US Airways Dividend Miles (Pre-FlightFund Merger) - Big Announcement

US Airway's CFO has a planned "talk" with all employees tomorrow and it will "concern families and some difficult decisions..." we'll see what's up then I guess. Whats the big announcement about tomorrow? Any guesses?

Asking for concessions, probably.

That, or announcing that PIT is toast.

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Don't feed the trolls.

I agree. Interesting what becomes of PIT after US pulls out. I wonder who will takve over the PIT-FRA route.

Maybe it's that they're giving TransAtlantic upgrades to all preferreds again. HA HA HA HA I crack myself up.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by iflyPIT:
I agree. Interesting what becomes of PIT after US pulls out. I wonder who will takve over the PIT-FRA route. </font>

They (US) might keep it. Or, I'd expect to see LH on the route.

Between the cargo and several notable contracts, it's a huge moneymaker for them--they should rename the Envoy cabin on that flight the "Bayer Shuttle." (Siemens, Medrad, Demag, etc).

The hilarous thing about PIT-LGW coming and going is that it has huge local Envoy R&D as well (BNFL, GlaxoSmithKline, etc).

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Don't feed the trolls.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ClueByFour:
Asking for concessions, probably.

</font>

big time from what I understand.

It is being reported today in the Washington Post that he is going to lay out his case for concessions and the alternative of asset sales. Given the opposition the unions have been showing, going directly to the employees is probably the best option at this point.

Those interested can watch the webcast live at 1500 EST here (http://usairways.internetstreaming.com/). You'll need Windows Media Player. I'd suppose it will be up for some time afterwards.

Well if the same IT group does the webcast as runs usairways.com, then it is bound to crash during the webcast.

Phillyguy

&lt;sorry just couldn't resist&gt;

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US1, Hilton Gold, Six Continents Platinum, Marriott Silver

Hey Mike,

Thanks for posting the link. I wasn't having any luck finding the address anywhere else. Good job.

You Rock!

Mike

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ClueByFour:
They (US) might keep it. Or, I'd expect to see LH on the route.
</font>

With only 50.4 local PDEWs, why would you expect LH to fly it when US could route FRA pax over PHL?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by RicoWrite:
Thanks... Good job... You Rock!</font>

Hey, that was a really pleasant reply to read. It makes up for all the times people have called me a dumba$$. The address was e-mailed to all U employees yesterday and I have an "inside contact."

MikeLaw,
Thanks also for posting this link. I appreciate the opprotunity to be able to watch the presentation as well. This has to be the FT data find of the week if not the month! Also for anyone who might be interested, on the site, there is a Windows media player test. This brings up the US theme song. If anyone is looking to get a copy of the theme song, you can probably do that with this slice of content.

phillyguy,
It looks like they have outsourced the webcast because it is not being hosted at the usairways.com domain. Looks like streaming services being provided by a company called Beach Associates (http://internetstreaming.com/)

[This message has been edited by jetsetter (edited Mar 24, 2004).]

I definitively will be listening at noon!
Hope something good will come out!

Well, I think the name says it all TRANSFORMATION.


I think that US will try to turn themselves into a SW model.

Its on now....run it in modem function.

Click on the link NOW.. The message is playing under the modem link, 10 minutes early!

4,000,000 FFs.

"We need a better web site."

Holy 2%#%&*#&*(*. US is looking at options vis-a-vis the 757s and smaller/no first class.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ITRADE:
Holy 2%#%&*#&*(*. US is looking at options vis-a-vis the 757s and smaller/no first class.</font>

That would be the end of it for me.

70% of our flights last year lost money and we've got to lower fares this year. They say average fare is $115 and average cost is $140. I'm helping the hell out of their average.

totally new web site this fall.

To the employees, if you don't want to help controls, consider some other employment.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MikeLaw:
70% of our flights last year lost money and we've got to lower fares this year. They say average fare is $115 and average cost is $140. I'm helping the hell out of their average.</font>

$115 average fare? I don't believe it. Where the h*ll can you go on US for $115? I think the best price on the DCA-LGA shuttle is somewhere in that area, but I can't see that being the average. No way. Even the E-Savers are more than this. What a load of cr*p!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MileKing:
$115 average fare? I don't believe it. Where the h*ll can you go on US for $115? I think the best price on the DCA-LGA shuttle is somewhere in that area, but I can't see that being the average. No way. Even the E-Savers are more than this. What a load of cr*p!</font>

Per flight. Per flight.

