Finnair Plus - AY A340 Differences Question?

Hello,

I'm travelling with Qantas/Finnair in J Class this July, and had a few questions about the differences I'm reading about with some of AY's A340 aircraft.

After flying QF to and from MEL/SIN rtn (on the A380), I'm using AY SIN/HEL/GOT - OSL/HEL/SIN return. Both these longhaul flights are operated with the A340, but it looks like AY have 2 different A340's in their fleet.

The Finnair website mentions very little about these different aircraft, with the only quote I could find being,

"On all Airbus A330-300 and most Airbus A340-300 aircraft, every seat is equipped with a personal entertainment system and screen that the passenger can use, including in Economy Class."

Does this mean on some A340 aircraft there is no inseat video system in J Class? Also I'm guessing the seats are different too, what are they like? Currently I've got 2A/2C in both directions.

Can someone with knowledge about this please let me know what I'm in for.

I've not paid for my ticket yet, and I'm seriously considering changing to all QF or maybe BA thru to Sweden.

On a side note, does AY offer PJ's in J Class?

Hope someone can help me out, and sorry if this topic has been discussed before.

Cheers

Hello,

I'm travelling with Qantas/Finnair in J Class this July, and had a few questions about the differences I'm reading about with some of AY's A340 aircraft.

After flying QF to and from MEL/SIN rtn (on the A380), I'm using AY SIN/HEL/GOT - OSL/HEL/SIN return. Both these longhaul flights are operated with the A340, but it looks like AY have 2 different A340's in their fleet.

The Finnair website mentions very little about these different aircraft, with the only quote I could find being,

"On all Airbus A330-300 and most Airbus A340-300 aircraft, every seat is equipped with a personal entertainment system and screen that the passenger can use, including in Economy Class."

Does this mean on some A340 aircraft there is no inseat video system in J Class? Also I'm guessing the seats are different too, what are they like? Currently I've got 2A/2C in both directions.

Can someone with knowledge about this please let me know what I'm in for.

I've not paid for my ticket yet, and I'm seriously considering changing to all QF or maybe BA thru to Sweden.

On a side note, does AY offer PJ's in J Class?

Hope someone can help me out, and sorry if this topic has been discussed before.

Cheers
Every seat in all AY LH aircraft has a in seat video system, both in Y and in J. What kind of video system depends on which kind of AY340 you'll get. In no plane is the system worse in J than it is in Y :)

The "real" AY planes have decent AVOD system (although some have found the content selection somewhat limited. )
The 2 former Air France birds (OH-LQF and OH-LQG) have the old AF hard product (including seats and IFE), with PTV:s but with channels instead of AVOD. I'm not sure but I've understood that J is AVOD in the ex-AF birds as well, somebody can probably confirm or correct. The old AF planes are also older more worn out generally.

SIN route as I've understood is quite a high risk to get the ex-AF planes, although you can't know for sure before the day you travel.

Seats are angled lie flat in both, you can see a panorama of the "real AY product" in here: http://www.finnair.fi//filecontent/common/fleet/a340/a340_business.htm
The old AF product can be seen here: http://209.85.120.99/viewphoto.php?id=6738310&nseq=489

SIN route as I've understood is quite a high risk to get the ex-AF planes,

Based on what?

Thanks mkgrip for that additional information. The photos are very helpful.

It's a shame Finnair would paint their new livery on aircraft that don't even have their advertised product onboard. The Finnair marketing dept must be going crazy with this.

Just 2 more small questions,

Do Finnair offer PJ's in J Class and do they offer noise cancelling headsets? Just wondering if I need to bring my own.

Thanks in advance

Cheers

SIN route as I've understood is quite a high risk to get the ex-AF planes, although you can't know for sure before the day you travel.

Seats are angled lie flat in both, you can see a panorama of the "real AY product" in here: http://www.finnair.fi//filecontent/common/fleet/a340/a340_business.htm
The old AF product can be seen here: http://209.85.120.99/viewphoto.php?id=6738310&nseq=489

Whats your source regarding the SIN operations?
If true, it'd be a real shame and utter stupidity that they'd want to enter a new (premium heavy) market with their inferior product. I hope this is not the case and that they do a shuffle around so more leisure oriented routes like BKK get the ex-AF birds instead.

