Korean Air Skypass - Korean Air Refuses to Let Dying Woman Board Flight at Sea-Tac

Crystal Kim's daughter says she just wanted to take her dying mom to Korea for Mother's Day. But despite having two doctor's notes explaining that her mom's terminal breast cancer wouldn't pose a problem in transit, Korean Air still wouldn't let the woman board a flight at Sea-Tac.

KING-5 reports that when Crystal Kim and her daughter Mimi showed up at Sea-Tac over the weekend, they were told by Korean Air agents that Crystal looked too frail and weak to fly.

http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2011/05/korean_air_refuses_to_let_dyin.php

Yes that's the norm... cos anything can happen in flight and the airline is liable. The only airline I know that will allow anyone in any condition fly to the 'motherland' is El Al. I was on a flight many years ago when someone boarded in a stretcher with oxygen tanks etc. He was on his way home to Toronto after visiting Israel 'one last time'... and you know what? He died half way into the flight! Flight continued onto Canada without much incident...

Well, the wife got hysterical halfway through and had to be subdued by the flight attendant.. but that's another story in itself. It was like a scene from 'Fawlty Towers- Airplane style' !

Saw that on the news last night. A shame, but that is a long flight. I can certainly appreciate why the airline might have declined to let the woman fly.

I can appreciate why they might not want to fly her but (and I have only heard one side of the story), if they told her she needed a note, she brought a note and then got another note based on their request and they still wouldn't let her fly, they look pretty bad.

Mike

this woman uses no oxygen, or other medical devices. She just wanted to fly and had two doctors certifying her ability to fly. Korean air refused. This story has gone international and is a PR nightmare for Korean air. Delta today offered this lady two business class tix and they are on their way to Korea. Delta is benefiting for doing the right thing.

BTW Korean airs excuse is that if the woman died in flight other psgrs would be traumatized. This was their only rational. Korean air has hired a pr firm in Seattle as they have not yet refunded the ticket price after refusing them two days in a row the ability to fly home.

If this woman was carrying a note from a physician and on top of that did not have any respiratory illness or complications (suggested by no oxygen tank needed during the flight), KE must have overreacted. This is airline bullying the passenger almost at its extreme. If this passenger really traveled on DL and made it to Korea safely, I am not very disappointed with the KE and its agent in SEA.

Now, for those taking sides with the airline, think about yourself (or your loved one) in such situation. I really don't have much sympathy for airlines bullying passengers around with their rules, etc. For instance, while I was clearly entitled to go to London, LH agent in FRA almost denied me boarding because she thought visa was required for me to visit (my passport does not require a visa to England and it's all clearly written in the info pages which agents use to determine visa requirement) back in 2007. I would have missed my connecting flight if I didn't get on the LH flight from FRA and basically it was left at the agent's 'interpretation' of the rules.

I was able to argue my case by clearly knowing the rules and directing the agent to review the visa info page, but had it been an average or even non-average flier, they could easily have been denied boarding.

In the end, I really don't have any sympathy for airlines...

Well, that's pretty cool Delta is flying her business class (particularly if they offered a free upgrade or flight in addition to clearance). Korean Air certainly doesn't look very good in the press. Hope she makes the trip without complication or additional stress. I suspect she has other priorities (all things considered).

NBC News video (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/vp/43015249#42979428)

I'm imposing a personal sanction on KE. No KE rev flights for one year. :D
Nicely done DL, BTW.

NBC News video (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/vp/43015249#42979428)

I'm imposing a personal sanction on KE. No KE rev flights for one year. :D
Nicely done DL, BTW.

Looking at the video, the woman looks fine and perfectly fit to travel! Of course, she doesn't look healthy, but no where close to immediate death situation which the possible situation that could happen during flight described by KE agents! Now, calling police is just absolute disgrace! It's one thing to insult and crush someone's hope to return home for the last time in her life, but it's completely morally inappropriate to humiliate them by calling police. What kind of security thread did this person impose on KE and the airport?

This is a classic case of airlines bullying passengers around. Real sad, but I am glad that she got on a more comfortable DL flight. If I was there and I saw this situation happening, I'd probably offer her to upgrade using miles (if I had the miles ;)).

I refuse to fly KE even though it's my homeland flag carrier. But then again, they are part of Skyteam, which I never considered as an 'alternative' in my air travel.

Indeed, it is a poor PR for KE.
But why did Delta try to screw KE by commenting that they're competitors and will offer seats to the passengers?
If anything, OZ should have stepped in since they are the true competitor to KE.