SAN-PIT-LGA-PIT-SAN is four flights. So, that $199 special is about $50 per flight.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MileKing:
$115 average fare? I don't believe it. Where the h*ll can you go on US for $115? I think the best price on the DCA-LGA shuttle is somewhere in that area, but I can't see that being the average. No way. Even the E-Savers are more than this. What a load of cr*p!</font>

Remember that a HUGE chunk of your ticket is for taxes that US never sees. So a $115 fare is probably more like a $180 ticket.

BTW, you can get BWI-BOS flights for $68 roundtrip.

There is still no way that $115 is the AVERAGE fare. So to offset every $1000 fare there are 5 people out there paying $100 for a RT? I think not.

I'll repeat this:

"Figures Lie and LIARS Figure"


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by USFlyerUS:
Remember that a HUGE chunk of your ticket is for taxes that US never sees. So a $115 fare is probably more like a $180 ticket.</font>

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by HPTunco:
There is still no way that $115 is the AVERAGE fare. So to offset every $1000 fare there are 5 people out there paying $100 for a RT? I think not.

I'll repeat this:

"Figures Lie and LIARS Figure"


</font>

Again, most of the fares are cut by the fact that the fares are based on two segments.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ITRADE:
BTW, you can get BWI-BOS flights for $68 roundtrip.</font>Via LGA or PHL (no nonstops), making it come out to $17 per flight.

Considering my last two trips from SWF-MSY via PHL were $1200, I guess I am above average.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by rd7242:
Considering my last two trips from SWF-MSY via PHL were $1200, I guess I am above average. </font>

Hey everyone...

The average fare numbers are not round trip nor are per segment. It's revenue per passenger (not enplanement...if it were ITRADE would have had it right).

For example in 2002...US had 7 billion in revenue and 4.7 million passengers (one way, not double counted for cx) for an average fare around $145.

The presentation was largely at a high level, and did not get into very specific planned changes. The main take away points were:
*US believes that WN is out to kill them in PHL. The battle in PHL will make or break the company;
*US needs to enhance its product. Inferences made to direct tv and other entertainment;
*US needs to adopt competetive cost structure comparable to lcc;
*US is considering whether to be a 1 or 2 class airline;
*US will take some elements from WN, but will not copy them. E.g. will not shift to one fleet type or exclusively fly point to point;
*Major re-vamp to web site later on in year, gate readers and kiosks. Automation to increase efficiency;
*Simplified fare structure will mean less processing time for res and more productivity. I wonder if they will put in simplified fares only in lcc markets or system wide;
*The company often makes more money if planes are less full, but have pax paying higher fares. Emphasis also on the point that customers now demand lower fares.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ITRADE:
Holy 2%#%&*#&*(*. US is looking at options vis-a-vis the 757s and smaller/no first class.</font>

That's what I heard, too. I'd have no reason to fly them. I rarely use miles for tickets--almost exclusively for upgrading. That line got my attention!

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--Wishing for you safe travels and for me Row 1 on the A330.

Two reasons I have flown US: First class is free to a US1 and the CP line. Sounds like both are at least possibly going to be impacted. Ive sort of seen something like this coming. It has been harder and harder for me to justify flying US. Recently, I havent even tried. They need to make decisions, communicate them clearly so that people understand the company they will be dealing with and execute them quickly. The uncertainty alone will finish them if they dont. My uncertainty over how they would deal with SW in PHL has kept me almost completely off US for this year. This made it worse.

For those who listened in, were there any specific dates mentioned about any decisions?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MileKing:
For those who listened in, were there any specific dates mentioned about any decisions?</font>

No dates were announced. This was a classic Dave speach. Stale bread has a higher IQ than he does. Yes he can partially blame the unions for highly innefective work rules, but he should have realized this before during the first two rounds of consessions and asked then when employees were far more likely to trust him. Personally blaming everything on Southwest is not a professional analysis by a CEO of a company and gives no reasons for any unions/employees to trust him. Southwest does not have a personal vendetta against every US employee, they are merely going to PHL because they are a business and realize that airlines are in business to make $$$ and not survive on the peoples charity andan ATSB loan. He just doesn't get it and he really has no plan B. You cannot build on the unique "assets and strengths" of US by getting rid of FC and running from every city that WN enters. What's even worse, he should understand that convincing employees and unions to take additional pay and benefict cuts and drastically change the work rules cannot be achieved by giving a pre-rehearsed highly skeptical power point presentation that even a third grader could have designed. And saying that paycuts begin with him is complete crap; of course he's going to stay with US--if he took his golden parachute and jumped ship does he honestly think any company would ever employ him again? He's stupid, but not that stupid...

