Travel Health and Fitness - Training for travel exercise - climbing mountains

Will be in Austria next month & 1 weekend will be climbing the "Rax". The rest of the 16 days will be a LOT of walking in other European cities.

I'm thinking a lot of regular treadmill work - but also put treadmill on an incline in order to simulate Rax?

My problem is that traditionally I do both & then end up w/ shinsplits - or just do too much of one of the other or end up w/ shinsplits.

I leave June 9th, so have between now & then to figure it all out/do it.

So from the serious runners/walkers/climbers in FT, any input?

Cheers.

The keys to avoiding shin splints are:


proper shoes (and replacing them every 300-400 miles)
don't go too intense too fast (increase distance/duration/incline by at most 10% a week)
take rest days


I know those last 2 don't fit well with your timeline, but better to get some training in properly than to limp around Europe on shin splints! ^

The shoes I've got & do replace. The 2nd I usually blow. The 3rd is forced when I blow # 2. I'm thinking if I do longer distance first on treadmill & add incline maybe the last week when I'm used to longer distance.

Cheers.

I don't suppose you have 'stair mills' at your gym? Not 'stairclimbers', these actually look like mini-escalators with 4-5 steps. I do a lot of hiking and backpacking and I find the stairs are a more suitable workout. There are a variety of programs (speed, intervals, etc).

I don't know why, but I often get 'tight' spots on my ankles (not shin splints, but something similar) until I'm warmed up when I'm walking/jogging/running - on the treadmill or outside. It's a real drag because it takes me 50-55 minutes to hit my stride and really be warmed up. Doesn't matter what the terrain is - flat, rolling hills, etc. Anyway, for some reason I never have problems on the 'stair mill'.

You might also try intervals on the treadmill - flat/hill, or mixing up the treadmill with an elliptical. Figure out roughly how long it takes for the shin splints to set in, then shift machines before that.

Climbing in Austria! I envy you!

Are you in good shape

Balance work: stepping up and down on a platform with a weight in one hand (weighted backpack optional).

I'll check for a stair mill. Although I've always hated stair work.

My figuring out the when the mix of incline/intervals is wrong is when I end up w/ shin splints LOL. But I'll add a small amount at the beginning & then add more before I leave. But we're talking only a 3-week 'training' period.

Of course worse case I could wimp out & take the cable car :p :D.

Cheers.

How long of a climb are you thinking? 2 hours, 2 days?

I've done a couple of climbs...both shorter here in the Phoenix area (Camelback Mountain, some down/up the Grand Canyon) as well as a little longer (something like 6-8 hours up Fuji). I did absolutely no training for any of them.

I think the more critical thing is recovery after. Take some pain killers, have some Biofreeze handy, take some KT Tape with you, stretch, ice (an ice bath would probably be great), and if you can take it easy the day after. Maybe some light walking, but nothing overly strenuous.

The day after I did Fuji (did it as a Sat-Sun overnight), I went to Tokyo Disneyland :D

How long of a climb are you thinking? 2 hours, 2 days?

I've done a couple of climbs...both shorter here in the Phoenix area (Camelback Mountain, some down/up the Grand Canyon) as well as a little longer (something like 6-8 hours up Fuji). I did absolutely no training for any of them.

I think the more critical thing is recovery after. Take some pain killers, have some Biofreeze handy, take some KT Tape with you, stretch, ice (an ice bath would probably be great), and if you can take it easy the day after. Maybe some light walking, but nothing overly strenuous.

The day after I did Fuji (did it as a Sat-Sun overnight), I went to Tokyo Disneyland :D

Oh, Camelback, one of my absolute favorite places! I did it 3 times in a row once!

Sharon, I don't do this as a rule, but you might consider taking a couple ibuprofens before hiking. I don't know how your knee is doing now, but taking an IB or 2 before hiking helps prevent the inflammation that might develop (instead of trying to get rid of it afterwards).

Hope you're going to do a trip report or at least post some photos!

