US Airways Dividend Miles (Pre-FlightFund Merger) - Man Sleeps Through “Raise Seatback” Announcement ; Flight Attendant Calls the Cops!

Mrs. TPA us ff and I were on the last leg of our last flight home this weekend after a great time in New Orleans. Up to this point, all of the FA’s were in great spirits cracking jokes about everything from the snack basket to "Uncle Dave."

When we boarded our final segment, we both noticed the FC FA who seemed to be glaring at every PAX who boarded. No smile, no greeting, just a weird glare. Well, if this guy disliked his job, he certainly didn’t try to hide it. One drink service and a pass of the snack basket and it was off to the jump seat for him for an involved consult with USA Today for the rest of the flight. I really felt sorry for the coach FA who was responding to FC drink requests and cleanup duties for both cabins.

At any rate, we descend through 10,000 and the announcement is made regarding seatbacks, tray tables, etc. A man in his 60's in a suit coat who was across the isle from me (he had been asleep the entire flight) obviously didn’t hear the request. His seat seemed to be minimally reclined about one to two inches. At this point, the FA came up to the man and started jabbing his finger at the man’s neck and back! The guy wakes up and says "stop poking me." The FA says "I told you three times to put your seat up . . . when you’re on MY airplane you do what I tell you to do. The man very calmly replied "I just don’t won’t you to keep poking me." Thereupon, the FA says that since the man wouldn’t follow orders (the PAX had indeed fully raised his seatback) he was reporting him to the captain and would have him removed by security for interfering with a flight crew. I thought that the FA was just being a snitty jerk until he picked up the intercom and told the captain that he has a problem with a "disruptive passenger" and he needed help from law enforcement when we landed. If anyone was disruptive, it seemed to be the FA by his assault and aggressive poking of the passenger.

And sure enough, on arrival at the gate we were held until an armed security contingent escorted this poor guy off the plane!

In my nearly 2 million lifetime miles on US, I never saw anything like this. I’ve seen FA’s be consummate diplomats with unruly or boozed up PAX or simply straight forward like: “Listen to me or I’ll call the captain.” But never anything as unprovoked as this. Frankly, I would find this hard to believe other than that I was 3 feet from the events!

All of this leads me to wonder what standards apply in these types of cases? Apparently a single FA’s word is gospel – woe be to the passenger who may look cross-eyed at the FA.

What flight was this on? I was on the 1st AM flight (8:30ish) on Friday morning and am back out Tuesday night last flight (7:30ish) thru CLT...

Did you contact the airport police to report that the man was innocent? I would have gotten involved in that situation.

Do you have the flight attendant's name? I think it should be posted on this board on who to look out for on a flight.

Please tell us that you've contacted the police and let them know that our fellow passenger is innocent. And that you've contacted consumer affairs to let them know about the out of control FA.

Either that or tell us it's a sick joke.

Could you please describe in more detail what happened as the plane taxied in, and when it arrived at the gate? E.g. what sort of announcements were made, how many police boarded the plane, what was the nature of the conversation between PD/pax/fa, did the PD seem to interview the pax and the fa or other pax, etc? Or did PD seem to just believe the fa because they were a fa? There are well documented reports in the media of certain fa's overstepping their authority and doing things like this. Its probably not very common, but they do do this from time to time.

It's not like the plane is in jeopardy if a seat isn't in it's upright position. Most of the FA's are reasonable, but I've seen a few who are drunk with power and not good ambassadors for US.

We needed this FA on our flight!!
Mom and I flew home from NYC to RSW via Pittsburg on USAir and the man and son in the row in front of us (sounded French), had their seats reclined before during and after the flight. We could not get into or out of our seats and they WOULD NOT move them. I had to shove them forward and only got a dirty look as I asked them to please put them up. No FA ever checked at any time to have them put them up. And they were awake all the time....

By far this is a most disturbing report I have ever heard, please advise the board if you have a name of the FA and or any other information.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TomBascom:
Please tell us that you've contacted the police and let them know that our fellow passenger is innocent. And that you've contacted consumer affairs to let them know about the out of control FA.

Either that or tell us it's a sick joke.</font>

I agree. With all the great people on furlough, an a-hole like this ought to be fired. For me, there's a "there but for the grace of God go I" element to this, as I have slept through that announcement myself a few times, but have always been very politely awakened.