Umm, so ijap, are you saying you werent impressed with his leadership ability and long range vision.........?

I guess it is finally time to give up on this sinking ship. What is a CP to do?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MileKing:
For those who listened in, were there any specific dates mentioned about any decisions?</font>

Heck, no. It's not like this management is given to naming specifics. Ever. Even today.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by GadgetFreak:
Umm, so ijap, are you saying you werent impressed with his leadership ability and long range vision.........?</font>

I find the assesment above to be spot on (and in line with my own, FWIW).

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Don't feed the trolls.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by planeluvr:
I guess it is finally time to give up on this sinking ship. What is a CP to do? </font>

Depends on where you live and where you fly. For me, it is UA and AA. Ill see what happens as the year progresses. If US does something that looks promising, I might try coming back. If I fly more than I anticipate or US or AA starts looking squirrley Ill put some on NWA and see what happens.

My plan now is to hit 50K miles on UA and AA, then reevaluate. I will likely select one of those and go to 100K, then the other to 100K. Will depend a bit on where we are at as the year progresses.

I might add that AA coach is a lot nicer than US coach and AA first is nicer than US first. Also, effective last week, top tier elites on AA get unlimited, free domestic upgrades.

He made WN sound like the Borg. "Southwest is coming in May." "There coming to kill us." "They won't stop!" "They're the enemy!" "Southwest is the enemy!" Kinda funny really. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

From the map he showed, it doesn't look like the West coast is a priority.

Does his announcement of wireless internet refer to lounge access or inflight access?

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"Rows 50 and above are business seats for those with infants" - gfowler-ord-1k
SkyTeam - "The whatever's leftover Alliance"

[This message has been edited by ByrdluvsAWACO (edited Mar 24, 2004).]

Ahhh Man,
I have 30 segments YTD on US, another 12 already booked and it looks like I am putting my eggs in the wrong basket. I thought that the end was near but I really didn't think they would go 1 class.
Well, NWA here I come. I guess I will have to hitchhike up and down the east coast ( I live in GSO).

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ByrdluvsAWACO:
He made WN sound like the Borg. "Southwest is coming in May." "There coming to kill us." "They won't stop!" "They're the enemy!" "Southwest is the enemy!" Kinda funny really. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif</font>WN ate US's lunch on the west coast and at BWI. If they win in PHL it will be very messy for US.

I don't think the situation was overstated.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">From the map he showed, it doesn't look like the West coast is a priority. </font>There were 3 or 4 colors of routes on the map - any idea which was which?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by jetsetter:
...
*US believes that WN is out to kill them in PHL. The battle in PHL will make or break the company;...</font>

The first part of this statement is bogus. WN has no reason to kill US (like it's a personal vendetta). WN sees a weak carrier charging high prices, a very vulnerable market for them to exploit.
One of the reasons I read for WN coming to PHL is not so much to kill US, but rather to preemptively setup shop there before other low carriers such as JetBlue and Frontier (which is coming anyway) come.

The second part IS definitely true, if they can't hold onto PHL then their days are numbered.

Jeff

Hang on now folks, F is by no means gone. Airtran and HP (especially HP) were mentioned as models that would likely be followed, and both have an F product.

We have all been saying that US cannot keep doing what it is doing - I see this annoucement as having them finally warm up to this fact. There were many indications in there that they are looking to do what the customer wants, and, well, we are the customers.

As for "Southwest is the enemy", "Southwest is going to kill us" etc... Well, hello easy scapegoat. Obviously US's troubles aren't WN's fault. But he's right, they can't compete against WN the way they are now.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by kreeft:
Maybe it's that they're giving TransAtlantic upgrades to all preferreds again. HA HA HA HA I crack myself up.</font>

LOL

I believe if they get rid of F, they're dead. Without an F cabin what premium rev they have now will evaporate, as well as their current FF members. How many of you want to redeem miles for Y awards to Europe? Woohooo!

I don't believe they will be able to outdo JetBlue or best Southwest in the Y-only game. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gifDirectTV will be expensive to install and maintain, and they're in no position to think about beating WN in a point-to-point system.

Their best option is to become an eastcoast-HP with cheap, and simple fares.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by pdhenry:
WN ate US's lunch on the west coast and at BWI. If they win in PHL it will be very messy for US.

I don't think the situation was overstated.
</font>

Well, he poured it on kind of thick with the WN "resistance is futile" scare tactics.

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"Rows 50 and above are business seats for those with infants" - gfowler-ord-1k
SkyTeam - "The whatever's leftover Alliance"

Frankly if I were anywhere but CLT, I would know what I would be doing right now. The fact that I'm in CLT which is so dominated by US leaves me a bit confused.