Info re: Rex with a couple of photos:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rax

The email I received regarding this part of my trip says we leave Sat am & return Sunday aft. So from that, and going from memory when I did this during college, it's several hours each day. I do remember that when we did it during college days it snowed - in June :eek: I've not done any altitude climbing in years, although obviously skiing I get some altitude exercise.

I don't have the full schedule for the Monday, so no idea on activities then.

I'll stock up on ibuprophen, biofreeze, etc.

Cheers.

Info re: Rex with a couple of photos:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rax

The email I received regarding this part of my trip says we leave Sat am & return Sunday aft. So from that, and going from memory when I did this during college, it's several hours each day. I do remember that when we did it during college days it snowed - in June :eek: I've not done any altitude climbing in years, although obviously skiing I get some altitude exercise.

I don't have the full schedule for the Monday, so no idea on activities then.

I'll stock up on ibuprophen, biofreeze, etc.

Cheers.

That looks stunning. May I go, too, Sharon????

I don't suppose you have 'stair mills' at your gym? Not 'stairclimbers', these actually look like mini-escalators with 4-5 steps. I do a lot of hiking and backpacking and I find the stairs are a more suitable workout. There are a variety of programs (speed, intervals, etc).



AHHHH the stairmill. I HATE that thing ;)

I used it a few years ago to train for a hike also. I went to the gym in my hiking shoes with a pack (Yeah I'm that guy) and hit the stairmill. Worked like a champ.

AHHHH the stairmill. I HATE that thing ;)

I used it a few years ago to train for a hike also. I went to the gym in my hiking shoes with a pack (Yeah I'm that guy) and hit the stairmill. Worked like a champ.

Yeah, it's definitely a hate-love relationship for me too.

I hate it when I'm on it.

I love what I get out of it.

Glad I'm not the only one who shows up with pack/boots to get on the stairmill! :)

I'm training for Mount Rainier and am always amazed how little some exercises prepare you for others. Ex. I use cycles in the gym and they just don't prepare me enough for trail riding. If the stair master/stair mill doesn't prepare me for the mountain I'm screwed. I live in Florida and there just isn't any climbing to speak of :D

I'm training for Mount Rainier and am always amazed how little some exercises prepare you for others. Ex. I use cycles in the gym and they just don't prepare me enough for trail riding. If the stair master/stair mill doesn't prepare me for the mountain I'm screwed. I live in Florida and there just isn't any climbing to speak of :D

The stair climber is actually very good training for Rainier, IMHO. I'm not talking about a little stairstepper - here's what I'm referring to:

http://www.squidoo.com/stairmaster-sm916-stepmill?utm_source=google&utm_medium=imgres&utm_campaign=framebuster

I agree, gym machines never really prepare you for the variety you encounter outdoors, but they can still provide a great base. And sometimes you have no alternative anyway. The stair machine is actually much closer to what you'll be doing on Rainier than the cycles are to trail riding. For hours, you really are just putting one foot in front of the other and going up. On the steeper bits, it can be exactly like a staircase because folks actually start kind of kicking steps into the hillside.

It's much closer to what you'll do on Rainier than an incline treadmill, IMHO.

I don't know what prompted you to decide to go up Rainier, but I hope you post a trip report afterwards. It is a truly lovely lovely mountain and an unforgettable experience. Just curious - do you know if you're going during a full moon?

Wow. Just thinking about it makes me want to go back and do it again!

And a really magic part is if you fly over it when you go home (I assume you're flying to SEA). To look down on that beautiful mountain, especially if there's a cloud layer and it is poking up through, is amazing. I flew over it 24 hours after I summited. I remember my first thought looking out the plane window was 'No way. It's some kind of scam, there's no way that's where I was!'

