European Rail Travel - How train connection works

Hi,
I just bought a ticket from Amsterdam to Hamburg. It has a connection at Osnabrueck.
Amsterdam to Osnabrueck, then Osnabrueck to Hamburg.

But the problem is the e-ticket I got has no information Osnabrueck to Hamburg though it does say that my destination is Hamburg. Does it mean that I can use any train from Osnabrueck to Hamburg for free?

On the return ticket also, it has no information for Hamburg to Osnabrueck. I am very confused? How this works?

Thanks in advance.
Hossen

Does your ticket have a specific Amsterdam-Osnabruck train listed?

How much did you pay for the ticket?.

Full fare tickets are valid on any train, saver tickets are not. However, from my experience it is most unusual for tickets NOT to have a full itinerary on them (even if they are flexible tickets that are valid on any train) so this does sound unusual.

If you like I can have a look at the ticket for you and see if I can make sense of it - I'll PM you my email address in case you want to take me up on this.

Does your ticket have a specific Amsterdam-Osnabruck train listed?

I am not sure...I bought it from HS Speed...

How much did you pay for the ticket?.

Full fare tickets are valid on any train, saver tickets are not. However, from my experience it is most unusual for tickets NOT to have a full itinerary on them (even if they are flexible tickets that are valid on any train) so this does sound unusual.

If you like I can have a look at the ticket for you and see if I can make sense of it - I'll PM you my email address in case you want to take me up on this.

I bought it from HS Speed..Ams - Ham is EUR 39 and the return is EUR 59. When I bought it online, they showed Amsterdam - Osnabrueck 36 and Osnabrueck to Hamburg EUR 3..but there is nothing in the ticket!

asifulm, YHM.

For others who are following this thread... I have now seen the ticket, and it is a saver ticket from Schiphol to Hamburg with a reservation for the Schiphol to Osnabrück leg (and back) but no reservation to/from Hamburg and no timings either - which is quite unusual (I have travelled on that very same route on a number of occasions, and my tickets - bought from bahn.de - have always included reservations for both trains).

I wonder if this is a bug?

How much did you pay for the ticket?.

Full fare tickets are valid on any train, saver tickets are not. However, from my experience it is most unusual for tickets NOT to have a full itinerary on them (even if they are flexible tickets that are valid on any train) so this does sound unusual.

Eh? No UK flexible tickets have itineraries printed on them unless you reserve a seat (in which case it's on a separate coupon, except the *very* rare ATB type), nor to my knowledge do German ones (which are the type in question).

Can you post the bit of text under the "VIA"/"Ueber" field? If that refers to a specific train number you will have to use that, otherwise not. In any case I can interpret what it says for you.

Neil

I wonder if this is a bug?

What does the "via"/"Ueber" section say?

Reservations are almost always optional and chargeable on DB. You can have a "saver" ticket without them - it's what's in that field that defines if you must use a specific train.

Neil

asifulm, YHM.

For others who are following this thread... I have now seen the ticket, and it is a saver ticket from Schiphol to Hamburg with a reservation for the Schiphol to Osnabrück leg (and back) but no reservation to/from Hamburg and no timings either - which is quite unusual (I have travelled on that very same route on a number of occasions, and my tickets - bought from bahn.de - have always included reservations for both trains).

I wonder if this is a bug?

DB tickets, yes - but this was issued by NS, and therefore the connecting train within Germany might not be specified.

Eh? No UK flexible tickets have itineraries printed on them unless you reserve a seat (in which case it's on a separate coupon, except the *very* rare ATB type), nor to my knowledge do German ones (which are the type in question).

I was specifically talking about tickets bought online at bahn.de. All the ones I have ever bought (both flexible and non-flexible) had a specific itinerary printed on them. Maybe there is a different way of doing things, but when I book at bahn.de I start with the timetable tool, choose the train I am most likely to travel on and click the button next to it to make the booking. This will generate a ticket with that particular train printed on it.

what does the "via"/"ueber" section say?

Reservations are almost always optional and chargeable on db. You can have a "saver" ticket without them - it's what's in that field that defines if you must use a specific train.

