China - Measurement of train passengers

MoR seems to define ticket requirement not by age (which can be looked up from passport and calendar) but by length (which changes and is not written down in documents).

Does the policy (with thresholds of 120 and 150 cm) apply throughout the network?

Where are passengers actually measured? On entering the platforms?

Are there often passengers being accused of being 151 cm, or 121 cm?

Say that a group arrives, with tickets bought ahead, on a sold out train. How are accusations of a member being 121 cm usually handled? (151 cm should not be so problematic because these passengers occupy a place whether 149 or 151 cm, just at a different price).

Huh?

Shenme?

Is this a joke thread?

I have seen the measured height lines at train stations more just
for customers to check, not for the officials to check. Haven't
noticed them on trains.

AFAIK the height is measured based on shoes off.

As far as enforcement, don't know specifics on that. Maybe honor system?

1 kid allowed per adult. Balance of kids per adult get no discount.
no kids allowed without accompanying adult.... at least those are the rules.

kid is defined as one under the age of 18.

Rules were changed as of 12/2010 to accomodate the height increase of the population due to
better diet.

Is this a joke thread?

Really. OP, you planning to show up with a group of adult dwarves?

The regulation is intended to deal with fares for children.

Little people...

dwarf and midget are not "pc" in the PRC.

Little people...

dwarf and midget are not "pc" in the PRC.

Zhuru:

They have their own theme park
Kingdom of Little People
Xiǎo Ǎirén Wángguó

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peg06nZh0yM

Other than not getting onto a FC car with a 2nd class ticket, I've never seen anything else really enforced in China trains. Heck, most folks don't even know there is a carry-on policy.

They absolutely do it. Yours truly at Xining:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/38035_415070372086_643747086_4869330_2458130_n.jpg

They absolutely do it. Yours truly at Xining:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/38035_415070372086_643747086_4869330_2458130_n.jpg

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that appears to be an amusement park?

AFAIK the height is measured based on shoes off.

Meaning children of certain heights must remove their shoes to get on either plane or train - at airport to prove that the shoes are not bombs and at rail station to prove that they qualify. Right?

1 kid allowed per adult. Balance of kids per adult get no discount.
no kids allowed without accompanying adult.... at least those are the rules.

kid is defined as one under the age of 18.


Meaning that youths aged 12 to 17 can be put on a plane unaccompanied and without the optional unaccompanied minor service, but cannot get on a train. Right?

Also, that adult dwarves do not qualify for child discount, but teenage dwarves do (and 149 cm is not that small for certain populations).

I have serious doubts that anybody at the train station will actually start measuring anybody, particularily a laowai. I also doubt that they care about removing shoes (rather measure generously) or about +/- 1 or 2 cm.

You do not need to remove your shoes at chinese airports, btw.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that appears to be an amusement park?

Xining train station. Serious.

They absolutely do it. Yours truly at Xining:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/38035_415070372086_643747086_4869330_2458130_n.jpg

I have seen those before at train stations, they were not positioned
necessarily right at the ticket windows, like the carry-on bag sizer
display you might find at an airport check-in. Just a guide to help
passengers.

Meaning children of certain heights must remove their shoes to get on either plane or train - at airport to prove that the shoes are not bombs and at rail station to prove that they qualify. Right?


Meaning that youths aged 12 to 17 can be put on a plane unaccompanied and without the optional unaccompanied minor service, but cannot get on a train. Right?

Also, that adult dwarves do not qualify for child discount, but teenage dwarves do (and 149 cm is not that small for certain populations).

Not a requirement to remove shoes. Just a specific of the rules to
further define the method of measurement.

An adult has to buy the ticket for the kid. As far as planes, don't know
about those rules.

Has to do with height only, not any reference to special needs AFAIK.

Friends, congratulations you've grown tall? What a typical Chinese sign.

So was anyone enforcing it? I cannot POSSIBLY imagine anyone enforcing it with any seriousness.

Its not a safety issue, just for reference.

There aren't enforcers so to speak like
at disneyland.

http://comperioc3.com/go/wp-content/uploads//2011/05/Yoda...must-be-this-tall.jpg

Also, that adult dwarves do not qualify for child discount, but teenage dwarves do (and 149 cm is not that small for certain populations).

