Choice Privileges - Europe on sale?

As reported here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/choice-privileges/1222364-rome-italy-hotels.html), the Bolivar in Rome is back down to 8000 points/night from Sept. 16 through November 30. In fact, every hotel in Rome is either 8000 or 6000 points/night.

This piqued my curiosity. So, I checked out my other most likely cities, and it turns out that every hotel in London and Paris is also 8000 points/night (as far as I checked)! Likewise, all the places around Nice.

Possible hooray.

Seeing what happened in Rome, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of drastic changes in these levels without notice.

However - late September can be very nice in Europe, and if you've got the points and the time (and the appropriate elite level to make the bookings), your stash could make for a very nice extended visit to the Old World.

If that ends up being available for booking at those kind of price levels when the relevant booking window opens, it would be great indeed. [I won't be Diamond with Choice for a while, so the booking window for me is substantially less than 100 days IIRC.] That said, until today I had not noticed that some Comfort Hotel in Italy is going for 40,000 points per night later this month.

Hmmm. Even the 75,000 (!) point/night hotels in New Zealand are down to 8000 points/night, most of them seem to start that rate in July.

What's going on?

Well, I have some time on my hands and an inquiring mind. Here's my half-baked theory:

CP Diamonds could start making award rezzes for Sept 16 as early as June 8, so they had to put something in. The easiest thing to do is just assign everything some number (8000 points) and deal with the details later. Bolstering this theory is the fact that the Comfort Hotel CDG was 6000 points up to Sept. 15, and has been raised to 8000 points with the new schedule. Since normally one would expect the redemption rate to go down as the high season expires, it's a little odd to see the rate go up.

However, I'm pretty sure I've seen at least one property change to 6000 points, so maybe the process isn't as automatic as I thought.

At any rate, ther new numbers are quite attractive, but for how long? Well, I've got a theory on that, too.

The Diamond window is 100 days. For Platinums, it's 75 days, and for Golds it's 50 days. Suppose they decided that, as an unpublished benefit (maybe even an unintended one :)), they would announce these low rates and keep them in effect while the Diamond window was open, and maybe even into the Platinum window. Then when the window was getting ready to open for Golds and dirt, the rates would go up. Thus, not only would Diamonds/Plats get more points for their stays, they would also have access to award inventory at greatly reduced rates.

If this were true, I think it would be a tremendous incentive to go for at least Platinum status.

Or, I could be just whistling in the dark, and there's really no logical reason why Choice does what it does with award rates.

Whatever the explanation, expediting a status match to Platinum or Diamond status (whatever is possible) is becoming a lot more attractive.

I think there may be something to BigLar's theory. There's a similar reduction of points in and around London. I looked today because I may spend a couple of days there in late August as a stopover on my way home from a trip to Scotland. Of course, the new rates don't take effect until the latter half of September, but I noticed that almost all of the London hotels, whether the Quality Hotel at Wembley, priced at 106 pounds for my dates, or the Comfort Inn at Heathrow, priced at less than 40, will both be 8000 points by the latter half of September.

And I agree that getting higher status and a longer booking window may now be the strategy with Choice.

As a Diamond, the 100-day window just opened for me a few days into the post-Sep-16 8k date range. I booked some nights at Comfort Hotel Diana in Venice at the 8k range, and for each of the 4 (non-smoking) room types it offered me it said there was only one room left.

So for at least this hotel, I'm not sure how many without high Choice status will be able to take advantage of it (at least in mid-September)!

(I doubt it's being all booked up by Choice Diamonds, it's just that it's booking up fast even months ahead, so by the time lower elite's or non-elite's booking windows get there, the hotel could be completely booked, at least for the types of rooms it offers for Rewards Nights.)

I'm noticing the Quality Hotel in Milan is already completely sold out for several of the days I could have booked it for at 8K already (I was just looking as an experiment, since I don't need it on those days). So it's not just in Venice that Choice hotels in Italy can sell out far ahead.

(By "completely" sold out, I mean no rooms at Best Available Rate, not just no Reward rooms.)

Just to clarify: Europe is on sale only on points. The prices in real money can be really high still in the second half of September (at the start of the 8k redemption rate season). Which makes this points sale all the more valuable. Examples:

Both hotels I booked in Italy at 8k/night were valued at much more than what it cost me to get 8k through the "stay 2 get 8k" offers. The one in Venice is 180 Euros per night for the cheapest room and about 300 Euros per night for the room I actually reserved, and the one in Milan is 130 Euros per night for the cheapest room and just under 200 Euros per night for the room I actually reserved.

Currency rates can of course fluctuate, but at this moment, xe.com says:

130 Euros = $184ish
180 Euros = $255ish
200 Euros = $283ish
300 Euros = $425ish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Meanwhile, I'm earning 8k for two suburban hotel stays (all Comfort Inns lately) between $55 and $75 per night (including taxes), and thus between $110 and $150 for the 2 nights needed to earn the 8k. (And I need those hotel stays anyway -- they're not MRs -- and these Choice hotels are among the very least expensive ones in the area, so I'm not spending anything much extra by staying there.)

If this sounds attractive to you, I suggest you plan your vacation sooner rather than later. For one thing, as I said, these hotels are booking fast on some nights for this year (and so far, only Diamonds can book in mid-Sep).

Second, I think the reason for the "loophole" that allows this is that Choice Privileges uses the same Sep 16 date for switching to "shoulder season" redemption rates for every property in the world, even though the "high season" calendar varies signficantly from property to property. Someday Choice may "fix" this loophole, and then you may only be able to get good redemption rates like this in the locally low season.

I think the reason for the "loophole" that allows this is that Choice Privileges uses the same Sep 16 date for switching to "shoulder season" redemption rates for every property in the world, even though the "high season" calendar varies signficantly from property to property. Someday Choice may "fix" this loophole, and then you may only be able to get good redemption rates like this in the locally low season.

I agree that prudent action dictates booking these as soon as possible. I'm just not sure that a loophole explains this behavior. It may just be a reflection of Choice's odd loyalty program which seems to have little logic to it. For example, in Wilmington, NC, there's a Comfort Inn that's near UNC-Wilmington. The spring redemption rate is 12000 points. Beginning July 1, that drops to 10000 points. OK, I get that, despite Wilmington's location near lots of beaches that might attract lots of tourists and that might make that a "high" season there, because it's nominally a hotel that attracts guests associated with the university.

But, under that theory, the rate should rise back to 12000 points come 9/16; instead, it drops again, this time to 8000 points. The redemption rate does fit the theory that rates should fall beginning 9/16, but the summer redemption rate does not.

I think finding logic in Choice's program is an elusive goal, but there's no doubt about it, getting status with Choice may be the best strategy for dealing with, and taking advantage of the program's odd behavior.

I want to add my thanks, by the way, to all the folks here who suggested that buying Choice points during the Discover America promo was a good play. I now understand how these points can be very valuable. If Choice participates next year, I'll be sure to get my grubby little hands on as many of those points as I can, especially because my travel plans in 2012 put me in more foreign locales where Choice properties can be had for a great value in points.

If this sounds attractive to you, I suggest you plan your vacation sooner rather than later. Alas, my dates are fixed for mid-October (flights booked, other hotels booked, vacations scheduled, etc.)

However, the places I'm looking at for Choice were only 12,000 during the high season, so if they reduce during shoulder season to even 10,000, I'll probably be all right. In actuality, the place I'm looking at was 8000 points last year in the October time frame, so I'm hoping I'll have enough of a stash to make it happen.

I've dropped down to Gold, so my window is only 60 days (not 50 as I mentioned above), so come sometime in August I'll be looking to make it happen.

I'm getting close to booking time, and I'm starting to get nervous.

The rate is still 8000 points/night for essentially every hotel in Europe, starting Sept. 16.

I'm looking to book rooms in Paris (3 rooms for 4 nights each - 12 room-nights in total) for October 15, 16, 17, and 18. Which means that, with my 60 day window (Gold), I can't book the whole slug until Aug. 19.

The Diamonds have a 100 day window, which means they could have started to book rooms at this rate June 8.

Platinums have a 75 day window, so they could have started booking July 3.

Golds (60 day window) could have started booking July 18.

No status members have a 30 day window, so their booking period starts August 17.

