US Airways Dividend Miles (Pre-FlightFund Merger) - I will still use US over SW!!!!!

Yes that't right I said it. I will continue to use US. I recently checked the fares and US did match the fares. Now when I checked the flight schedules there was no comparison. I looked at the number of flights to Orlando and Las Vegas, two of the nonstop flights. Well the "nonstop" flight, that's flight as in one, was at 8pm or so. The other three, that's only three, were direct or connecting thru MDW or PHX. If you want to fly nonstop from LAS to PHL you have to take the only, as in one, flight that leaves before 8am. The other three, only three, leave at various times but the latest leaves around 1pm and have one stop. I don't know about you but who wants to leave Vegas first thing in the morning since you never get enough sleep as it is in Vegas. I would sleep in on my last day and catch one of the nonstop redeyes. US on the other hand has mucho flights, mostly nonstop, throughout the day coming and going.

As for Orlando, they have fewer flights of course, but the schedule is a little more spread out with 3 nonstops spaced out to do one morning, afternoon and early evening coming and going.

As long as US keeps matching the fares I will gladly give US my business.

Just my humble opinion.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by sweetp267:
As long as US keeps matching the fares I will gladly give US my business.</font>

Yeah, that is a no brainer if the fares are the same why not go with the carrier with a superior schedule, assigned seating, F cabin, and a "real" FFP.

The rub is that the fare match is for limited seats and often lots of restrictions. But not always, when US has matched AirTran they had no Sat stay requirement PHL-BOS and PHL-ATL. I haven't delved into the WN matches yet but be forewarned you will need to watch out for gotchas. That said I am 100% with you, there is a charter airline that offers $69 OW fares ABE-MCO. I never understood the popularity as with a bit of planning one can fly US either PHL-MCO or ABE-MCO for a few $$$ more and get all the bennies of flying US (F seating, miles and status miles). OTOH if you are really poor and only fly once a year or if you are a last minute walkup the LCC makes more sense. The $64 question is whether US can continue to match WN at PHL or will it be a BWI repeat in which case US is in trouble. Or will it be a SFO repeat where WN will pull out because they can't achieve their gate turns in a congested weather delay prone airport.

I hope you are willing to pay SLIGHTLY more for a better schedule, better planes, better FF program and advanced seat assignement.

The old saying Quality, Service, and price, You cannot be the best at all three and remain in business, choose any two.

I agree US product is better, the question is how much more is a reasonable fare difference to make it worth flying US. The problem with all of the majors is they have been trying to be the best at all three.

What about the two day advance notice trip that US rapes it's customers on price? On SW, or other LCC's, you still get a reasonable fare.

Has US lowered fares in this category too?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by sweetp267:
As long as US keeps matching the fares I will gladly give US my business.</font>

The catch-22 is that having already beat the labor costs down to roughly the same as the LCCs, US still can't make money at those same price points, due to other problems with their operation.

So, unlike Airtran in PIT, Southwest can afford to stand and fight in PHL. Sooner or later, this bleeding will kill US. (I don't want to see that happen, but the signs are all there).


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Don't feed the trolls.

I don't fly on short notice. Never have and probably never will. I only fly for leisure. My occupation doesn't require travel so the last minute fares don't bother me one way or the other.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by sweetp267:
I don't fly on short notice. Never have and probably never will. I only fly for leisure. My occupation doesn't require travel so the last minute fares don't bother me one way or the other.</font>

Then you're in a perfect position to fly with US or another major carrier. But the only reason they can afford to give you a competitive ADVANCE fare is because some business sucker is extorted into paying 5x-10x the advance fare.

Somehow SW and the LCC's can fill up a plane with reasonable fares (regardless of advanced ticketing) and make money. US and the other majors can't do this profitably.

US will keep flyers such as yourself, but will lose the cash cows that support their ridiculous fare structure. This is a formula for failure.

Something you folks might want to consider is change fees. With Southwest, you can cancel your flight, even if the fare is non-refundable, and keep your money in the form of flight credits for a year, without penalty.

Because of this feature, I can buy cheap flights for weekend visits when fare sales come around (for example $76 roundtrip to St Louis, which I do several times per year), and if I decide not to go on the trip, I can use the funds to book something else. A $100 change fee, as is applied on US and the other legacy carriers, would reduce travel flexibility by a great deal.

Also, Southwest's frequent flyer program might not be "real" in the sense that one can fly to Europe on it, but with my Companion Pass, my wife flies for free anytime I travel, and that saves me at least $1000. (Earning eight or so free tickets also saves a great deal; the two of us can both fly free on one award.)

As for the departure time of PHL-LAS, from my experience I can guarantee that the 6:55pm non-stop will be completely full every night. It's a perfect departure time for the non-stop flight. Oversells on Thursdays and Fridays might be likely for those of you who (like me) enjoy volunteering to fly later in exchange for travel vouchers.

On a personal note, I'm eagerly looking forward to my PHL trip in July to watch the Cubs play at the new ballpark, enjoy some beer at Monk's Cafe and Victory Brewing Company, and maybe catch a metal show at the Trocadero. Philadelphia sounds like a great town, and now my wife and I can both visit for $176.

Happy travels to Philadelphia fliers, and enjoy Southwest's legendary service!

That makes one of you.

It has always been possible to get really low fares on the majors if you have a Saturday stay and buy way in advance. Of course you cant change once you do that. The difference with Southwest is that it can be whenever you want to travel and whenever you want to buy the ticket and you can change it. That is a huge difference. And as people have pointed out it isnt a small difference in price if you compare a totally unrestricted ticket. The problem for US is that the people who are buying those unrestricted tickets are going to in some cases buy on Southwest instead. And that is likely to be the end of US because those are the tickets they need to sell. Well, what they really need to sell is unrestricted coach at 50%-100% more than Southwest, and unrestricted first for twice that, but they arent that smart. I would easily pay 50% or 100% more for US, but not 1000% more. Not enough people will to keep US flying.