The average height for 17 year old rural Chinese girls is quoted as 157 cm. There are shorter populations, e. g. in India this is 152 cm.

Since the average is 157 cm, 149 cm is just 8 cm below average. China should have plenty of teenage girls and adult women in their upper 140s.

Now, as for the 120 cm:
is it allowed to buy a berth for someone who does not need one?
is it allowed to buy an empty berth for privacy of a compartment?

[...]
Now, as for the 120 cm:
is it allowed to buy a berth for someone who does not need one?
is it allowed to buy an empty berth for privacy of a compartment?

Are you essentially asking whether you can buy e.g. two tickets for (non-existing) kids to ensure you get a full 4-sleeper compartment for just the two of you?

Yes, I have bought four tickets for three people to ensure we don't have anybody else in the compartment. However, do make sure that you get four tickets for the same compartment when buying them! I have, however, never even thought about buying a children's ticket, but bought an adult one. Interesting thought though ;)

As the conductor usually makes a headcount or even collects your tickets when you settle into your compartment, there is the slight chance that he will try to put somebody willing to upgrade into your compartment. Small risk -particularily on crowded routes, but not impossible.

Are you essentially asking whether you can buy e.g. two tickets for (non-existing) kids to ensure you get a full 4-sleeper compartment for just the two of you?

Yes, I have bought four tickets for three people to ensure we don't have anybody else in the compartment. However, do make sure that you get four tickets for the same compartment when buying them! I have, however, never even thought about buying a children's ticket, but bought an adult one. Interesting thought though ;)

As the conductor usually makes a headcount or even collects your tickets when you settle into your compartment, there is the slight chance that he will try to put somebody willing to upgrade into your compartment. Small risk -particularily on crowded routes, but not impossible.

Or a ticket for an existing child who however is too short to qualify for a berth.

Just how wide are the berths on Chinese trains, even in deluxe soft sleeper? And how comfortable are they for actually sleeping with a bedmate who is almost 120 cm?

For example, a family of four with 2 child tickets bought might get caught by conductor on headcount discovering that the children are under 120 cm, and forcing them to sleep with parents, to put two strangers into their bought berths. Right?

Or a ticket for an existing child who however is too short to qualify for a berth.

Just how wide are the berths on Chinese trains, even in deluxe soft sleeper? And how comfortable are they for actually sleeping with a bedmate who is almost 120 cm?

For example, a family of four with 2 child tickets bought might get caught by conductor on headcount discovering that the children are under 120 cm, and forcing them to sleep with parents, to put two strangers into their bought berths. Right?

Totally unlikely.
When you buy four adult tickets you should definitely be fine - since you will receive four allocated berths. I presume you can just order four adult tickets at your hotel and nobody will ever check or even care, since you're overpaying and not trying to sneak in an 'adult' with a kid's ticket.

The key is getting four, numbered berths (which you probably won't get when buying two adults and two kids - but I don't know).

The berths are probably 70-80 cm wide and I -arguably a spoilt traveller- wouldn't want to share it with anybody; well, I generally wouldn't want to take a night train, but that's another story ;)

Totally unlikely.
When you buy four adult tickets you should definitely be fine - since you will receive four allocated berths. I presume you can just order four adult tickets at your hotel and nobody will ever check or even care, since you're overpaying and not trying to sneak in an 'adult' with a kid's ticket.

The key is getting four, numbered berths (which you probably won't get when buying two adults and two kids - but I don't know).


For example, a standard family of two parents and one child who are used to having the child sleep in separate bed (or crib) and privacy of own room, and who can afford to pay for comfort once a year in their capacity of having found a fortune in Shanghai or Shenzhen (or being laowai) might get 4 numbered berths (3 adult and 1 child ticket) for actual headcount of 2 adults and 1 infant.

Is purchasing an empty berth for privacy of compartment something that people often get away with, or something which is expressly allowed so that the family would have grounds to stand on if challenged? Which they might well be if the train is otherwise completely packed because all other migrants want to visit their grandparents during the same holidays....