So ... if there's any truth to my supposition (post #3) that this is a hidden benefit of elite status, Choice would be re-jiggering the award levels about Aug 15 in order to avoid opening all of Europe to ordinary folks who just have points but no stays. OK for them, but it would screw me.

I'm tempted to start booking award nights one night at a time (I can start Aug 16) and see how far I get. If I even get the chance.

I wonder if I call Choice they would have any insight into what's likely to happen? I must admit, after the Rome deal, I'm a little surprised that these levels have remained in effect for so long.

As the US customer's window for such properties has already opened (even if without elite status):

Choice Privileges Reward Nights (all members)

1. You may redeem a free night for as little as 6,000 points. Reward nights worldwide are available from 6,000 to 35,000 points (excluding Australasia where points required are up to 75,000).

2. If you reside in the U.S. (including U.S. Territories) or Canada you must make your free room night reservations personally through the Program Line or through your online profile no more than 30 days prior to your planned arrival for stays in the U.S and Canada or 60 days prior to your planned arrival at all hotels in Hawaii and all other locations worldwide.

3. If you reside in Europe, the Middle East or Africa, you must make your reward night reservations personally through the Program Line or through your online profile no more than 30 days prior to your planned arrival for stays in Europe and the Middle East or 60 days prior to your planned arrival at all other locations worldwide.

4. If you reside in Australasia (including Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Papua New Guinea and Fiji) you must make your reward night reservations personally through the Program Line or through your online profile no more than 30 days prior to your planned arrival for stays in Australasia (including Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Papua New Guinea and Fiji) or 60 days prior to your planned arrival at all other locations worldwide.

5. If you reside in Mexico, Central America or the Caribbean, you must make your reward night reservations personally through the Program Line or through your online profile no more than 30 days prior to your planned arrival for stays in Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean or 60 days prior to your planned arrival at all other locations worldwide.

http://www.choicehotels.com/en/choice-privileges/gp/rules-regulations#hotel_benefits

I'm going to go ahead and book myself a bunch before the 15th. Combined with burning off some BA points under the 50% off promotion, might as well do so. Thanks for the reminder, regardless of what happens.

No status members have a 30 day window, so their booking period starts August 17.
Since when? I thought there was always a longer booking window for overseas than for domestic (for those who had a short domestic booking window), and that the 30 day window was only for domestic? (I know GUWonder's quote says this, but my point is that I thought this was always the case, dating back to before they had anything longer for elites.)

Since when? I thought there was always a longer booking window for overseas than for domestic (for those who had a short domestic booking window), and that the 30 day window was only for domestic? (I know GUWonder's quote says this, but my point is that I thought this was always the case, dating back to before they had anything longer for elites.)You're right.

For no status members:

If you reside in the U.S. (including U.S. Territories) or Canada you must make your free room night reservations personally through the Program Line or through your online profile no more than 30 days prior to your planned arrival for stays in the U.S and Canada or 60 days prior to your planned arrival at all hotels in Hawaii and all other locations worldwide.

For Gold Elite:

If you are an Elite Gold member residing in the U.S. or Canada you must make your free room night reservations personally through the Program Line or through your online profile no more than 50 days prior to your planned arrival for all stays in the U.S and Canada or 60 days prior to your planned arrival at all hotels in Hawaii and all other locations worldwide.

So, for awards, it seems the only benefit for Golds is a slightly longer window for domestic bookings.

It seems that no-status members have been able to book at the 8K rate since July 18.

Well, I feel a little stupid. but on the other hand, my theory goes up in smoke and there's no particular reason (other than Choice's capriciousness :)) to worry about them pulling the rug out.

BigLar, I'm kind of intrigued. Although it seems to make no difference for foreign bookings, why haven't you taken a Choice Privileges Visa (other than the outrageous numbers of credit cards all of us at FT seem to have) for their automatic gold status? No fee, and I think the good promo that awards 24K Choice points for first purchase plus 8K more for the first booking at a Choice property is still good. I used this with the just expired promotion to rack up 40,000 points which, if things stay as they are (I know, it's Choice, so unlikely) will get me five nights in London at just about any property during the winter months.

... why haven't you taken a Choice Privileges Visa (other than the outrageous numbers of credit cards all of us at FT seem to have) for their automatic gold status? I've had the Choice Visa since the new one was announced last year. Already got the bonus and I guess that's why I'm Gold, since I haven't stayed in a Choice hotel (or any hotel, for that matter) in two years.

Unemployment does seem to cut down on your points earning ability. :)

The day has come, and I was successful!

Got 3 rooms for 4 nights at the Clarion Collection Hotel Opera Pavillon (http://www.clarionhotel.com/hotel-paris-france-FR402?sid=xyUEAi.LhrcOgOkS.1), for 8000 points/night.

The hotel gets decent reviews, is not too far out of the center of Paris (9th arrondissment), easy walk to Pigalle and Montmarte, and free breakfast!

OK - it's not George V, but for our purposes, it should be fine.

I guess I can stop playing with my worry beads now. :)

Thank you very much, BigLar, congratulations and bon voyage! I think this may represent the deal of (at least) the year, especially following the 8000-for-2-stays promo. Possibly historic among FlyerTalk finds. I cannot imagine that owners/franchisees/managers will allow this to happen again.

Gah! I've been asleep at the wheel, not paying attention until now, spending when I ought to have been "investing" -- wasting points on some domestic properties whose $$ prices spiked weekends ($71 :rolleyes:). Time to really get to work.

I actually found a hotel for more than 8,000 points in Europe during the (sale)! It's the Clarion Hotel Prague Old Town for 16,000. I only bring it up because it's such an oddity :D. (It's not because it's Prague -- several others there are 8,000.) I see only 8,000 point properties across the continent otherwise. No 6,000 ones. And availability is phenomenal as one moves beyond September and city centers (though, so far, the latter aspect eases later and later). Properties that would be three or more times this rate, this side of 9/16.

A friend of mine is going to be staying in the Toronto area (Canada is international, right?) and he asked me to do a little checking for him.

I found this place (http://www.qualityinn.com/hotel-oakville-canada-CN135?sid=xGep9.57QvOgLdz.11) which seems fairly good. The points rate during the upcoming 'season' is 12,000 points/night. During the 'regular' season, it's only 8000 points/night.

Then I found this place (http://www.comfortinn.com/hotel-mississauga-canada-CN391?sid=xGep9.57QvOgLdz.11). Yes, it's 8000 points/night this Fall, but during the regular season it's only 6000 points/night.

If someone could come up with a reasonable explanation of just how Choice determines their redemption rates, I'd sure be interested in hearing it, 'cuz it certainly looks impenetrable to me. :)

To your examples: Fall foliage? I'd guess that the franchisees set the point price, but again, I can't imagine most of the ones in Europe liking the 8,000 "standard", so I dunno...

I'd guess that the franchisees set the point price, but again, I can't imagine most of the ones in Europe liking the 8,000 "standard", so I dunno...

I don't know why they would dislike an 8,000 point "standard", as long as there is payment settlement at an acceptable level for the property owners/managers.

As I discovered when some properties in Northern Europe had problems with my point bookings -- as when they couldn't find the bookings or didn't know how the room payments were being charged -- some employees of the hotels (those working the front desk and even some managers) thought 8,000-16,000 points was a shockingly expensive price for a free night when I showed them my online statement with the reservation details and transaction history. [The explanation for their shock was that some of this was in markets where Nordic Choice Club is far more frequent provider of point booking customers than US Choice Privileges.]

It seems to me that the points charged for a Choice hotel booking don't really matter that much to the property owner/manager in the way a payment settlement (in whatever form/amount it comes) does.

I have more or less given up on the idea of trying to separate heads from tails when it comes to how Choice Hotels outside of North America are priced in US Choice Privilege point terms.

I guess we can hold out hope that this might become the norm. After all, the economy in Europe is not exactly booming (depending on who you talk to) so maybe they want to keep the occupancy rate up.

Not sure how the compensation works out, though. It would seem that, at these fire-sale points rates, there could be a lot of people taking advantage of the normally 25,000 to 75,000 point properties, which means their compensation to the properties go up while the income from point-earners goes down.

I sure would like to see it happen, though, since I am able to amass a reasonable stash of points just from credit card usage.

Slightly OT - isn't it about time for them to run their (apparently) semi-annual Preferered sale again? I know I scored pretty well the last time they ran it.