I can appreciate why they might not want to fly her but (and I have only heard one side of the story), if they told her she needed a note, she brought a note and then got another note based on their request and they still wouldn't let her fly, they look pretty bad.

Mike

KE told her to get a doctor's note. She did. Then they told her to wait for approval from headquarters in Seoul. And then they refused. Pretty unprofessional of them if you ask me. They should have declined in the first place then.

Looking at the video, the woman looks fine and perfectly fit to travel! Of course, she doesn't look healthy, but no where close to immediate death situation which the possible situation that could happen during flight described by KE agents! Now, calling police is just absolute disgrace! It's one thing to insult and crush someone's hope to return home for the last time in her life, but it's completely morally inappropriate to humiliate them by calling police. What kind of security thread did this person impose on KE and the airport?

This is a classic case of airlines bullying passengers around. Real sad, but I am glad that she got on a more comfortable DL flight. If I was there and I saw this situation happening, I'd probably offer her to upgrade using miles (if I had the miles ;)).

I refuse to fly KE even though it's my homeland flag carrier. But then again, they are part of Skyteam, which I never considered as an 'alternative' in my air travel.

I heard KE treats Korean passengers like garbage. But what do I know, I'm a Star Alliance loyalist all the way, so it's SQ, AC or OZ for me as far as Korea-US is concerned (I refuse to fly KE because a) it's expensive, b) it's overrated, c) plane food is plane food, d) I don't mind getting off the plane to stretch my legs for a while in transit, and e) I'm fluent in English so language isn't a problem for me-did I address all the reasons Koreans fly KE?). And KE is leftover alliance so um yeah there you go.

^ to Delta and :td: to KE. If they never intended to carry her in the first place, they should have declined in the first place. "Excellence in Flight" my ... (well she never got to "in flight" so well ;) ). Maybe it comes with "Incompetence on the Ground." Calling the police was totally out of line. I didn't know KE called the cops on them-maybe the hundreds of posters on Daum news are right....maybe KE does treat Korean customers like garbage. Cancer patients don't drop dead out of nowhere-especially ones certified by a licensed doctor to fly 11 hours. If she was that serious, she would have never been released by the hospital.

:td: on OZ too for missing this wonderful PR opportunity. They should have given her a free ticket, in business class (assuming they had a free seat of course). Then OZ could milk that for the next three years, just like the SkyTrax rating and the ATW award.

By the way, their ads look like they're advertising a high-end escort service.

this woman uses no oxygen, or other medical devices. She just wanted to fly and had two doctors certifying her ability to fly. Korean air refused. This story has gone international and is a PR nightmare for Korean air. Delta today offered this lady two business class tix and they are on their way to Korea. Delta is benefiting for doing the right thing.

BTW Korean airs excuse is that if the woman died in flight other psgrs would be traumatized. This was their only rational. Korean air has hired a pr firm in Seattle as they have not yet refunded the ticket price after refusing them two days in a row the ability to fly home.

I see their point, but as long as the woman is still ambulatory she has a much lower probability of dying, now if she was on a stretcher, with O2, needed an RN, etc I could see their rationale but using a terminal disease as justification for denial when 2 MD's say she is fit is a little over the top.

Although the ground staff probably had little to no medical knowledge and thought terminal disease=in flight death.

I think the issue at stake is KE policies that need to be changed.

I think the issue at stake is KE policies that need to be changed.

And KE staff need to be instructed not to practice medicine without a license. To ignore the two doctors who certified her to fly is tantamount to an act of practicing medicine.

I disgusted by the behaviour of the SEATAC KE agents.. just disgusted !

Now, Korean media also covered this issue as this lady arrived at ICN. She actually looked quite healthy and was very happy to be in Korea.

While I acknowledge that we are not actual witnesses to the story and do not know what sort of an interaction has taken place between the agent and this lady (+ her daughter), this still is a bad PR for KE. I am ashamed that people will look at KE and Koreans in general as not-accommodating when it comes to people with disability and are in ill health state.

My refusal to fly KE started long time ago when I realized their FF scheme was just crap (same goes for OZ)! Taking advantage of their own 'citizens' who mostly end up with KE because of the language issue and food, etc (the convenience factor). If fact, I am often disgusted by these same corporate tactics that large conglomerate 'family-owned' "Jaebol" companies (namely Samsung, Hyundai, etc.) use to fool Koreans. A good example is the Hyundai car prices that are sold in Korea vs. in the US. A lot more options in the US yet it's much cheaper. Alas, marketing issues, currency fluctuations, etc... many reasons can be backed to support this discrepency, but in all fairness, these big companies are bullying the consumers more and more as they grow bigger.

