San Francisco - Napa vs. Sonoma wine tour

Will be in SF in the next few weeks for a few days and was keen to experience a wine tour.
Having read reviews it seems that there are pros and cons of Napa vs. Sonoma.
I am not a real wine snob but want to ensure I taste some good wines while out on the west coast.
Napa looks a long day and seems that it might be a bit touristy but is the "famous Napa".
Sonoma seems to be a little more intimate and a shorter trip.
Any views from either locals or people who have done either trip?
Happy to get recomendations on tour companies as well.
Thanks in advance.

If you're not going to stay there, go to Sonoma, Sonoma. 45 mins from GG Bridge. Charming little town with good restaurants & some history. Plenty of good wineries as you head up the Valley of the Moon. wj

I would recommend Sonoma. I've tasted extensively in both regions. Tasting is cheaper in Sonoma, and it's a better value. I enjoy Sonoma wines more consistently. Napa has become a bit disneyesqe.

Sonoma, Sonoma, Sonoma. It's cute, the wine is good and the last time I was there most of the tastings were free. There's more to Sonoma than the town of Sonoma.

Napa is mostly one long road full of drunks.

Unless you arrange a very special Napa tour, using mostly those wineries that are available only by appointment, I would do Sonoma. It's less crowded and generally doesn't have the sort of wineries that encourage big groups that arrive by bus. Napa is more of a tourist trap.

If you stay overnight, Sonoma is nice because it's a town and you can walk to some stuff (the Sonoma Mission Inn is fun but has small rooms that aren't special), but there are also some more rural inns, some of which have good restaurants.

+1 for Sonoma. The drive along Dry Creek Road is nice and plenty of good wineries from which to choose. Be sure to check out Lambert Bridge Winery if you have a chance.. one of my favorites.

Well the first question is not one of cost or location, it is more one of what wine you like. Establish that and your decision will be almost entirely made.

Sonoma is a massive stretch of coast and inland areas and has amazing wonderful and yes, often free tastings. But you go for the Pinot or possibly Chardonnay, and of course Zinfandel.

If you are a person who prefers overly sunny overly oaked Chards you will like Napa. (the obvious exceptions are Ch. Montelena and ACV). And of course you would only go to Napa, of the two, for Cabs.

Napa is easy to navigate stretches from the apex of the valley up to Calistoga and up into the mountains on both sides. Each area with different offerings appropriate for the micro-climate the mountain.

To judge one or the other based on how many others find it a touristy destination would be akin to not going to London, New York or Tokyo because of the number of people that go for visits.

In a nutshell, pick a type of wine you prefer, or a type of scenery, and then hire a driver or book on as part of a prearranged tour, and you will have a great time in either region. I grew up there and cannot go back often enough to both.

JMHO

Another vote for Dry Creek area as well - there are great little wineries dotting the landscape...

JMHO

Another vote for Dry Creek area as well - there are great little wineries dotting the landscape...

Agreed - but only if you like Zin. If not, skip it and head South to Rochioli and the pinot places around there, followed by a dinner at Cyrus.

Seems that Sonoma gets the vote and thanks to everyone for the suggestions.
I will book a tour (rather than drive) as we will both want to try the wine and can't see good wine going to waste. :D
Anyone been on a Sonoma tour and can let me know what they thought of the company.
There is only 2 of us so a dedicated drive is probably too expensive.

Also, if your plans allow it, your Sonoma experience will be better if you can avoid Saturdays or Sundays when crowds are at peak. Chateau St. Jean winery on Hwy. 12 just north of the town of Kenwood has beautiful grounds to tour or picnic, at no charge.

Agreed - but only if you like Zin. If not, skip it and head South to Rochioli and the pinot places around there, followed by a dinner at Cyrus.

Maybe they don't like pinot :p I think Dry Creek Valley and surrounds have some lovely non-Zins, but my greater point is as folllows:

Booking a tour means that you are less likely to drink "good wine" (going to waste). It will also mean a different experience than just dropping into little wineries. However, it will give you the opportunity to have an estate tour/tasting, but note that unless you pay for more premium tastings, you are likely to drink average wines.

If you want the small winery experience, where you will have the winemaker or family pouring your wine, where things will be personal, you'll need a driver. (Note, depending on the day of week, the smallest of places may not be open.) Also, note that many of the small places, especially further north, don't have a tasting fee.