Thank you, GUWonder. Are you, in effect, saying that ChoicePrivileges properties don't get compensated always at the same per-point rate (either season to season, or property to property)? When we see the same rate across the board (except Prague :D) it's hard to believe that it's a negotiated rate. In the present case, it can't escape some of them that this is 1/3 or less of the points they receive up until September 15, and that they've been thrown in with a lot of lesser properties -- unless there's more than meets they eye. And I've always thought that we see most U.S.-based chains charging high redemption prices in Europe at least in part as a reflection of the euro to dollar exchange rate.

I agree with both of you that we haven't fathomed this yet. So no need to respond. Mostly musings here.

A malevolent thought just crept in. I wonder if we'll see a point price spike like we haven't seen before, come next spring or summer. If the 8,000 were a product of negotiation, then this could be a quid pro quo to the franchisees.

********************
BTW, I think I may detect another pattern. Of course, properties have the option to participate or not, and they can do so by posting "Not Available". I am seeing this for several that I am interested in through, say, October 1 or 15, for example. (Then again, this would black out several weeks of award availability during what could be one of their heaviest periods -- filled with both paying business and retiree patrons.) More musings...

And, though I probably I shouldn't say so in this venue, this is causing me to loosen my purse strings for some topping off, even to earn more 8,000 pt. nights, even in the present somewhat weak 4x points promotion period. As I said above, "investing". OK, I'm hearing, "Well, listen to the new kid..."

And, though I probably I shouldn't say so in this venue, this is causing me to loosen my purse strings for some topping off, even to earn more 8,000 pt. nights, even in the present somewhat weak 4x points promotion period. As I said above, "investing". OK, I'm hearing, "Well, listen to the new kid..."
And it (plus the presence of promos at other hotel chains) is actually causing me to stay a bit less at Choice. I'm already requalified for Diamond, aand have well over 200k points, nd I used so few points on 6 nights of my upcoming Italy vacation (and there were no Choice properties available anyway for my Argentina vacation after that) that I don't feel a big need to replenish. (And I'm considering Spain for one of vacations next year, and again that's a place with no Choice.)

I'm staying a bit this fall at Choice, but it's less of a priority perhaps because I got so many nights in Italy for so little (and I can only vacation so many weeks a year, and unfortunately not all of that can be in Choice-populated areas).

And, ironically, one of the best "dependable" places to use Choice points is Norway, but if I don't want to fly to OSL and then drive cross-country, the only aliance that'll get me there is Star (because of SAS's dominance in true Scandinavia, ie not counting Finland). But it's Marriott, not Choice, that lets me earn UA miles fast (2000 bonus per stay on 5th stay+) this fall. So I have to stay at another hotel chain to be able to fly to where I can use my Choice points! :)

Thank you, GUWonder. Are you, in effect, saying that ChoicePrivileges properties don't get compensated always at the same per-point rate (either season to season, or property to property)?

That would seem to be the case. I did some googling and came across a great document. https://franchisee.choicehotels.com.au/ChoiceAdvantage/docs/Choice_Privileges.pdf

From pages 12-13:
3. Are hotels allowed to have restricted periods when they do not have to take a
reward night (SRD) reservation?
No. Research indicates that frequent guests do not tolerate blackout periods for
reward nights. Therefore, the reward night (SRD) runs off Best Available Rate
inventory. The reward night program is designed to protect hotels by allowing
reservations from Australasia members no earlier than 30 days in advance in
Australasia (including Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Papua New Guinea and
Fiji), or 60 days prior to arrival in all other locations. U.S. and Canadian members can
make reservations 30 days prior to arrival in the U.S. and Canada, or 60 days prior to
arrival at all other locations. Europe/Middle East/Africa members can make
reservations 30 days in advance in Europe/Middle East, or 60 days prior to arrival at
all other locations. Mexico/Central America/Caribbean members can make
reservations 30 days in advance in Mexico/Central America/Caribbean or 60 days
prior to arrival at all other locations. Elite Gold members can book reward nights 40
days prior to arrival, Elite Platinum members can book reward nights 60 days prior to
arrival and Elite Diamond members can book reward nights 90 days prior to arrival.
4. How was it determined what point level my hotel was assigned?
Hotels are assigned point levels by your Field Support Manager based on various
factors. These levels are reevaluated on a semiannual basis and adjusted
accordingly. Contact your Field Support Manager for more information.
5. How is a hotel paid for a reward night?
a. Hotels in the US: After the night audit process runs, hotels using
choiceADVANTAGE or Profit Manager will see the calculated reimbursement
amount for reward night stays posted to the guest folio. This amount will then
be transferred over to the Choice Hotels Accounts Receivable (A/R) account.
Your hotel will continue to receive your monthly reimbursement as a credit on
your Franchise Bill.
b. For Hotels in the US, Canada, Central America and Europe/Middle East
(excluding Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Iceland, Latvia, Lithuania, Norway and
Sweden).
i. Hotels are automatically paid for reward nights and do not have to
invoice Choice Privileges for reward night stays. In the US, payment
for reward nights will appear as a credit on the hotel's monthly
franchise bill. In Canada, Central America and Europe/Middle East
(excluding Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Iceland, Latvia, Lithuania,
Norway and Sweden), payment is processed through tacsnet.com
(TOPS program).
ii. Reward night and transaction credits are available for viewing on
ChoiceCentral by following the path: Property Info Manager -
Franchise Billing - SRD Payment Report
iii. Hotels are reimbursed for reward nights based on their average daily
rate (ADR) and occupancy for the night of the stay. The day ends
when night audit is run, typically after midnight. If a hotel is 100%
occupied when a reward night is used, reimbursement will be 90% of
the ADR plus tax* for the date of the stay.
*Certain states are excluded from tax reimbursements.
iv. The percent of reimbursement for reward nights when a hotel is not
full in the U.S., Canada, Central America and Europe/Middle East
(excluding Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Iceland, Latvia, Lithuania,
Norway and Sweden) will be based on the cumulative number of
reward nights the hotel has accommodated as a percentage of their
annual available rooms.
Hotels that have sold less than 1.5% of their annual available
rooms as reward nights will receive reimbursement equal to
40% of their ADR (plus tax if applicable).
Hotels that have sold between 1.51% and 2.5% of their
annual available rooms as reward nights will receive
reimbursement equal to 50% of their ADR (plus tax if
applicable).
Hotels that have sold more than 2.5% of their annual
available rooms as reward night rooms will receive
reimbursement equal to 60% of their ADR (plus tax if
applicable).
v. For Suburban Extended Stay Hotel brands, the ADR will be based on
the Tier 1 rate.
vi. If no revenue/occupancy data is available for your hotel on the night
of the reward night, or if the calculated reimbursement is less than
the minimum reimbursement amount, your hotel will receive the
minimum reimbursement amount.
c. The annual available rooms for each hotel will be set on a fiscal year basis
using the number of rooms available on October 1 times 365 days. The
annual available rooms for hotels that come online after October 1 will be set
using the number of rooms available when the hotel comes online times the
number of days left in the fiscal year (October 1 - September 30). The annual
available rooms will be recalculated each year on October 1.
6. How often are hotels paid for reward nights?
Hotels in the US: Credits to your franchise bill will post on or about the 15th of each
month for reward night stays completed during the previous month. Hotels using
choiceADVANTAGE or Profit Manager will see the calculated reimbursement amount
for reward night stays posted to the guest folio after the night audit process runs. This
amount will then be transferred over to the Choice Hotels Accounts Receivable (A/R)
account.
Hotels in Canada, Mexico/Central America/Caribbean, and Europe/Middle East
(excluding Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Iceland, Latvia, Lithuania, Norway and
Sweden), Australasia (including Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Papua New
Guinea and Fiji): Payments will be processed through tacsnet.com (TOPS program)
and checks mailed to hotels on or about the 15
th
of each month for reward night stays
completed during the previous month.


