Finnair Plus - Babys in J

Can anyone explain to me why AY is placing babys in J class always in in row number one (on A330/A340) and not in the smaller rear cabin? Specaily because they placing babys flying in Y always direct behind the small rear cabin, so as a business passenger you have more or less no option to escape, even if the cabin layout is perfect to seperate passengers flying with infants from those who want to catch some sleep.

Can anyone explain to me why AY is placing babys in J class always in in row number one (on A330/A340) and not in the smaller rear cabin? Specaily because they placing babys flying in Y always direct behind the small rear cabin, so as a business passenger you have more or less no option to escape, even if the cabin layout is perfect to seperate passengers flying with infants from those who want to catch some sleep.

I can, because I just happened to research this on a previous flight. :)

At least the new A330 full-flat seats have special airbagged seat belts, that are not compatible with regular seat-belt extenders required with baby safety/booster seats. However, row 1 (at least the middle seats?) has regular seat belts that can accommodate the extenders Finnair uses. Why Finnair doesn't have extenders compatible with the airbag belts (that do disable the airbag when used), I don't know.

This is also why (sometimes?) a heavy passenger requiring seat-belt extender in business have to sit in row 1 at least for take-off and landing.

I can, because I just happened to research this on a previous flight. :)

At least the new A330 full-flat seats have special airbagged seat belts, that are not compatible with regular seat-belt extenders required with baby safety/booster seats. However, row 1 (at least the middle seats?) has regular seat belts that can accommodate the extenders Finnair uses. Why Finnair doesn't have extenders compatible with the airbag belts (that do disable the airbag when used), I don't know.

This is also why (sometimes?) a heavy passenger requiring seat-belt extender in business have to sit in row 1 at least for take-off and landing.

Airbag belts, that sounds pretty high-tech. I never realized any difference with the seatbelts on any of A330/A340 configurations, flying in row one as well as in a few other rows.

So why they dont install the right seatbelts in the bulkhead row in the rear cabin?

Airbag belts, that sounds pretty high-tech. I never realized any difference with the seatbelts on any of A330/A340 configurations, flying in row one as well as in a few other rows.

So why they dont install the right seatbelts in the bulkhead row in the rear cabin?

Very good question. That would make sense, wouldn't it? To be honest, I haven't checked in the rear if they have done so. All I know I did check the difference between row 1 and rest of the front cabin on an AY A330. Also the at least middle seats in row 1 have some baby seat info stickers on the wall in front of them, so clearly Finnair has planned to seat babies there, not just a coincidence.

The seat belt airbag is the large bulge on the other side of the seat belt. I thought it was some kind of a cushion but closer inspection proved it is actually some sort of an airbag, that needs to be disabled when used with a baby seat (and for some reason Finnair doesn't seem to have the required special extenders for those seats, or didn't have on flights where I've noticed such use).

That's very interesting to read. I would have otherwise thought it was largely a function of bassinet placement limitations on board.

Is this kind of issue in business class with seat belt extenders also applicable to the economy cabin on the same planes? Different kinds of seatbelt, IIRC, but I never looked too closely. Hopefully it won't be such that some young infant is denied travel or downgraded with a parent/guardian because of there being "too many" lap-child infants showing up for a flight.

Sure there are limitations for bassinets, but on AY they are in both of the bulkhead rows (in the front and in the rear cabin), and I just wonder why AY reserves the first row for their very loyal customers AND for infants - if they just can place infants in the rear. Because the there is only one noisy area in the aircraft. Because the infants in Y are also placed in that area.

It makes no sense to me.

To save some valuable time w/o the need to worry about such things just invest in a pair of excellent noise cancelling headphones and you're done.

Babies have all the rights to fly in J, same as you or any business man out there. Also, we need to remember that on AY the rear J cabin is often Y service - only on high J load flights it's real business back there.

To save some valuable time w/o the need to worry about such things just invest in a pair of excellent noise cancelling headphones and you're done.

Babies have all the rights to fly in J, same as you or any business man out there. Also, we need to remember that on AY the rear J cabin is often Y service - only on high J load flights it's real business back there.

You just do not get the point. AY have a cabin layout that would allow, both babies and those who want to sleep, perfect room - unless many other airlines - so why don t they use this as a usp?

You just do not get the point. AY have a cabin layout that would allow, both babies and those who want to sleep, perfect room - unless many other airlines - so why don t they use this as a usp?

I do get your point - and actually, I get it beyond your thinking ;)

It simply would not make any commercial sense for AY to do what you propose, that's why they do not do it.

Like I said, the back J cabin is often used for high fare class Y pax with Y service + some elites as well... If AY did what you propose they would be forced to fly a lot of empty J seats on almost every flight and guess why they do not want to do it? It's not rocket science..