I hope so. We have a stair master and stair climber at the gym. I have been using the stair master to strengthen be knee after surgery. I have been using the stair climber a little more each time (when it is not broken) :(

Each year I try to find an “adventure” to help me get through the regular hum drum of work. It used to be things more oriented around “partying” (festivals and such). Last couple of years it has become more activity oriented. Some guys from work invited me to climb Mount Rainier with them. So I’m registered for the beginning of September. That looks like a sliver of the moon. I didn’t even think of timing it with a full moon. Maybe next time. :)

I'll post some sort of trip report.

Hijack over.

Each year I try to find an “adventure” to help me get through the regular hum drum of work. It used to be things more oriented around “partying” (festivals and such). Last couple of years it has become more activity oriented. Some guys from work invited me to climb Mount Rainier with them. So I’m registered for the beginning of September. That looks like a sliver of the moon. I didn’t even think of timing it with a full moon. Maybe next time. :)

I'll post some sort of trip report.

Rainier will be magic with or without a moon. Just curious because I didn't think of at all when I planned my trip either (no moon). After all, if you get a bright moon, you miss the stars!

There was a full moon on Aconcagua and they told us it was the brightest full moon in a hundred years. I could have read a book outside at 0300, it was so bright!

Well I won't be seeing any moons AFAIK. Heading over to health club tomorrow to hunt around for stair mill. Otherwise it will be treadmill on incline.

Cheers.

FWIW, I generally spend a lot more time doing lunges and step-ups (a bench press bench seems to work well for my height, as it's just a bit uncomfortable in height) when I'm gearing up for hiking season.

At least IMO, general cardio does me pretty good for the long days on my feet (especially done on uneven ground, to work my ankle-supporting-muscles and avoid shin splints), but the extra leg strength makes a tremendous difference on the uphill bits. Beyond even the strength training, I've felt like it puts my body in a better position to properly use my muscles to move up, whereas my hiking buddy is often exhausted at the halfway point because they're working much harder.

The treadmill on an incline just makes my heels/achilles hurt. :/

I have two distinct parts of my work out now. The stair master/platform (the gym have these stackable "steps") and joint strengthening. I had knee surgery and it has been a huge plus. Much more than I would have thought.

The Stairclimber (not the simple ones but the big ones) is the best preparation for hiking. I like to put a DVD player on top of one and just watch a movie and keep going. Swimming is also excellent (you can use a H20 audio waterproof MP3 player to listen to audiobooks) and some limited weightlifting helps too (hamstrings, etc.) as stairclimbers do not cover all the muscles.

I'm really having some knee problems, so I may end up taking the cable car & meeting folk at the top. I'm hoping not; going to play it by ear, but 6 hours up might be too hard on the left one. I'm meeting some folk tonight for dinner who will also be going, so looking forward to discussing the entire Vienna week of events, along w/ the Rax.

Cheers.

Talked to folks last night who have done the Rax climbing recently - well, took the cable car due to having artho surgery on knee. I'm still hoping to do it, but they mentioned it's a tough trail up so will make the decision that morning when we get there based on how the knee is doing. Right now it's swollen & I probably should see a doc when I get back.

They said what they did last time was take the cable car to the top (where the hotel will be), but that there's another place at the top that's an hour away that they walk to for lunch, and since it's at the top/isn't as steep, is more like going across & isn't as hard on the knees. So that would be 2 hours r.t. walk, but not at steep incline. I can live w/ that as Plan B. They said when they get back to the hotel the first of the students are just arriving to the top.

Cheers.

A couple of good hiking poles should also help take some load off the knee, and provide some stability on rougher terrain. Not sure they'd help much if your knee is still swollen, but if you feel pretty comfortable walking around in general at that point, they'd definitely help.

Back from trip. Ended up doing the cable car due to knee issues.

However, did do the hour walk from one place to another at the top (the folk who said it was level at the top were wrong - definitely uphill from place of staying to lunch place), but it was fine & did it 2 days, so a couple of hours each way each day.

And the college students said the walk from bottom to top was not a picnic (which I remembered, but at least they didn't get the massive snowstorm I did in college). The professor had a map for everyone: beginning steep but narrow, middle steep but wide, etc.