Not obeying crew orders is a federal offense enforceable only by the FAA, not handled by the local police. The local police will sure meet the plane, upon request, and take information from the passenger (name, address, that kind of thing), but unless this person has violated a local or state law, it's pretty much out of their jurisdiction. Once the police have taken the passengers information (and put the fear of god into them as well as inconvenienced them) then the airline determines if they want to pursue it or not. At that point the FAA is or isn't contacted, depending on what airline management decides. If the FAA is contacted they then take all the facts, as told to them by the airline, and decide if they want to get involved. Once they become involved (if they decide it's worth their time, and many times they won't) they then do their own investigation and determine whether this person actually is guilty of a federal offense, as determined by the FAA. Most times nothing comes from it unless it is a very obvious offense. Just FYI for those not familiar with the process. Nothing probably happened to this man, except that he was humiliated, inconvenienced and scared by the police (or they may have decided it was too obsurd for them to bother with and set him free right away). I would definetely send a note to US Airways to let them know what you saw and perhaps also send a note to the FAA in the off chance they were involved. This man should consider a lawsuit of his own for assault while this F/A went about poking him in the neck and body.

[This message has been edited by AS Flyer (edited Dec 07, 2003).]

This FA needs to be disciplined for his behavior. Another PR success for US.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by OrlandoFlyer:
This FA needs to be disciplined for his behavior. Another PR success for US.</font>

Uh discipline? You mean fired, right?

Ohhhh, I cannot wait for this to get copied and pasted over to the usaviation boards.

I'm waiting in anticipation for the post-facto justifications of the FA actions.

Then I want to compare the response to what this FA did to the response to the flight crew that stowed away a FA in a lavatory.

People like this in a customer service oriented job disgust me. I have seen many a FA let people who are asleep leave it reclined, or do it themselves. This guy should definately get the ax. What an AH!

Sounds like some of the crew on my flight to FCO in September. I asked one of the FA's if 2 friends of mine were working the flight. Instead of saying no, or we don't give that info, she told me I was drawing attenion to myself and to stay seated unless necessary. I really wanted to tell her that as a Gold, I was paying her salary and that if she didn't like her job that maybe she should take a voluntary furlough so somebody who wants to work can.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ITRADE:
Ohhhh, I cannot wait for this to get copied and pasted over to the usaviation boards.

I'm waiting in anticipation for the post-facto justifications of the FA actions.

Then I want to compare the response to what this FA did to the response to the flight crew that stowed away a FA in a lavatory.</font>

I did post it under the topic name "Evil FA". People over there seem, with a few exceptions, to be as horrified as the posters here. I hope the original poster will report this situation to consumer affairs so this can be dealt with.

TPA,

Just curious as to why, if you witness all of this sitting some 3 feet away, you do not speak up on the man's behalf in the cabin. If events are as you describe, it is indeed an over reaction by the FA and the poor guy could use a little help. Also one should contact the airline and let them know about this.

respectfuly,

Barry

In defense of TPA, I wouldn't have done anything, either. If the FA was acting that oddly, I wouldn't want to attract attention to myself for fear of being hauled off with the first guy.

I agree, I probably would not have done anything while on the plane either. But I certainly would have found someone from US immediately after I exited the plane and I would have definitely spoken to the authorities to let them know I was an unbiased eyewitness to the event.

It's sad for all the hard working people at US Air, but it is stories like this that make me think they are the worst domestic airline in this country. It will be a pleasure to see Southwest tear them apart at PHL just so this person can't be a flight attendant any longer.

Although I am sad to admit it, I do believe that this could have taken place just as described. Our F/As are, by and large, fantastic people who are greatly dedicated to safety and service. There are some, however, who at can make a mountain of the proverbial molehill over the slightest perceived safety concern.

Recently I was called to the gate to intercede reagrding an "unco-operative" passenger on a flight that was about to depart. The F/A told me the customer had an oversize cary-on bag which he refused to check. When I went to the passenger's row I saw that yes, the bag (actually a picnic cooler) did protrude out (about 5 inches) from under the seat in front of the passenger. It would have fit in the overhead but, the flight was crowded and the bins were full. The passenger was visibly quite upset, as was his wife. Complicating the matter was a language issue; the couple was from Greece and spoke little English.