Some other interesting things:

21. Can a hotel allow a reward night to be booked more than 30 days prior to the
date of arrival?
Yes. A hotel can contact the Choice Service Centre and request that they do an
override to allow a reward night reservation to be booked outside of the 30 days prior
policy.
22. What if a reward night is walked?
Choice Privileges members (our best guests) should not be walked under any
circumstances, especially a reward night! However, if walking a Choice Privileges
member is absolutely necessary, the member will receive the walked night free
(under the normal Choice Hotels International walk policy) and still is entitled to a free
room night. Hotels must notify the Choice Service Centre that a guest was walked.
The points will then be added back to the member's account.
25. Do members receive points if they do not pay their bill?
It is the hotel's responsibility to collect for all unpaid nights. Members receive points
for all point eligible stays except guaranteed no-shows for which the hotel does not
get paid. If the hotel eventually collects for the stay, the hotel should call the Choice
Service Centre to add the stay and credit the member points
27. What does the free reward night include?
Room charges (including extra bed and extra person) and tax only. The member is
responsible for incidentals and restaurant charges.
28. Can hotels take 'special' room types out of the reward night (SRD) inventory?
Yes. Specialty suites can be removed from the SRD inventory. These are rooms
defined as being unique to the hotel. Standard suites, handicapped rooms, and
standard room types are not permitted to be removed from the SRD inventory. To
exclude a specialty suite from the SRD inventory, email a list of room types to
exclude to Choice Privileges Operations at
choice_privileges_SSP@choicehotels.com.
31. What happens if a reward night reservation is a no-show?
Since these reservations are guaranteed by Choice Privileges, the hotel will receive
reimbursement for the reward night and the points will be subtracted from the
member's account.
32. Do I have to pay the Choice Privileges fee on guaranteed no-shows?
Yes, but only if you actually collect from the member. If you eventually collect for
guaranteed no-shows, the hotel should call the Choice Service Centre to add the stay
and credit the member points.

The above post is very informative. For those unaware of that information prior to the above post, may I suggest that thinking about that information should help explain a lot of the things we see in terms of hotel point pricing and perhaps even some of the "strange" things that seem to go on with point pricing from time to time.

And, though I probably I shouldn't say so in this venue, this is causing me to loosen my purse strings for some topping off, even to earn more 8,000 pt. nights, even in the present somewhat weak 4x points promotion period. As I said above, "investing". OK, I'm hearing, "Well, listen to the new kid..."

Some people are buying Amtrak points and signing up for the Amtrak credit card in order to transfer Amtrak into Choice points -- at least in some part due to deals like this.

That would seem to be the case. I did some googling and came across a great document...

...or gold mine. (Guess you gotta know where to Google.) Thank you very much. Also, very nice to see that you're still watching this board. :)

The above post is very informative. For those unaware of that information prior to the above post, may I suggest that thinking about that information should help explain a lot of the things we see in terms of hotel point pricing and perhaps even some of the "strange" things that seem to go on with point pricing from time to time.

[...]

Some people are buying Amtrak points and signing up for the Amtrak credit card in order to transfer Amtrak into Choice points -- at least in some part due to deals like this.

1) Agree completely.

2) Love FlyerTalk alchemy. (Remembering CO=>Amtrak=>CP=>WN. And you likely remember many more.) Thank you for this one.

:)

There's some really interesting stuff in that document. I especially like this statement:

Standard suites, handicapped rooms, and standard room types are not permitted to be removed from the SRD inventory.

Maybe that's why there are some really surprising rooms available at some properties.

On the other hand,

To exclude a specialty suite from the SRD inventory, email a list of room types to exclude to Choice Privileges Operations at Choice_privileges_SSP@choicehotels.com.

Who knows how many places are exercising this 'weasel out' clause.

But, all in all, I'm really surprised that this sort of information is publicly available. Good job!

...or gold mine. (Guess you gotta know where to Google.) Thank you very much. Also, very nice to see that you're still watching this board. :)
It's all about advanced Google search strings. I know from experience that these sort of things are generally in pdfs:
"choice privileges" +reimbursement filetype:pdf


. Also, very nice to see that you're still watching this board. :)
Most of my hotel stays are at IHG right now, but I still have Choice Privileges points (and plenty of transferable Amtrak points). :)

Standard suites, handicapped rooms, and standard room types are not permitted to be removed from the SRD inventory.Doesn't this mean that, if they have a standard room, handicapped room, or standard suite (whatever that is) for sale, they must also make it available on points?

I think many of us have found places where they'll sell you a room but won't let you redeem for the room.

If this is the case, and we run into such a situation, to whom would we complain?

Doesn't this mean that, if they have a standard room, handicapped room, or standard suite (whatever that is) for sale, they must also make it available on points?
Yes.

I think many of us have found places where they'll sell you a room but won't let you redeem for the room.
I've never found a hotel selling standard rooms but not offering award nights.

The complaint would be with CP in Grand Junction, I suppose.

I can't find a date on this document, but it seems to date from at least last year, because it talks about the old 30/60/90 day advance bookings, which changed at the begining of this year.

And the question is, what other policiies in this document changed this year? For example, has the language about allowed newspapers changed to put WSJ first? :) (That not only changed this year, it changed after the start of the year.)

I can't find a date on this document, but it seems to date from at least last year, because it talks about the old 30/60/90 day advance bookings, which changed at the begining of this year.
Based on the other things on the site, I would say sometime between June 2009 and October 2010.

Part of the hotel franchise bill that gets settled with properties' accounts is listed in that document as being a payment for Choice Privileges points: 3% or 5% of a set of charges on guest folios are levied (by Choice corporate) on the (individual) hotel's bill to pay for the Choice points credited to guest accounts.

It seems like phantom stays should work too to get credit/points for those who get billed, in line with the reservation's cancellation rules, after no-showing at the hotel:

Do I have to pay the Choice Privileges fee on guaranteed no-shows?
Yes, but only if you actually collect from the member. If you eventually collect for guaranteed no-shows, the hotel should call the Choice Service Centre to add the stay and credit the member points.

Franchise contract and related disclosure documents can be very revealing -- more so the non-redacted versions -- about how these programs work. Some of them are to be found online; and even when a bit dated, they are still insightful about the dynamics involved (since much of the language is spun over). Here's but another example in the public domain: http://www.hamptonfranchise.com/marketing/Disclosures/PDFs/2009FranchiseDisclosureDocument_Hampton.pdf

Some of the best information to be had about how "loyalty" programs operate is with those working the the legal or government compliance services industries servicing the travel industry firms or those in-house in related positions in such companies, be those companies the franchisor or franchisee.

I booked 10 nights in Germany early this summer for September travel (fast approaching!) in Germany and they were all 8,000 points. Wonderful.....

I've stayed at the Clarion Suites Gateway in Melbourne a couple of times on reward bookings. Very sure they block off all Saturdays. This seems to be in violation of the T&Cs

They're evaporating.

I was pleased to be able to book five nights in Italy next month for 8k points each. I even considered canceling our four-night stay at the Hilton Molino Stucky in Venice in favor of the Comfort Hotel Diana, but decided that there probably wasn't a better use for those Hilton points than an AXON stay while I was still a Hilton gold.

As I wrote in another thread months ago, I would have been perfectly willing to spend 25k points a night for these hotels, and consider the 8k point rate to be perhaps the best bargain of the year for me.

They're evaporating.Seems to be.

Essentially all the hotels in Paris are up to 25,000 points/night. but the ones in Rome are still 8K, and most of the ones in London are still 8K, too.

We had the old prices last week, so I guess it won't be long before all of them are back up to something near their traditional levels.

Well, it was great while it lasted . I was able to score a dozen room-nights in Paris at the el cheapo rate, so I'm satisfied.

Seems to be.

Essentially all the hotels in Paris are up to 25,000 points/night. but the ones in Rome are still 8K, and most of the ones in London are still 8K, too.

We had the old prices last week, so I guess it won't be long before all of them are back up to something near their traditional levels.

Well, it was great while it lasted . I was able to score a dozen room-nights in Paris at the el cheapo rate, so I'm satisfied.

Well, I definitly don't understand this program. I thought reward prices was decided for a specific period for each hotel and doesn't change like stocks :confused:
8K for every hotel in Paris is really cheap but 25k for every one is a bit too much !

BigLar had a thread that tracked a previous round of this back in the spring:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/choice-privileges/1222364-rome-italy-hotels.html

1) So the Europe 8,000s have happened before.

2) So they aren't "mistake fares".

3) They have disappeared without warning before, selectively.

4) It also offered some sage (by sages familiar with this pattern, or lack of a pattern) advice. Such as reminders that once the reservation is confirmed and your points are pulled, you hold the trump. But a copy of the reservation in hand in the event is an even better trump.

