DiningBuzz! - Returning a Dish Because You Don't Like It- Should You Have to Pay For It?

Sorry

You were wrong....I would have told you to sling your hook and not come back again. :D

I think the restaurant was right, indeed I think they were more than generous to offer you half off the dish that there was nothing wrong with.

Piling on -- the restaurant is correct. Never a problem to send back a dish that is improperly prepared (should be comped) nor to return one not to your liking and order something else (but that is on your tab). The offer of half-off was generous in my opinion.

Same holds for wine -- send it back if spoiled, but not if merely different than the fruity cab you were hoping for!

(Which restaurant? I wouldn't mind discovering a new mid-priced Vietnamese in BOS!)

So you are saying that if you owned a restaurant and the customer returned a dish they didn't like after taking one bite you would have them pay for it?

+1 I would never consider returning a dish that I simply did not care for.

That is why I never understand why when they bring out wine they always give you a bit to sample first. Once I ask them to open the bottle, I feel like Im committed to paying for it.

Who was in the right in this situation?No one, it appears.

Sorry

+1 I would never consider returning a dish that I simply did not care for.

That is why I never understand why when they bring out wine they always give you a bit to sample first. Once I ask them to open the bottle, I feel like Im committed to paying for it.

What would you do with the dish you ate one bite of and couldn't eat the rest of then? Just leave it there on the corner of the table and be unsatisfied with your meal?

Why is this so difficult?

You made a bad choice and picked something you didn't like. It's not their fault. Ask they take it back, order something else but don't expect them to not get paid just because you didn't like the meal.

To me that would be the same as asking an airline to refund your ticket price somewhere because you didn't have a good time there. It's not their fault.

OK OK, I get it, I'm wrong... but still if I owned a restaurant I would rather the customer tell me they didn't like it and leave happy than to have them endure a meal they didn't like or ask them to pay for a meal they couldn't eat. But I'm not a restaurant owner, just a lowely customer trying to decide where I want to eat at next.

Pho Hoa Restaurant in Chinatown- just don't order beef with rice because it has pickled bits in between slices of beef (doesn't say anything about it on the menu by the way). Everything else is pretty good.

Well, if that wasn't mentioned in the menu, then I think you have a case, as, it seems to me, pickles were a material component of the dish and it is not intuitive to expect it in this dish.

As an example, I hate cilantro and won't order anything with cilantro in it. If I were to order pho, I wouldn't have grounds to return at no cost to me, because it is expected that pho would have cilantro. If, though, I ordered french fries and they contained cilantro, I would consider myself to have grounds to return it if it were not mentioned on the menu, because one wouldn't expect cilantro to be an ingredient in french fries.

...If, though, I ordered french fries and they contained cilantro, I would consider myself to have grounds to return it if it were not mentioned on the menu, because one wouldn't expect cilantro to be an ingredient in french fries.

LOL. :D

www.recipe4living.com/recipes/cilantro_french_fries.htm

But, I get...and agree...with what you are saying here. ;)

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Social Media Specialist
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

I've only returned a meal because I didn't like it twice. Both times the restaurant didn't charge me for it but both times I was willing to pay for it because the meal was (probably) prepared properly; I just didn't like it. I think the restaurants were very generous and my wife enjoyed her food. Usually she tells me what to order or not order based on 40+ years of eating together (and she's usually right.) She knows what I like and I am not an adventurous eater.

Well, if that wasn't mentioned in the menu, then I think you have a case, as, it seems to me, pickles were a material component of the dish and it is not intuitive to expect it in this dish.

As an example, I hate cilantro and won't order anything with cilantro in it. If I were to order pho, I wouldn't have grounds to return at no cost to me, because it is expected that pho would have cilantro. If, though, I ordered french fries and they contained cilantro, I would consider myself to have grounds to return it if it were not mentioned on the menu, because one wouldn't expect cilantro to be an ingredient in french fries.

Great minds and cilantro haters think alike ;)

So you are saying that if you owned a restaurant and the customer returned a dish they didn't like after taking one bite you would have them pay for it?

As partner/owners of three ethnic restaurants in Canad and US that is our policy. It if is not done right with proper ingredients it is replaced or another dish substituted. Our service staff are trained to describe the dish the best that they can and customers are warned about our policy about "free tastings"

If people want to try a tasting then we suggest that they are better at an all you can eat buffet.

I'm with everyone else here -- you ordered a dish, and didn't like it. It's not their fault that your palate was not a match for their cooking.