Unless you have specific destination places in mind in the Napa Valley, stay away. I used to go up there regularly from the mid-80s through the mid-90s, and then my visits waned to the point in the past nearly-10 years that unless I am going to something specific (i.e., a dinner), I avoid the place.

All that said, I don't have a specific wine tour or limo service to recommend.

If you are a person who prefers overly sunny overly oaked Chards you will like Napa. (the obvious exceptions are Ch. Montelena and ACV). And of course you would only go to Napa, of the two, for Cabs.

Napa is easy to navigate stretches from the apex of the valley up to Calistoga and up into the mountains on both sides. Each area with different offerings appropriate for the micro-climate the mountain.

To judge one or the other based on how many others find it a touristy destination would be akin to not going to London, New York or Tokyo because of the number of people that go for visits.


I agree with you. (And now you are waiting for the "however," aren't you) - the sad fact is that in many of the wineries that a tour is going to stop in, what you will be poured is often a sorry shadow of the label's finest, and a very sorry shadow of the valley's finest. In fact, you could be drinking something with some of Fresno's finest in the blend. Of course, it depends on the tour and stops and price.

we always have a designated driver

but if you are considering a tour this company goes to two of my favorite wineries - Ledson and Kunde. Don't know St Francis

http://www.pureluxury.com/wine-tours/sonoma/

Definitely Sonoma, unless you are specifically looking to taste the very best Cabernet Sauvignons, and you already know which ones you are interested in, and can arrange private tastings with several of your favorite wineries in order to do so. For anyone else, Sonoma is the better, more educational, and more wine-diverse tasting experience. As well as it being a much better value overall Although, a case could be made that there are more truly great restaurants in the Napa Valley.

In general, the Russian River area is known for Chardonnays and Pinot Noirs, and to a lesser extent, Zinfandels. The Dry Creek area is known for Zinfandels and Rhone varietals, and the Alexander Valley is known for Zinfandels, Cabernets, Merlots, and Rhone varietals. The area nearest to Sonoma is known for Chardonnays and Zinfandels.

Some of my favorite wineries for both the quality of the wines and the tasting experience are:

in Dry Creek: Quivera and Rafanelli (requires appointment)
in Alexander Valley: Field Stone and Sausal
Russian River Valley: Joseph Swan, Rochioli and Hop Kiln
On the ridge between Dry Creek and Alexander Valley: Ridge and Mazzocco.
Between Sonoma and Alexander Valley: Chateau St. Jean, St. Francis, Kenwood.
In Sonoma: Ravenswood, Cline

I agree with you. (And now you are waiting for the "however," aren't you) - the sad fact is that in many of the wineries that a tour is going to stop in, what you will be poured is often a sorry shadow of the label's finest, and a very sorry shadow of the valley's finest. In fact, you could be drinking something with some of Fresno's finest in the blend. Of course, it depends on the tour and stops and price.

Nah, point is fair. ;)

That is why I always book with Reality Tours West, driven by the world famous globe trotting Mr. D Hammer. :) He is far more mature about not drinking the whole glass. Me, I am just a slob about it. :)

Napa is a place of destinations I agree. The Disneyland experience offered by most tours is something I would not do on a bet. Same is true of Sonoma though. Too many winemakers that have not got a clue. That said the gems make it worth while.

I am intrigued by the commentary about how Napa is so this and that with the general impression being given that it is to be avoided. I could not disagree more. But then again I like good Cabs. The Cabs anywhere else in the two valleys are just not up to the level I prefer. And the truly hard thing for me to get my head around is I want to dislike Napa for its big fugly buttery Chards, but the ACV and Ch. Montelena really are the best of the best.

All of that said, I have lately been turning much attention to Sonoma and its Pinots. Wow! and then Wow! again. If one does not like Pinot, one need only go to Sojourn right of the square in Sonoma proper and have a tasting. None better for my money.

And final point, how about we get the Wine Do to be bi-coastal. :)

And final point, how about we get the Wine Do to be bi-coastal. :)

With an Oakland reality tour, which of course, will have Oakland wine tasting!

With an Oakland reality tour, which of course, will have Oakland wine tasting!