Do I jump ship right now? Give up my CP status; give up direct flights; get acquainted with ORD (ugh), MSP (more ugh), or Atlanta (again, ugh); try to get status with one of the airlines that will always be connection based?

Or do I ride it out? I've burned 120k miles on upgrades to CDG in two months taking me down to 550k in my account. Some have suggested booking awards tickets on another airline with those miles, but that goes against my model of using miles as upgrade fodder when needed.

What's a hub dweller to do?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by dingo:
Frankly if I were anywhere but CLT, I would know what I would be doing right now. The fact that I'm in CLT which is so dominated by US leaves me a bit confused.

Do I jump ship right now? Give up my CP status; give up direct flights; get acquainted with ORD (ugh), MSP (more ugh), or Atlanta (again, ugh); try to get status with one of the airlines that will always be connection based?

Or do I ride it out? I've burned 120k miles on upgrades to CDG in two months taking me down to 550k in my account. Some have suggested booking awards tickets on another airline with those miles, but that goes against my model of using miles as upgrade fodder when needed.

What's a hub dweller to do?</font>

BURN BABY BURN.......

I'm a PIT trapee and I've gotten used to connections real fast. NW and UA are not that bad for me and those connections just help to make a higher status faster. I'm going to start using the other airlines. I'm only 16 R/T from US1 status again but it's time to start gaining status on the others.

Anyone wonder how long it will take to finally pull the plug on this airline? My 4 award tickets in October look unsafe.

I watched the web re-broadcast last evening and really had hope for the airline. I thought that Siegel was simply blowing smoke to gain concessions; however, my opinion has changed. It would appear that they are going to be in even bigger trouble if the numbers that were cited are correct. I welcome the competition in Philly from Southwest and Frontier, but unless US gets costs under control, they may go the way of Eastern, TWA, etc. I hope the unions are listening and both efficiency and costs can be improved.

Dingo, I feel for you. Being in a US hub has to make the decisions very difficult. Im in a different situation. I have been taking the connections on US to fly them. This has made it pretty easy for me to see what to do. Funny thing, I remembered why I started flying US in the first place. My wife is from PIT and we go there once or twice a year. She likes to preboard. Yea, I realize how stupid that sounds. It was the CP line and the unlimited upgrades that kept me. They dont seem as glossy now.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by dingo:
Frankly if I were anywhere but CLT, I would know what I would be doing right now. The fact that I'm in CLT which is so dominated by US leaves me a bit confused.

Do I jump ship right now? Give up my CP status; give up direct flights; get acquainted with ORD (ugh), MSP (more ugh), or Atlanta (again, ugh); try to get status with one of the airlines that will always be connection based?

Or do I ride it out? I've burned 120k miles on upgrades to CDG in two months taking me down to 550k in my account. Some have suggested booking awards tickets on another airline with those miles, but that goes against my model of using miles as upgrade fodder when needed.

What's a hub dweller to do?</font>

My exact sentiments. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Ugh. I gave up on US back when they went bankrupt and went to UA. UA out of IAD is almost impossible to upgrade, even as 1K (pleanty of planes where they don't even bother pre-boarding because everyone is Prem Exec or 1K). So, I gave US another chance. Looks like I made a bad decision.

After 9/11 all the airlines took the story of "AA saving $50K by taking olives out of their first class salads" to heart and cut to the bone. Most airlines have now figured out that they either are low cost or 'a cut above'. UA realized that the business flyer, often paying 5x to 10x a vacation traveller pays for the same product, makes it worthwhile to pamper these travelers. They've added back real meals, economy plus, etc... to provide a reason for FF and business travelers to use them.

US has been slowly degrading their product. Anyone who pays full first and gets a box lunch won't be flying US for long. I can understand the increased use of more regional jets, but moving from F24 to F8 on 757 was a step in the wrong direction - and now this announcement. Business travelers are going to be leaving droves. A guess US has just committed themselves to low cost. The problem is that US can't out-southwest, southwest. There is just too much entrenched baggage (no pun intended). IMHO their better bet would be to concede, sell the assets and let Southwest do their thing.

I had assumed that US was planning to become the low cost 'bus' to Europe. There aren't any US low cost airlines to Europe. They would leave some F to allow them to sell an Envoy product. Now I'm really confused. Their biggest problem is the alliances. Lufthansa and UA aren't going to want to code share with a low cost airline. Perhaps they should try flying to hubs and partnering with other low cost airlines - like RyanAir in Dublin and Southwest in PHL and give up on a US route map? Anyone have a clue what they could be thinking? Is there any strategy at all, or are they just ship without a rudder slowly sinking into the night???