I would mention to the staff, as you did, and if they comp it, all well and good. But I don't think they have an obligation in this regard. And many 'ethnic' places don't (and should not need to) mention every ingredient in the dish. If you have an allergy or a very particular aversion to some ingredient, you have an obligation to mention it to the server.

Having said that, many places will be rather more generous than what you experienced. I remember once ordering a dish (sweetbreads) at the Savoy grill and they came out so salty as to be inedible. Arguably, this is a different scenario, since I don't believe the dish was prepared properly. However, I was only in my mid-20s and far more shy, so didn't mention anything, but just didn't eat my dish. The waiter enquired as to why, I said the reason -- they took away the dish, came back, agreed it was salty, and offered me an alternate (the roast lamb, from the trolley, which btw was exquisite). They then offered us both complementary desserts and comped my dish to boot. But I did not ask for any of the special treatment, and was grateful when it was offered.

Put it down to 'experience' -- do all unpleasant experiences have to be someone else's fault?

tb

After reading the thread responses I think I'm in the minority in saying that the OP could be right, but only if he asked what was in the dish, how it was prepared, and it ended up not coming out as described by the server.

Speaking of wine: I've only sent a bottle back once in all the times I've ordered wine, and there have been several more times that I should have done it, but for the most part it almost never happens.

OK OK, I get it, I'm wrong... but still if I owned a restaurant I would rather the customer tell me they didn't like it and leave happy than to have them endure a meal they didn't like or ask them to pay for a meal they couldn't eat. But I'm not a restaurant owner, just a lowely customer trying to decide where I want to eat at next.

You say this until you've had a parade of people come through who eat their meals and then tell you that they didn't like them, won't pay for them, and threaten to trash you on the internet if you don't comp their meals and throw in dessert for free. It's not unheard of for people to KEEP COMING BACK to a restaurant repeatedly and "complaining" about their food if the restaurant has a blanket policy of comping meals. Restaurants (particularly mom-and-pop places) run on very thin margins and comped meals cut into the bottom line and piss off the servers (no tips on what can be a very demanding and high maintenance table). Seriously... there are people who make a career out of trying to scam meals for free.

Great minds and cilantro haters think alike ;)A Venn diagram might be helpful here:

http://www.statistics-help-online.com/img16.png

A = Great minds
B = Cilantro haters

:p

A Venn diagram might be helpful here:

http://www.statistics-help-online.com/img16.png

A = Great minds
B = Cilantro haters

:p

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/dining/14curious.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/dining/14curious.htmlI used to agree with that.

I think there are different varieties of cilantro (there's gotta be, right?). When cilantro first hit the scene (early 90's) the stuff I got at the store was way more bitter than today's, and definitely soapy tasting.

The stuff my parents grow in their garden today also has the nasty soapy taste. If all cilantro tasted similar, I'd probably hate it as well.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/diningbuzz/1073978-attention-cilantro-haters-must-read.html

there are people who make a career out of trying to scam meals for free.

Try that here in Argentina and you'll soon end up unemployed and hungry. :D

After freaking out on her they finally gave me the new dish without having me pay for the old dish. However it did take me making a pretty big scene with me having to threaten to never come back and give them bad internet reviews before they took back the old dish. Who was in the right in this situation?

Hmmm, let me think about that. You might have a case if you are a teenage girl on a VH1 reality show, otherwise your behavior wasn't appropriate.

If I owned the restaurant, I'd ban you for life.

After reading the thread responses I think I'm in the minority in saying that the OP could be right, but only if he asked what was in the dish, how it was prepared, and it ended up not coming out as described by the server.

Even then it's conceivable the server would describe the dish accurately and he wouldn't like it.

A must-read (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/16125035-post23.html)

That is why I never understand why when they bring out wine they always give you a bit to sample first. Once I ask them to open the bottle, I feel like Im committed to paying for it.

They give you the taste so you can verify that the wine is not corked. A corked bottle, or an oxidized one, are pretty much the only valid reasons to return wine.

There is inherent risk and reward in trying something new, but the risk is yours. It might be good customer service to take it off the bill, but not required.

Also, never argue with people who will handle your food !!!!

Unless the reason for your dislike of the taste was something wrong with the food, or wrong with the way it was prepared, you should have paid for it, or least been prepared to pay for it. And freaking out on them, threatening them, etc. is WAY out of line.

As for tasting and returning wine, I've only done it once. I was a young lawyer, probably 26 or 27, we were out celebrating our anniversary, and went to a really nice restaurant in DC. They brought the wine, I tasted it, and told the waiter that it was bad and we wanted a different bottle of wine. The waiter called over the maitre'd, who started to tell me in a very condescending way (without tasting it) that this was the way that that particular wine was supposed to taste.