OT/ Now, hotels in Japan seems to be at 8000. Is it a good deal ? /OT

Well, I definitly don't understand this program. Welcome to Choice Privileges! :)
I thought reward prices was decided for a specific period for each hotel and doesn't change like stocks :confused:Pretty much evey other hotel program works like that - they change the redemption rates (usually annually or some relatively infrequent period like that) and when they say category X for the coming year, or Y,000 points for the summer, you can rely on it.

Choice has listed these properties as being 8000 points/night from Sept. 16 through Nov. 30 (IIRC). On or about Sept. 17, this 'promise' went out the window, and they're now 25,000 points/night.

Couple this with the restricted booking window (as low as 30 days in some cases) and one has a really poor idea of what your hard-earned points are worth. Sort of takes away the glamour of cleverly working some promotion or other and finding out that, effectively, two-thirds of your stash has evaporated.

They used to publish a catalog which listed every property they had world wide, along with a range for paid stays as well as reward levels. At least with that, you could do some planning. Apparently, no more.

8K for every hotel in Paris is really cheap but 25k for every one is a bit too much !Take a look at the ones in (I think) New Zealand - 75K/night! I can't imagine anyone in their right mind shelling out that many points for a "free" night, unless thay had unlimited points at their disposal.

Bottom line - if you're looking for rewards, Choice may be useful, and you may score some deals, but forget about them looking on you as a valued customer any more. They sure know how to do a number on customer goodwill.

So if I have a reservation for a hotel in london that normally costs 130+ GBP per night, should I be at all worried I won't have actually have room when I show up paying 8000/pts per night for a week?

or just be worried that my room is nearest to the dumpster.

Interestingly enough, a quick check on the hotels in the areas I was interested it (London, southern France, Rome) shows that for these locations they are raising the rates come Dec 1, but are maintaining the 8000 point level until then.

If they did that consistently I would have no problem. That would appear to be what they were promising, and we pretty much expect the rate change on a seasonal basis. It's the changing of the rules in mid stream that's sticking in my craw.

So if I have a reservation for a hotel in london that normally costs 130+ GBP per night, should I be at all worried I won't have actually have room when I show up paying 8000/pts per night for a week?

or just be worried that my room is nearest to the dumpster.Print out your reservation and bring it with you. The details (including the points you paid) are all listed on there. There should be no problem.

As far as the room location ... well, London (especially) is loaded with hotels with former broom closets now listed as 'singles' :) If you don't like your room, immediately go to the front desk and ask for another one. Unless the place is really crammed, or management has a serious attitude problem with reward stays, they should accomodate you. Unless you're incredibly lucky you probably won't get the presidential suite, but any hotel should be willing to bend a little for their customers.

If they really give you a hard time ('losing' your reservation, stuffing you under the stairs, etc.) please report back. Unfortunately, Choice Privileges usually takes the attitude that the properties are franchises and there's little they can do (at least, that sort of stuff has been reported here from time to time), but my experience has been fairly positive so far.

Does anyone have a sense as to how long the 8000 point deals will last in Europe? I recall the Italian hotels being "on sale" for a long time last spring.

I have a family trip to Europe this winter and this would greatly assist my efforts to find affordable lodging. As a plat, I guess I have to watch the calendar for my 75 day countdown. In the meantime, I won't book any non-refundable alternative accomodations. I guess they won't just comp me Diamond to get a 100 day window, right? :)

I think we can only guess. Lights are going out at random, without warning. For example, they did one at a time on the Riviera. As the cancellation provisions are usually pretty nice, I'd put a foot in the door ASAP, and then remember to peel off in time. ...But you knew this. :)

I have a family trip to Europe this winter and this would greatly assist my efforts to find affordable lodging. You and me both, but I was able to get my bookings in (for October) before the points went haywire.

I would suspect they're all pretty much gone by now (except for certain locations).I think we can only guess. Lights are going out at random, without warning. Very true.

When I was sweating out my booking window, I used to check every day to see if they were still available, and I pounced as soon as I could.

Best bet is, as you said, look and jump on a res if it's at all reasonable. I wouldn't get too hung up on 8000 being a magic number, though. Depending on when and where you want to go, and how big your stash is, 10,000 or even 12,000 points/night can be a great deal.

Best bet is, as you said, look and jump on a res if it's at all reasonable. I wouldn't get too hung up on 8000 being a magic number, though. Depending on when and where you want to go, and how big your stash is, 10,000 or even 12,000 points/night can be a great deal.

Agreed. At these redemption rates, if there's a halfway decent Choice hotel available in the European city you're headed to, there's rarely any alternative that make sense.

I don't really sweat the domestic booking window, but I tend to book my int'l leisure tickets well in advance. This means I find myself trying to figure out the earliest booking day pretty often. So far so good, but the current offer is really tantalizing -- and therefore frustrating when your travel dates are outside "the window."

BTW, I often find myself waiting for the possible Preferred hotel winter sale from Choice, but at these low award rates, I don't think I could get enough value out of a better Preferred hotel.

This means I find myself trying to figure out the earliest booking day pretty often. Yeah, I'm not good at arithmetic with dates either. :)

Here's what I do:

*Open up a workbook in Excel.
*In a cell, say A1, type in the date you want to book (e.g, "11/15/2011").
*In another cell, say A2, type in "=a1-60" and it will print out the date 60 days before the date in A1.

Works with positive or negative dates, so you can put in today's date and find out when your window opens, etc.

Probably old hat to many folks, but useful just the same.

December 1 seems to be a turning point when the ones I'm watching scramble again -- some of the 8,000s going to 10,000, and some of the ones that have gone up to 25,000 going down. Important word: "...some..." Then each hotel holds the same point rate into January.

EDIT: Whoops, BigLar says this @48.

I was pleased to be able to book five nights in Italy next month for 8k points each. I even considered canceling our four-night stay at the Hilton Molino Stucky in Venice in favor of the Comfort Hotel Diana, but decided that there probably wasn't a better use for those Hilton points than an AXON stay while I was still a Hilton gold.
Well, for one thing, I'm sure you showers and breakfasts were nicer. :)

I recently came back from an 8-night trip in Italy that started with 4 nights at Comfort Hotel Diana. I'm 5' 11" and the shower head was hitting my shoulder! I had to kneel in the shower to be able to shampoo my hair (at least if I wanted to face away from the shower head while doing that).

And the breakfast was ok, but not great. It was no a buffet, but rather they brought out to each guest two baskets, plus a single glass of "orange juice" (though it tasted like it was 50% lemonade or something!). The baskets had 1 fruited yogurt cup, several breakfast breads, and an endless assortment of spreadables. That's it. It got a bit boring for 4 days. The internet worked fine though, and was free without limits (as many 24-hour password cards as I needed). Bottled water in the minibar was just 1 Euro, which was the low end of the going rate in neighborhood stores! There was a city tax of 3 Euro per day they said I had to pay, that wasn't included in the 8000 points. At least they told me about this at check-in. They griped a bit that I wanted to put it (and the minibar bill) on a credit card, but accepted that. (No, I did not use my Choice card, I used a Priority Club card for the 0% forex!) The one other weird thing about the hotel was that they wanted you to leave the room card at the front desk every time you went out.

But apart from these few oddities it was nice. And the location (a couple minutes walk from San Marco square, five brisk minutes walk from Rialto bridge) was great. Still, given the oddities, it was fine for 8000 points/night, but I'm not sure how happy I'd have been at $200++/night (or 25000 points/night!).

At the end of my stay I stayed for 2 nights at Quality Hotel Atlantic in Milan (a few minutes walk from the central train station). There the issues were quite different. Only one free electrical outlet anywhere in the room (except for the bathroom), and it was switched by the main light socket. I left the DO NOT DISTURB sign on, but housekeeping came in anyway and turned off power to my laptop. Argh!!! And they only dole out one 2 hour (cumulative) password card per day, if you want more, it's 30 Euros for a 24 hour card (and they have nothing between 2 hour and 24 hour). The free breakfast was a nice buffet though, and no need to keep turning the key in. And the shower was fine. And there were no charges at all, just the 8K points/night, nothing more. Still, the limited free internet, the lack of outlets, and the ignoring of DO NOT DISTURB left me soured on this hotel, to the point where I don't know if I'd consider it again for a multi-night stay (only for 1-night stays when arriving into or leaving out of MXP -- the airport buses leave every 15 minutes from right next to the central train station, thus also just a few minutes walk from this hotel).