I do get your point - and actually, I get it beyond your thinking ;)

It simply would not make any commercial sense for AY to do what you propose, that's why they do not do it.

Like I said, the back J cabin is often used for high fare class Y pax with Y service + some elites as well... If AY did what you propose they would be forced to fly a lot of empty J seats on almost every flight and guess why they do not want to do it? It's not rocket science..
Not that I would really care, but I don't think anybody is requiring AY to remove the baby-compatible seat belts from row 1, so they could still use it if the rear cabin is not used (or if we are talking about a plane without the rear cabin.

That would actually give AY _more_ flexibility in the cabin use, the could use the rear cabin for C or "premium Y as needed (as they do now) but in the rare occurrence that they have more families in C, they could use both rows for infants.

Not that I would really care, but I don't think anybody is requiring AY to remove the baby-compatible seat belts from row 1, so they could still use it if the rear cabin is not used (or if we are talking about a plane without the rear cabin.

That would actually give AY _more_ flexibility in the cabin use, the could use the rear cabin for C or "premium Y as needed (as they do now) but in the rare occurrence that they have more families in C, they could use both rows for infants.

With that I agree, yes.

It would be nice to know how many such J flights there are where both cabins are used for J and they have infants on board...and also, if row one would still have infant seats every knowledgeable pax with babies would want to be seated there anyway... ;)

Anyway, people who want ultimate privacy can always fly private. With all commercial airlines you always have some risk, even in those so called sanctuaries like CX/SQ/EK First.

I do get your point - and actually, I get it beyond your thinking ;)

It simply would not make any commercial sense for AY to do what you propose, that's why they do not do it.

Like I said, the back J cabin is often used for high fare class Y pax with Y service + some elites as well... If AY did what you propose they would be forced to fly a lot of empty J seats on almost every flight and guess why they do not want to do it? It's not rocket science..

So how do I manage to fly in the rear cabin, without paying the J fare? I m AY+ Platinum, does this helps?

It happens to me about 4 or 5 times that there was an infant in row one, and I sat back in the rear (no problem with that) and I did not feel any difference regarding service i.e. So do they start doing "real" service in the back if someone moves from the front to the back to get some privacy?

Actually I never ever had the option to choose the rear seats while checkin in online.

So how do I manage to fly in the rear cabin, without paying the J fare? I m AY+ Platinum, does this helps?

It happens to me about 4 or 5 times that there was an infant in row one, and I sat back in the rear (no problem with that) and I did not feel any difference regarding service i.e. So do they start doing "real" service in the back if someone moves from the front to the back to get some privacy?

Actually I never ever had the option to choose the rear seats while checkin in online.
If economy is overbooked and there's room in C, they can use the rear cabin as economy, kind of like how they move the divider in SH fleet. Then it will be regular economy in all aspects (meals etc.) except for the fancy seat. If you never fly in whY (as I've understood) you of course don't have a chance of getting such "half an upgrade" anymore than a real OP-UP. If you do fly in Y, naturally Platinum will better your chances for both. And naturally neither can be guaranteed with a Y ticket.

If you move from J to Y (change seats), whether that is the "rear J" why cabin, or the "real" Y cabin they might or might not be willing to cater to you in J standards (probably not). If the rear cabin is J, then of course changing there is just like any other seat change within the front cabin, and there is no difference in service. When you moved, they probably used both cabins for J.
If the rear is not available during check-in then probably either the plane doesn't have a rear cabin or it is used for Y.

If the rear is not available during check-in then probably either the plane doesn't have a rear cabin or it is used for Y.

According to my AY+ account I did 56 flights on longhaul J in the past 24 month, I can not remember that it was possible to make a seat reservation in the rear section once - so do they always use it as Y?

I actually changed my seat to the back a few times, and as I said it was always "the real" service.


And yes, I never fly Y because I don t want to take the risk to sit in a real Y seat for 10 - 11 hours. So no op-up for me:(

According to my AY+ account I did 56 flights on longhaul J in the past 24 month, I can not remember that it was possible to make a seat reservation in the rear section once - so do they always use it as Y?

I would hazard guess they just want to keep their options open - if loads are light, they may leave the rear J cabin empty (a bit easier on cabin crew I suppose, and won't need to have it cleaned after the flight); if Y is overbooked but no J passengers are in the rear cabin yet they can use it as a "Y+".

If they let J passengers select seats in the rear cabin before the main J cabin is full, they lose both of these options unless they want to move people from their assigned seats. I don't know if it becomes possible to select seats in the rear cabin after the main cabin is full, or if they would wait until checkin to see if there are any cancellations.

According to my AY+ account I did 56 flights on longhaul J in the past 24 month, I can not remember that it was possible to make a seat reservation in the rear section once - so do they always use it as Y?

