Practical Travel Safety Issues - Very Recent TSA Experiences in STL?

Just curious if anyone was at STL yesterday or today and can provide feedback about how the TSA behaved itself during and right after the storm and how they are behaving today?

The Weather Channel is reporting that they are trying to shuffle flights to other terminals which weren't damaged or not damaged as much as Terminal C (?). Based on the overhead shots I saw, I'd guess it was an EF-2 or EF-3 which scored a direct hit. (FYI, my meteorologist friends call the biggest tornadoes (EF-5s) "Pavement Pullers."

I'm sure there will be a press release or blog post soon about how they immediately secured the terminal, so that in the event any ter'wrists were patiently waiting in STL For the past few years for a tornado to strike and be their method of entry into the airport, they were ready to handle it...

". . . while the TSOs performing checked bag screenings brilliantly weighted themselved down to prevent being blown away, by filling their pockets with heavy objects from nearby unlocked bags. . ." :rolleyes:

I know I saw injured folks getting treatment and found it interesting to see a tso, gate monitor and airline employee being the ones sitting in wheelchairs with ice bags or being treated. I saw no passengers in those clips, but didn't see everything

Just saw some video of the destruction at STL :eek:

Glad to see that nobody was killed, but it looks like the airport has a lot of work to do.

On a good note, I hope this destroyed the Chertoff Cancer Boxes® installed at STL.

I'm sure there will be a press release or blog post soon about how they immediately secured the terminal, so that in the event any ter'wrists were patiently waiting in STL For the past few years for a tornado to strike and be their method of entry into the airport, they were ready to handle it...

Funny you would say this about ter'wrists and tornadoes - I started a post earlier this week but deleted it...http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/1207249-tornadoes-versus-terrorists.html

Now if I could intuitively choose winning lottery numbers...I'd have a lot more time to become a FlyerTalk Evangelist

There are a couple of website videos from the security cameras showing TSA screeners running for their lives.

There are a couple of website videos from the security cameras showing TSA screeners running for their lives.

Yup..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJv8tJoF8-c

There are a couple of website videos from the security cameras showing TSA screeners running for their lives.

Can you imagine what would happen if a real terrorist showed up at a checkpoint? They'd all be peeing in their pants as they are trying to run away. :D

This one is priceless...

http://www.weather.com/outlook/videos/security-video-of-airport-tornado-20424

". . . while the TSOs performing checked bag screenings brilliantly weighted themselved down to prevent being blown away, by filling their pockets with heavy objects from nearby unlocked bags. . ." :rolleyes:

Here boys! I have a pics of CTX-5500 machines and got some minor damaged at CTX-5500 machines.

http://twitpic.com/show/thumb/4o8x0n.jpg

I guess the TSA forgot to pat down mother nature :D

I guess the TSA forgot to pat down mother nature :D

Nope. They didn't have a pat down procedures. :)

Can you imagine what would happen if a real terrorist showed up at a checkpoint? They'd all be peeing in their pants as they are trying to run away. :D
It's almost a shame that there wasn't a crowd outside the security area who they wouldn't let through because they weren't screened once that glass started flying .... I don't want to see anyone hurt, but it would have shined a very bright light on the stupidity of TSAs actions and decisions. Glad that no one was killed in the mess, and only a couple of people were seriously injured at all.

There are a couple of website videos from the security cameras showing TSA screeners running for their lives.

Trotting.

I'm not sure they can actually "run," from the video I saw and the general condition of the TSA screeners I used to encounter when I was still flying.

Trotting.

I'm not sure they can actually "run," from the video I saw and the general condition of the TSA screeners I used to encounter when I was still flying.

They didn't runs at the gates and they evacuated from the sterile areas. All passengers went downstairs at the baggage claims. They have to put the passengers in the shelter. I did not see this incident. Why the escalator is different way and not wrong side of the terminals.