(The middle 2 nights of my stay were in an area without chain hotels at all, in the Dolomites, in an indie hotel which was by far the nicest of the 3 hotels that I stayed in on this trip. But I was only able to afford that because it was niot Venice and not central Milan!)

...The one other weird thing about the hotel was that they wanted you to leave the room card at the front desk every time you went out...

VERY nice trip report. Thank you! The only reason I'm keying on this one passage is that it reminds me of the old European custom of leaving your key (which usually was attached to something that was like a medieval weapon - what were those called? - or deep sea fishing weight) at the front desk. Perhaps your hosts are still in that mindset... :D Seriously, I would want to have a safe for my laptop.

Thanks again for this. ^

VERY nice trip report. Thank you! The only reason I'm keying on this one passage is that it reminds me of the old European custom of leaving your key (which usually was attached to something that was like a medieval weapon - what were those called? - or deep sea fishing weight) at the front desk. Perhaps your hosts are still in that mindset... :D Seriously, I would want to have a safe for my laptop.

Thanks again for this. ^
Now that you mention that, I realize I forgot to explain: The key at Comfort Hotel Diana (in Venice), where they asked for the key every time I left, was a key card with a chip (instead of a swipe), that looked a bit like a "chip & pin" credit card. The key at Quality Hotel Atlantic (in Milan), where they didn't ask for my key except upon checkout, was a traditional metal insert-and-turn key, and had a heavy cylindrical weight attached to it.

At Comfort Hotel Diana, one day it was raining until mid-afternoon, and I stayed in the room (without "Do Not Disturb" posted) until mid-afternoon. (I had lost my umbrella while out the previous day.) I had not heard a peep from housekeeping up till then, so I figured maybe they'd just skip me that day? But no, when I got back in the evening my room was made up. So I figure maybe at that hotel they wait until the key has been left at the front desk before having housekeeping clean your room? (On other days when I left right after breakfast and then came back during midday, my room was made up already at midday.)


Also regarding the keys:

At Comfort Hotel Diana, the key had to be inserted (with the chip facing away from you and down) into a "lights enabler" when you entered the room. Except the outlet on the desk remained powered on when you left the room.

At Quality Hotel Atlantic, there was no key needed to enable the lights, but as already mentioned, the light controlled both the desk outlets, and hence the place where I had to plug in my laptop, and I guess housekeeping is instructed to turn the lights off when they leave (argh!).

Yeah, I'm not good at arithmetic with dates either. :)

Here's what I do:

*Open up a workbook in Excel.
*In a cell, say A1, type in the date you want to book (e.g, "11/15/2011").
*In another cell, say A2, type in "=a1-60" and it will print out the date 60 days before the date in A1.

Works with positive or negative dates, so you can put in today's date and find out when your window opens, etc.

Probably old hat to many folks, but useful just the same.

That's too hard for me: I google "how many days until" and find a website to tell me. But be careful: I once found one that tried to load an advertising virus on my computer.

Thanks again, sdsearch. Were there laptop-size safes?

(And I've "used up" more keys for those power-enabling systems. When I find that it's the case with a room, I automatically ask for another key the next time I go out. Whether I've left it there or not. Because I do forget. Like with umbrellas...)

Thanks again, sdsearch. Were there laptop-size safes?

(And I've "used up" more keys for those power-enabling systems. When I find that it's the case with a room, I automatically ask for another key the next time I go out. Whether I've left it there or not. Because I do forget. Like with umbrellas...)

Just about any old credit card size elite status frequent flyer card can be used to enable the room power in most power-enabling systems in hotel rooms. There are some exceptions, but odds have been that I no longer need a second key to enable the power in the rooms.

Just about any old credit card size elite status frequent flyer card can be used to enable the room power in most power-enabling systems in hotel rooms. There are some exceptions, but odds have been that I no longer need a second key to enable the power in the rooms.

And, in my case, pray that they'll send it along to me..... :o

Just about any old credit card size elite status frequent flyer card can be used to enable the room power in most power-enabling systems in hotel rooms. There are some exceptions, but odds have been that I no longer need a second key to enable the power in the rooms.
As can, come to think of it, a "forgot to return" hotel key card from another hotel! :)

But again, at the Comfort Hotel Diana, that trick didn't work. It required their chip-based room card, and in fact only worked when that card was inserted with the chip side facing the wall.

Thanks again, sdsearch. Were there laptop-size safes?
I'm sorry, I don't remember clearly if there were or not. With my laptop pretty obviously old and worn (it was close to top of the line when I bought it, but I bought it right after Windows XP came out, and how long ago was that? :) ), and these places seeming reasonably safe, I wasn't worried enough to bother checking out whether there were safes that it would fit into.

Just booked four nights at the Comfort Inn Hyde Park in London for 12/15 through 12/19 for 8000 points per night. Room was advertised at 150 GBP per night.

There was only one other property around London that was available for 8000 as many other hotels have raised their award cost to 12,000 to 20,000 points. I love being able to book a queen-sized bedroom that would have cost $1000 for four nights for 32,000 points. Much better than booking two nights in Podunk for 16K per night for a room probably selling for $80.

Just booked four nights at the Comfort Inn Hyde Park in London for 12/15 through 12/19 for 8000 points per night. Room was advertised at 150 GBP per night.

There was only one other property around London that was available for 8000 as many other hotels have raised their award cost to 12,000 to 20,000 points. I love being able to book a queen-sized bedroom that would have cost $1000 for four nights for 32,000 points. Much better than booking two nights in Podunk for 16K per night for a room probably selling for $80.

The location is good, the rooms and bathrooms seem pretty recently renovated, toss in a few bottles of water when I redeem points there, and the staff has been pretty good to me. The rooms are tiny, however, and the included breakfast is more or less not worth it to get up. Still, I wouldn't hesitate to use points there.

The location is good, the rooms and bathrooms seem pretty recently renovated, toss in a few bottles of water when I redeem points there, and the staff has been pretty good to me. The rooms are tiny, however, and the included breakfast is more or less not worth it to get up. Still, I wouldn't hesitate to use points there.

Yep. The pictures on the hotel's website are pretty creatively taken so as to direct your attention away from the tiny rooms, but I had checked Tripadvisor and reviews on booking.com. The comments on those two sites mirrored yours.

This is a solo trip. I've stayed in university accommodations in Dublin and St. Andrews where the rooms are pretty small, so if they're no smaller than that, I'll be happy. As you say, the location is good, especially because I'll do some minor Christmas shopping, and Harrod's is on the other side of Hyde Park.

FT really helped me on this one as I became aware of the potential value of Choice points through threads here about the Discover America promo. Ironic that my first redemption will be for a foreign property!

FT really helped me on this one as I became aware of the potential value of Choice points through threads here about the Discover America promo. Ironic that my first redemption will be for a foreign property!

If you're not VERY fussy, acquiring Choice points through Discover America is extremely useful -- to use both in the USA and abroad. I now stay in more Choice hotels than any other brand, and I almost never "pay" for them. The value tends to be very good (alas, the hotels tend to be very repetitive, especially the breakfasts). These 8000 points stays in Europe are tremendous value. But most of my points get used in the USA, usually at airport hotels and in smaller cities and towns.

If you're not VERY fussy, acquiring Choice points through Discover America is extremely useful...

Indeeeed. Thank you very much, iahphx. Discover America has totally eluded me. Did a FT search and found the (your) big threads. Saw several ways to stay for, in effect, less than $30 per night at several of the hotels I use. And, not least, now that even "free" stays count toward status (such as it is), there's no penalty there, either. The only issue remaining is the float, but that's something we often eat in favor of Flyertalk-type deals. And you and other sages seem to be quite satisfied, acknowledging that in the discussions. [Ear now on rail.] :)

*******************
And, as you say, when one uses them on these 8,000 point rates...:eek: For me, this is the find/deal of the week, or month, or more.

Last: We can even talk about it without danger of being flamed for "divulging" a deal.

And you and other sages seem to be quite satisfied, acknowledging that in the discussions.