I did take pictures & it was gorgeous! I took several hundred pics of my entire trip, so it's going to take a while to get them all uploaded. Once I do I'll post a few here of the Rax part so you can see. Think we were at 1,640 meters (5,380 feet) at where we stayed. When I was in college we went higher. But for those used to not above sea level still a good hike.

Cheers.

^

Thanks for posting the 'end of the story'! I'm looking forward to seeing the photos.

Hope you're going to take some down time (!) and address the knee issue.

Was w/o electricity for a few days due to a t-storm, so haven't had time to get them uploaded. Will do so this weekend.

Cheers.

Some pics:

http://images45.fotki.com/v1428/photos/4/253544/9913239/vierax100-vi.jpg

http://images56.fotki.com/v168/photos/4/253544/9913239/vierax101-vi.jpg

http://images15.fotki.com/v230/photos/4/253544/9913239/vierax102-vi.jpg

http://images59.fotki.com/v222/photos/4/253544/9913239/vierax104-vi.jpg

http://images38.fotki.com/v1273/photos/4/253544/9913239/vierax106-vi.jpg

http://images15.fotki.com/v230/photos/4/253544/9913239/vierax107-vi.jpg

http://images55.fotki.com/v268/photos/4/253544/9913239/vierax108-vi.jpg

http://images115.fotki.com/v607/photos/4/253544/9913239/vierax110-vi.jpg

http://images110.fotki.com/v629/photos/4/253544/9913239/vierax056-vi.jpg

http://images115.fotki.com/v607/photos/4/253544/9913239/vierax065-vi.jpg

http://images38.fotki.com/v1275/photos/4/253544/9913239/vierax068-vi.jpg

http://images58.fotki.com/v156/photos/4/253544/9913239/vierax070-vi.jpg

Very beautiful! Thanks for posting!

Hope you're getting that knee looked at.

Very beautiful! Thanks for posting!

Hope you're getting that knee looked at.

Images are great (and were when up in the mountains).

About the knee. Nope, not until clients pay me. I have a $5K deductible.

Actually did a lot of bike riding (a few hours solid) last week when electricity was off for 52 hours & I rode around taking pics of all the damage. I was actually quite surprised how much biking hurt the knees! Who knew that walking would be better. I thought biking would be.

Pics here to t-storm damage:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/16733102-post72.html

Cheers.

Images are great (and were when up in the mountains).

About the knee. Nope, not until clients pay me. I have a $5K deductible.

Actually did a lot of bike riding (a few hours solid) last week when electricity was off for 52 hours & I rode around taking pics of all the damage. I was actually quite surprised how much biking hurt the knees! Who knew that walking would be better. I thought biking would be.

Pics here to t-storm damage:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/16733102-post72.html

Cheers.

Bike fit makes a huge difference. After I had my knee 'scoped, I rehabbed on bikes (recumbent and real) for a long time.

That is some serious storm damage. :eek:

When I tore my Achilles tendon years ago I found that swimming helped, so am thinking of going back to that. Shouldn't be too hard on the knees.

A suggested training outline for urban climbers in our Alps:

1. Start by conditioning your feet. Walk blindfolded through the local junkyard.

2. For added alpine weather effect, have someone also spray you with a water hose while walking through the junkyard.

3. Scree: Have your wife friends, or neighbors continually pour large stones onto you from your roof. Include a few bricks for realistic effect. ( Sans Helmet ! )

4. Rope/Belay safety: Using your best harness, have someone drag you around the yard, driveway, or neighborhood street. Repeatedly, and without warning.

5. Climbing: Select the highest building in your city and walk up all stairwells to the top and back. To gain the translatlantic jet-lag effect, do not sleep for a few days prior.

6. Repeat this again on the run, double-time.

7. Repeat this again now wearing a 45 Kg pack.

8. When your hospital convalescence is finished and you recover, return to step 1.

Good climbing and Bon Chance !

