US Airways Dividend Miles (Pre-FlightFund Merger) - Yet another reminder of the nickle and dime show at US

I just returned from a business trip to SAN on UA. I was coming back to NY by SAN-LAX-JFK early this morning. Since I usually get to the airport early, especially after hearing of some of the recent security lines at some places, I got there in time to catch the earlier express flight to LAX. They asked me if I wanted to take the earlier flight and I said sure since it would mean some time to work at the RCC and the SAN express terminal isnt the most comfortable. No $25 fee was charged.

I get to LAX at about 8:05 with an 11:20 departure, heading to the RCC I notice another JFK flight leaving at 8:45. I scurry to the gate and ask if I can switch flights. The very pleasant GA checks, says, yes we have business seats available, would you like aisle or window. Home a few hours earlier than I would have been, no cost to UA and no $25 fee to me. Im happy, UA has a happy customer. All is good. Had this been US I would have either not paid the fee and sat in the club stewing over it, or paid the fee and sat on the plane stewing over it. Probably the latter. But US would have made $25 and pissed off a customer. So Im a 1K too, but Im not on AA and they have done the same thing. Basically, AA and UA treat me better in this regard than US and I have been a CP for years. This really isnt any way to run an airline in my opinion.

Personally, I think the $25 fee is quite reasonable ... my biggest problem with it last time I had to pay it was how long it took the check-in agent to collect it ...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Beckles:
Personally, I think the $25 fee is quite reasonable ... my biggest problem with it last time I had to pay it was how long it took the check-in agent to collect it ...</font>

I have very mixed thoughts on this. If I roll up to a flight that is wide open, or even if it is not wide open and I'm literally the last one on before they door closes, what is the cost to US?

I have found that United (in limited experience) and American (in many more samples) have not hassled me about standby charges. Ever.

Bearing that in mind, it's tough for me to swallow the US stance on the subject, although of late most of my flights have been from places where US has one, maybe two flights/day, so the standby issue has been moot. Perhaps, as I do some serious domestic flying this week, I'll get a chance for another trial...

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Don't feed the trolls.

FWIW I've had US waive the standby fee as well.

FWIW, I've never had US charge me the standby fee. Is this not applicable on all fare classes?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ClueByFour:
I have very mixed thoughts on this. If I roll up to a flight that is wide open, or even if it is not wide open and I'm literally the last one on before they door closes, what is the cost to US?
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The cost to reissue your ticket for one. For two, what if you were booked on a full flight and they lost a potential customer to another airline because you were taking that seat on the flight they would have liked to be booked on, only to have you vacate it at the last minute to take an earlier flight. They've lost the ability to sell that seat this late in the game and possibly lost a customer to another airline with a flight that suited their schedule.



[This message has been edited by AS Flyer (edited Jan 14, 2004).]

I also don't think there should be a fee for same day standby. This has been a benefit offered at no charge since I started flying.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by AS Flyer:
The cost to reissue your ticket for one. For two, what if you were booked on a full flight and they lost a potential customer to another airline because you were taking that seat on the flight they would have liked to be booked on, only to have you vacate it at the last minute to take an earlier flight. They've lost the ability to sell that seat this late in the game and possibly lost a customer to another airline with a flight that suited their schedule.

[This message has been edited by AS Flyer (edited Jan 14, 2004).]</font>


That is a bogus argument. For one, your ticket is not "reissued", you simply need a new boarding pass. It takes much more effort to process the stupid $25 fee than to check you in for the earlier flight. Secondly, airlines overbook their flights, so the fact that I was holding a seat in a later flight never prevented the airline to "resell" it... yield management did.

The "cost" is the reduced number of Y tickets sold when there is a liberal standby policy. US Airways apparently figures that the $25 hassle factor will drive more business travelers back to full fare tickets on US Airways, than to standby nirvana on Airline X.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ClueByFour:
If I roll up to a flight that is wide open, or even if it is not wide open and I'm literally the last one on before they door closes, what is the cost to US?</font>

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ATC:
The "cost" is the reduced number of Y tickets sold when there is a liberal standby policy. US Airways apparently figures that the $25 hassle factor will drive more business travelers back to full fare tickets on US Airways, than to standby nirvana on Airline X.

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Clearly US's nickel & dime policies are working given their financial situation. When US realizes they will make money by SELLING plane tickets and not through nickel & dime fees, they may have a chance. As I have posted before, US's bean counters should spend more time looking for ways to drive passengers TO US Airways rather than finding ways to eek another fee out of them.