The folks who are satisfied by the Discover America Choice deal are folks who see value in a decent motel at an inexpensive price. If you're someone who only redeems airline miles for first class int'l travel, you probably won't be satisfied by Choice. The only time I've run into any "luxuries" at a Choice hotel was in Stockholm. Otherwise, Choice's properties are "middle class," at best.

Personally, I like a fancy hotel as much as the next guy but, in most situations, I'm not willing to pay for them (airport hotel for the night) or they don't exist where I'm travelling to (small town).

If you're someone who only redeems airline miles for first class int'l travel, you probably won't be satisfied by Choice.
On the other hand, even if you're someone who never redeems airliines miles for coach int'l travel, you may be satisfied by Choice. While true first class (class above business class) on an international flight may be luxury compared to business class, for a tall person economy class on an 8+ hour flight can be torture, in a way that a cheap Choice US suburban property can't compare.

When it's for longhaul int'l travel, I do redeem only into business class (though maybe in the future I will try Premium Economy sometime on an airline that has such a cabin?), but when it comes to hotels, since I "fit" in the beds of even cheap suburban hotels, I'm less picky.

And, in fact, one of the things I hate is being nickel-and-dimed. Well, in the ailrine world, it's in economy class that you're nickel-and-dimed, and in business class and above very rarely so. But in the hotel world, it's in the higher end hotels that you're nickel-and-dimed, and in budget and lower-midscale hotels very rarely so.

So I'm not sure how far this airline analogy can be carried...

So I'm not sure how far this airline analogy can be carried...

Yup, different strokes for different folks. I guess we could say that, in general, Choice properties are not a good fit for those accustomed to only "4 star or above" travel experiences. If you don't mind "stooping" to 3-star, Choice can be a good fit for you.

And I agree with you about not being nickeled and dimed at Choice. While ridiculously repetitive, getting a free breakfast almost every time is certainly worth something, especially for family travel. And speaking of families, Choice Rewards is MORE accomodating to families than any frequent stay program. I can routinely book a room for 5 people (often a suite) for no additional charge.

Using Choice points for Choice family hotels near their best is certainly for middle-brow sensibilities at most -- and that is just fine by me. No less so because there are places visited by me where there are no hotels that are any better than a Choice family hotel or where the price difference for anything better than a Choice family hotel is so large that I am not going to waste someone else's money on it given how little return there would be.

The Choice program indeed is one of the more family friendly programs around -- indeed it is the most reliable program for me to get rooms in Europe using points that can accommodate 4 or even 5 people for no additional charge.

On the other hand, even if you're someone who never redeems airliines miles for coach int'l travel, you may be satisfied by Choice. While true first class (class above business class) on an international flight may be luxury compared to business class, for a tall person economy class on an 8+ hour flight can be torture, in a way that a cheap Choice US suburban property can't compare.

When it's for longhaul int'l travel, I do redeem only into business class (though maybe in the future I will try Premium Economy sometime on an airline that has such a cabin?), but when it comes to hotels, since I "fit" in the beds of even cheap suburban hotels, I'm less picky.

And, in fact, one of the things I hate is being nickel-and-dimed. Well, in the ailrine world, it's in economy class that you're nickel-and-dimed, and in business class and above very rarely so. But in the hotel world, it's in the higher end hotels that you're nickel-and-dimed, and in budget and lower-midscale hotels very rarely so.

So I'm not sure how far this airline analogy can be carried...

My thoughts exactly. I can handle coach for any trip of three hours or less, but after an overnight to Dublin and a red eye from SFO to JFK last year. I've decided long-haul overnight trips now require me to get a lie-flat seat. I can do premium economy on a day flight and be happy. In fact, that's the configuration I'll use for my December trip to London: BA business on the trip to London, premium economy on the way back.

I've recently stayed at a Sheraton and a Quality Inn in Virginia Beach. I'm a member of both loyalty programs. I paid $50 more per night at the Sheraton and then had to pay a lot for breakfast. I didn't pay for wi-fi access at the Quality while the Sheraton only provided access at an additional charge. Both hotels are on the oceanfront, however, and although the Sheraton probably is a nicer hotel, the difference is minimal. Both hotels could use renovation. I am one of those people who views a hotel room as a place to keep my belongings while I'm out enjoying where I've gone and a place to rest at night. Safety, convenience, cleanliness, and a good bed are my needs. Many Choice properties meet those needs.

One nickel and dime story. Years ago, when the Ritz-Carlton at Pentagon City opened, Amex sent me a certificate for a room at a significant discount. I used it on a weekend for a suite to do Christmas shopping with my sisters. There were phones in every room, including the two bathrooms. Being silly, we made a number of local calls from the bathrooms--each of which we discovered at checkout had cost 75 cents.

I said, never again.

I am one of those people who views a hotel room as a place to keep my belongings while I'm out enjoying where I've gone and a place to rest at night. Safety, convenience, cleanliness, and a good bed are my needs. Many Choice properties meet those needs.

Yup, that's the definition of a flyertalker who will be happy with Choice!

Yup, that's the definition of a flyertalker who will be happy with Choice!

I can be happy at the higher end, too, but since it's my dollars paying for the room, I tend to pick my spots. I also do a lot of solo travel. I'd probably be a lot pickier depending on my companion!

I've decided long-haul overnight trips now require me to get a lie-flat seat. I can do premium economy on a day flight and be happy. In fact, that's the configuration I'll use for my December trip to London: BA business on the trip to London, premium economy on the way back.I did better than that.

Our last trip was First out (overnight flight) and regular economy back. I had made sure the return flight was a 767, so there was much less crowding and I actually wound up in a center row of three that had only me in it.

Nothing wrong with coach in the right plane and with the right number of pax.

I had made sure the return flight was a 767, so there was much less crowding and I actually wound up in a center row of three that had only me in it.

Nothing wrong with coach in the right plane and with the right number of pax.
Well, that assumes you can know the final number of pax at the time of booking. These days, with airlines cutting back flights, flights are more filled than ever, and finding yourself in a center row of three with only you in it is getting harder and harder. (Unless perhaps you know the right obscure airline that can't sell seats in economy?)

At any rate, the problem with most coach seats for me is what they do to my knees when the person in front of me reclines. So I care more about not having someone in front of me (or far away, as in an exit row or "economy plus" seat, or not there at all, as in a bulkhead seat), more than not having someone next to me. Now, if I know the plane has "articulated" seats in coach, that may not be an issue (with articulated seats, it's your own recline that affects your knees, not the recline of the person in front of you).

I agree that if you can find the right coach seat, almost any flight that does not require sleep is perfectly fine. But, I also agree with sdsearch that getting that seat is totally a crapshoot.

I laugh a little bit when I read some of the bloggers who complain that they didn't get warm nuts when seated in first class or that the IFE was poor (really, when for no more than $700, you can buy all the tech that will exceed any FC AVOD system out there and use it on more than just your current flight which would have cost the general public thousands more than a seat in coach?) or that the champagne they drank wasn't presented properly.

I'm not large. I'm 5 feet, 9 inches tall and not particularly wide-bodied (although I do have a few extra pounds since I graduated from college at 135). The few extra inches provided in a premium economy section, which is, by the way, pretty much what I used to get in economy when I started flying seriously in the mid-1980s, is all I need to make a daylight flight comfortable.

My days in coach on flights over about three hours and on overnight flights, however, are over. My days in Choice hotels are not.

Just booked four nights at the Comfort Inn Hyde Park in London for 12/15 through 12/19 for 8000 points per night. Room was advertised at 150 GBP per night.

There was only one other property around London that was available for 8000 as many other hotels have raised their award cost to 12,000 to 20,000 points. I love being able to book a queen-sized bedroom that would have cost $1000 for four nights for 32,000 points. Much better than booking two nights in Podunk for 16K per night for a room probably selling for $80.

I am staying at the same property a month later. 3 queen sized beds, hoooray

I am staying at the same property a month later. 3 queen sized beds, hoooray

I didn't see such a room at that property. The biggest I have been able to get has been 2 queen beds + 1 single bed. 5 people in that room would be a very tight fit, even when only having carry-on luggage for a night or two.

With winter and a longer stay, I wouldn't do it, at least not with a plan to have more than a person a bed, if even that. :D

firewind said: "Discover America has totally eluded me. Did a FT search and found the (your) big threads. Saw several ways to stay for, in effect, less than $30 per night at several of the hotels I use. "

I am not familiar with Discover America, and did a search on FT and through google and found nothing informative. Is this a website, a booking engine or? Can you give me a link?
Thanks.

