent, primarily leisure traveler, I have no realistic prospect or attaining gold when this promo comp expires. On the other hand, if I were a frequent business traveler and thiis gold promo caused me to switch my allegiance from another chain, and then "earn" Gold again next year, then so be it, that's what competition is all about. For now, Hilton has "bought" at least 4 nights of business from me, as well as enough additional nights to reach a decent award. And lest anyone forget, the promo is not without benefits to current golds - - there is a 50,000 bonus available.

Originally posted by kokonutz:
[B]You're missing the point. It's what cactus said in the other thread: are these benefits EARNED by loyalty or are they GRANTED as a marketing tool.

And if it's the latter, why in the world would I waste my time and money being loyal to Hilton when the competition is itching to earn loyalty.

B]

If you hate staying at Hiltons and every one of your 16 + stays was pure torture… but you endured it anyway just to get Gold Status… then I guess someone getting gold status without the pain of actually staying at a Hilton might be annoying…

On the other hand if you have enjoyed staying at Hiltons and being upgraded to the Executive floor and the occasional suite due to your Gold status… what’s the problem… jealousy?

schristie,

I think you are missing Koko's point.

Those of us who earned our status through actually staying the requisite number of nights have just been told that we were pretty foolish to do so. All we had to do was pick up the phone and presto, we would be Gold.

There were times last year that I stayed 15-20 minutes farthur away from my appointment simply to remain loyal to the HHonors program. Paid the same or less money, just stayed that far away because that is where the HHonors property was. That is loyalty. These programs that give away elite status like candy are not rewarding that kind of loyalty.

And, yes you are correct that we do not have all of the facts at our disposal. That is because HHonors will not release those facts. We are not ignoring them, we just are not privy to them. But, if HHonors loses 2 Koko's or 2 CG's, members who are fiercely loyal, how many new members do they need to pick up through these promos to make up the difference?

So to be a true winner of this game… To have the ultimate bragging rights... I should try and get a comp Gold, but stay in as few Hiltons as possible, so that my Gold is worth more, because I stayed less to get it.

OK…


[This message has been edited by schriste (edited 02-16-2001).]

I'm one of the first people to take comps from other programs. I only truly qualified last year for Hilton Diamond. Hyatt comped me diamond based on my Hilton status and Starwood comped Platinum because I had earned gold and was 7 stays short of Platinum. I grilled them to comp me Platinum because I had 18 stays (10=gold) and they were comping Plat with one stay.

Same logic in Hilton. It's not a jealousy thing it's just a matter of wondering why I should work on Diamond again this year. All I have to do is send a copy of a comped Hyatt or Starwood card and get in January and it's good for one more year. Heck you can do this forever and have top status at 3 different brands - no loyalty.

That's all I'm saying - there is no incentive for loyalty.

Originally posted by CameraGuy:
schristie,

But, if HHonors loses 2 Koko's or 2 CG's, members who are fiercely loyal, how many new members do they need to pick up through these promos to make up the difference?

CG --

Well, they picked up me and I had 16 stays at Marriott last year in addition to my Hilton and Radisson stays, and they have picked up my wife who does travel on business. In fact she just paid $205 plus associated room and business service charges at the IAD Hilton for a one night stay.

So, I think it is much too premature for you to draw any conclusions.

And, I would like to add one other thing, the very strategy you have used by "rewarding" Hilton with your business, also worked to your advantage by way of the perks and points they gave you. It might seem strange for you to hear this, but you are not alone with regard to your "stay" strategy. Whereas I used to structure my stays around Mariotts for the very same reasons you have provided, I now do so with regard to Hilton.

I hate to tell you this, but your strategy of maximizing your travel benefits/perks is not unique to just business travelers.

Finally, as a number of people have pointed out, the ones who frequent these boards are the hard core mileage addicts, regardless of whether they are business or leisure travelers. I would estimate that they are a drop in the bucket compared to those who stay at the hotels, even on a regular basis. After all, how many other people do you really know in the course of your day to day affairs, really keep track like an eagle on their point/mileage totals?


Although I do not agree with this point of view, many might view your complaints over these temporary changes to HHonors, and other similarly situated programs, as nothing more than infantile whining.

[This message has been edited by DOC 2 BE (edited 02-16-2001).]

That's all I'm saying - there is no incentive for loyalty.

EXACTLY!!!!

And no, Hiltons are not torture. But I DO go out of my way to stay at them and yes, sometimes that costs my company (AND ME SOMETIMES) more.

Perhaps the solution IS to stay wherever I want and not worry about being loyal to Hilton. Then accept a Gold comp next year. But that CAN'T POSSIBLY BE what Hilton was trying to do here, can it? I mean, these programs should ENCOURAGE me to stay at Hiltons, not tempt me NOT TO!

DOC 2 BE,

Your the one hung up on the leisure/business traveler issue, not me.

Also, I never said that the strategy I use for stays is unique to me, or business travelers. It is the strategy that LOYALTY programs are supposed to be about.

You say that Hilton picked up your 16 stays/year. Good for you, and good for Hilton. I am sure you will find that you made a wise choice. I prefer Hilton over Marriot.

But, Hilton has lost at a minimum 20 of my stays. That is the number of stays that are required to attain Platinum at Starwood. So, they have succeeded in pulling your 16 stays away from Marriot, but have at the same time lost 20 of my stays. If you decide to remain loyal to Hilton beyond this year, they have pretty much gotten a wash. If you move on to another program that is offering a better deal, they have lost out considerably.

Your point about this being limited to FT is a good one for discussion. We here at FT are prone to thinking that we are the only mileage/point addicts on earth. We seem to forget that we were addicts before we found FT. I would venture a guess that there are 5 lurkers to every active poster and 10 mileage addicts for every lurker. That’s a lot of mileage addicts who are not active participants on this board.

Bottom line is that people are going to do what they see is in their best interests. If HHonors Gold members are having problems getting upgraded and getting reward travel for desired times/destinations, they are going to look for another program. That is true for members of FT as well as non-members.

As far as people seeing me as a whiner, so be it. I could not care less. I gave Hilton my loyalty and I expect something in return for that loyalty. If I feel that the return is not worth the investment, I'll look at other options.

Originally posted by CameraGuy:
DOC 2 BE,

Your point about this being limited to FT is a good one for discussion. We here at FT are prone to thinking that we are the only mileage/point addicts on earth. We seem to forget that we were addicts before we found FT. I would venture a guess that there are 5 lurkers to every active poster and 10 mileage addicts for every lurker. That’s a lot of mileage addicts who are not active participants on this board.



CG --

I agree that we were probably addicts before we found this forum, but I am not so sure about your postulate that there are so many mileage addicts out there compared to those on this board. Oh sure, there are a large number of people who have FF accounts, etc., BUT how many of them know about these promotions, especially if they do not monitor this board? Moreover, of those who know, how many truly take advantage of these offers. I still think they are far fewer than you might think. But, only time will tell.

But it is good to debate these issues without any acrimony.

Originally posted by DOC 2 BE:
...I agree that we were probably addicts before we found this forum, but I am not so sure about your postulate that there are so many mileage addicts out there compared to those on this board.

According to this estimate( http://www.fastcompany.com/online/44/american.html ), about 200,000 people peruse Flyertalk.

This quote relates to the TTBNS promotion by AA last fall: "Were it not for the FlyerTalk community, American might have gotten away with it. But within hours, roughly 200,000 chatty FlyerTalkers knew which cities American had deemed eligible and which ones the airline had excluded."