So, at that point, I informed him that I actually did know a fair bit about wine, had attended Cornell and taken the Wines course in the Hotel School there, and knew a bad wine when I tasted it. I invited them both to taste the wine. They tasted it, and I watched the maitre'd wrinkle his face up as he realized the bottle was bad.

At that point, they were effusively apologetic, and brought over a much much nicer bottle of wine, courtesy of the restaurant.

And gained a loyal customer.

I think the restaurant was right, indeed I think they were more than generous to offer you half off the dish that there was nothing wrong with.

I live in Dallas and have several restaurants that I frequent on a regular basis. I have NEVER had an issue anywhere if I didn't like a dish or drink getting a replacement meal or drink. I don't do it frequently but on the occasion I find something completely unpalatable I will request something else. I rarely ask for a swap out, the restaurant(s) usually offers it up. I don't see any issue with asking for something else. I figure that my meal should be enjoyable and I appreciate establishments that are flexible if I dislike the flavor or preparation method.

There is inherent rise and reward in trying something new, but the risk is yours. It might be good customer service to take it off the bill, but not required.

The one exception is a few restaurants where I've seen something on the order of "Try something new! If you don't love it, we'll replace it with your old favorite."

Mostly chains, but the fact that they have to point out that they'll do it is a sign to me that I would not expect that as the norm at other places.

Mostly chains, but the fact that they have to point out that they'll do it is a sign to me that I would not expect that as the norm at other places.

Yeah, chains have a more standardized approach, and can probably afford to comp the odd meal here and there. The story with a family-run business, where the margins might be tighter may be different.

Freaking out, making a scene and threatening bad reviews does not sound like a reasonable adult response to a minor problem. More like the actions of a petulant child.

OK OK, I get it, I'm wrong... but still if I owned a restaurant I would rather the customer tell me they didn't like it and leave happy than to have them endure a meal they didn't like or ask them to pay for a meal they couldn't eat. But I'm not a restaurant owner, just a lowely customer trying to decide where I want to eat at next.

I'd clearly make a very poor restauranter in your view.

And you "freaked out"!? Shame on you mate!

I'd certainly make you pay for what you'd ordered and ask you to leave and not return and personally I would prefer it if you didn't come back. No need to see yourself as the oppressed in this situation. Being a customer doesn't entitle you to freeby tasters when they haven't been offered. You're exploring new dishes. Why should the restuarant take responsibility for what you like and don't like? Why should I have to pay for your experiments?


The fact they offered you 50% off made them long-suffering heroes in my view.

You yourself said you freaked out over a plate of food.

After freaking out on her they finally gave me the new dish without having me pay for the old dish. However it did take me making a pretty big scene

Saying you were acting childish is not an insult, it's a statement of fact. There's a report button on each post where you can alert the moderator if you feel people are insulting you (the red triangle) but really, you freaked out and made a scene over a plate of food.

[removed quote of and response to now-deleted post removed by the moderator]

You freely posted on FT announcing that you didn't like a meal that you didn't know before you ordered it at a foreign restaurant. You posted that you had freaked out when the restaurant refused to pay for your mistake. In posting you demonstrated behaviour that is abhorent to most decent people. Such behaviour brings down the quality of people that visit restaurants.

The topic as far as I can see was your behaviour when you eat out and has now changed into your lack of recognition about how bad it was. The issue you had raised was your behaviour and that is what is being commented on. No one responsing to that is being either disrespectful or off topic. Your response to these replies is what's likely to make things worst - nothing else!

I think most restaurants would give you the dish for free if you didn't like it, but it also depends how much of it you ate. Some people will eat half of the meal then say they don't like it just so they can get it for free.

I think most restaurants would give you the dish for free if you didn't like it, but it also depends how much of it you ate. Some people will eat half of the meal then say they don't like it just so they can get it for free.

Happens to you often?

I would never assume a restuarant would replace a meal if I didn't like it - if I decide to try something new and didn't like it, I would ask to order something else, or simply wait until I got home to eat if the delay would cause other diners with me inconvenience. I would expect to pay for any and every correctly prepared dish I order, but have been fortunate enough on a couple of occasions for the restaurant to say 'hey, no worries, let us bring you something you do like on us' because they believe the experience I have there is more important than the cost of the dish, in terms of future custom etc.

So you are saying that if you owned a restaurant and the customer returned a dish they didn't like after taking one bite you would have them pay for it?