They didn't runs at the gates and they evacuated from the sterile areas. All passengers went downstairs at the baggage claims. They have to put the passengers in the shelter. I did not see this incident. Why the escalator is different way and not wrong side of the terminals.

This is a little longer version of the video that features the TSA guys running for cover to the restrooms. In the background you can clearly see many dozens of PAX taking a direct hit while running for cover from what looks like the gate area at the moment the tornado hits. Clearly the sterile areas were not at all evacuated even slightly.

http://www.kmov.com/video/featured-videos/Caught-on-tape-Storm-sweeps-through-Lambert-Airport-120544144.html

This is a little longer version of the video that features the TSA guys running for cover to the restrooms. In the background you can clearly see many dozens of PAX taking a direct hit while running for cover from what looks like the gate area at the moment the tornado hits. Clearly the sterile areas were not at all evacuated even slightly.

http://www.kmov.com/video/featured-videos/Caught-on-tape-Storm-sweeps-through-Lambert-Airport-120544144.html

I'm of the impression no one was even aware of the Tornado Warning at the airport.

I arrived into MSP once when a menacing storm was approaching, but I was able to hear the tornado sirens inside the Boeing 757-300 I was on as we were landing. We did a quick taxi and deplaned.

Inside the airport terminal, you could also hear the tornado sirens from outside. Announcements were made via the overhead PA to take shelter and to stay away from glass.

While very few people did take shelter, many at least moved away from the big glass windows. I waited out the warning in the F/G club where staff also kept us away from windows. There were a # of diversions, but airport ops resumed once the storm cleared.

At least, in MSP, there was awareness of the Tornado Warning.

I didn't see any panic. I saw people either waiting right up to the last minute before evacuating or, as SDF_Traveler put it, perhaps unaware of the imminent event. And I saw TSOs return to the checkpoint after it had been hit. Pretty foolhardy, if you ask me, because at that point, no one can verify the integrity of the structure.

There are a couple of website videos from the security cameras showing TSA screeners running for their lives.

The airport was hit by a freaking tornado, why wouldn't they run for their lives? I'm sure you all would as well.

`I guess the TSA forgot to pat down mother nature :D

They looked in the wrong SOP. They neededl to look alt the one entitled
SissyrishOverall Panic.

Nope. They didn't have a pat down procedures. :)

:D

I guess the tornado wanted to opt-out :p

Pretty cheap shot to criticize anyone running for safety from debris flying through a building.

The NWS confirmed that it was an EF-4 that hit the airport. (EF-4 = 166-200 mph). It's been probably 20 years since I have flown out of STL, so I'm not sure how the terminal is laid out. But, I will say that I have never seen screeners move that fast.

The Enhanced Fujita rating scale for tornadoes. (http://www.spc.noaa.gov/faq/tornado/ef-scale.html)

FYI, my meteorologist friends tell me that the term they use for an EF-4 or EF-5 is "Pavement Puller."

Bio on Ted Fujita -- one of the true icons of severe storm meteorology. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Fujita)

The NWS confirmed that it was an EF-4 that hit the airport. (EF-4 = 166-200 mph). It's been probably 20 years since I have flown out of STL, so I'm not sure how the terminal is laid out. But, I will say that I have never seen screeners move that fast.

The Enhanced Fujita rating scale for tornadoes. (http://www.spc.noaa.gov/faq/tornado/ef-scale.html)

FYI, my meteorologist friends tell me that the term they use for an EF-4 or EF-5 is "Pavement Puller."

Bio on Ted Fujita -- one of the true icons of severe storm meteorology. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Fujita)

They must have raised the estimate on it. On the way to work this morning, the news was reporting is as an EF-4 when it first touched down but was down to an EF-2 by the time it got to the airport. Scary stuff either way. I've experienced an EF-1 and that was enough for me.