Let's not forget that one of the keys to the success of the LCC's is their insistance on simplicity of operations. US is doing a wonderful job of confusing even those of us who are very frequent travellers with the nickel & dime tactics that are just as confusing to passengers as they are to the gate agents who have to deal with all of it. Walk up to a Southwest agent and try and stannd-by and they look at the screen to see if there is a seat, and if so they tear up you old boarding pass and hand you a new one. They've made it simple and look whose profitable and look who is not.

Better still, bring back those nice linen napkins with the single button-hole slot, real glassware, and the old theme song. Add two double Finlandia & Tonics, a lime that doesn't look as if it was grown in a toxic waste dump, and perhaps a well-placed smile. At that point we won't care if we are being nickel and dimed to death...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by geo1005:
As I have posted before, US's bean counters should spend more time looking for ways to drive passengers TO US Airways rather than finding ways to eek another fee out of them.</font>

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by geo1005:
Walk up to a Southwest agent and try and stannd-by and they look at the screen to see if there is a seat, and if so they tear up you old boarding pass and hand you a new one.</font>

Well, not quite. This is only if you are on a full-fare ticket. (Of course, full-fare on Southwest and on US are two totally different things.) If you are travelling on a discount ticket, they will let you standby only if you pay the difference between the discounted ticket and the full-fare ticket.

They made me pony up about $70 bucks or so to get home about 5 hours early last year.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ATC:
Better still, bring back those nice linen napkins with the single button-hole slot, real glassware, and the old theme song. Add two double Finlandia & Tonics, a lime that doesn't look as if it was grown in a toxic waste dump, and perhaps a well-placed smile. At that point we won't care if we are being nickel and dimed to death...

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BRAVO!


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--Wishing for you safe travels and for me Row 1 on the A330.

Saying that it is a reasonable fee, or that they have a justification for doing it misses the salient point. That is that the airline business is competitive and their competitors dont charge this fee. And again, Im not talking about LCCs, Im talking about American.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by nawlinsdoc:
Well, not quite. This is only if you are on a full-fare ticket. (Of course, full-fare on Southwest and on US are two totally different things.) If you are travelling on a discount ticket, they will let you standby only if you pay the difference between the discounted ticket and the full-fare ticket.

They made me pony up about $70 bucks or so to get home about 5 hours early last year.</font>


Ture. But it's a simple and straightforward policy that everyone can understand. And with their fares you never get gouged.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ATC:
The "cost" is the reduced number of Y tickets sold when there is a liberal standby policy. </font>

And how many full Y tickets are sold within two hours of a flight's departure? Darn few. Any revenue on that front is far outweighed, I'll bet, by the costs of coping with DBs, misconnects and wx cancellations related to the last trips of the day. It is ALWAYS to the airline's advantage to move the day's passengers through the network as early in the day as possible. This frees up late-trip seats to accommodate misconnects, bumpees, etc. It's stupid and short-sightd to alienate a passenger by charging $25 to do something that helps the airline's operations.

All these fees are bogus. Starved for revenue, they have no imagination. The most original idea they can come up with is forcing more money out of their existing customer base. Perhaps that explains why that base is diminishing.Last time I even asked about it, I was told that if for some reason I didn't get on, they kept the 25 bucks anyway. That kind of opened new vistas. Got me thinking that instead of going all the way to Vegas, I could do my gambling at the Pittsburgh Airport.In point of fact, your going on an earlier flight, which has open seats, does them a favor by relieving inventory pressure on later flights, which often have heavier demand and oversell. And that overweight baggage crap (which you can solve by always having a small folding case with you, to transfer contents into) is an outrage. Over half the line agents can't even figure out how to run the special service tickets needed. Besides, if you check curbside, they never know anyway. While they're looking for more revenue, somebody needs to tell them, "it's the tickets, stupid".

That was not my point.

In the "good old days" I would often book a discount non-refundable fare for a business trip with a variable return time, knowing that I could simply standby for an earlier or later flight. If you fly the same route often, you get a feel for the low load factor flights.