Great climbing/hiking training regimen! :D

A suggested training outline for urban climbers in our Alps:

1. Start by conditioning your feet. Walk blindfolded through the local junkyard.

2. For added alpine weather effect, have someone also spray you with a water hose while walking through the junkyard.

3. Scree: Have your wife friends, or neighbors continually pour large stones onto you from your roof. Include a few bricks for realistic effect. ( Sans Helmet ! )

4. Rope/Belay safety: Using your best harness, have someone drag you around the yard, driveway, or neighborhood street. Repeatedly, and without warning.

5. Climbing: Select the highest building in your city and walk up all stairwells to the top and back. To gain the translatlantic jet-lag effect, do not sleep for a few days prior.

6. Repeat this again on the run, double-time.

7. Repeat this again now wearing a 45 Kg pack.

8. When your hospital convalescence is finished and you recover, return to step 1.

Good climbing and Bon Chance !

I probably forgot one of those steps :D

Cheers.

Awesome pics. I think I might have to add that to my places to travel in the future.

+1 on the bike for knee rehab. I think my knee is as good as it was in jr. high school now.

Awesome pics. I think I might have to add that to my places to travel in the future.

+1 on the bike for knee rehab. I think my knee is as good as it was in jr. high school now.

Bike fit is really important. I'm not sure, but I think knee problems on a bike can mean the seat is too low or positioned too far forward/back. A very small adjustment can make an incredible difference.

Swimming is great as an overall exercise, but it doesn't do much specifically for the knees.

Absolutely. I had my bike fitted. I was mildly surprised how involved it was.

Too funny - I thought that bike fit meant you had to be fit/already riding a gazillion miles/day, not bike fit bike fit.

Saturday I rode my bike to the local fancy-schmancy bike store - aka, the one that sells Cannondales etc to have a basket put on the front of mine. That way I can use the bike to return/get books at the library, go to the farmers market, and the post office & save some gas $$, as well as just riding it in general.

The people were nice at the bike store, but they & their customers are very serious about biking stuff. I didn't have the fancy clothes or shoes, and have a 2nd-hand 21-speed bike (whose gears I don't really use), so I was pretty intimidated. Found out they have a biking 101 for women class they do, so if they do it next month I think I'm going to go.

It took a while for them to get the basket on because the bike I own does have some fancy stuff on it - or did. There's a spot for the computer & cables still are on for that etc. It was hot but not blistering, so I actually did ride the bike to the library, Hallmark, post office, resale shop, etc. The a/c felt good when I got back. My knees were sore though from all the peddling. I think I did about 10 miles.

Cheers.

Too funny - I thought that bike fit meant you had to be fit/already riding a gazillion miles/day, not bike fit bike fit.

Saturday I rode my bike to the local fancy-schmancy bike store - aka, the one that sells Cannondales etc to have a basket put on the front of mine. That way I can use the bike to return/get books at the library, go to the farmers market, and the post office & save some gas $$, as well as just riding it in general.

The people were nice at the bike store, but they & their customers are very serious about biking stuff. I didn't have the fancy clothes or shoes, and have a 2nd-hand 21-speed bike (whose gears I don't really use), so I was pretty intimidated. Found out they have a biking 101 for women class they do, so if they do it next month I think I'm going to go.

It took a while for them to get the basket on because the bike I own does have some fancy stuff on it - or did. There's a spot for the computer & cables still are on for that etc. It was hot but not blistering, so I actually did ride the bike to the library, Hallmark, post office, resale shop, etc. The a/c felt good when I got back. My knees were sore though from all the peddling. I think I did about 10 miles.

Cheers.

There's lots of articles on this site. Here's a place to start:

http://www.bicycling.com/maintenance/bike-fit/fine-tune-fit

Generally, the two most important parts of bike fit are seat height and seat position (forward/back). This is true for my grandpa's old single speed, balloon tire Schwinn and the bikes in the Tour de France.