If it was prepared correctly, then yes.

Buyer beware. If you feel like experimenting, be prepared to do so on your own dime unless it's a buffet.

Even then it's conceivable the server would describe the dish accurately and he wouldn't like it.

In that case it's clearly the customer's own problem and not the restaurant's. He should pay in that circumstance.

While the op has deleted his thread-opener, clearly the subject as detailed in the thread title is of interest, and I would invite thoughtful and civil conversation to continue among those that wish on the topic itself, even if not on the op's original post.

cblaisd
Moderator, Dining Buzz

Since the original post is now gone, I don't know what the problem is regarding having to pay for food you found inedible. If you don't like the order because the restaurant burned it or found some way of ruining it, then, yes, you should not have to pay for it. Frankly, I've never been to a restaurant that insisted that the customer should pay for it.

Let's say you order an entree that you can't stand, for example, because it has way too much black pepper and there was no mention of black pepper in its description. No decent restaurant would charge you no matter if it were a coffee shop or fancier restaurant. Again, I've never seen that as I have returned an entrée that has been drenched in black pepper and was never charged. The restaurant wanted me to order something I'd like so that we'd return.

Analise,

The OP went into a Vietnamese restaurant and instead of ordering his normal favourite dish decided to order something he'd never had before to see if he liked it. He took a mouthful and decided he didn't like it and demanded that the restaurant didn't charge him because he'd only taken a single mouthful. There was never a question that the meal that the restaurant prepared was in any way different to what it should have been - his complaint was it contained pickled vegetables which he didn't like.

When they refused to waive the charge but offered to reduce the charge to 50% he says he created a scene and in his own words "he freaked out" and so they agreed to waive the full charge. He posted here because he was indignant that they should consider charging and was originally seeking tea and sympathy and support for his position.

He then objected when people politely told him that they thought he was at fault and he then removed his post and complained to the mod. He claimed that responses he received were of a personals nature (they most certainly were not - you can see them all) and were therefore damaging FT. To the mods credit he hasn't sanctioned any reply that I can see but has instead rightly moved all remnants of the original post as he was I presume requested by the OP.

I hope that summarises the post in a fair and balanced way.

cblaisd has requested that the thread confines itself to the principle of whether it is reasonable for a customer to demand and/or expect a restaurant not to charge for a meal that is properly prepared and as prepared as desccribed in the menu, but simply because the customer has ordered something that he /she isn't familiar with and decides subsequently that he / she doesn't like.

cblaisd has requested that the thread confines itself to the principle of whether it is reasonable for a customer to demand and/or expect a restaurant not to charge for a meal that is properly prepared and as prepared as desccribed in the menu, but simply because the customer has ordered something that he /she isn't familiar with and decides subsequently that he / she doesn't like.So no discussion about whether the restaurant should charge you for an entrée if they ruin the dish....ok. Makes sense as it seems rather obvious that there should be no charge.

If it's a properly prepared meal and the customer doesn't like it, well, that's up to the restaurant management to decide whether to charge or not. I don't think it should be expected but it might be a smart thing to do if they did not charge the customer if they're hoping for repeat business. One could argue that this could be considered a cost of doing business.

If a customer throws a fit? Totally uncalled for.

If I order something and it was prepared properly, It is my mistake if I don't like it. I won't expect them to compensate me for my own mistake. The OP's entitlement is ridiculous.

Coming from Asia, I will never see myself eat at a restaurant, order a dish, find it worse than the other restaurant and demand a refund, saying the food sucks and they should learn to be a better cook before opening a restaurant :P.

If I order something and it was prepared properly, It is my mistake if I don't like it. I won't expect them to compensate me for my own mistake. The OP's entitlement is ridiculous.



What I think has increased the angst a touch here - is that having posted his idignation at having been asked to pay for the meal and receiving mostly disagreement with his stance he then seemed to have thought twice about the wisdom of posting such an opinion and instead of simply saying he'd reconsidered - instead he accused those that disagreed with him of flaming him postining himself as being the oppressed party!

All of the replies are still here for anyone to see whether he had been flamed.

It's really wonderful if you ask for something else in a restaurant, if during that exchange it becomes clear that the meal isn't to your taste. I guess us Brits would seek to reassure the restaurant that it simply wasn't to our taste and they had done nothing wrong. If they offered an alternative at no charge most Brits would feel very guilty and leave a bigger tip. Perhaps it's a culture difference?:confused:

What I think has increased the angst a touch here - is that having posted his idignation at having been asked to pay for the meal and receiving mostly disagreement with his stance he then seemed to have thought twice about the wisdom of posting such an opinion and instead of simply saying he'd reconsidered - instead he accused those that disagreed with him of flaming him postining himself as being the oppressed party!