Korea needs a third main line carrier (not LCC) to 'naturally' regulate the competition levels. I hope that this 'new' carrier is innovative and creative yet efficient (be like Virgin Atlanatic, but run like Lufthansa) some time in the near future... this can happen - but it's only a dream.

I didn't know KE called the cops on them-maybe the hundreds of posters on Daum news are right....maybe KE does treat Korean customers like garbage.


She is American BTW, and thousands of comments on Daum (http://media.daum.net/economic/industry/view.html?cPageIndex=1&rMode=list&cSortKey=rc&allComment=T&cateid=1038&newsid=20110514005508186&p=SpoSeoul) are expressing anger at her (American) for coming to South Korea to take advantage of free health care. Now that Koreans have learned the whole story, many are wondering how KE can be her country's flag carrier and some are actually advocating the decision KE made. I personally think KE should not have played the ping pong game, but it was the right decision to deny transporting her. Also, it was good that OZ did not offer her transportation. It might sound mean but she came to South Korea to swallow up the public health insurance budget that all the South Korean citizens are forced to pay.



Cancer patients don't drop dead out of nowhere-especially ones certified by a licensed doctor to fly 11 hours. If she was that serious, she would have never been released by the hospital.


I understand that stage 4 cancer patient do get released by doctors often because they have no chance of survival, so can't they pass away at any moment? Anyhow, this woman should have just stayed in the U.S. where she can get far superior health care.

Korean air has hired a pr firm in Seattle as they have not yet refunded the ticket price after refusing them two days in a row the ability to fly home. Well, they had better hurry up and try some PR, as KE is getting savaged in the local Seattle press. A couple of crusading radio DJs have taken up this cause and are urging listeners to flood KE res lines with complaints. According to them KE has been dead silent on refunds, etc. and it's become a regional PR disaster for the airline.

...KE must have overreacted. This is airline bullying the passenger almost at its extreme. No, this is one check-in agent acting programatically, over-cautiously, and without common sense or independent judgment -- and now the bureaucracy of the airline has fallen in behind him and without regard for the pax's situation or the image damage. This is stupidity, not cruelty, although it sure reads as cruel and reinforces unfortunate stereotypes.

Now that Koreans have learned the whole story, many are wondering how KE can be her country's flag carrier and some are actually advocating the decision KE made... I understand that stage 4 cancer patient do get released by doctors often because they have no chance of survival, so can't they pass away at any moment? Anyhow, this woman should have just stayed in the U.S. where she can get far superior health care.

1. It is not up to an airline to grant or deny travel based on customer motive.

2. The woman is terminal and will not be consuming much more health care.

3. Yes, she can pass away at any moment, but so what? All the more reason to get her home if she wants.

She is American BTW, and thousands of comments on Daum (http://media.daum.net/economic/industry/view.html?cPageIndex=1&rMode=list&cSortKey=rc&allComment=T&cateid=1038&newsid=20110514005508186&p=SpoSeoul) are expressing anger at her (American) for coming to South Korea to take advantage of free health care. Now that Koreans have learned the whole story, many are wondering how KE can be her country's flag carrier and some are actually advocating the decision KE made. I personally think KE should not have played the ping pong game, but it was the right decision to deny transporting her. Also, it was good that OZ did not offer her transportation. It might sound mean but she came to South Korea to swallow up the public health insurance budget that all the South Korean citizens are forced to pay.


She's ethnically Korean. That's what I meant. There's a difference between a blonde and green eyed American and an ethnic Korean with an American passport

on Seattle news the lady and dtr made it to Korea met all the family and the mother is very happy to be 'home'. Korean air has yet to refund their airfare.

She is American BTW, and thousands of comments on Daum (http://media.daum.net/economic/industry/view.html?cPageIndex=1&rMode=list&cSortKey=rc&allComment=T&cateid=1038&newsid=20110514005508186&p=SpoSeoul) are expressing anger at her (American) for coming to South Korea to take advantage of free health care. Now that Koreans have learned the whole story, many are wondering how KE can be her country's flag carrier and some are actually advocating the decision KE made. I personally think KE should not have played the ping pong game, but it was the right decision to deny transporting her. Also, it was good that OZ did not offer her transportation. It might sound mean but she came to South Korea to swallow up the public health insurance budget that all the South Korean citizens are forced to pay.