It was apparent that words had already been exchanged and the F/A was upset as well. In spite of my non existant Greek and the customer's limited English I did learn that the cooler contained insulin and other medication, hence the passengers unwillingness to have it checked. Departure time was rapidly approaching, and I knew that station management would not take kindly to a delay being taken over this issue. The F/A was adamant that the he cooler could not be allowed to protrude in to the
area in front of the passenger's feet and insited that the couple be deplaned. I thought about suggesting moving the man and his wife into the aisle and center seat, leaving the cooler to protrude out in fron the un occupied window seat where it would persent no danger to anyone need to evacuate. The person in the aisle seat would have to be moved. and that would have taken more time. But at this point, tempers all around were heated and I did not think the F/A would back down, so I deplaned the couple. (I knew that there were plemty of seats on the next flight.) After they were off the plane I apologized and gave them lunch vouchers to use while waiting for the next flight.


The poimt of this story is that yes, the F/A was technically correct about the cooler; it should not have been under the seat. Yes the couple should have boarded earlier (they had boarded near the end) so the overhaed bin would not have been full. But a little proactive thinking, instead of blind adherence to the letter of the regs could have avoided stressful experience for everyone. And there were some other places the cooler could have fit if the F/A had been more accomodating. (The are just behing the last F/C row, for example.)

------------------
"I am serious...and don't call me Shirley"
(Leslie Nielsen as Dr Rumack in "Airplane")

[This message has been edited by Dont call me Shirley (edited Dec 10, 2003).]

TPA, did you give your contact info to the passenger that was subjected to this treatment? in case he needs a witness to back him up?

Well, I wondered whether I was the only one who provided witness information to the airport police. Apparently I wasn’t. So, I asked for a copy of the police report.

Let all of this be a warning to all of us frequent flyers. If you P/O a FA, they can have an armed contingent meet the plane and escort you off. Since I don’t have a hosting site to post the complete report, here’s essentially the narrative.

By the way, someone purportedly from US emailed and asked for my personal details “in confidence” since he saw my Flyertalk post, but never responded when I said I would respond to an official US Airways email account. At any rate, here’s most of the text from the Tampa Airport police report:

"Landmark (Gate F86)
REF Irate on board, Unknown Situation

Advised Mr. XXXX was upset that the flight attendant kept touching his shoulder. [h]e was offended and stated he was interfering w/ flight crew. Apparently, after speaking with both parties 112 advised situation is unfounded and has several other names of witnesses that are advising the same circumstances as the accused. No further action will be taken.

Narrative by OFC Washington:
Responded to A/S F Gate 86 US Airways repted a S41 on board an in coming aircraft. When the aircraft arrived, I met the complainant (FL Attendant), he stated that when they announced t bring seat to upright position, the subject in question failed to do so. When he touched the subject, subject’s response was - Don’t touch me - . He then asked subject - what your problem? - (And went on to say it was his aircraft). Subject stated that when he woke up, he may have been slow raising his seat, but when he told the FLT Attendant not to touch him, the flight attend - went off-. A passer by passenger confirmed subjects account."

The call logs from the aircraft are equally alarming. How can law enforcement be called out when the FA has some “unfounded” score to settle with a 60 y/o sleeping PAX?


[This message has been edited by TPA us ff (edited Dec 19, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by TPA us ff (edited Dec 19, 2003).]

I would love to send the passenger in question my business card. Just the thought of doing some depositions with the folks at CCY would make my year.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by sassamanlaw:
I would love to send the passenger in question my business card. Just the thought of doing some depositions with the folks at CCY would make my year.</font>

ROFLMAO

On a more serious note, given this report, why wasnt action taken by the police against the FA and the captain who called it in?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by GadgetFreak:
On a more serious note, given this report, why wasnt action taken by the police against the FA and the captain who called it in?</font>

Very good point.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TPA us ff:
How can law enforcement be called out when the FA has some “unfounded” score to settle with a 60 y/o sleeping PAX?
</font>

I'm sure that if a call came in as "I have an unfounded score to settle", law enforcement wouldn't respond. I doubt it's called in that way. It's pretty darn hard to tell this before getting there and asking questions.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">On a more serious note, given this report, why wasnt action taken by the police against the FA and the captain who called it in?</font>

Regarding the captain - should action be taken against a dispatcher when firemen are sent to a false alarm? An FA tells the captain there is a security alert, do you think the captain should investigate, evaluate, make judgement, etc. Or call the folks who are trained in doing that.

Regarding the FA - yeah, maybe in an ideal world. But this calls more for discipline from US than legal action.