For example, a standard family of two parents and one child who are used to having the child sleep in separate bed (or crib) and privacy of own room, and who can afford to pay for comfort once a year in their capacity of having found a fortune in Shanghai or Shenzhen (or being laowai) might get 4 numbered berths (3 adult and 1 child ticket) for actual headcount of 2 adults and 1 infant.

Is purchasing an empty berth for privacy of compartment something that people often get away with, or something which is expressly allowed so that the family would have grounds to stand on if challenged? Which they might well be if the train is otherwise completely packed because all other migrants want to visit their grandparents during the same holidays....

It's done with reasonable frequency by foreigners and upper class Chinese who don't mind spending the extra cash (most ordinary Chinese care more about saving money than privacy). When traveling with 2 friends in soft sleeper, we've often purchased the extra berth and partied in peace. Many middle class Chinese will buy a regular sleeper ticket for a child unless the child is very small. If you want your child to have a place of his own, buy a regular (adult) sleeper ticket and ignore child ticket. These berths in all classes are too small/narrow for two humans to share, unless humans are both 4 years old or under. Bottom line: if you purchase an adult ticket/berth, that spot is yours for the journey whether you sleep in it, put a child in it, or keep it empty. The train staff don't have the right to take away your purchased (empty) berth and give it to someone else. On the unlikely chance someone tries, stand your ground. Carriage/berth assignment is done at purchase, so once sold, that particular spot is no longer in the official database/ticket inventory for that train, for segments you purchased.

1) Make sure all the tickets you purchase are in the same compartment!
2) When the ticket taker comes around to the compartment to temporarily swap your tickets for cards/tokens, give her all the tickets even for empty berths or child-occupied. If she notices a "missing" person, just point down the hall and pantomime "bathroom"--though likely she won't notice or question. She puts the actual tickets in slots in her master book to signify those berths are taken for which segments, and to know which people to notify when to get off (some people get off at intermediate stops). And gives you a card or token with carriage/berth number on it. DO NOT LOSE THESE. She'll come back around during the last hour to swap card/token back for your tickets, which you must keep and show at the exit of the arrival station.
3) Understand that particularly when totalling the cost of buying empty berths for 4 people (assuming a soft sleeper compartment), you might want to price out 3 flight tickets (2 adult + 1 child with seat), as in this situation, plane may come out competitive, especially if you are thinking about soft sleeper on bullet trains, which can be quite expensive compared to conventional slower trains.

Buy a child to keep empty is an interesting tactic. Never thought about that one, then again I often am willing to take 6 bed berths...

Buy a child to keep empty is an interesting tactic. Never thought about that one, then again I often am willing to take 6 bed berths...

You will change your tune over time.

I presume you can just order four adult tickets at your hotel and nobody will ever check or even care, since you're overpaying and not trying to sneak in an 'adult' with a kid's ticket.



What if you could be reasonably suspected of just that - but are actually not?

As mentioned, since the average height of 17 year old girl is 157 cm, adults in their upper 140s should not be rare.

A vaguely teenage looking female in her upper 140s might be a 12 year old trying to look 18 and succeeding, or a 17 year old who is looking more like 27, or a 27 year old who is trying to look 17 and succeeding.

So, assuming that you have a bona fide 12 year old, or a bona fide 17 year old of 149 cm. The age can be proven from ID. Is a proven 17 year old claiming the child discount something that is likely to attract enforcement efforts, to try and prove she is 151 cm pretending to be 149 cm?

What if you could be reasonably suspected of just that - but are actually not?

As mentioned, since the average height of 17 year old girl is 157 cm, adults in their upper 140s should not be rare.

A vaguely teenage looking female in her upper 140s might be a 12 year old trying to look 18 and succeeding, or a 17 year old who is looking more like 27, or a 27 year old who is trying to look 17 and succeeding.

So, assuming that you have a bona fide 12 year old, or a bona fide 17 year old of 149 cm. The age can be proven from ID. Is a proven 17 year old claiming the child discount something that is likely to attract enforcement efforts, to try and prove she is 151 cm pretending to be 149 cm?

I don't understand what you are trying to do. Are you
a) trying to sneak in a too-tall adult with a kids ticket
b) trying to get a full compartment for two adults and two kids

If a) don't do it.

If b) see jiejie's answer. Nobody on the train will even think about checking the height of your kids.