I understand that stage 4 cancer patient do get released by doctors often because they have no chance of survival, so can't they pass away at any moment? Anyhow, this woman should have just stayed in the U.S. where she can get far superior health care.

1. It's not the airline's business to do discovery on their customers' motives.
2. Even I can drop dead at any moment. If KE's afraid of that, they should just shut down all passenger operations. And just transport cargo.
3. A terminal patient who's gotten a death sentence is not going to consume all that much healthcare.
4. If they have no intention of transporting her, they should giver her a refund. I personally hope KE gets its ... kicked in the Korean senate or something for this.

The chaebols' trusts need to be broken up and yesterday. Then again, what do I expect in the republic of corruption?

I will add this to the long list of reasons not to fly KE. And btw, Korean corporations and Koreans do look at disabled people funny.

She's ethnically Korean. That's what I meant. There's a difference between a blonde and green eyed American and an ethnic Korean with an American passport


No No No, the real Koreans whom are defined as those ones attaining South Korean citizenship regardless of ethnicity do not see in that way as you have probably observed in those thousands of Daum posts. As you see, Korean-Americans are generally perceived as chameleons who just take advantage of South Korea when they need but neglect it when they don't need. BTW, it is racist to say that there is a difference between a blonde and green eyed American and an ethnic Korean. You know they say USA is an ethnically diverse society with multi-cultures, or shortly a melting pot, all the time. So you should have not said that. If you hold South Korea passport, you are Korean. If you hold US passport, then you are American. If you hold both, then you can claim as either national.



2. The woman is terminal and will not be consuming much more health care.


Unfortunately, South Koreans who actually pay for national health insurance do not see in the way that you see this matter. Regardless of the amount she consumes, they are fed up with Americans visiting South Korea just to get almost free health care. Moreover, this woman was silly to comment that she would not leave the country until she gets completely cured when she arrived at ICN, and this outraged South Koreans as you can see in those Daum comments.



3. Yes, she can pass away at any moment, but so what? All the more reason to get her home if she wants.


her home = the state of Washington



2. Even I can drop dead at any moment. If KE's afraid of that, they should just shut down all passenger operations. And just transport cargo.


It's all about probability.



3. A terminal patient who's gotten a death sentence is not going to consume all that much healthcare.


Only in the viewpoint of those who do not pay for her insurance.



4. If they have no intention of transporting her, they should giver her a refund. I personally hope KE gets its ... kicked in the Korean senate or something for this.


What is likely going to be kicked in the South Korean Assembly from this incident is not KE, but South Korean national health law. As you see Daum comments for this news, people are furiously criticizing the law, not KE.

Nevertheless I do agree that KE should have given her a refund promptly. The best way to handle this incident would have been immediately refunding upon first check-in without the ping pong game which fired up the whole incident. In addition to the refund, they should have given a hundred or a couple of hundred bucks per each pax as a gesture of sympathy. Then they probably have kept their mouth shut, and there would not have been a brawl over the media. I even saw this news on MSN's homepage.

She is American BTW, and thousands of comments on Daum (http://media.daum.net/economic/industry/view.html?cPageIndex=1&rMode=list&cSortKey=rc&allComment=T&cateid=1038&newsid=20110514005508186&p=SpoSeoul) are expressing anger at her (American) for coming to South Korea to take advantage of free health care. Now that Koreans have learned the whole story, many are wondering how KE can be her country's flag carrier and some are actually advocating the decision KE made. I personally think KE should not have played the ping pong game, but it was the right decision to deny transporting her. Also, it was good that OZ did not offer her transportation. It might sound mean but she came to South Korea to swallow up the public health insurance budget that all the South Korean citizens are forced to pay.


I understand that stage 4 cancer patient do get released by doctors often because they have no chance of survival, so can't they pass away at any moment? Anyhow, this woman should have just stayed in the U.S. where she can get far superior health care.

Her illness and her motive of returning to her birth country is irrelevant to how KE treated her as others have pointed out.

On the other hand, I do agree that many Korean-americans do come back to Korea to take advantage of the free health care as it's relatively easy to obtain a foreigner permit and as soon as you get one, your healtcare is covered. It's not just this lady (though we can only suspect this from her comment made to the Korean reporters that "I intend to return once I am cured") but many many many foreigners who come to Korea to teach English (unofficially) do end up being covered. There is a serious flaw in this area of the law and it is certainly causing a lot of financial problems as the National Health Insurance company is already in big financial deficit.

