Oceania (Australia, New Zealand & the South Pacific) - Sydney: Short term high quality rentals

Desperately need help!

We travel to Oz at least once - sometimes twice a year. But I want to extend my annual winter trips in February to become increasingly longer stays.

We currently stay for our shorter stays ie upto say 15 nights or so at Grand Quay on Circular Quay. But it's obviously expensive and not restful for longer stays and I want somewhere that's more restful, cheaper, etc - but within short ferry of Circular Quay. I want somewhere that's uber-clean and luxurious etc for just two people - but with lot's of space. It's got to have a kitchen because food is my obsession, and very clean and uncluttered ie a proper professional rental and not people moving out to get a few weeks rental. So all the known short ferry stops would be great and the max distance would be Manly which we actualy like - and nothing at all along the Parramatta route.

The problem I've found in my web research is that there seems a big gap in the high quality short term vacation rental need in Sydney for people like me - and the longer term business rentals. There's lots for short term beach visits for surfers etc ie groups of people looking for cheap stays for exteneded periods but there seems nothing for short-term quality vacations rentals. I currently pay around Oz$450+ per night but want something less for say 3 to 8 weeks or so that's more relaxing and close to CBD. If it overlooks a beach - great - but with a balcony.

I've been hunting for several years but I don't seem to find anywhere.

Any ideas really appreciated.

Have you already looked at the apartments available at Stayz.com (http://www.stayz.com.au/accommodation/nsw/sydney?numNights=21&maxPrice=400&numGuests=2)?

Try this site http://www.sydneyservicedapartments.net/Default.htm. I have used them in Melbourne and Sydney and it's generally better value than a direct booking - particularly for a longer stay.

Perhaps something like this near Bronte Beach (which is a fabulous location): $900/pw with 7 days minimum

http://www.awaba.com.au/74978/

I've found Awaba to be one of the best agents in Sydney for this sort of rental.

Thanks for the pointers - very helpful and very much appreciated.

I normally use this site:

http://www.rent-a-home.com.au/

If you think about the sums for something that fits your requirements - something uber-clean and luxurious (ie modern) in the eastern suburbs or lower north shore on the harbour perhaps with water views you are talking about a property that costs upwards of $AU1,000,000. The mortgage repayments on that property will be a little over $70,000/yr or $200/day. If you then look at furnishing it luxuriously and providing all the services (electricity,gas,internet,Foxtel cable) its very hard for the sums to work out advantageously for the owner for short term rentals.

Even if the property is let out an optimistic 70% of the time, you need to be charging $300/night just to break even on your costs. And none of that takes into account the hassle factor and cost of your time or the cost of employing an agent which will add another $50/night to your break even point.

Speaking from recent experience (admittedly only the experience of one).
I have a furnished property (http://www.lsdbpm.com.au/pol/property/search.asp?f_propertyID=1547577&xsl=895&f_st=&f_ct=1&f_ps=2 ) that I initially put on the executive short term leasing market at $150-$225/night 4 years ago. The agent took a flat 15%, cleaning between each client was $230 and occupancy was at best 20%. I have found it much better to have the property on the long term rental market with 2 one year tenancies at $800 and $875/week in 3 years. Even with several months between tenants its a far better proposition than 1-3 month tenancies. I've had several offers of $900-$1100/week for 2-3 month lettings but have decided that the sums just don't stack up.

I know none of the forgoing helps you in your search but it might put that search in some perspective.

Sure, prices are bid up to the point on negative gearing ... that is normal in any appreciating market, like SYD and most of Oz. If you reach breakeven, the purchase price was too low :) And will be that much higher next time. Of course the game breaks when demand falls off a cliff (e.g. Brisbane with 40% drops in price in the last few months, for some areas for this kind of property). Sydney has historically been a fantastic investment and with the highest price/value ratio in the world. Certainly redefines what "$1million dollar luxury apt" means! Some would mistake it for modest low-end housing (in other cities).