Neil

via [1184]*bad bentheim gr.[1080]*rheine*(ibbenbueren/muenster)*osnabrueck*bremen***

via [1184]*bad bentheim gr.[1080]*rheine*(ibbenbueren/muenster)*osnabrueck*bremen***

That doesn't appear to give you specific trains (I checked those numbers against the list at http://www.fernbahn.de/ - one of them doesn't exist and one of them is so far away from where you're going as to be irrelevant).

So on the face of it you can use any train (maybe not ICE, depends on ticket type) so long as you cross the border at Bad Bentheim, then travel via Rheine, then either Ibbenbueren or Muenster (or I think any route geographically between the two), then Osnabrueck, then Bremen. But, not having seen the actual ticket, I do now wonder if it's a mistake of some sort. Certainly, if it is a "Sparpreis" type ticket you are normally restricted to specific trains, which are normally specified in the Via/Ueber.

Neil

I was specifically talking about tickets bought online at bahn.de.

Not bought from there for a while, though when I did I got the same thing as I would have done at the station, which was a normal open ticket without trains on it and a set of separate reservations.

I think if you print your own it's different, though.

By the way, for an EUR 42 ticket for that journey I just tried to run through for about 3 weeks' time:-

"Travel Conditions
Single ticket valid for 2 days. The train journey must always be made ​​one day, unless passenger holds a reservation for IC or ICE train. In this case, the ticket valid for 2 days on the railway track. Only valid in conjunction with a Super Discount reservation. (Booking through Internet is already inclusive of booking). NOTE: Home Print tickets are valid for one day."

Though to confuse you even more, the bottom of the search page says:-

"Please Note: Your railway ticket is valid for 1 month, with the exception of a Weekend Return ticket (only valid on friday, saturday and sunday), a Super Day Return ticket (valid for 1 day) and all homeprint tickets (valid for 1 day). In all the above-mentioned cases you are not obligated to travel with the selected train (with the exception of Thalys)."

...which is contradictory. And when I do try to do it you get a "superdiscount" reservation for the first bit, but an normal DB reservation for the second bit at EUR 3.

Perhaps contact NS? Might be an error, or it might be that you don't need a reservation for the internal German section of the journey.

Neil

I think the numbers are tracks/lines, not trains.

That doesn't appear to give you specific trains (I checked those numbers against the list at http://www.fernbahn.de/ - one of them doesn't exist and one of them is so far away from where you're going as to be irrelevant).

They're routing codes on the ticket (as with most international tickets), not train numbers.

NS Speed Booking (http://onlineboeken2.nshispeed.nl/d-cobs-web/doffers.html?departureDate=14-06-2011&logonId=&returnDate=18-06-2011&custId=&origin=NLSHL&bp=&loyaltyCard=&rp=&passType2=4&extChangeTime=&locale=en_GB&pax3=0&partner=NSINT&vu=&passType1=A&valueChanged=&thalysTicketless=&ov=&toporef=&passType3=6&shopId=&xtsite=&loyaltyCardNumber=&departureTime=06%3A00&pax1=1&destination=DEHGH&bk=&thePassWeekend=&comfortClass=2&xtpage=&returnTimeType=1&returnTime=06%3A00&departureTimeType=1&debugDOffer=&thePassBusiness=&bc=&beneUser=&socusId=&returnUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fonlineboeken.nshispeed.nl%2 Fmicrotips%2Findex%2F6479098&pax2=0&cid=176308#)

Use this link to go to nshispeed.nl web. Click 'Show fare conditions' at the bottom.
Can anyone explain it??

So on the face of it you can use any train (maybe not ICE, depends on ticket type) so long as you cross the border at Bad Bentheim, then travel via Rheine, then either Ibbenbueren or Muenster (or I think any route geographically between the two), then Osnabrueck, then Bremen. But, not having seen the actual ticket, I do now wonder if it's a mistake of some sort. Certainly, if it is a "Sparpreis" type ticket you are normally restricted to specific trains, which are normally specified in the Via/Ueber

Having seen the actual ticket (the OP emailed me a copy)... it is definitely restricted to one particular train for the Amsterdam to Osnabrück part of the journey, so having an alternative route printed on there (i.e., via Münster) is a bit of a contradiction - how can a ticket be valid via Münster when it is only valid on one specific train which does NOT go via Münster?