I fully agree that BKK would be a more suitable route to "dump" unfinished products. It seems a bit insane to try to compete with the likes of SQ featuring an outdated and in many ways inferior cabin on the SIN route.

Seat11A: Yes they have NC-headphones, but no PJ:s.

Whats your source regarding the SIN operations?
If true, it'd be a real shame and utter stupidity that they'd want to enter a new (premium heavy) market with their inferior product. I hope this is not the case and that they do a shuffle around so more leisure oriented routes like BKK get the ex-AF birds instead.
This:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/finnair-plus/1211302-oh-lqf-why-2.html#post16325266

I don't know what Ed Sizes source is an how reliable that is- Could be just a rumor.
There have also been rumors (including in the linked thread) that the ex-AF cabins will be refurbished to the "real AY product" but I have no idea when exactly, and I haven't seen anything definitive from AY on this.

I guess I could also copy a tip from Ed Size from that thread that if you can find a seat map of your flight, you can recognize the old AF planes from the fact that they don't have seats 1A and 1C. According to the the seat-maps there is a similar tell-tale difference in whY aswell: the last row in economy in regular AY birds is 56, whereas the ex-AF birds also have 57.
Of course EQ changes do happen, and the earlier you look at this, the less reliable the info is.

I would not be too concerned with AY lack of choice on AVOD, allows more time to sleep on the overnight trips to/from SIN :)

Regarding the risk getting the AF birds out of SIN, I got the information from a AY sales person. Reality shows that there is a quite good chance to get those worn seats from and to BKK as well.

I can t see how you can use your own head sets on the ex AF planes in J since the headphones are fixed to your seat - and they are not good.

I changed already about 8 tickets from AY to LH and TG because of the "old planes", even if they cost me about 30% more.

I would not be too concerned with AY lack of choice on AVOD, allows more time to sleep on the overnight trips to/from SIN :)

If you end up in one of the old planes, you will be concerned since the seat are so hard/bad that you won t sleep very long nor good.

Regarding the risk getting the AF birds out of SIN, I got the information from a AY sales person.

Well...they know nothing about fleet rotation. :D

Well...they know nothing about fleet rotation. :D

I guess you are right and that sucks......I had two very easy years with AY, now I have to check all options when I want to go to BKK. It looks like SK gets some of my business.

I fully agree that BKK would be a more suitable route to "dump" unfinished products. It seems a bit insane to try to compete with the likes of SQ featuring an outdated and in many ways inferior cabin on the SIN route.
Don´t be so sure about that.
Me for example am a Stockholm based frequent BKK traveller.
I switched from TG´s nonstop flights ARN-BKK to AY just because of their new flat beds.
If they returned to the old angled seats I would save this extra stop and two hours of my time by returning to TG again.

Well...they know nothing about fleet rotation. :D

The gent supervising AY sales in Singapore was previously responsible for network strategy at VP level...Don't you think he might have a bit insight?

Don´t be so sure about that.
Me for example am a Stockholm based frequent BKK traveller.
I switched from TG´s nonstop flights ARN-BKK to AY just because of their new flat beds.
If they returned to the old angled seats I would save this extra stop and two hours of my time by returning to TG again.

AY Flatbeds = A330 right? If you don t like AY angled seats = A340 (right?), avoid at any cost their newest fleet addition (ex AF) these seats are worse then they where on the MD-11.

The gent supervising AY sales in Singapore was previously responsible for network strategy at VP level...Don't you think he might have a bit insight?

Nice one! :D :D

I will be trying AY in June and got an invite to the party to celebrate the start of the HEL - SIN route and will see what they say on seating -

No need - Finnair have 7 A340 aicraft. 2 of them came from AF - all 7 machines are rotated on all long haul routes according to their maintenence schedule which means the AF machines will come to Singapore 1 or 2 a week.

Thanks to everyone for their opinions about the AY A340 aircraft, and the old AF Business Class cabins etc.

I've taken all this valuable information onboard, combined with the possible pilots strike at QF and decided to rebook with BA Club World MEL/SYD/BKK/LHR/GOT, OSL/LHR/SIN/SYD/MEL. Even managed to take advantage of the BA upgrade offer to First Class on the homeward sectors back to Australia.

I was so looking forward to flying with Finnair, and hope they upgrade these old AF A340 aircraft soon.