8-Ball is not wine.

http://www.dashecellars.com/

http://www.jccellars.com/

http://www.eastbayvintners.com/east-bay-wineries/

Most of the fruit comes from just where we're suggesting the OP go.

I know they don't let you out of the City often, but maybe you should :p

http://www.dashecellars.com/

http://www.jccellars.com/

http://www.eastbayvintners.com/east-bay-wineries/

Most of the fruit comes from just where we're suggesting the OP go.

I know they don't let you out of the City often, but maybe you should :p

I would, but I'm afraid of bridges and tunnels. Except orange bridges. A friend has a winery on Treasure Island and I still have yet to visit that tasting room.

We live a few blocks from the Sonoma Plaza, and have lived in other parts of our fine county. I don't typically like wine tours for all the reasons previously mentioned, however, I have consistently heard tourists rave about Platypus tours http://www.platypustours.com/. I see their van parked on the Plaza all the time, and it is nice it is not one of those big tour buses coming out of the City. I remember one couple telling me that the liked the tour so much, they booked it for the next day.

Otherwise, I think the most enjoyable way to "day" visit is just to drive up to our little town of Sonoma, walk around the Plaza, taste some wine, provision for a picnic. There are many picnic spots I'd be glad to recommend. IMO, driving up to the Russian River, Dry Creek Valley, etc. is a bit ambitious for just a day.

Also, be sure to check the events calendar, there may be something of interest.

Enjoy!

Definitely Sonoma, unless you are specifically looking to taste the very best Cabernet Sauvignons, and you already know which ones you are interested in, and can arrange private tastings with several of your favorite wineries in order to do so. For anyone else, Sonoma is the better, more educational, and more wine-diverse tasting experience. As well as it being a much better value overall Although, a case could be made that there are more truly great restaurants in the Napa Valley.

In general, the Russian River area is known for Chardonnays and Pinot Noirs, and to a lesser extent, Zinfandels. The Dry Creek area is known for Zinfandels and Rhone varietals, and the Alexander Valley is known for Zinfandels, Cabernets, Merlots, and Rhone varietals. The area nearest to Sonoma is known for Chardonnays and Zinfandels.

Some of my favorite wineries for both the quality of the wines and the tasting experience are:

in Dry Creek: Quivaira and Rafanelli (requires appointment)
in Alexander Valley: Field Stone and Sausal
Russian River Valley: Joseph Swan, Rochioli and Hop Kiln
On the ridge between Dry Creek and Alexander Valley: Ridge and Mazzocco.
Between Sonoma and Alexander Valley: Chateau St. Jean, St. Francis, Kenwood.
In Sonoma: Ravenswood, Cline

Some very good choices here. I have been to all but St. Francis, Kenwood and Ravenswood.
For some diversity in the Dry Creek I suggest Gopfrich, Frick and Preston of Dry Creek. Out on the western edge near Sebastopol try Iron Horse (killer view is a ++!) & Marimar Torres.
We are also big fans of Martinell, J Winery and Woodenhead.

very overrated IMHO

You knew I'd eventually find this thread. :D



That is why I always book with Reality Tours West, driven by the world famous globe trotting Mr. D Hammer. :)

Agree with the Sonoma sentiments already posted but...

Everyone has heard of the famous Napa. Napa offers one thing Sonoma doesn't... Route 29 and the Silverado Trail. Over the course of driving each of these roads, you'll pass winery after winery. Some are just tasting rooms, and others are fancy http://www.darioush.com/winery.html ;)
For a fancy place, they make delicious and upscale wines. ^

You can just stop in to any of these wineries. You won't get lost. The cute towns along Route 29 provide plenty of restaurants and cute shops.

Sonoma town beats Napa town any day.

Sonoma town beats Napa town any day.

For "cuteness," yes, but Napa has had a number of very good restaurants open over the past year or so. I think the dining options are now much better in Napa than Sonoma, and there's a decent hotel right downtown, so there is no driving required after dinner. I think it's a great way to do wine country.

Out of SF there are many tour operators which schedule daily trips to Sonoma and Napa--these depart from the Fishermans Wharf area. They pick you up at your hotel and transport you to the main tour bus area (near FW), besides wine tours they have Redwood and other tours. I've done Sonoma a few times and the tours get more wines to taste than people arriving by auto. [All tastings are included in the tour package.] Sonoma is a nice city to walk around and explore (for the 90 minutes the tour bus lunch break.)
I once did a Napa tour, the "town" for the lunch break, from my recollection, is really only a shopping center. I did see the Napa Wine Train pass by.
Any of the tourist publications and at nearly every corner in FW area have info/tour sales people allowing you to book your tour.