3544quebec's property is in Rose Bay and I must admit I was suprised to see how much he'/she'd paid for it. It wouldn't be the sort of property style-wise or is it in a location I (as a visitor) would follow up because I see it as being far less accessible than some of the other ferry stops.

I'm well aware of the angst investors have for their buy-to-lets but the reality is they compete in a market with others, many of whom have invested at lower prices - and many others are simply content to have a contribution towards costs because they are hoping for capital growth.

Also, if you are going to illustrate the problem and include all of the costs, then in the same way that people factor in depereciation into car ownership, in the illustration all of the major costs were included but probably the main financial reason for doing this was missing - because it didn't factor capital growth into the financial illustration. Also only 20% occupancy tends to indicate possible issues either with the location, or the rental price demanded or a purchase at a time when the market was saying "no" ...... clearly something is wrong. So as an example - it rather doesn't prove the point trying to be made.

Anyway ..... I'd hate to take my own thread down a cul-de-sac .........

Indeed my mention of break even was a foolish diversion from my main point as hardly any rental properties do that in an income against costs comparison. The point I was trying to make is that the higher end you go in the property market the less likely that short-term holiday rentals will be the best way to go. The relocation market and the long-term corporate market is where you most likely want to go. You specified uk1 a proper professional rental and not people moving out to get a few weeks rental I think that in the higher end most of the properties for short term rental are exactly that - people's homes that they rent out from time to time when it is advantageous to them eg http://www.stayz.com.au/9171 as the demand is very thin at that level and fluctuates wildly in the short term holiday market. Its easy to fill 3 bedrooms with backpackers at $50/night per room at some dive in Bondi. It ain't so easy finding a steady flow of short-term tenants for a 1 bedroom luxury unit at $300-400/night

The fact that you are having such difficulty finding a property that meets your description is also the market saying "no"

Isn't so much as the market saying no as it is setting a high price point; the OP started the thread saying they had the ideal property (Grand Quay suites) but it was AUD 450/day and wanted something similar but cheaper and were willing to compromise on location and some features.

The point is what we all know: Sydney hotel and alternative prices are shockingly high (Grand Quay is running at over 90% occupancy last year, which means $150,000 a year in income per apt). There are some worthwhile alternatives but they are hard to find and hard to rent (many need references, and some agents won't even deal with you off the street).

Similarly I have a friend who has a holiday let in Bondi Beach. It's easy to manage for them as its in the same building as which they live. Achieved 85% occupancy in the last year and at much higher rates than you'd get for a long term rental (giving an 18% return). It really does depend on location.

Isn't so much as the market saying no as it is setting a high price point; the OP started the thread saying they had the ideal property (Grand Quay suites) but it was AUD 450/day and wanted something similar but cheaper and were willing to compromise on location and some features.

The point is what we all know: Sydney hotel and alternative prices are shockingly high (Grand Quay is running at over 90% occupancy last year, which means $150,000 a year in income per apt). There are some worthwhile alternatives but they are hard to find and hard to rent (many need references, and some agents won't even deal with you off the street).

The hard to rent comment you make is spot on.

We've been visiting for around 6 years now and normally we pay upto $525 or so for harbour view which is a bit heavy for around 3 weeks or so. And as we're now planning to stay initially for say 3 to 8 weeks - then subsequently longer if we get on with it - Quay Grand is going to be too pricey. We have just paid our lowest price for our next visit (less than $450 for harbour view) but it's still high and we negotiate directly - but there isn't much of an incentive for them to negotiate due to the occupancy rates you mention.

I really like the Cremone Point area and have seen the odd really nice property on offer - but the agents don't even reply so I guess they are all longer-term rental.

The other oddity about the market from a Brit's perspective is that whilst I book my travel 10 months out or so - extended stays take planning - the agents won't take bookings further than a few months out - and as I'm looking for a lengthy period I'm uncomfortable about not booking.