Q: Please - anyone who hears of an offer by another airline to match 1K staus - let me know - my business is thiers for the taking...

Does anybody know what the status is for furloughed employees? I read an article last week (forget where) that travel is picking up again. Assuming this is accurate information, I would think US would hire back some of their furloughed (i.e. lower paid) employees. This would amortize some of their labor costs, wouldn't it? (Unless all of the extra passenger traffic flocks to the LCC's.)

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SS255:
Does anybody know what the status is for furloughed employees? I read an article last week (forget where) that travel is picking up again. Assuming this is accurate information, I would think US would hire back some of their furloughed (i.e. lower paid) employees. This would amortize some of their labor costs, wouldn't it? (Unless all of the extra passenger traffic flocks to the LCC's.) </font>


According to the presentation there will be further furloughs. With efficeny increasing (new work rules), and the internet site (to be replaced shortly) gaining in popularity, overall staffing should become more efficient and therefore fewer staff would be required.

Not sure what this has to do with amortization.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by pdhenry:
There were 3 or 4 colors of routes on the map - any idea which was which? </font>

Lord I hope I'm wrong, but I think the light blue were mainline routes, the yellow regional jet routes and the black turboprop routes.

I say that because if you look, all the California routes are light blue, the Air Midwest routes in Kansas are black and the Ohio Valley area is one big mass of yellow. (If anyone would like to double-check, the map is at 24:00 in the presentation.)

At the same time, I'm not sure this is an expansion map. It looks like a representation of their current service.

is there somewhere where you can still watch the broadcast?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by OverpaidSlacker:
is there somewhere where you can still watch the broadcast?</font>

http://usairways.internetstreaming.com/

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You won't see this on MTV! "US Airways Andean Theme Song" Music Video Part One (http://208.47.214.100/assets/previews/7129_3.asf) and Part Two (http://208.47.214.100/assets/previews/7128_3.asf)

[This message has been edited by The Lurker (edited Mar 25, 2004).]

Well I just e-mailed NW and asked to be compensated to gold status, if they agree (does anyone have any experiences with this?) I'm jumping.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by dwsnc:
Well I just e-mailed NW and asked to be compensated to gold status, if they agree (does anyone have any experiences with this?) I'm jumping.</font>

I asked AA in early 2003 and they said no comps for US elites but I suspect it might depend on the case (although the person on the phone said none at all). I would expect others to be a bit more flexible. AA was doing pretty much automatic comps for UA elites but stopped that from what I can tell early this year. They would likely in either case however set you up with one of their challenges. Let us know what happens with NW. Im debating on picking up a third carrier or sticking with AA and UA.

I asked for, and received a comp from UA to Premium Exec in 2004. This was quite easy, I didn't even provide hard data to prove my US status.

My mistake was using my DM number for every flight I took on UA....so now I'm nothing on UA. They did tell me that it was a one year deal, so it looks like I squandered my chance with UA.

If US does bite the dust, I would expect that the DM program could/might be sold to another carrier interested in our loyalty. I really have no other choice, but to continue piling miles up with US, awaiting fruition.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
If US does bite the dust, I would expect that the DM program could/might be sold to another carrier interested in our loyalty.
</font>

I seriously doubt any US airline would be interested in adding US's redemption liability to their own. They'll probably offer a mileage/status transfer to the top premium revenue passengers, and dump the rest.

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"Rows 50 and above are business seats for those with infants" - gfowler-ord-1k
SkyTeam - "The whatever's leftover Alliance"

I got Northwest and Continental to both comp me to Gold.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by dsingerUNC:
I got Northwest and Continental to both comp me to Gold.</font>

Keep telling myself, two airlines are enough, UA and AA and stay home occassionally, two airlines are enough......

Keep telling myself, two airlines are enough, UA and AA and stay home occassionally, two airlines are enough......


LOL! Telling myself the same thing....... :)

I seriously doubt any US airline would be interested in adding US's redemption liability to their own. They'll probably offer a mileage/status transfer to the top premium revenue passengers, and dump the rest.

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"Rows 50 and above are business seats for those with infants" - gfowler-ord-1k
SkyTeam - "The whatever's leftover Alliance"

Actually, I believe that Dividend Miles is one of the few places that US actually makes money. Given the fact that it produces cash, I'm pretty sure that another airline would "absorb" the program into its own.

Safe Travels,
Chris