". . . while the TSOs performing checked bag screenings brilliantly weighted themselved down to prevent being blown away, by filling their pockets with heavy objects from nearby unlocked bags. . ." :rolleyes:

Many are already sufficiently weighted down-- especially in ATL. ;)

I didn't see any panic. I saw people either waiting right up to the last minute before evacuating or, as SDF_Traveler put it, perhaps unaware of the imminent event. And I saw TSOs return to the checkpoint after it had been hit. Pretty foolhardy, if you ask me, because at that point, no one can verify the integrity of the structure.

Well, it isn't like they take an IQ test to become a TSO.

Pretty cheap shot to criticize anyone running for safety from debris flying through a building.

This is TS&S. @:-)

But, I will say that I have never seen screeners move that fast.

That's for sure!

:D

I guess the tornado wanted to opt-out :p

Nope, they didn't go through the body scanners.

They must have raised the estimate on it. On the way to work this morning, the news was reporting is as an EF-4 when it first touched down but was down to an EF-2 by the time it got to the airport. Scary stuff either way. I've experienced an EF-1 and that was enough for me.

"down to an EF-2" = 111-135 mph. Mrs Flies and I took a direct hit from an EF-0 (65-85 mph) last Saturday night (April 16). It uprooted a tree which crashed into the garage and ripped off some shingles. ...got my attention!

"down to an EF-2" = 111-135 mph. Mrs Flies and I took a direct hit from an EF-0 (65-85 mph) last Saturday night (April 16). It uprooted a tree which crashed into the garage and ripped off some shingles. ...got my attention!

I'm glad you and Mrs. Flies are OK. :)

The EF-1 hopscotched through the town we were living in, it passed overhead our condo and then touched down again less than 1/4 mile away. Wife and I were huddled in the bathroom on the bottom floor during the whole thing.

Pretty cheap shot to criticize anyone running for safety from debris flying through a building.

You're right. We didn't realize that this was the standard training exercise for the proper response if a clerk ever sees a real terrorist. Deafen the terrorist with girlish screams. Stun them with the sight of overweight slovenly porcine smurfs moving with astounding speed.

I am amazed the ......... lard ar*es could move so quickly - who knew!!!

I agree that laughing at people running from a tornado is in poor form. With that being said, it's simple human nature to gain pleasure from seeing someone who exercises unwanted dominion over you being controlled themselves by something they don't want.

I suppose that now, in addition to "Bravo" drills, we'll see tornado drills at the checkpoint.

This one is priceless...

http://www.weather.com/outlook/videos/security-video-of-airport-tornado-20424

Interesting that the TSA could find and release that video so quickly....

I agree that laughing at people running from a tornado is in poor form. With that being said, it's simple human nature to gain pleasure from seeing someone who exercises unwanted dominion over you being controlled themselves by something they don't want.

I suppose that now, in addition to "Bravo" drills, we'll see tornado drills at the checkpoint.

In all sincerity, a tornado drill would actually be useful in tornado-prone areas. It's pretty obvious that these screeners had no plan. I'm not asking them to protect US in these kinds of severe weather events. But, they should have a basic idea how to protect themselves.

As strange as it sounds, taking cover between the halves of the Cancer Machine (depending upon the direction the openings were facing) is not a bad place in which to ride one of these pavement pullers out.

In all sincerity, a tornado drill would actually be useful in tornado-prone areas. It's pretty obvious that these screeners had no plan. I'm not asking them to protect US in these kinds of severe weather events. But, they should have a basic idea how to protect themselves.

As strange as it sounds, taking cover between the halves of the Cancer Machine (depending upon the direction the openings were facing) is not a bad place in which to ride one of these pavement pullers out.

So instead of "BRAVO" we'll now have "TANGO"... @:-)

Yes, TSA should have a practiced plan to protect their employees from tornados. The checkpoints are exposed to other threats as well. It'd be better to take a all-hazard approach before the next unexpected event occurs.