I disagree CPRich. We dont live in an ideal world but we should live in a world better than this. The captain isnt the dispatcher. He gets paid pretty good money to be in charge of and responsible for what happes to the plane. The police dispatcher who sends the police to the airport here is the dispatcher. My whole point is that no one takes this seriously for some reason. If the pilot radios in and says he has an emergency of some sort and when he gets there just says oh, not really we just made it up, the FAA would have their .... Why is this any different. At the very least I want every captain to know, that if they radio in a false report they are going to spend 5 or 6 hours getting questioned by the police. Because if that happens every FA is going to know that he is going to have one hopping mad captain if he does this to someone. The airline industry is really like no other in that more and more I see them starting to use law enforcement as a surregate customer service arm. It is terribly inappropriate and there is absolutely no control on it nor any responsibility associated with it.

If I make repeated false police claims about my neighbor the police pretty soon the police will be after me, not my neighbor. An FA could probably do this once a week in a different city and no one would ever know. That is one reason that I think these incidents should be treated the same as a pilot declaring an emergency and be reported to the FAA. That way it is all going to one place and there can be records of it. The aircrews would also not be so flippant about it if there was an investigation about it as well.

Bottom line is that airline employees think they are God and should be paid well and respected as such. This gets old and this is why the public is so pissed off these days at airlines. People are tired of being treated like goats and slammed in a box car with no leg or breathing space for hours.

In the real world the flight attendant would be out a job in a flash. No customer service oriented company would allow this crap to occur. But those union contracts protect this FA against job penalties....this is what is wrong with the airline, no discipline of the employees.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by GadgetFreak:
I disagree CPRich. We dont live in an ideal world but we should live in a world better than this. The captain isnt the dispatcher. He gets paid pretty good money to be in charge of and responsible for what happes to the plane. </font>

Well, we can agree to disagree. I'd rather have the captain in the left seat on final approach and landing. In fact, I'd be surprised if the plane is allowed to land without him/her paying full attention to getting the plane on the ground. If you would rather him play CSI and figure out the he-said/she-said while the plane circles until he's free, well.... everyone has a right to their opinion.

I don't think the captain should be disciplined, I think the FA should. The captain has enough to do and with the cabin door locked, they can't compromise security to go back and find out what's going on. They only know what the FAs tell them. Hence, the FA should be the one that is either terminated or suspended in some way. There are *way* too many FAs on furlough right now to have an idiot like this in the air.

[This message has been edited by tcollins33 (edited Dec 22, 2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by GadgetFreak:
The airline industry is really like no other in that more and more I see them starting to use law enforcement as a surregate customer service arm. It is terribly inappropriate and there is absolutely no control on it nor any responsibility associated with it.</font>

Oh yes, because the passengers are ALWAYS so well behaved on their own. If they were left to their own devices, everything would be just fine. Spare me - in todays environment, traveling on a plane is akin to traveling on a Greyhound bus (no offense to Greyhound). The same customers that once traveled Greyhound are now flying through our skies. I've seen young men push elderly women down to get to the front of the plane on landing, I've seen passengers in a physical confrontation in the middle of a flight, only to be goaded on by a group of passengers standing in their seats yelling "FIGHT FIGHT!!!". If you think that airline employees like being the on board security detail then you got it all wrong. It's the public that puts us in this position in the first place.

I don't believe that employees should abuse authority of any sort. By and large I don't feel like the largest part of the F/A group does abuse this authority. There is a small group that does and they should probably not be working for the airline.


[This message has been edited by AS Flyer (edited Dec 22, 2003).]

This is an unbelievable story. . .I understand about our world today and the world that we now live in (I won't even start on that); but from the sounds of it, this FA has NO business being in the air.

It appears that we are forgetting that we still do have civil rights in this country - one of them is that we should be able to travel throughout the country in relative freedom WITHOUT the prospect of "being met at the plane" or "deplaned" because some FA doesn't like us. Also, this reminds me of the story of the "boy who cried wolf" in that if a FA continues to have the plane met, then when it is really necessary who will listen? Finally, I agree that the FA and the captains should have had to go with the law enforcement agents. Filing a false report, using up law enforcement time that isn't necessary, and scaring a person? Aren't those wrong as well?

This is just a sad commentary of our airlines these days imo. As far as passengers not behaving; AS I'm not doubting you, but I fly AS a lot and have never encountered the behavior that you're talking about.