You knew I'd eventually find this thread. :D
Agree with the Sonoma sentiments already posted but...

Everyone has heard of the famous Napa. Napa offers one thing Sonoma doesn't... Route 29 and the Silverado Trail. Over the course of driving each of these roads, you'll pass winery after winery. Some are just tasting rooms, and others are fancy http://www.darioush.com/winery.html ;)
For a fancy place, they make delicious and upscale wines. ^
.

Well, Darrioush is certainly instructive into the sort of ego it takes to open a big-time Napa winery nowadays. It is on my list, along with Clos Pegase, as the two most ostentatious edifaces to be found in the California wine country. Personally, in the same general neighborhood as Darrioush, I would vastly prefer visiting Robert Sinskey, Signorello, Silverado, Shafer, or Stags Leap Wine Cellars.

And while it's true that there are more truly great destination-caliber restaurants in Napa than in Sonoma, there really are no shortage of fine dining options in the Sonoma and Santa Rosa areas either. And unlike Napa, you can also find some very good reasonably priced dining establishments in Santa Rosa particularly ethnic places.

I need help. I am leaning towards Sonoma.... And i am going on vaca late august with my gf and am proposing. I would like to find a vineyard with a GREAT view....preferably small.....and itd be a great perk if they you are able to make your own blend at the vineyard and label it :-D

We will be staying in Hilton Sonoma Wine Country Hotel. And will have a car.... I plan on taking a balloon ride early on wednesday...then hit a few wineries and end on the one that i will propose at....

any suggestions.... chateau st. jean was recommended... any others? and wondering what/if anything, the staff could do, to make it more special....

bf

I need help. I am leaning towards Sonoma.... And i am going on vaca late august with my gf and am proposing. I would like to find a vineyard with a GREAT view....preferably small.....and itd be a great perk if they you are able to make your own blend at the vineyard and label it :-D

Check out Viansa Winery (http://www.viansa.com/) (founded by Sam and Vicki Sebastiani). It has a beautiful setting (http://www.cavemusic.net/viansa.html).

Their special events coordinator (http://www.viansa.com/SpecialEvents) may be able to help.
Please contact our Special Events team at 707-935-2728 or email events@viansa.com.

This site (http://www.intowine.com/sonoma-county-best-wineries-take-view) has more recommendations.

I need help. I am leaning towards Sonoma.... And i am going on vaca late august with my gf and am proposing. I would like to find a vineyard with a GREAT view....preferably small.....and itd be a great perk if they you are able to make your own blend at the vineyard and label it :-D

We will be staying in Hilton Sonoma Wine Country Hotel. And will have a car.... I plan on taking a balloon ride early on wednesday...then hit a few wineries and end on the one that i will propose at....

any suggestions.... chateau st. jean was recommended... any others? and wondering what/if anything, the staff could do, to make it more special....

bf

Look at Pride Mountain Vineyards for the location alone. I do not think they will put your label on a bottle, but it truly is an incredible view up there and quite a unique experience.

I need help. I am leaning towards Sonoma.... And i am going on vaca late august with my gf and am proposing. I would like to find a vineyard with a GREAT view....preferably small.....and itd be a great perk if they you are able to make your own blend at the vineyard and label it :-D

We will be staying in Hilton Sonoma Wine Country Hotel. And will have a car.... I plan on taking a balloon ride early on wednesday...then hit a few wineries and end on the one that i will propose at....

any suggestions.... chateau st. jean was recommended... any others? and wondering what/if anything, the staff could do, to make it more special....

bf

As far as amazing views, I might recommend Iron Horse in Guerneville, (a sparkling wine specialist) or Hartford in Forrestville - however, I would suspect that neither of these places is the sort of place that would let you make your own assemblage from their barrels. Not really sure who I would recommend for that, but certainly, the smaller, the better - maybe Teldeschi in Dry Creek, or Joseph Swan in the Russian River valley. Teldeschi might also be a nice place for views, as they are located up on a bluff overlooking the Dry Creek valley. Chateau St. Jean is a very nice winery, but I wouldn't really think of them for either spectacular vineyard views or for making your own personal blend.