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0K_LZDXp0I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0K_LZDXp0I)

Yes, TSA should have a practiced plan to protect their employees from tornados. The checkpoints are exposed to other threats as well. It'd be better to take a all-hazard approach before the next unexpected event occurs.

The TSA is a key component of the DHS culture that does not consider anything other than a terrorist attack. As a result, FEMA has to fight for its fiscal life every year or try to contrive a counteterrorism mission. I have personally been a part of some of the most absurd multi-agency DHS exercises you can imagine.

In fact, natural disasters cause farmore destruction than terrorist attacks, even the much-fabled stolen nuke detonation. The EF-4 (or even if it was an EF-2 by the time it got to the airport) did orders of magnitude more damage to the airport than anything short of a strike package of MiG-29s from the Al Qaeda Air Force.

In all sincerity, a tornado drill would actually be useful in tornado-prone areas. It's pretty obvious that these screeners had no plan. I'm not asking them to protect US in these kinds of severe weather events. But, they should have a basic idea how to protect themselves.

As strange as it sounds, taking cover between the halves of the Cancer Machine (depending upon the direction the openings were facing) is not a bad place in which to ride one of these pavement pullers out.


Actually if TSA had a tornado plan for those airports under such threat they might have been able to give some directions to people waiting in line who might not know where the more secure areas of that airport are located.

Is it a TSA job? No, but they are public servants on the front line of the war on terror and I can speak from experience a tornado is terrifying.

Actually if TSA had a tornado plan for those airports under such threat they might have been able to give some directions to people waiting in line who might not know where the more secure areas of that airport are located.

Is it a TSA job? No, but they are public servants on the front line of the war on terror and I can speak from experience a tornado is terrifying.

But they only concern themselves with that sort of thing when it comes to running the dragnet - er "discovering" something that might be illegal as part of their "administrative search".

I am amazed the ......... lard ar*es could move so quickly - who knew!!!


Putting the schedenfreude of TSA runnning away in terror...as much as the TSA seem to be the antithesis of fit, it's not like the typical flyer is any better condition.

Yes, TSA should have a practiced plan to protect their employees from tornados. The checkpoints are exposed to other threats as well. It'd be better to take a all-hazard approach before the next unexpected event occurs.

I am of the impression the TSA and others at the airport were not aware of the Tornado Warning, let alone the fact there was a "long track" Tornado heading towards the airport.

With the use of radar, it is possible to pinpoint exactly where a tornado, or potential tornado, is and its track.

From what I understand, a Delta pilot over at gate A4 along with the gate agent working the flight did not know there was a warning. He apparently knew there were storms in the area that may have tornadic signatures, but the pilot was unaware of the warning and impending tornado tracking towards the airport.

Additionally, other carriers had boarded flights with jet-bridge connected at the airport.

This tells me there was no situational awareness of the warning, let alone the impending long track tornado which was pinpointed on radar as heading towards the airport. If pilots and airline / airport staff were aware, why were these pax on the aircraft with jet-bridge attached?

Over in concourse E (WN) from the video I've seen, it wasn't until the actual tornado touchdown that everyone was instructed to evacuate and go downstairs. Thankfully concourse E did not take a direct hit as there is a lot of glass there and that concourse was packed.

Hopefully some lessons will be learned from what happened and applied with common sense.

I agree that laughing at people running from a tornado is in poor form. With that being said, it's simple human nature to gain pleasure from seeing someone who exercises unwanted dominion over you being controlled themselves by something they don't want.

I suppose that now, in addition to "Bravo" drills, we'll see tornado drills at the checkpoint.

It may be human nature to get that pleasure, but verbalizing that pleasure is a choice.

It may be human nature to get that pleasure, but verbalizing that pleasure is a choice.

You're right. And hence I will exercise my choice.

After seeing the behavior of the TSA clowns at STL, I'm just sorry it wasn't an EF-5, instead of an EF-4.

It may be human nature to get that pleasure, but verbalizing that pleasure is a choice.