I think this would be a good story for USAToday (since the FA seems to enjoy that newspaper so much, he could be a feature story!) http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by AS Flyer:

I don't believe that employees should abuse authority of any sort. By and large I don't feel like the largest part of the F/A group does abuse this authority. There is a small group that does and they should probably not be working for the airline.


[This message has been edited by AS Flyer (edited Dec 22, 2003).]</font>


This is all I am saying. Im not sure what you are complaining about. I agree with every word of it except the use of "probably" in the last sentence.

We arent talking about someone starting a fight on a plane (well, maybe the FA). We are talking about abuse of authority, and this isnt the only case of it happening. I would not, nor do I think many others here would complain if the police were called about a fight, smoking in the lav or any of a number of other legitimate issues. The incident described in the first post of this thread is not such an case. Nor from what we can tell are the cases described in several other threads on these forums. Nor in one incident I saw myself some years ago.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by CPRich:
Well, we can agree to disagree. I'd rather have the captain in the left seat on final approach and landing. In fact, I'd be surprised if the plane is allowed to land without him/her paying full attention to getting the plane on the ground. If you would rather him play CSI and figure out the he-said/she-said while the plane circles until he's free, well.... everyone has a right to their opinion.

</font>

Of course I dont expect the captain to do this. I think the following from the same post is more representative of what I am saying:

"At the very least I want every captain to know, that if they radio in a false report they are going to spend 5 or 6 hours getting questioned by the police. Because if that happens every FA is going to know that he is going to have one hopping mad captain if he does this to someone. "

There are lots of things a captain can do short of leaving his seat to know what stock to put into something like this complaint by an FA. Most simple would be to ask another FA, or even ask what happened in any detail. Hearing that a 60 year old man didnt put his seat up fast would tell me that I wasnt in a situation needing the police. But I do understand your point about the pilots first obligation being flying. It is pretty obvious. But I really think that if a police request was sent in, and resulted in the reports above, the FA should have been arrested or at the very least reported to the airline for filing a false report and the captain should have had to explain his role in this. As it is now, they can call the police and walk away, leaving in this case an apparently completely innocent person to deal with this problem. It just isnt right.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by GadgetFreak:

This is all I am saying. Im not sure what you are complaining about. I agree with every word of it except the use of "probably" in the last sentence.

We arent talking about someone starting a fight on a plane (well, maybe the FA). We are talking about abuse of authority, and this isnt the only case of it happening. I would not, nor do I think many others here would complain if the police were called about a fight, smoking in the lav or any of a number of other legitimate issues. The incident described in the first post of this thread is not such an case. Nor from what we can tell are the cases described in several other threads on these forums. Nor in one incident I saw myself some years ago.</font>

I'm responding to your statement, as referenced in my previous post, which is a pretty general statement to say that you think that airline personnel acting as "security" on board is inappropriate (your word not mine). You were speaking in general terms and so was I. As far as this particular case goes, assuming that the original poster did not embelish the story or exaggerate (because that NEVER happens here) then I agree that this F/A should not be working. Back to your original statement that I responded to, who else would fulfill this roll of security on board if not for the F/A's? Do you suggest we should have an on board police force?

I was just thinking of trying out US airways and thought I'd take a swing by this site first.

I am so disappointed and happy. Disappointed in the airline and happy I have a choice not to fly with any airline like this.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by I-flybynight:
I was just thinking of trying out US airways and thought I'd take a swing by this site first.

I am so disappointed and happy. Disappointed in the airline and happy I have a choice not to fly with any airline like this.</font>

I have nearly 400 segments in three years and at NO time have I ever observed conduct that comes close to this. Please reconsider your decision. The front liners are amoung the best in the business. Do we know this incident really happened as reported?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by AS Flyer:
I'm responding to your statement, as referenced in my previous post, which is a pretty general statement to say that you think that airline personnel acting as "security" on board is inappropriate (your word not mine). You were speaking in general terms and so was I. As far as this particular case goes, assuming that the original poster did not embelish the story or exaggerate (because that NEVER happens here) then I agree that this F/A should not be working. Back to your original statement that I responded to, who else would fulfill this roll of security on board if not for the F/A's? Do you suggest we should have an on board police force?</font>

I think you are confused. I said absolutely nothing of the sort. Nor do I, after rereading my post you refer to see the word "security" used at all, much less in the context you said I used it in. Moreover, since it is late in the day, I double checked this by using the browser to search for the word "security" on the previous page. Several instances were found although none in my post.