However... this is really all a bit off-topic as the issue was with the onward connection to Hamburg where the OP didn't know if he was restricted to one specific train or not. What railways is saying about this sounds quite plausible:

DB tickets, yes - but this was issued by NS, and therefore the connecting train within Germany might not be specified.

So - my guess is that the ticket is probably valid on any train between Osnabrück and Hamburg.

NS Speed Booking (http://onlineboeken2.nshispeed.nl/d-cobs-web/doffers.html?departureDate=14-06-2011&logonId=&returnDate=18-06-2011&custId=&origin=NLSHL&bp=&loyaltyCard=&rp=&passType2=4&extChangeTime=&locale=en_GB&pax3=0&partner=NSINT&vu=&passType1=A&valueChanged=&thalysTicketless=&ov=&toporef=&passType3=6&shopId=&xtsite=&loyaltyCardNumber=&departureTime=06%3A00&pax1=1&destination=DEHGH&bk=&thePassWeekend=&comfortClass=2&xtpage=&returnTimeType=1&returnTime=06%3A00&departureTimeType=1&debugDOffer=&thePassBusiness=&bc=&beneUser=&socusId=&returnUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fonlineboeken.nshispeed.nl%2 Fmicrotips%2Findex%2F6479098&pax2=0&cid=176308#)

Use this link to go to nshispeed.nl web. Click 'Show fare conditions' at the bottom.
Can anyone explain it??

What a confusing site - especially when you click on some of the other links, like the one with the EUR 3.00 onward seat reservation. Doesn't really seem to explain anything at all!

However, from what I can work out (by looking at the site, AND the ticket):

You have a saver ticket which includes a seat reservation for the Amsterdam-Osnabrück part of the journey.

Reserving a seat for the other part of the journey would have cost you an additional EUR 3.00 (that's the reserved seat, not the fare). You did not buy that additional reserved seat.

If the saver fare requires you to reserve a seat for all parts of the journey then the system shouldn't have sold you the fare without making you pay that additional EUR 3.00.

What a confusing site - especially when you click on some of the other links, like the one with the EUR 3.00 onward seat reservation. Doesn't really seem to explain anything at all!

However, from what I can work out (by looking at the site, AND the ticket):

You have a saver ticket which includes a seat reservation for the Amsterdam-Osnabrück part of the journey.

Reserving a seat for the other part of the journey would have cost you an additional EUR 3.00 (that's the reserved seat, not the fare). You did not buy that additional reserved seat.

If the saver fare requires you to reserve a seat for all parts of the journey then the system shouldn't have sold you the fare without making you pay that additional EUR 3.00.

Actually I paid the EUR 3...when I bough the ticket, price was 36+3 = 39 which is now 39+3 =42.

Well, I called the customer service..and what they are saying is that from Osnabruek I can take any train to Hamburg, I won't have to purchase anything more. Hopefully this will work!

Thanks all for your help.

If they think that, I thought there was a possibility of that, as did another poster on the thread I think you're pretty safe.

Enjoy your journey!

Neil

Having seen the actual ticket (the OP emailed me a copy)... it is definitely restricted to one particular train for the Amsterdam to Osnabrück part of the journey, so having an alternative route printed on there (i.e., via Münster) is a bit of a contradiction - how can a ticket be valid via Münster when it is only valid on one specific train which does NOT go via Münster?

Because the ticket can presumably also be issued with reservations for trains that go via Muenster, if those trains have a suitable quota.

Ticket and reservation tend not to be as tightly connected in the world of railways as they are in the world of air travel, even if they happen to be printed on the same bit of card. The only time they tend to be one and the same is on Globalpreis/prix global/global fare type tickets, common on high speed trains and fast international trains, but not so common on the European classic networks.

Neil

They're routing codes on the ticket (as with most international tickets), not train numbers.

I gathered they might be - but DB Sparpreis tickets are definitely issued with routeings like:-

VIA: NV * HAM * ICE1234 * MUE * NV

if it was valid for use of local trains (Nahverkehr) to Hamburg, then train ICE1234 only, then local trains from Muenchen to the final destination. So I thought I'd best check NS hadn't just printed the numbers minus the prefix.

Neil