Nancy

firewind said: "Discover America has totally eluded me. Did a FT search and found the (your) big threads. Saw several ways to stay for, in effect, less than $30 per night at several of the hotels I use. "

I am not familiar with Discover America, and did a search on FT and through google and found nothing informative. Is this a website, a booking engine or? Can you give me a link?
Thanks.

Nancy

Discover America Daily Getaways is a sale that has occurred the last two springs. By googling "Discover America Choice Hotels," I found this article (http://travel.usatoday.com/alliance/flights/boardingarea/post/2011/04/Loyalty-Traveler---Buy-Choice-Privileges-points-at-DiscoverAmericacom-today/165537/1) that summarizes this year's sale of Choice Privileges points.

firewind said: "Discover America has totally eluded me. Did a FT search and found the (your) big threads. Saw several ways to stay for, in effect, less than $30 per night at several of the hotels I use. "

I am not familiar with Discover America, and did a search on FT and through google and found nothing informative. Is this a website, a booking engine or? Can you give me a link?
Thanks.

Nancy

Well, there are this and this in FlyerTalk...

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/search.php?searchid=11937920

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hotel-deals/1197363-discover-america-2011-hotel-deal-promos.html

firewind:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/searc...rchid=11937920

I cannot find anything with your above link.

I did find the 2nd link/thread earlier but do not understand the Discover America. Suppose it is something one must follow.
Thanks.

Nancy

Sorry, but it was the landing page when I did a "titles only" FlyerTalk forums search on key words "Discover America". I can only suggest that you search again. This is the best I can do to help. Good luck. :) (EDIT: But to assuage your curiosity more directly, it's a separate company and channel that teams up with various travel industry companies to offer sales -- episodically. So, as I suggested above, "ear to rail".)

But as a general observation here, I can't imagine them doing this again. All things considered, it was a stunning deal. But we could be blessed...

The perfectly reasonable Comfort Inn Hyde Park in London is still at 8000 points for winter travel -- and you can even get a family room (up to 6 people) for that price.

If you're funding that through Discover America points, that's a $270 hotel room for $30. :)

That said, most of the London hotels are back to more normal redemption levels -- albeit reasonable levels, like 16000 points.

What's the scene elsewhere in Europe? I have some IHG BRG free rooms coming up, so I haven't looked too hard for Choice bargains.

Just as an update ...

I was idly looking at other properties in Europe (France in particular) and when you get away from the obviously expensive places (London, Paris, etc.) there seems to be still a lot of properties available at the 8-10,000 point range. Some of them even claim that the given rate is available for all of 2012 (or at least as far as they are willing to project).

If you're not stuck on staying at 'destination' hotels, one could easily do, say, a road trip around Europe and have decent places to stay without depleting your stash (or your wallet) all that much.

Remember, the Choice properties in Europe bear little resemblance to the Quality/Comfort/Sleep etc. places in the US. I.e., they're usually nicer. :)

BigLar, Ace Scout ^

Remember, the Choice properties in Europe bear little resemblance to the Quality/Comfort/Sleep etc. places in the US. I.e., they're usually nicer. :)

I don't know about that -- it depends on where. Like in Scandinavia, MUCH nicer!

But when I was in the south of France earlier this year, I looked to see if I could use my Choice points (as everyone knows, it's entirely "random" where in the world there are Choice hotels!). They did have properties, but they were mostly low-end, next-to-the-highway motels. Cheap -- both in dollar terms and points -- but no place you'd want to stay unless you had a car and were just crashing for the night and leaving.

Other than Scandinavia, I've generally found the Choice city hotels to be decent but not particularly great 3-star properties. Rarely any place I'd WANT to stay, but often an incredible deal on points (Paris, Rome, Luzerne, etc.).

So you really don't know until you look. :)

I don't entirely agree re properties all along the Mediterranean being low-brow - I studied them and was all set up to be at a couple of them this fall - but I don't want to get into the specifics here because I hope Choice gives us another round in the spring when I can use the lessons learned this fall. And by then Ace Scout might even have spotted some new ones. :)

And by then Ace Scout might even have spotted some new ones. :)When you're unemployed, you find you have a bit of time on your hands. :) But now that I'm back in the work force (as of a month or so ago), it will be slower.I don't entirely agree re properties all along the Mediterranean being low-brow ...Me neither.

When we were in Paris at the Clarion in October, I picked up their European guide for 2011 - haven't seen one of them in a long time. Anyhow, they list 14 or 15 properties along the south coast of France, from Menton to Perpignan. Now we haven't seen them all - in fact, most of our time there was concentrated in the area from Nice to Menton, in which there are a half-dozen or so Choice properties.

The real question is, exactly what do you want in a hotel when you are vacationing? We've done the 'destination' hotel route in London, Paris, Amsterdam, Budapest, etc., and the properties were very nice. Lounge access was critical, because otherwise, you're just another guest in just another room. And paying a lot for the 'honor'.

On the other hand, in a lot of areas, you tend to be out and about most of the day, and all you really want is a nice clean safe place to sleep, with maybe a bar and a small restaurant in the hotel (or close by). For this type of stay, Choice (and the properties along the Med) will suit admirably.

I'm not going to name names, either, because I'm planning to return, and there are a couple of places in that area where I wouldn't mind spending a few days, and I'd like there to be award availability when I do. ;)

If you have a good sized chunk of Choice points, no matter where you want to stay, cruise their website and cross-reference everything with Tripadvisor, and you can't go too far wrong.

Congrats!

And +1.

To exclude a specialty suite from the SRD inventory, email a list of room types to exclude to Choice Privileges Operations at Choice_privileges_SSP@choicehotels.com.

Who knows how many places are exercising this 'weasel out' clause.

Doesn't this mean that, if they have a standard room, handicapped room, or standard suite (whatever that is) for sale, they must also make it available on points?

I think many of us have found places where they'll sell you a room but won't let you redeem for the room.

I've never found a hotel selling standard rooms but not offering award nights..Maybe it's the "standard room" thing.

Making dummy bookings all over Europe, I find almost all the properties I check have 'executive', or 'superior' rooms and, yes, suites available for sale, but they are not showing up as available for points.

Perhaps they've all got a special dispensation.;)

Ace Scout does some more brush-crashing on our behalf, thank you very much... ^

This policy seems to have spread around the industry, at least Hyatt and Hilton, with which I am more familiar. Hyatt is explicit about it. A "standard room" has to be available for points. That said, then definitions provide ongoing fodder for Flyertalk discussions. Bummer of a policy, but it is a nice scrap for our side of the counter when it's made explicit and definitions are consistent. Sadly, we see that they're less consistent the more loosely affiliated the affiliates are -- e.g., Choice Hotels. Or, better said, we in FlyerTalk see this, thanks to brush-crashers and shared knowledge. Hopefully, this might gradually make a difference. Again, thank you very much.

Ace Scout does some more brush-crashing on our behalf, thank you very much... ^You (or anybody) can do it on your own, and here's the quick way to check:

1. Log into you account, so they know you're a CP member and have some points.

2. Pick a date within your award booking window.

3. Search for hotels in the area you're interested in using the Best Available Rate criterion (default)

4. Pick one ("Check Rates").

5. You will be given the entire available inventory with prices.

6. Switch from Best Available Rate to Use Choice Privileges Points and click on Update Rates.

The list they present shows the rooms they are making available for award stays, and it seems that at least part of their inventory is being held back.

If the room(s) are something special maybe they've got a waiver from CP, or maybe they're just being stingy. As others have posted, Choice seems to have very little leverage over the operations of the individual franchisee.

It's quite possible they might not understand how the game works - they get reimbursed from Choice for the room, so it shouldn't matter all that much whether the guest is paying or staying on points, unless the reimbursement is way out of line with what they can sell the room for, and they have a good chance of actually getting that rate. Other than that, one of the prices they pay for the value of being in an internationally advertised chain is that every now and then you might have to swallow a smaller payback that you'd like.

It's also possible there might be a cultural thing involved here. As another poster said, the staff seemed pretty huffy about giving away "free" rooms. In that particular country, the norm may be 'nothing for free ever' and/or 'screw the customer every chance you get, because they're surely trying to screw you'.