There's always next year.

AY Flatbeds = A330 right? If you don t like AY angled seats = A340 (right?), avoid at any cost their newest fleet addition (ex AF) these seats are worse then they where on the MD-11.

Not quite. I think about half of the 330´s have the same angled seats as the original AY 340´s.
On BKK route mostly on the dayflights. But I´ve just noticed that some of the night flights the comming autumn also will have them.
But it´s easy to see the difference by a dummy booking and this far there´s never been any equipment change at my flights.

Besides the AF-planes, one 340, OH-LQA, came from Virgin Atlantic. It has a different layout with less stowage space and fewer toilets. There is no overhead stowage over middle row in C-class. This is the oldest 340 in AY fleet.


All in all I find AY not quite as modern as ads are saying, but I wouldn't call the situation dire. In my personal view, rebooking to BA10 based on this is uncalled for. On my last trip on BA10 SYD-BKK, the C-cabin had wine stains on carpet and walls, and big chunks of paint missing here and there. Not impressive.

You will also lose much time going MEL-GOT via LHR instead of going via HEL.

Certainly, F-class is nicer, and AY does not offer that so that is a perfect reason.

arahlen, You're probably quite right, so I've removed the "sounds dire" comment. Having not flown Finnair I really should give them the benefit of the doubt.

After reading some of the comments on here, and coupled with the possible Qantas strike we've decided there is to much uncertainty with our old QF/AY booking.

This trip is a special trip for us (not work related for once), and my partner doesn't travel in the premium cabins all that often. So I've decided to book a product I know and trust. I quite like the BA Club World seats, and they are a great way to travel when travelling as a couple. So it's back to the 744 Upperdeck for us.

A few carpet stains and chipped paint ain't going to effect things all that much. However dodgy seats and outdated IFE might.

Plus the BA upgrade to First Class on the way home is going to be a surprise, and this option wasn't available when I made our original QF/AY booking some months ago.

Luckily this trip has few time constraints, and while travelling via HEL to GOT was the fastest option, travelling via London isn't really going to be a problem this time around.

I do plan to use Finnair on another trip to Europe in the future, I just hope by then they have sorted out the J class seating, and bring everything into line. It's only through forums such as this you get the benefit of other peoples travels, and the advice can prove invaluable.

Again thanks everyone for your comments and happy flying.

Cheers

I have got my first SIN - HEL - DUS flight on the 19th June. Last night at the inauguration party in Singapore I asked about the aircraft they are using and the answer was:

Most of the aircraft are brand new, 2 are ex-AirFrance and 1 ex Virgin Atlantic.
Virgin Atlantic one has got the same amount of toilets, but they are smaller.
In business class there is no top middle luggage compartment.
The interior was done by Sir Richard Branson personally....so it cant be that bad....

I will do this flight 5 or 6 times a year now so will get to see a few of their aircraft.

It is just normal A340 rotation on HEL-SIN-HEL.

Hello.

Regarding the AVOD on the Finnair A340.
I am going to fly the route HEL - HKG this summer, and I assume that A340 is used on that route.
Last year, I flew CPH - PEK with SAS's A340, and I was quite dissapointed with their AVOD, which did not allow you to pause or restart your movies. It was simply playing on a loop, and you were lucky if you actually managed to get to see a movie from the beginning, which kinda contradicts the whole "on-demand" thing.

Is this the same on Finnair's A340?

Hello.

Regarding the AVOD on the Finnair A340.
I am going to fly the route HEL - HKG this summer, and I assume that A340 is used on that route.


Finnair has both A340:s and A330:s flying to HKG, check the EQ on the exact flight you're taking.

Last year, I flew CPH - PEK with SAS's A340, and I was quite dissapointed with their AVOD, which did not allow you to pause or restart your movies. It was simply playing on a loop, and you were lucky if you actually managed to get to see a movie from the beginning, which kinda contradicts the whole "on-demand" thing.
Kinda like flying economy contradicts the whole business class thing ;)?
Looping channels are not AVOD, they are IFE though... SK doesn't have AVOD in Economy and they don't claim to (AVOD only Eco Extra and Business).