Some bike shops charge quite a bit for a comprehensive bike fitting, but you can do quite a good job by trial and error.

I'd definitely suggest trying to raise your seat a bit. Start even with half an inch and see if it makes a difference. On your downstroke, the down leg should be pretty extended, just not locked out straight.

Saturday I rode my bike to the local fancy-schmancy bike store - aka, the one that sells Cannondales etc to have a basket put on the front of mine. That way I can use the bike to return/get books at the library, go to the farmers market, and the post office & save some gas $$, as well as just riding it in general.

Isn't that what a big back-pack is for? Or do you want to carry so much that you need both? :)


The people were nice at the bike store, but they & their customers are very serious about biking stuff. I didn't have the fancy clothes or shoes, and have a 2nd-hand 21-speed bike (whose gears I don't really use), so I was pretty intimidated. Found out they have a biking 101 for women class they do, so if they do it next month I think I'm going to go.

Was that in the US? It always surprised me how serious people take biking over there. Here no one looks bad at you for riding a big downhill MTB or race bike in normal shorts and a t-shirt, nevermind everyone just riding through the city in normal clothes, for whatever defintion of "normal" the person likes.

And yeah, I own three bikes that I use regularly and still don't consider myself a religious biker. I even have a car that I use once in a while, although mostly just for riding out to the skiing spots.

Was that in the US? It always surprised me how serious people take biking over there. Here no one looks bad at you for riding a big downhill MTB or race bike in normal shorts and a t-shirt, nevermind everyone just riding through the city in normal clothes, for whatever defintion of "normal" the person likes.

Depends where you are, and things are definitely shifting (a good thing, IMHO).

For a while, the bike shops were really trending high-end technical, but at least where I live, more bike shops are paying attention to low-key urban, family and recreational cyclists. Not all shops - we have one that is dedicated solely to hard-core triathletes, for example, but they are around.

Isn't that what a big back-pack is for? Or do you want to carry so much that you need both? :)

I don't own a backpack. The basket will be fine. It's also removable.

Depends where you are, and things are definitely shifting (a good thing, IMHO).

For a while, the bike shops were really trending high-end technical, but at least where I live, more bike shops are paying attention to low-key urban, family and recreational cyclists. Not all shops - we have one that is dedicated solely to hard-core triathletes, for example, but they are around.

We've got the high-end one I went to & I just noticed one the other day that's more low-key urban, family cyclists. But if the high-end one does their biking for women 101 I'll probably attend that. I'm assuming if anyone else is there they're like me.

We're getting a bit afield from training for walking in the mountains though.

Cheers.

Too funny - I thought that bike fit meant you had to be fit/already riding a gazillion miles/day, not bike fit bike fit.

Saturday I rode my bike to the local fancy-schmancy bike store - aka, the one that sells Cannondales etc to have a basket put on the front of mine. That way I can use the bike to return/get books at the library, go to the farmers market, and the post office & save some gas $$, as well as just riding it in general.

The people were nice at the bike store, but they & their customers are very serious about biking stuff. I didn't have the fancy clothes or shoes, and have a 2nd-hand 21-speed bike (whose gears I don't really use), so I was pretty intimidated. Found out they have a biking 101 for women class they do, so if they do it next month I think I'm going to go.

It took a while for them to get the basket on because the bike I own does have some fancy stuff on it - or did. There's a spot for the computer & cables still are on for that etc. It was hot but not blistering, so I actually did ride the bike to the library, Hallmark, post office, resale shop, etc. The a/c felt good when I got back. My knees were sore though from all the peddling. I think I did about 10 miles.

Cheers.

That is great. I once bought a used road bike for $10. I loved beating people with $4000 bikes and $150 jerseys doing a century with a $10 bike and cut up t shirt. I would take it in to get it tuned up and the bike mechanic would look at me like "you must be joking". Tune ups cost more than the bike.