What train are you planning to take (on Chinese New Year?) where you expect such big crowds that they will try to besiege your compartment?

What if you could be reasonably suspected of just that - but are actually not?


You're investing way too much energy into this endeavor. On the remote chance that your tall kids get hit with adult fares, your downside is only around 50 bucks; don't lose any sleep over this.

Buy a child to keep empty is an interesting tactic. Never thought about that one, then again I often am willing to take 6 bed berths...

Could stick a couple dolls in your luggage and make them look
like kids sleeping. Similar to the fake passenger doll used to
get the HOV lanes.
Then put that "Baby on Road" sign outside your cabin.

http://m2.sourcingmap.com/smapimg/en/n/09a/baby-road-car-safety-sign-auto-warning-decal-sticker-33581n.jpg

Consider that MoR is cracking down on ticket speculation and demanding the real names of passengers, certainly on G and C trains. Are D sleeper trains also demanding real names of passengers? If yes, under what name do you book "empty berth for privacy"?

Consider that MoR is cracking down on ticket speculation and demanding the real names of passengers, certainly on G and C trains. Are D sleeper trains also demanding real names of passengers? If yes, under what name do you book "empty berth for privacy"?

D trains also require real ID same as C and G. Just those 3 types so far though, remember "CDG." You'll need to find name/ID/passport of a fourth person to book an empty berth on these trains. As reported on other thread(s), nobody official seems to be inspecting ID's when boarding or riding the actual journey. So the fact that no fourth person actually shows up is likely to go un-noticed...or as I said above, use the "in the bathroom or dining car" trick if it does.

Or, get sleeper tickets for the Z, T, or K trains which are slower but which require no ID. Or fly and dispense with train worries.

D trains also require real ID same as C and G. Just those 3 types so far though, remember "CDG." You'll need to find name/ID/passport of a fourth person to book an empty berth on these trains. As reported on other thread(s), nobody official seems to be inspecting ID's when boarding or riding the actual journey. So the fact that no fourth person actually shows up is likely to go un-noticed...or as I said above, use the "in the bathroom or dining car" trick if it does.

Or, get sleeper tickets for the Z, T, or K trains which are slower but which require no ID. Or fly and dispense with train worries.

And I doubt the MOR would ever move to actual inspection on trains, what a nightmare that would be.

Why not use a discount to which one is legitimately entitled?

If the ticket policies were based on age alone with a clear line whether 18, 12 or somewhere else, it would be easy to obey them, and if challenged about a child who looks old for her or his age, it could be backed up with ID proof of age. But the height requirement makes enforcement confusing.

By the letter of the rules, a girl of 17 who would stand 149 cm tall without her high heels and hairdo is entitled to a child ticket. But if challenged about it - age can be proven by ID, how easy is proving the true height going to be?

Why not use a discount to which one is legitimately entitled?


Please tell us a bit more about your traveling party.

By the letter of the rules, a girl of 17 who would stand 149 cm tall without her high heels and hairdo is entitled to a child ticket. But if challenged about it - age can be proven by ID, how easy is proving the true height going to be?

Very easy for you to prove. Just carry a small measuring tape with you.
What's the cost of one in China ~ 25 cents.

Please tell us a bit more about your traveling party.

Agreed. In one original + 7 follow-on posts, Chorned still hasn't made clear what it is s/he's trying to accomplish, instead preferring to go round-and-round and keep us guessing instead of laying it out on the table. :rolleyes:

Consider that MoR is cracking down on ticket speculation and demanding the real names of passengers, certainly on G and C trains. Are D sleeper trains also demanding real names of passengers? If yes, under what name do you book "empty berth for privacy"?

They claim to be demanding real names for bullet trains "C" "D" "G".
But in fact they don't require a name for a ticket issued based
on a foreign passport, because the claim is the ticket agents
can't read english but TMK their keyboard for input to the ticket machine
doesn't support roman alphabet.

Height marker on BJ-SH HSR

Here's a screen capture from a video posted from passengers
stuck on another broken down HSR on the BJ-SH route,
sweating it out. (Yes, another breakdown..4,5,6 lost count)

See the height marker for kids in the photo.

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j8/anacapamalibu/chinatrainheight.jpg