Another problem that gets lost in the cost shuffle is service. We understand fares, we know the ropes with flying. Many of us are preferred, we get separate check ins etc. Im a CP, if there is a problem I call the CP line and they fix it. These things arent the case for the average leisure flyer. If you would ask a lot of them what they thought I suspect most of them would say they prefer flying Southwest because the fares arent confusing (and frightening - if I miss my flight do I have to pay a penalty and the standard coach fare?) and they are treated better.

US needs to do a LOT more than add a few restricted, cheap seats to the mix if they expect to survive. I have found their fares to be very uncompetitive on many routes, and that is comparing to AA and UA both of which have a much better Y product. They need to fly their **** airline incognito in coach and then fly their competitors and try to fix it.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by GadgetFreak:

These things arent the case for the average leisure flyer. If you would ask a lot of them what they thought I suspect most of them would say they prefer flying Southwest because the fares arent confusing (and frightening - if I miss my flight do I have to pay a penalty and the standard coach fare?) and they are treated better.
</font>

If you miss your Southwest flight, while you don't have to pay a penalty, you do have to pay the full coach fare. That is likely to cost more than the $25 fee on US or DL, and certainly more than zero for same-day standby on the other majors.

[This message has been edited by JS (edited Feb 16, 2004).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by JS:
If you miss your Southwest flight, while you don't have to pay a penalty, you do have to pay the full coach fare. That is likely to cost more than the $25 fee on US or DL, and certainly more than zero for same-day standby on the other majors.</font>That's not quite true; if you show up for your flight up to two hours late, Southwest doesn't ding you at all.

I've booked unscheduled 20-minute connections and missed; in each case, they just put me on the next flight at no charge.

Once in Oakland I ate a burrito in the other terminal with a coworker taking a different flight, and then I strolled to my gate for a 4:30pm departure. Unfortunately for me, I was confused and the flight was really at 4pm, and it had left without me. I had to pay for a hotel room, but Southwest let me fly on the first flight the next morning without penalty.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by JS:
If you miss your Southwest flight, while you don't have to pay a penalty, you do have to pay the full coach fare. That is likely to cost more than the $25 fee on US or DL, and certainly more than zero for same-day standby on the other majors.

[This message has been edited by JS (edited Feb 16, 2004).]</font>

I missed a SWA flight once. There was no upcharge to go out on the next one...

The real issue here is that the prices US is matching are full coach on SW, or pretty close to it. Even if they did charge full coach, US can sometimes do the same and in that case full coach can be thousands of dollars. It scares people, I have heard them talk about it. And dont even get me started on the $25 change fee, that is plain stupid. AA doesnt charge that. If US thinks they can charge more than AA given their product, and charge these change fees when AA doesnt they have taken leave of their senses.

GadgetFreak hit the nail on the head when he said "They need to fly their **** airline incognito in coach and then fly their competitors and try to fix it."

The issue for US is not to match SW or JetBlue on price and achieve cost savings through wise management strategies like never cleaning the planes (see the thread on ink marks in first class). I forgot to get an exit row or bulkhead on a DCA-CLT trip last week. The deja vu of standard US coach wasn't nice. This for over $700. No wonder JetBlue is eyeing CLT. The only issue is whether US will last until their new planes are delivered.

For you northerners that have not flown WN much yet a couple of things to keep in mind. On U you have about a 50% chance of flying an RJ coach seat

WN coach gets you
Free ticket after about 5 RT'S and let's face it, domestic from Phil-LA can cost you more than a ticket to LGW
737
Overhead space
Pick your seat, strategically sit next to the hottie of your choice
Lines are a thing of the past Online checkin-kiosks
Free drinks in coach, try to buy a drink on an RJ
Happy employees
Companion Pass-Best FF perk out there, Your companion flys with you free even on your award ticket!
No walk up ticket more than about 300
Better food than U coach
More room/seat pitch than U coach
Less hub connection flying
Frequent service between cities
Some more convient airports HOU DAL MDW
More direct non hub flights
A simple web page where you can select the fare options you want
No capasity controls on award tickets, if there is a seat it's yours
Speaking of fares Does U know how to speak in two digit $numbers?
You can apply your non refundable to another ticket
No $100 change fee
Even on a short 45 minute hop flight attendants that will get you a beverage and come back a second time and ask you if you want another-No hiding in galleys
No feeling you were raped by walkup fares
Yes you may have to pay up to full fare if you don't buy proper fare bucket, usually about $20 more, but hey max fare is $300. It's easy to pick bucket on web at time of purchase.


Look I am a NW platnum, AA EXPlat and WN elite, WN is not for everyone, but they are doing something right. They now fly more passengers domestically than any airline, have happy customers and employees, and make money to boot.


[This message has been edited by MrMan (edited Feb 17, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by MrMan (edited Feb 17, 2004).]

MrMan,

That's a great summary of the benefits of flying Southwest. My two favorites are happy employees and the Companion Pass. No change fees is a close third.

Thanks for your post.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MrMan:

Less hub connection flying</font>

Which means no service to small airports. A turboprop or RJ is better than a four hour drive.

Southwest also has no red-eyes, making it useless for west coast to east coast trips unless you have an extra day to burn.

And forget about the hotties.. make it more like people with no front theeth stampeding into the aircraft to get a good seat..

Oh yeah.. let's not forget the club seating where you can check out the skirt of the girl before you with your Nascar hat on http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Southwest has its own crowd.. period..