I actually changed my seat to the back a few times, and as I said it was always "the real" service.


And yes, I never fly Y because I don t want to take the risk to sit in a real Y seat for 10 - 11 hours. So no op-up for me:(

Like said above they open the back J cabin for advance seat reservations once they see that a particular flight has high demand for J.

You ask "do they always use it as Y?" and then later you write "I actually changed my seat to the back a few times, and as I said it was always "the real" service." so there you have your answer to that..they definitely use it for J if there's demand, otherwise they would be totally crazy, wouldn't they??

Sometimes they also fly with totally empty mid cabin, seen it many times especially on daytime flights from Asia and to JFK..on night flights they tend to open it for Y pax more easily, it seems..I have no specific data on this, however, as it's been years since I've boarded AY long haul flight w/o J boarding pass and I never select seats in the back cabin so I've only looked while visiting the loo/galley..often seen Y service offerings there on night flights..

Personally, I would set an age limit of 10 in J.

Personally, I would set an age limit of 10 in J.

I disagree totally with the above.

I have taken hundreds of long haul J flights to/from every continent on the globe and only once I have really suffered from a baby being too noisy, beyond extreme, I would say...that was years ago on a Lan flight from Santiago to Auckland..the baby got really, really sick during the night flight and the captain called for a doctor many times as the screaming went on for hours, even that time I felt more sorry for the parents than worried about my sleep.

YMMV but anyway international J is not really that different, exclusive or special some people (especially those who usually fly in coach) seem to imagine, it's just a bit more personal space and enhanced catering you pay for, babies and their parents have all the rights to travel there when they pay what the airline is asking..if J/F is not enough the option to fly private is always there.

To recap a bit, due to size limitations Finnair places baby bassinets on bulkhead/first rows in Y (tourist class). Due to different seatbelts (and perhaps size limitations?) Finnair does the same in front-J (business class, front part). This is true at least for the A330 with the new full-flat seats. It is unknown whether or not they have similar seatbelts/room for bassinets in rear-J, first row - we all seem to agree that if they don't, they should. But, as far as the original question goes, the real reason Finnair doesn't always place J-babies in rear-J (to grant privacy to front-J) is because they want to keep rear-J clear as a potential Y-extension (when J is light and Y is full) or completely empty to ease service/cleaning.

As for babies in business, I think first of all babies and children are two separate issues. Babies in particular are creatures of nature, who can't help themselves when something is wrong (flying a mile high with changes in air pressure doesn't help this!). Children of only few years already can do much better, especially when seated in front of a IFE screen. Certainly a crying baby can spoil the tranquil atmosphere J often offers and that many pay for. I do understand that.

But take it reverse: Consider yourself traveling with children. It is already a lot of sweat, stress and work. Being forced to go Y because of the children, which in itself can make traveling with children all the worse due to cramped conditions, seems quite harsh too and would deny many the small piece of luxury that would make family traveling a little easier.

I'd rather suffer the occasional baby in J than suffer the occasional Y because of a baby of my own, and thus I'm willing to grant this to others as well. :)

There might be a policy change in this now? I found this on check-in today

http://screencast.com/t/7ZVcyZjcj

I have not seen these coulour codes before. The purple seats are labled "First row", I guess they mean bulkhead. The yellow seats do not carry a lable (in swedish version anyway) but the name of that graphic used is "cotbassinetseat.gif"

Note that the yellow seats are only in the mid-C-cabin and not in the front cabin. As mentioned in this thread earlier, babies in Y are placed just behind row 7, so there might be a change in the preallocation/reservation of babies in J.

The yellow seats are not locked, I can choose one if I like.

Hi Ed Size, I'm flying always with cheapest tickets because of my customers travel policy (many long hauls only 50% of the tier points) and is just getting 300.000 tier points for Platinum (one year period from 2012). This year I'm getting easily over the Platinum level and was wondering does my points (going over 300.000) go to black hole.

After reading amount of long haul flight you are doing in J yearly, I seem to have no major concern anymore. The amount of my points going to black hole is nothing compared with your (above 300.000 tier points)

Happy flying.

Hi Ed Size, I'm flying always with cheapest tickets because of my customers travel policy (many long hauls only 50% of the tier points) and is just getting 300.000 tier points for Platinum (one year period from 2012). This year I'm getting easily over the Platinum level and was wondering does my points (going over 300.000) go to black hole.

After reading amount of long haul flight you are doing in J yearly, I seem to have no major concern anymore. The amount of my points going to black hole is nothing compared with your (above 300.000 tier points)

Happy flying.

I have no problem with points vanishing in the black hole, I don t use them anyway - since I m way too lazy to do any longterm planing.

I m happy if I get a longhaul C flight once in a while on BA to South America, which most of the time don t work out.