Is this the same on Finnair's A340?
As said in this thread, depends on which plane (individual) you get. If you get an ex- Air France bird (2/7), you will have channels similar to to the SK eco, if you get a original Finnair bird (or the retrofitted ex-Virgin) you will have touch-screen AVOD.
That is unless they retrofit the ex-AF:s before your flight, I still have no idea on schedule on that.

If your flight is on a A330, you are guaranteed to have a AVOD system.

Most of the aircraft are brand new, 2 are ex-AirFrance and 1 ex Virgin Atlantic.
Virgin Atlantic one has got the same amount of toilets, but they are smaller.
In business class there is no top middle luggage compartment.
The interior was done by Sir Richard Branson personally....so it cant be that bad....



The ex Virgin 340 does not have a toilet in front of seat 1A, in contrast to the newer 340's.

The missing overhead luggage compartment do make this cabin very "airy", giving you a nice feeling when entering. However, it also makes it harder to find space for your carry on luggage.

According to the the AY seatmaps OH-LQA (ex-Virgin) has 3 toilets in C (1 in the front, 2 in the middle) and 5 in Y (2 in the middle, 3 in the back).

LQB-LQE (original AY) have 3 in C (2 in the front 1 in the middle) and 6 in Y (4 in the middle, 2 in the back)

LQF and LQG (ex-AF) have 3 in C (1 in the front, 2 in the middle) and 5 in Y (4 in the middle, 1 in the back).

Just a comment on AY and it's international business, I've flown in finnairs business quite a lot, it's wonderful, especially if youre finnish. Sure, its maybe not as luxurious as other long-haul businessclasses but great service, excellent food and the new 180 degree seat, drooling already. out of OW carriers, CX BA and AY have the best business class seats, on BA LOOOOVE the rearward facing setup, practically like being in 1st if youve got a window seat :D

I'm trying Finnair next week HEL-HKG and returning SIN-HEL two weeks later. Both seat maps in Business don't have seats 1AC which I think means both flights operated by the ex-AF aircraft. Anyone found the actual aircraft turns out to be one of the other 340s on the day?

Yes, OH-LQF and OH-LQG are the ex-airfrance 340's and the only one missing seat 1A/C in AY 340 fleet.

I don't think I have ever experienced a change in what planes serves my trip as close as one week before departure, but anything is possible. Online checkin starts 36 hours before takeoff, check the seat map then.

The identity of the aircraft is sometimes painted above the cockpit window, I usually look for this, just because I find it interesting to know exactly what plane I am flying with.

I'm trying Finnair next week HEL-HKG and returning SIN-HEL two weeks later. Both seat maps in Business don't have seats 1AC which I think means both flights operated by the ex-AF aircraft. Anyone found the actual aircraft turns out to be one of the other 340s on the day?

You want an advise? Change your flights or be brave.

I plan a trip to SIN, but I'm little concern about business class seat.
any news about possible upgrade of the seat in near futur? 340 will be never changed to new business class seat?

The old AF product can be seen here: http://209.85.120.99/viewphoto.php?id=6738310&nseq=489

I flew HEL-HKG on OH-LQG (one of the ex-AF birds) on 9 June 2011 and while the shell of the seat is the same as the picture, the seat itself was a light blue material, not fully flat but nowhere near as bad as some have suggested.
A very attentive crew, about 20 current movies on AVOD (unfortunately I 'd seen most of them on Cathay in April), better than average food so nowhere near the terrible experience I was expecting. I even managed some sleep.

This is interesting, going to test if this theory works - I'm going next week NRT>HEL and seat map shows no 1AC. Well, at least the food will be up to regular Finnair standard (which I like) and it can't be worse than Y.

Can anyone that have flewn the old AF343's give advice on which seats that are best? Front or the smaller rear cabin? I usually like the rear cabin on the regular A340's.

Outbound on the 'no 1AC' aircraft there was definately more leg room in the smaller rear business class cabin (seat 6A) but all the catering seems to come from the galley immediately in front of row 6 so can get a little noisy. Inbound on the same aircraft I had seat 1L, nice and quiet but not as much legroom. 2AC look good seats.

So, a quick report on this topic... As said, the seat map didn't post 1AC neither the week before the flight when I made the choice of seats nor the day before the flight when I went in to double check the seat map. BUT, it was the "usual" A340, meaning the good one.