It is generally customary, that in cases where you say that someone said something, indicating it in quotations and saying "(your word not mine)" that they should have actually said it. I did use the word surregate, in the context "I see them starting to use law enforcement as a surregate customer service arm", however, this is about as close as I got. For the differences between the word "surregate" and "security" i can suggest you refer to www.m-w.com/home.htm (http://www.m-w.com/home.htm) - 24k .

As to my point, it wasnt that aircrews should not be aware of, or in charge of or responsible for security in the air. Of course they should. It was that they should not use this power, or more precisely abuse this power in dealing with non-security situations of any kind, or customer service situations that have no real security implications. In other words, to use law enforcement as a substitute for customer service activity (hint re word surrogate). Oh and yes, I did spell it wrong on the previous post http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Just like they shouldnt, in my opinion, use their keeping of a captive audience to pass out, oh, Bible quotes with dinner on airplanes for instance.



[This message has been edited by GadgetFreak (edited Dec 22, 2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by GadgetFreak:
I think you are confused. I said absolutely nothing of the sort. Nor do I, after rereading my post you refer to see the word "security" used at all, much less in the context you said I used it in. Moreover, since it is late in the day, I double checked this by using the browser to search for the word "security" on the previous page. Several instances were found although none in my post.

It is generally customary, that in cases where you say that someone said something, indicating it in quotations and saying "(your word not mine)" that they should have actually said it. I did use the word surregate, in the context "I see them starting to use law enforcement as a surregate customer service arm", however, this is about as close as I got. For the differences between the word "surregate" and "security" i can suggest you refer to www.m-w.com/home.htm (http://www.m-w.com/home.htm) - 24k .

As to my point, it wasnt that aircrews should not be aware of, or in charge of or responsible for security in the air. Of course they should. It was that they should not use this power, or more precisely abuse this power in dealing with non-security situations of any kind, or customer service situations that have no real security implications. In other words, to use law enforcement as a substitute for customer service activity (hint re word surrogate). Oh and yes, I did spell it wrong on the previous post http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Just like they shouldnt, in my opinion, use their keeping of a captive audience to pass out, oh, Bible quotes with dinner on airplanes for instance.

[This message has been edited by GadgetFreak (edited Dec 22, 2003).]</font>


My apologies, I re-read your post and realized what you were saying. Although I tend to disagree with you, as I think that it is a very small group of crew members that call on law enforcement without need and it happens infrequently at best. You might have been witness to an incident more than once, but it's my belief that that's an odd coincidence. I have only once seen the police called by a fellow crew member without merit and at that point it was the Captain that was insisting on it and not as much the F/A. If it had been me I don't think I would have involved anyone at all, anyway..... please accept my apologies for not reading carefully enough.

Incidentally, I put the words "security" in quotations, not because I was trying to say that you used that word but I was using it as a reference for on board security and although it didn't seem that appropriate, it was the only word I could think of. I'm using run on sentences now and not making alot of sense so I'm off to bed - happy travels everyone....

Apology accepted. I was in a bit of a cranky mood and went off a bit myself. Sorry for that. I agree with you that it is a vanishingly small percentage of airline employees who do this. I just feel very strongly they should not be allowed to do this with impunity. There are too many outstanding airline employees currently laid off to allow ones like that described here continue behaving in this way.

The root of the problem is that from what I learned on a thread on the UA forum, FAs are never evaluated based on job performance. Only seniority and things like sick days taken. Im somewhat amazed things are as good as they are given that. I cant honestly imagine trying to run a business like that. Ultimately, I think everyone from the passengers to the majority good employees would benefit from introducing performance based reviews in the industry. I dont expect it to happen though.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by I-flybynight:
I was just thinking of trying out US airways and thought I'd take a swing by this site first.

I am so disappointed and happy. Disappointed in the airline and happy I have a choice not to fly with any airline like this.</font>

I have never seen a US Airways flight attendant freak out like the one referenced in this thread.

If you want to avoid mean, power-hungry flight attendants, I would suggest you avoid AA.

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"The minute a Bundy has good luck he immediately starts building up an equal amount of bad luck." -- Al Bundy, Married With Children

[This message has been edited by JS (edited Dec 23, 2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TPA us ff:
How can law enforcement be called out when the FA has some “unfounded” score to settle with a 60 y/o sleeping PAX?</font>

Bible teacher (http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040117/NEWS/401170384/1004), too.