thank u for all the suggestions...

i guess the bottling of our own blend was a bit of a stretch....

i am more interested in a location with a great view....and a staff that might be able to help me...
Since i like a more private event... i was going to see if chat st. jean would allow me to go to the top of their apex roof...they seem to have a widows peak.... and allow me to have that space....

a winery overlooking a river/valley sounds awesome as well....
i will be googling these places... i just know that first hand experience is much better than a pic from the internet....
thanks again
and please keep the suggestions coming!!!

jq

excellent wine, lovely grounds and excellent staff. We've been there twice in the past couple of months and it's just fantastic.

My wife and I are arriving Saturday morning for 3 nights (booked 2 nights at the Petaluma Sheraton on points) and planning to get a priceline SFO hotel Monday night.

I booked the Platypus Northern Sonoma wine tour on Sunday based on suggestions here. ^

I'm wondering if we should spend 2 days (Saturday and Monday) in SF, or spend 2 days exploring the wine country.

other key notes:
- we've been to SF once before together and loved it
- She's been to wine country with her girlfriends and loved it
- I don't care much for wine
- We both enjoy a great restaurant meal with a view- suggestions?
- We LOVED Plump Jacks restaurant last time. Is it still open?

Thanks!

- We both enjoy a great restaurant meal with a view- suggestions?

Auberge du Soleil (http://www.aubergedusoleil.com/napa-dining/restaurant)

other key notes:
- we've been to SF once before together and loved it
- She's been to wine country with her girlfriends and loved it
- I don't care much for wine
- We both enjoy a great restaurant meal with a view- suggestions?
- We LOVED Plump Jacks restaurant last time. Is it still open?

Thanks!


no more plumpjacks altho there are many other restos owned by that same group
http://www.plumpjack.com/plumpjack/

I hold to the old adage , you can get great food or a great view but not both in the same restaurant so can't help you there.

Wine country is just that, more country, fresh air etc. SF is a city with all a great city affords, You can't go wrong with two days in either location.

Well the first question is not one of cost or location, it is more one of what wine you like. Establish that and your decision will be almost entirely made.

Sonoma is a massive stretch of coast and inland areas and has amazing wonderful and yes, often free tastings. But you go for the Pinot or possibly Chardonnay, and of course Zinfandel.

If you are a person who prefers overly sunny overly oaked Chards you will like Napa. (the obvious exceptions are Ch. Montelena and ACV). And of course you would only go to Napa, of the two, for Cabs.

Napa is easy to navigate stretches from the apex of the valley up to Calistoga and up into the mountains on both sides. Each area with different offerings appropriate for the micro-climate the mountain.

To judge one or the other based on how many others find it a touristy destination would be akin to not going to London, New York or Tokyo because of the number of people that go for visits.

In a nutshell, pick a type of wine you prefer, or a type of scenery, and then hire a driver or book on as part of a prearranged tour, and you will have a great time in either region. I grew up there and cannot go back often enough to both.

Great informative post !!! ^

Cheers from the land of Malbec.... (have some news on this subject, PM if you're interested)... ;)

Gaucho100K

Great informative post !!! ^

Cheers from the land of Malbec.... (have some news on this subject, PM if you're interested)... ;)

Gaucho100K

I think mjm's post is accurate in terms of what is [properly] grown in Napa vs. Sonoma, but it is no longer entirely true of the tasting situation, at least in Napa. Napa has at least two tasting rooms I can think of that offer solid pinot noir options from fruit that is grown either in Russian River or Carneros: Failla, which is just across Silverado Trail from the astoundingly bad Rombauer, and Robert Sinskey, which is also on Silverado Trail just south of Yountville. I like the Failla wines somewhat more, but Sinskey provides a solid tasting experience that comes with some decent food pairings.

In case anyone is still reading this thread, I just want to say Thanks for all the help!
We spent an amazing six days at SF and Sonoma, and could NOT have had a better time.

All the wineries were great, and everything went as planned. I couldnt have done it without all the recommendations and help. Thanks to all that replied and gave your input!

-BudFrog

.....by the way, she said yes ;)

.....by the way, she said yes ;)

congrats! must have been all that wine :)