Conclusion is then that you can still get the good A340 even when 1AC doesn't post

So, a quick report on this topic... As said, the seat map didn't post 1AC neither the week before the flight when I made the choice of seats nor the day before the flight when I went in to double check the seat map. BUT, it was the "usual" A340, meaning the good one.

Conclusion is then that you can still get the good A340 even when 1AC doesn't post
Probably a last minute EQ change, one plane went tech or was delayed and they had to switch planes. You can not be 100% sure either way before you are actually onboard.

If you're lucky enough, you could even end up in the lovely spacious torture chamber called the AY 757 :D
http://wap.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/3384449

If you're lucky enough, you could even end up in the lovely spacious torture chamber called the AY 757 :D

On NRT route?

On NRT route?
Weirder things have happened... extremely unlikely though...

The point was however that EQ changes happen (with all airlines), and quite anything can happen in exceptional situations. Don't take it too seriously.

When I was reading this thread, I was getting a bit nervous about my booking to Singapore and back in September/October. It turned out to be an ideal experiment to test the arguments in this discussion: I got a "new" A340 (IQD) on the way out and an "ex-AF" one (IQG) on the way back to Helsinki.

What I can confirm, based on this experience:
(a) You can really get both configurations on this route.
(b) You can basically identfy them according to the seatmap (1AC missing in ex-AF birds) ... but I only spotted the difference when I did OLCI. Admittedly, I had other things to do than to check regularly ... but clearly 1 month before both flights were still identical.
(c) IFE on ex AF-planes is older and offers less options, but at least in J there are individual videos. I'm not a strong IFE user, so it didn't bother me.
(d) Yes, the interior of IQD looks much fresher than the one of the ex-AF IQG. But also IQG is not worse than what you get on any quality airline if you get one of their older planes. I certainly have seen more tired interiors on BA, LH, EK - even on regional SQ. It's certainly not something that would stop me flying AY.

What I can't confirm:
(e) The seats are angled on both planes. While they are slightly different, there is no difference in substance. They are equally soft/hard, they have same space (I'm 197cm and was fine in both), they have the same sort of fabric etc. No differnence in terms of sleeping quality.
(f) The number of lavatories is the same, although in slightly different spaces.

So bottom line, yes the original AY product is a bit fresher. But in substance there is very little difference. So no worries!

Thanks swiss_global for a balanced review of the AY differences on their A340 aircraft. Your comments make me feel happier about booking AY for my forthcoming trip to OSL.

Seeing I kick started this thread, I thought I would make a comment about the trip that originally inspired me to start this thread in the first place.

I had originally booked a QF/AY itinerary to GOT via HEL. However after reading reviews about the ex-AF aircraft, and the possibility of a QF pilots' strike, I decided to change my itinerary to BA MEL/SYD/LHR/GOT vv with an upgrade to First Class on the return LHR/SYD sectors.

Well sometimes putting too much thought into something can have it's misgivings:-

1. The QF Pilots strike didn't happen
2. Both longhaul flights I would have had on AY were not operated by ex-AF aircraft
3. BA lost our luggage going up to GOT
4. While having the New First Class product on the BA777 from LHR/SIN/SYD, the IFE was a non starter for the entire journey home. (So much for limited IFE on the ex-AF aircraft, we didn't have any IFE for 24 hours)

So in short, even with thorough planning and research, one still has to roll with the punches.

Next time I'll just go with AY, and enjoy the Via Spa in Helsinki.

Thanks everyone for your help and advice,

Happy Travels

Cheers

I have been flying AY long haul for nearly 3 years, but yesterday was my first time on an ex AF A340, namely OH-LQG. Well, I agree with swiss_global that there is very little difference between the different planes and not much to worry about.

e) About the seats I actually found the sligthly softer than on the newer A340's but that can be just in mind, no big difference.

f) About the toilets beeing located in different spaces is actually an advantage for the front row seats as there will be less foot traffic. There is only one toilet in the front on these birds, and it is not visible from the cabin, so most pax use the toilets behind row 6.

I would however recommend to stay away from row 1, especially seat 1D. Since 1AC is replaced by stowage space, there is constantly FA traffic to this area and a lot of slamming of doors. Seat 1L feels a little "squeezed" as the cabin narrows at the feet. I could be in my imagination only, but I have not noticed this on the other A340s.