Just like threatening "DY...D" and barking is a choice?

I'm waiting for the Big One to hit LA or SF just to see how the TSA reacts at LAX or SFO :D

Can't wait to see flattened NoS!

Just like threatening "DY...D" and barking is a choice?

Both of which I find counterproductive.

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0K_LZDXp0I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0K_LZDXp0I)


Some of the A.S.S.s have bellies that look like that turtle shell :p

I'm waiting for the Big One to hit LA or SF just to see how the TSA reacts at LAX or SFO :D

Can't wait to see flattened NoS!

STL has two BKSX.. Hopefully I can update the NoS list to say that STL HAD two BKSX :cool:

In all sincerity, a tornado drill would actually be useful in tornado-prone areas. It's pretty obvious that these screeners had no plan. I'm not asking them to protect US in these kinds of severe weather events. But, they should have a basic idea how to protect themselves.

As strange as it sounds, taking cover between the halves of the Cancer Machine (depending upon the direction the openings were facing) is not a bad place in which to ride one of these pavement pullers out.

A drill is a little hard to pull off in an airport, especially one that has true 24hr operations (don't know if STL is such an airport). There should be plans in place that have been tested to a degree. I'd be surprised if STL didn't have such a plan, but if they did someone was asleep at the wheel.

Disaster planning and testing on a large scale is a difficult exercise. The FAA mandated biennial disaster testing was a royal PITA. On the other hand, a well put-together and executed drill is a beauty to behold. And it's good to know if the ATCT ever had to actually pick up the crash phone, things would go smoothly.

On another note, how common are tornadoes in STL. We had oiur fair share and when we were making large capital improvements to passenger terminals, I was always thinking, "Why all the glass? This will be a freaking slaughterhouse if we ever get hit by a tornado.". Glad to know STL managed to prove me wrong.

I'm waiting for the Big One to hit LA or SF just to see how the TSA reacts at LAX or SFO :D

Can't wait to see flattened NoS!

Being as reactionary as they are and all, TSA will probably be doing tornado safety drills at LAX in the next month or so to demonstrate their preparedness to cope with the issue.

STL has two BKSX.. Hopefully I can update the NoS list to say that STL HAD two BKSX :cool:

Which concourse is that? What terminals? Where did you see it?

A drill is a little hard to pull off in an airport, especially one that has true 24hr operations (don't know if STL is such an airport). There should be plans in place that have been tested to a degree. I'd be surprised if STL didn't have such a plan, but if they did someone was asleep at the wheel.

Disaster planning and testing on a large scale is a difficult exercise. The FAA mandated biennial disaster testing was a royal PITA. On the other hand, a well put-together and executed drill is a beauty to behold. And it's good to know if the ATCT ever had to actually pick up the crash phone, things would go smoothly.

On another note, how common are tornadoes in STL. We had oiur fair share and when we were making large capital improvements to passenger terminals, I was always thinking, "Why all the glass? This will be a freaking slaughterhouse if we ever get hit by a tornado.". Glad to know STL managed to prove me wrong.

I'm not sure you could effectively do a real evacuation exercise either. A reasonable approach (I use "reasonable" when discussing the TSA with "an abundance of caution...") would be to develop a plan and do paper exercises and training. It could be as simple as placing tornado evacuation signs throughout the airport telling people where to seek shelter. I would want the airport managers to be in charge of this planning and not the TSA. The TSA would be participants as airport tenants and that's it.

Based on 35+ years in the military and in the national security and civil space ops world, my hunch is that the airport had not thought through and/or exercised decision-making with the actual decision-makers themselves. Often, real-world event response will fail because nobody ever practiced making decisions. STL could have had the best tornado response plan in the country. But, if they rarely, or never, exercised the plan with the real people making real decisions in a real-time setting, the plan is useless.