There's lots of articles on this site. Here's a place to start:

http://www.bicycling.com/maintenance/bike-fit/fine-tune-fit

Generally, the two most important parts of bike fit are seat height and seat position (forward/back). This is true for my grandpa's old single speed, balloon tire Schwinn and the bikes in the Tour de France.

Some bike shops charge quite a bit for a comprehensive bike fitting, but you can do quite a good job by trial and error.

I'd definitely suggest trying to raise your seat a bit. Start even with half an inch and see if it makes a difference. On your downstroke, the down leg should be pretty extended, just not locked out straight.

I just got back this morning from my bike fitting for my new road bike. The best thing anyone has ever done is put proper handle bars on my bike - stock came with 44cm but I measure a 39 across. I switched to 40cm bars and I can tell a world of difference. Thread hijack over!

http://www.squidoo.com/stairmaster-sm916-stepmill?utm_source=google&utm_medium=imgres&utm_campaign=framebuster


That's the one :mad:

Each year I try to find an “adventure” to help me get through the regular hum drum of work.


YES ^

I've done this for years. Marathon (back in the day), centurys on the bike....whatever. It helps me out a TON to have something hard that I'm working to vs just trying to workout with no goal.

Folks, even though I started the thread, unless bicycling is related to mountain climbing exercise, can we start a dif thread re: it? If someone's coming to this thread looking for help re: mountain climbing when traveling & biking doesn't help, the sidetrack isn't helpful & thus biking could be a dif thread. Just trying to keep the thread on track.

Cheers.

Sorry, I agree SkiAdcock. I do like to hear about the difficulties (and solutions) to the climb.

Got anymore coming up? I'm still training but haven't been wearing the pack. Too hot in FL. :td: Going to add it this weekend. Anybody worry much about altitude? I'm a flat-lander and haven't been higher than 13,000 ft more than a couple of times before. I think I might talk to my doctor about it.

On more of a serious note than my previous post, flying in to Europe and immediately heading off on any major climb or trek does imply a few risks. I am not suggesting this be done, but I have encountered a few traveller-victims of this over the years.

Being acclimatized here involves more than only altitude. Being well rested (and not jet lagged ), agreeable to the local water, food, and weather conditions are equally important. I understand and can sympathize with the " two-week " vacation timetable many allot for themselves to accomplish a good climb before returning to North America or elsewhere, but quite frankly the body here needs time to adjust.

We see this here annually even with very fit climbers from Italy, Austria, and even Germany. The film " Nordwand " although an extreme, is a good example how microclimes can differ dramtically by altitude,and change quickly in short period of time.

I think any trackwork, running or fast walking to build your endurance would benefit any climber, vacationer, or even air traveller, as it is at least a 10 hour flight to get to Europe. One singularly important item not mentioned in this thread is the use of a GUIDE.

These are licensed individuals who know the region, and the related hiking - climbing routes and degrees of difficulty. More importantly, by years of experience they can help you to achieve what you wish to do, with your safety and enjoyment in mind.

Depending on what it is I use guides, experience definitely has it's value. Hence me asking people on FT ^. Worse comes to worse I can bribe the guide to carry my pack :D .

I will be traveling right up to my climb and wonder if anyone has any experience traveling with their pack and weights for training? I'm thinking of buying water bags that I can fill up and empty. Probably cost a pretty penny. You know that 70lbs of water is about 8.75 gals? Dang I doubt that will fit in my pack.

When I train with a pack, I get the best results from packing stuff I'm actually going to be packing on holiday.

I've tried the water thing, but I can't distribute the weight the same way I do my gear.

deep body weight squats, slow sets of 20+.

need to go very deep, once you get the flexibility. need to go slow. need to increase intensity to get towards single leg (google pistol squats).

Just a small update:

The weather here has now turned to Fall, and in the higher elevations snow. We had a cold front that took most of the Alps to winter weather very fast. I was in Kastelruth, South Tirol, and the snow was considerable. The ski lifts are working !