An YouTube video of the Business Class on Finnair's ex-AF 343, HEL-BKK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CHRMhvuyR4

Tomorrow's flight from SIN to HEL (24 Nov) appears to have been switched from the ex-AF metal to one of the "regular/new" planes.

Looks quite busy in biz, maybe we should have a sticky in this forum about what to do if on the extremely rare occasion you encounter an overbooking scenario (what to expect, what to agree to/"fight" for, etc.).

Tomorrow's flight from SIN to HEL (24 Nov) appears to have been switched from the ex-AF metal to one of the "regular/new" planes.

Looks quite busy in biz, maybe we should have a sticky in this forum about what to do if on the extremely rare occasion you encounter an overbooking scenario (what to expect, what to agree to/"fight" for, etc.).

This might be/is a rookie question but how can you tell? I tried to do searches and ended up finding out that SeatCounter is down but FlightStats is working. I registered but still don't get it as FS shows 9+ seats in biz.

I've only taken a look at the online seatmap with AY as well as ExpertFlyer. It seems like there are still around 4 seats open so things should be fine, but it would be worth having a print-out with regards to what to do if they happen to oversell the flight in C one day...

Personally I'm happy to fly the regular AY A340 as I know the plane already, if anyone's on tomorrow's flight then it would be great to share a drink in the lounge or onboard. :)

I really love Finnair - what a great airline from the ground staff to the onboard service which is right up there with the best. ^ On top of that my last two flights with them had the most perfect landings, the smoothest I can remember in years.

Tomorrow's flight from SIN to HEL (24 Nov) appears to have been switched from the ex-AF metal to one of the "regular/new" planes.

This because AY81 HEL-SIN is delayed over 9 hrs due to change of aircraft. They're waiting A340 from SIN or HKG arriving HEL about 6 am Finnish time.

Your AY82 will be delayed too.

This because AY81 HEL-SIN is delayed over 9 hrs due to change of aircraft. They're waiting A340 from SIN or HKG arriving HEL about 6 am Finnish time.

Your AY82 will be delayed too.

I just received a call from them about a 3-4 hr delay. :td:

Personally I'm happy to fly the regular AY A340 as I know the plane already
I just received a call from them about a 3-4 hr delay.

Today it's OH-LQD.

Oh, they have good customer service down there SG, they even call customers in case of delay.^

...
I really love Finnair - what a great airline from the ground staff to the onboard service which is right up there with the best. ^ On top of that my last two flights with them had the most perfect landings, the smoothest I can remember in years.

OT - Yeah, there are some cool people working at AY. The other day I had a super smooth landing in close to zero visibility. Before landing the captain announced the weather as "a little foggy"...
After landing he went out in the cabin and as I was in 1C we chatted a little. He said in typical finnish manner (calmly and slowly) "we seem to have landed in sweden" as if he didn't have anything to do with the smooth landing.:)

AY is not consistently good (like on a 5* airline), some flights and services are less pleasurable. Hopefully your delayed flight still will be a good one!

Today it's OH-LQD.

Oh, they have good customer service down there SG, they even call customers in case of delay.^

I have gotten the call in New York, Bangkok and Hong Kong so it's not just in Singapore. Out of Helsinki it's usually SMS they send when a delay is known.

Arrived this morning from SIN-HEL AY082, plain was the ex-FR bird. I have just been lucky getting 340's earlier. Now I can clearly see what you are talking about when discussion about enterteinment system and overall plains being old and used. I had an upgrade, was happy to be able to sleep better than in coach cabin. Still, if I would have payed an business ticket I would have been very disappointed. The seats were old but refurnished with new light blue Finnair fabric. Entertainment system had 17 channels 9 was out of order, did not show-up even the name of the movie was written in top left corner of the very bad screen. The area where the drinks are hold were dirty, appr. 2mm of dirth and vired looking "seeds" in small holes around that. I felt sorry for Finnair, hoping them to able to work the situation out. If old 330 are used, I can clearly understand the willingness to use other alternatives to SIN.

Arrived this morning from SIN-HEL AY082, plain was the ex-FR bird. If old 330 are used, I can clearly understand the willingness to use other alternatives to SIN.