As an example, screeners scurrying around when it was clearly too late tells me one or more of the following:

1. The TSA was not involved in the development and exercise of the airport tornado response plan, either by oversight or by the FSD's disinterest.

2. Neither the FSD nor any of the other local TSA managers, assuming they were involved in the planning, had ever played in an exercise. They either didn't know what to do or were incapable of receiving the warning and issuing instructions.

3. The TSA never took this seriously and never trained the screeners.

4. It never occurred to the TSA to provide severe weather information during shift change briefings, so nobody on shift that evening had even thought about the fact that there was a tornado watch which turned into a warning.

5. The TSA had no procedures in place to respond to a tornado warning.

Granted, the Weather Channel video of the surveillance video is about 30 seconds long. However, it appears as if the only humans who had not taken shelter were screeners. That tells me a lot.

Some of the A.S.S.s have bellies that look like that turtle shell :p



STL has two BKSX.. Hopefully I can update the NoS list to say that STL HAD two BKSX :cool:

I regret to inform you that the backscatter in Terminal 2 survived. Operations for WN today were normal. I don't know about the Main Terminal, just about all of the windows were boarded up. Damage to buildings west of the airport along the line of travel of the tornado was truly awesome, I'm suprised the Main Terminal is in as good of shape as it is. There is still hope that the NoS was destroyed.

On another note, how common are tornadoes in STL. We had oiur fair share and when we were making large capital improvements to passenger terminals, I was always thinking, "Why all the glass? This will be a freaking slaughterhouse if we ever get hit by a tornado.". Glad to know STL managed to prove me wrong.

Safety glass is a wonder to behold.....

In all sincerity, a tornado drill would actually be useful in tornado-prone areas. It's pretty obvious that these screeners had no plan. I'm not asking them to protect US in these kinds of severe weather events. But, they should have a basic idea how to protect themselves.



A drill involving A.S.S.es would be a waste of time. These lard A.S.S.es lack the fire in the belly needed for leadership in a time of emergency. Plenty of belly, just not enough fire.

So when I first watched the youtube video in this thread I was thinking it was unfair to criticize people for taking shelter during a natural disaster.

But then I remembered this video I saw that came out after 9/11. It was taken inside a shop somewhere in Manhattan, possibly even a deli, I don't remember for sure. The shop proprietor went out and dragged a couple of people inside who were rubbernecking at the big black cloud coming down the street after one of the towers collapsed. He was really loud, brash, even a little mean to these people, demanded they stay inside, and told them not to dare open the door. One of the people, a woman, was complaining that she left all her stuff outside. Then the big cloud came past, and she went into hysterics, thanking the shopkeeper for saving her life.

It wouldn't be fair to compare the two videos, we don't get a clear view of what's going on in and around the checkpoint, there's no audio, and it's not like we see a grandma who fell and couldn't get up lying there while the screeners ran for their lives.

I just think it's ironic.

So when I first watched the youtube video in this thread I was thinking it was unfair to criticize people for taking shelter during a natural disaster.

But then I remembered this video I saw that came out after 9/11. It was taken inside a shop somewhere in Manhattan, possibly even a deli, I don't remember for sure. The shop proprietor went out and dragged a couple of people inside who were rubbernecking at the big black cloud coming down the street after one of the towers collapsed. He was really loud, brash, even a little mean to these people, demanded they stay inside, and told them not to dare open the door. One of the people, a woman, was complaining that she left all her stuff outside. Then the big cloud came past, and she went into hysterics, thanking the shopkeeper for saving her life.

It wouldn't be fair to compare the two videos, we don't get a clear view of what's going on in and around the checkpoint, there's no audio, and it's not like we see a grandma who fell and couldn't get up lying there while the screeners ran for their lives.

I just think it's ironic.

I've posted upstream about my speculations. But, when all is said & done, the evidence in this video is that the screening clerk staff had no idea what to do during a tornado event at their airport. Somebody needs to be fired, but, I know that's wishful thinking.