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/01/17/Tampabay/Snippy_flight_attenda.shtml

***Edit - Oooops - same story as above, just a different URL***

US Airways jet approached Tampa last month, and he was shocked by the consequences.

The 60-year-old small business owner from Asheville, N.C., said a flight attendant rebuked him and gave him sharp pokes in the shoulder.

After McLeod complained, the crew member reported him as a disruptive passenger and had Tampa International Airport police escort him off the plane.

Police questioned McLeod, who teaches Bible study at his church, and several passengers who backed up his story, then decided the flight attendant's call was unfounded.

"I've flown for 25 years and this guy was the worst," said McLeod, who takes about 15 domestic and international flights annually for his wholesale auto parts company, MB Marketing & Manufacturing. "I think the guy has got some issues."

[This message has been edited by CPRich (edited Jan 17, 2004).]

remember, all FAs arenot like this by any stretch, It would be nice once in a while to hear something nice about us. Sometimes it seems like sport for people to antagonize flight attendants. The thing with me is it will never get to a power struggle level. The rules must be followed. I am never condescending , belittling, and I will explain why things are done the way they are. I will then serve you your drink and pretzels (not peanuts, since we live in a politically correct world and peanuts are a no no for many reasons) with a smile. Just say Thank you, That is all I have to hear. But it is amazing how many times I don't.

I seldom if ever complain about FAs. I always treat them in a friendly respectful manner. However, the facts in this case, facts being several witnesses from the newpaper article, say that this FA was way out of line. I am extremely disappointed by the response from US on this. I read their response as basically saying, this is none of your business and dont cause any trouble you had better do as you are told. Well, you should not interfere with FAs but FAs like this one shouldnt be FAs. Their complete lack of any acknowledgement of a problem here is really troubling to me. This guy should be sacked, period. Doesnt US have enough trouble without abusing customers?

Thanks for posting this. It has certainly made up my mind to never fly US Airways in the future. The FA is a moron.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by davistev:
Thanks for posting this. It has certainly made up my mind to never fly US Airways in the future. The FA is a moron.</font>

As critical as I am of this incident I think you are being unfair. If you search around it has happened on other carriers as well. I think it is an industry problem, not a US problem. Not that they shouldnt do something about their little corner of hell.

Edited to change typos to something resembling English sentences


[This message has been edited by GadgetFreak (edited Jan 17, 2004).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by davistev:
Thanks for posting this. It has certainly made up my mind to never fly US Airways in the future. The FA is a moron.</font>

You're going to live a very earth-bound existence if 1 bad FA (how many does US have - 5,000, 10,000?) stops you from flying an airline. I know I would have none left.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Gman3:
Just say Thank you, That is all I have to hear. But it is amazing how many times I don't.</font>

I always make a point to say please and thank you. I've been told by more than one FA that I've been one of the most appreciative passengers they've ever had. At least 50% of the time, however, the FA never even acknowledges me a "you're welcome" or even a smile. I keep going on saying "thank you" nonetheless and enjoy the rapport with an FA who is equally polite.

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--Wishing for you safe travels and for me Row 1 on the A330.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Gman3:
It would be nice once in a while to hear something nice about us.</font>I make it a point to call out exceptional performance on either end of the spectrum. For a number of years (latter half of the 90s) I had the fortune of sending only a single negative performance letter and at least a half-dozen positive performance letters to CO.

While we're on the subject, I'd like to relate an incident I witnessed several years ago. This was on a CO MD80 IAH-SEA. While at the gate, there was a passenger in FC using her cell phone. The door was closed, and the "cell phones must be turned off" announcement was made. She didn't turn hers off. The announcement was repeated (specifically for her benefit), and she did nothing. The lead FA for the flight approached her and requested that she turn her cell phone off. She refused in a rather nasty fashion. By this time we were halfway to the runway.

The lead FA called the captain and informed him of the situation. The captain immediately turned the airplane around and headed back to the gates, whereupon she and her traveling companion were indignantly led off the plane.

After the door was reclosed and we pushed back again, those of us in FC literally applauded the lead FA's performance. Despite being clearly shaken by the increasing levels of abuse by the cell-phone-wielding woman (comments about how she'll never fly CO again [which I thought would be a good thing], and she'll have the FA fired), the FA handled it with dignity, calmness, and professionalism throughout. This is the way such situations should be handled.

And, yes, I let her know if she needed a witness that I'd happily serve. I did also send a letter of commendation to CO.