They are ex-AF and A340-300.

indeed OH-LQF (an A340 that was leased by AF 1997-2010) on AY82 this morning

I recently had the pleasure of travelling on one of the Finnair's ex-Air France A340's (OH-LQF) from NRT to HEL. The first clue came when our 1A and 1C reserved (and confirmed) seats in J were swapped to the rear-J at the gate. I guess they had had to change airplanes. Suffice to say, I wasn't pleased considering all I had read on this topic from this fine forum, but surprisingly I came home quite satisfied. The plane and the flight were fine. Quite nice actually. So it was indeed a pleasure, not a "pleasure".

Obviously the seats in business look a bit more worn out than standard Finnair hardware, and the red leather pullies for lifevests remind of Air France colors, but overall I'd equate the business class experience with the regular Finnair lie-flat experience. All the seats in rear-J are of the "first row" kind, with monitors coming out of the seats, so they were perhaps a tad bit less wide than the regular lie-flats are, and maybe the angle to lie is a tad bit steeper, but on the upside there was plenty of opea air in front of you in all the rear-J seats, as much as on any front row seat. (The front-J seats are spaced closer and in most your feet go under the seat in front of you, though, but overall very similar to regular Finnair lie-flat.) The fold-out tables and storage compartments in the seat were actually more versatile than the regular ones are. And there was a nice setup of snacks in the galley, shaving kits, moisturisers and toothbrushes in the toilets (which did not have windows, though). In fact, the compliment of goodies like this was far better than on our prior HEL to NRT on a "regular" Finnair A340 this time, which uncharacteristically sucked in this small regard for some reason.

The big question of course was the AVOD. I came on board fearing a channel-based setup, but fortunately the video on demand was there and worked fine, also including normal pause, resume, stop, fast-forward/rewind and resume later kind of features. In fact, I think the normal Finnair AVOD is worse in one respect: if you exit a movie, it does not offer restart, but always starts from the beginning (perhaps there is a feature I missed). This AVOD asked if you want to restart or continue where you left off, quite nice. The system is older and slower though, and with perhaps a little less content, but overall I came home very satisfied having watched one movie and some TV episodes. There were also some games. The screens were not that good though, they seemed to have some left-over touchscreen layer on them (not operable) and under the heavy window seat lights (those were unusually bright on this plane) watching was a bit harder than it was during the dark flight period. But overall this served me very well. Also during a visit to the rear, I saw the tourist class seats have somewhat smaller monitors and different remotes, but it too was a menu-based system looking the same. I wonder if it too has VOD now? It was not the old Finnair tourist class mini-screen with channel buttons setup at least. It was better than that. As a small note, the business class did have noise cancelling heaphones much like the regular J headphones, but with battery packs (on/off switch) and two-pronged connectors instead of the powered connectors. Worked similar.

One final nice touch came when the crew accommodated a special request. I explained our bump from the front to rear and asked for one particular appetizer to be reserved for one of us. Instead, the crew went all the way and changed their service plans to start every time from us at the rear (and then the rest of the rear-J). It was more than I asked (or needed), but certainly felt like a nice apology for having to change our reserved seats, so we were guaranteed all our food requests. So, fearing the worst prior to boarding, I actually came home feeling very much refreshed. Food was good, drinks and snacks plentiful. I even got some good sleep there. Before the take-off some noise travelled from the tourist class through the curtains and small walls behind the rear-J, but it was no issue when the plane was airborne.

Also, the exterior of the plane sported the new Finnair livery which was nice. I guess when you go in expecting the worst, there is a good chance you come out actually positively surprised! I certainly did.

So, comparing the three long-haul Finnair business class experiences, I'd have to say the lie-flats are best for day flights travelling with a companion. There is so much more room in front of you and around you. The regular Finnair lie-flats are a little better than the Air France version, but to me the difference was neglicible and the AF version is even better in some small regards. The J-AVOD is worse on the ex-Air France birds, but not show-stopper worse, just a little worse. Of course the Finnair full-flat experience is better for single travellers and sleeping flat at night, but the full-flat cabin is also much more cramped than either of the Finnair lie-flat products (regular or Air France) which offer quite a bit of air around you and for your legs. I always feel quite cramped trying to sleep in the full-flat.

Thanks for the update paxman.

The seatmap on an upcoming SIN flight already shows the AF variation.

Would you recommend I change to one of the "legspace" seats in the last two rows? I couldn't find any information about what they are on the Finnair site.

Thanks for the update paxman.