Now, your comment about patients who have STAGE 4 cancer can pass-away any moment is also irrelevant to this case. If she had respiratory problems that is caused by pneumonia or infection (often times those who die from cancer, their actual illness that kills them is not cancer but due to loss of immunity and infection to simple cold virus or pneumonia) and she was in very fragile health state where could not even sit up on a wheel chair, that clearly shows significant deterioration in health and is suggetive of possible death. But based on her physical condition seen via video and pictures, she is in a fine condition to travel 12 hours to Korea.

Going back to the focus of this thread, one odd thing that is still puzzling (and others have noted this as well) is that DL came to rescue. DL, being the founding partner with KE for Skyteam, publicly doing such thing doesn't really help with their alliance strategy. People here say OZ was right to no be involved... but I think they are just as bad as KE to begin with. Perhaps UA or CO could have helped as they are the direct competitors for Skyteam and DL in particular. And they have a flight via NRT from SEA as well. I really have to wonder what DL was thinking... they hurt KE's imagine (not that it was good to begin with!). That's not how partners/friends should be.

Well, I think that DL jumping in to help is better than the attitude 'we're SkyTeam partners so as a partner we don't care about you either'. If DL didn't do anything it wouldn't really have helped KE at all either.
It would have been a great opportunity for OZ or UA, but Delta beat them to it. Good for them.

Well, I think that DL jumping in to help is better than the attitude 'we're SkyTeam partners so as a partner we don't care about you either'. If DL didn't do anything it wouldn't really have helped KE at all either.
It would have been a great opportunity for OZ or UA, but Delta beat them to it. Good for them.

Delta did well for their own sake. these experiences are really just PR nightmare.
Follow the rule: get riped by public.
Break the rule: get fired. I feel bad for airlines =P

I removed several posts that had nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Please keep to the topic. If you wish to debate economics, who 'deserves' to be wealthy and other off-topic matters, please use the omni forum.

l'etoile
sr. moderator

I tend to look at thing from both sides.

(1) if the lady had died in flight somewhere over the Pacific, would the airline be liable? (doctors are never 100% right... sadly :( )

(2) Delta is milking this too much.... who's to say the same thing couldn't have happend if the lady originally was booked on Delta in the first place?

(3) would it have made any difference if the lady was accompanied by her daughter, AND a qualified inflight nurse?

(4) if no commercial airline will transport her, how much can a SEA-ICN flight on a medical evactuaion flight cost? Are there insurance that cover this situation? I assume the lady in question is a resident of the US and not Korea.(where she's originally from)

(5) the two doctors who originally issued the letters, were they really qualified in this field? There are doctors and/or medical facilities who are specially contracted to perform medical exams on pilots... wouldn't they be more qualified to judge the lady's ability to fly?

(6)

Don't know all of these but I'll take a guess...
I tend to look at thing from both sides.

(1) if the lady had died in flight somewhere over the Pacific, would the airline be liable? (doctors are never 100% right... sadly :( )

(2) Delta is milking this too much.... who's to say the same thing couldn't have happend if the lady originally was booked on Delta in the first place?

[...]

(5) the two doctors who originally issued the letters, were they really qualified in this field? There are doctors and/or medical facilities who are specially contracted to perform medical exams on pilots... wouldn't they be more qualified to judge the lady's ability to fly?

(1) I doubt it - the airline can easily prove that her condition wasn't their fault, and they could probably require her to sign some sort of medical waiver

(2) Presumably this wouldn't have happened on Delta in the first place. (We'll never know, but that's another message that Delta is implying)

(3,4) No idea, but my guess would be no for both of these.

(5) The idea behind the doctor's note is more just to say that her vitals are fine and she isn't going to die within the next 2-3 days or so. Flying may be stressful but in the big picture it isn't really unhealthy, and unless you have some serious respiratory condition (pressure, humidity changes) or really bad circulation (DVT and the like) I doubt that there are any dangers specific to taking one flight as a passenger.
Also, if Korean would want a doctor's note from a specific doctor, they could easily have said so.

Sick people fly all the time, and it pretty much always works out. And if it doesn't, it would get resolved quickly in most cases, rather than requiring two visits to the doctor and a lot of bickering.

the woman involved in this case died yesterday. Delta flew her home when Korean Air refused. The negative publicity has hopefully hurt KA's image in the flying publics minds. All the PR firms in the world can't overtake the negatives. The Seattle radio stations have played this up to the max.