Now I (generally) tend to book our contracted Y fares with US Airways which permit changes without penalty. I simply don't want to deal with the hassle. I suspect I am a rare breed though, and the $25 fee and other indignities are scaring off more revenue than the few hundred dollars they get from me on my increasingly rare trips.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by BearX220:
And how many full Y tickets are sold within two hours of a flight's departure? Darn few... </font>

Talk about nickle and diming. I just flew US LGA-CLT-LAS AND LAS-PHL-LGA. Its the first time I have been on a flight with IFC. I was sitting there rolling my eyes becasue the first hour of the flight to LAS was the Flight Attendants trying to squeeze money out of the passengers. First the headsets. Now they In Flight Cafe (which they serve before and beverages) then the drinks with an emphasis on the $5 cocktails. I swear the in flight cafe goes around before the beverages because they probably think they will sell more that way if people know they are going to have to wait another 30-40 min just to get a mini bag of pretzels.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ATC:
In the "good old days" I would often book a discount non-refundable fare for a business trip with a variable return time, knowing that I could simply standby for an earlier or later flight. If you fly the same route often, you get a feel for the low load factor flights.</font>

They have always had processes in place to prevent abuse on this score. A few years ago, I flew PIT-ORD and back every week for 2.5-3 months. On most (if not all) of the discount fares, you could standby for any flight leaving ORD that did not depart between like 5 pm and 7.30 pm. In other words, if you were on the 8pm (presumably because it was a cheaper fare) and wanted 5pm, you could not do it. This was written into the fare rules for the discounted fare, circa 2000.


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Don't feed the trolls.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by USFlyerUS:
FWIW, I've never had US charge me the standby fee. Is this not applicable on all fare classes?</font>

So true for you since you've stated you buy last minute tickets which are often in a full fare class.

Thanks so much for sharing your stories with us. It seems nothing ever goes wrong for you. I know I enjoy them.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by trvlr64:
So true for you since you've stated you buy last minute tickets which are often in a full fare class.

Thanks so much for sharing your stories with us. It seems nothing ever goes wrong for you. I know I enjoy them.

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LOL, FWIW, I haven't flown on a full fare ticket in almost a year. Most of them are the 3 or 7 day advance purchase F/B/M fares (not the full fare F). Things go right when (1) you know the agents in the cities you travel to frequently and (2) being super nice to everyone from US you run into. It works wonders. Also, I refuse to let my employer be stingy. I'm gone from home 5 nights/week, 50 weeks/year. Sorry, but I need to be comfortable (not extravagant, but comfortable).

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by USFlyerUS:
LOL, FWIW, I haven't flown on a full fare ticket in almost a year. Most of them are the 3 or 7 day advance purchase F/B/M fares (not the full fare F). Things go right when (1) you know the agents in the cities you travel to frequently and (2) being super nice to everyone from US you run into. It works wonders. Also, I refuse to let my employer be stingy. I'm gone from home 5 nights/week, 50 weeks/year. Sorry, but I need to be comfortable (not extravagant, but comfortable).</font>


Well we share the same itineray it seems but I have still been charged a $25 fee on certain fares. And I'm "super" nice too since I know every agent in PIT pratically. Sometimes you still have to pay the $25.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by USFlyerUS:
FWIW, I've never had US charge me the standby fee. Is this not applicable on all fare classes?</font>


I havent either, but they have asked. I just went to the club and waited since it was only an hour and I would have had to change limo pickup anyway I decided in that case not to bother. Again, the point isnt that this is not always collected by people who know you. The point is that US is trying to collect this fee from people on most discount fare classes and their competitors arent. On one particular trip, I would have had to pay $2200 for a ticket on US that I think I would have paid $25 to standby and I actually paid $329 on American and didnt have to pay to go on standby. I just cant get over this, why would anyone fly US in that scenario. They dont need to be giving people reasons to fly their competitors and this fee is nothing but that.

While I won't fly as much this year, I'm a CP that has put up with a lot of the reductions and many more connecting flights when I could fly direct on other carriers.

A month ago I flew direct on AA from DFW-MCO. Coming home (it was a one day trip) I simply walked up to the gate counter 10 minutes before the flight, politely inquired if I could make that flight, and was in my seat 2 minutes later.

I have no status on AA and that was probably the second time in a year I flew AA. It really ticks me off that US would charge me $25 simply to take an earlier flight (no baggage) while AA will gladly change the time.

US needs to be competitive with what other carriers are offerring. I'm almost to the point where I don't even care about status with US anymore because it really doesn't seem like F is much better than coach on most other carriers, and at least I can change my flight time on some other carriers without a fee.