The seatmap on an upcoming SIN flight already shows the AF variation.

Would you recommend I change to one of the "legspace" seats in the last two rows? I couldn't find any information about what they are on the Finnair site.

Could you clarify which seats you are referring to? Last two rows on the plane or in the business class?

Could you clarify which seats you are referring to? Last two rows on the plane or in the business class?

Business class. On the online seat map it shows them in green and states that they are 'Legspace' seats. It is rows 6 & 7.

Edited to add: It seems the seatmap just reverted back to the AY one with 1AC shown where they were previously missing.

I suppose my question about what the heck are 'Legspace' seats still stands. Does anyone know? Is that back mini-cabin a better experience than the forward cabin?

Business class. On the online seat map it shows them in green and states that they are 'Legspace' seats. It is rows 6 & 7.

In our plane it was rows 7 and 8 respectively, so I guess that is the second Air France bird in your case, but I assume it must be a similar situation because we too had more space in front of us in the rear-J. Perhaps they too were "legspace" seats. I was seated in that rear-J cabin and actually checked out both the rows there (there are only two rows).

I'd say on OH-LQF row 7 has a tiny bit more room in front of the passenger than row 8, it is also one row further away from the tourist class wall and thus noise, so I'd go for that if choosing a seat in rear-J. In your case maybe consider row 6 then? The space in J in ex-AF birds overall maybe a tiny bit less than in the regular Finnair lie-flat experience, but on the other hand all rear-J are "first row" seats which means the seat in front of you is not protruding towards you, your feet don't have to go under anyones seat which means there is plenty of free air in front of you.

I actually think that rear-J may be superior to front-J on the ex-Air France bird I flew with, and thus maybe on the other one as well, although rear-J always has three caveats: people walking through it to tourist class on boarding (we did get our champange prior to takeoff without problems though), possible noise from tourist class (not a problem at all on our flight) and possible bumping to random seats in front-J if the rear gets commandeered to tourist class duty (obviously not the problem for us since we were actually bumped the reverse way, business was quite full).

Thanks paxman.

I suppose my question about what the heck are 'Legspace' seats still stands. Does anyone know? Is that back mini-cabin a better experience than the forward cabin?

Noticed the edit. Just to recap, in case someone didn't catch it from my reply above, "legspace" seats in this case mean "first row" type of seats in the rear-J of Finnair's ex-AF A340s. So the legs don't have to go under the seat/wall in front and the monitors come up from the seats instead of the back of the seat/wall in front of you. I'd wager this would be especially useful far tall people with big legs.

And anyone can benefit from the extra air in front of you face. Seems like rear-J is the place to be on Finnair's ex-AF A340s. Also, although there may be more disturbance from the tourist class behind the curtain, there is less disturbance from other business class passengers since the rear-J cabin is just two rows.

Great to hear that Finnair has cleaned the plain inside and maintained the AVOD system. I'm experiencing same bird in 2 week from SIN-HEL. The staff often really tries to do their best, as this time.

Great to hear that Finnair has cleaned the plain inside and maintained the AVOD system. I'm experiencing same bird in 2 week from SIN-HEL. The staff often really tries to do their best, as this time.

Just to clarify: They had painted the plane outside and it looked very good, but of course inside it did look more worn-out than newer Finnair planes. The seat plastics looked a bit yellow for example. But Finnair had changed the seat textiles and they had the familiar look and feel. No issues from me in this regard, it felt like a bit older plane sure, but everything worked smooth enough and certainly far better than I expected considering the reputation of these planes. :) The AVOD screens are worse than regular, but perfectly serviceable for me and the all-important video on demand was there. No outside camera though, that is a nice plus on the newer planes.

I wonder how sitting in the front-J compares to the rear-J in these ex-AF birds? I did see it was a little more cramped than the "legspace" seats of rear-J because your feet go under the seat in front, but overall it looked very similar space-wise to what a regular Finnair lie-flat business cabin looks like. Maybe slightly less space, but not a major difference in overall feel. Plus the seats have small feature differences like perhaps more containers for small items and tables that fold in half unlike some lie-flat tables.

One more tip for people going business class on the ex-AF OH-LQF, a couple of times when starting a VOD film, it complained of content not available or somesuch error. Just retry again, it worked on first or second retry every time for me and then the movie played through without any issues.