All of the replies are still here for anyone to see whether he had been flamed.

It's really wonderful if you ask for something else in a restaurant, if during that exchange it becomes clear that the meal isn't to your taste. I guess us Brits would seek to reassure the restaurant that it simply wasn't to our taste and they had done nothing wrong. If they offered an alternative at no charge most Brits would feel very guilty and leave a bigger tip. Perhaps it's a culture difference?:confused:

Nail firmly on head IMO.^

I recently ordered Caesar's salad at a chain restaurant in London and got a plate of leaves with a cloyingly sweet salad cream (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salad_cream). I took one mouthful and decided that I didn't want another. Asked for the bill.

To her credit, the waitress noticed that I'd hardly eaten any of the salad and asked if there was something wrong with it. I told her the dressing was like a sweet salad cream and didn't meet my expectations of a Caesar's salad. She countered that there are different interpretations of the dish. I stated my opinion that replacing the savory Caesar's dressing with a sugary sweet salad cream was stretching things too far and it was quite the worst interpretation of a Caesar's salad that I'd had in all my experience of the dish.

To her credit she offered to replace the Caesar with another salad at no cost. I accepted this offer - and at this point I was pretty impressed with the service at a bog-standard chain restaurant.

The replacement salad also tasted like cr@p. I paid and left. But I did wonder ... If I also felt that the replacement salad was qualitatively different from what it was supposed to be, could I have sent that back too?

Perhaps it's a culture difference?:confused:

Or at least a difference of eras? (Not going to guess about yours, but in mine--:D )

There is a paradigm shift from your description of quietly waiting for the waiter to ask if anything is wrong with the unfinished meal (and then graciously responding, "Yes, there was, actually, somewhat") and remaining courteous, to what the OP described.

From personal restraint, and the civility that that phrase implies, to a threat to put the hapless restaurant on the Internet?

. . . a threat which might once, in less restrained times, have been considered blackmail?

All for what? The loss of personal dignity for a few dollars' purchase?

At least there is no embarrassment involved. It would be bad enough to have had an unenjoyable meal. One certainly would not wish embarrassment to the diner to follow, even if the diner is the one who has initiated a scene. :rolleyes:

[sniff :D ]

Or at least a difference of eras? (Not going to guess about yours, but in mine--:D )

There is a paradigm shift from your description of quietly waiting for the waiter to ask if anything is wrong with the unfinished meal (and then graciously responding, "Yes, there was, actually, somewhat") and remaining courteous, to what the OP described.


Correct but to ensure no misunderstanding - two completely different situations.

If there is something wrong with the way that the meal has been prepared - I promise you they will know immediately - and I'd expect it to be put right. I'd talk quietly certainly wouldn't make a scene for any reason out of respect to the other diners. It's simply bad manners to "freak out" in ANY situation.

The situation is completely different where you've simply decided that something you ordered that you aren't familiar with and decide you don't like. You simply order something else. I'd be completely stunned with the generousity of offering it for free - in fact I recall it happening once and refusing it and insisting I paid for it. I make it a habit to try new things - and that carries risks.

No other approach would work for me. I actually travel to Asia to seek out foods I don't recognise or understand and in particular those that look like I wouldn't like them to try out and learn. Sometimes, eating a single bite proves that the instinct was correct and I've chosen something nasty. More often you discover something you never thought you'd like - and love it. There's not much difference to this and what the OP did.

I guess there's another apsect to it that is entirely emotive and not logical. I accept that many find my attitude wrong. In the OP's case he visited a family restaurant who had arrived from Vietnam. I always tend to be overly indulgent with people that have made a real effort to extract themselves from a bad situation and move their lives across the world and start a business to support themselves. Perhaps it's my own heritage - but certainly almost ALL Americans should understand that imho. I almost feel that I am a guest in THEIR environment and not the other way round. To me this is what sort of makes this behaviour doubly wrong.

Perhaps it's a culture difference?:confused:No, it's not cultural. A restaurant making an accommodation to a customer by not charging her for a dish she didn't like is something for which the customer should tip more generously. One need not be of a particular nationality to come up with that. :p

I've only returned a meal once, at a French restaurant in Montreal. I had ordered the Entrée of Buffalo Ribs, and was pleasantly surprised by the size of the plate when it got there. I took one bite and almost gagged, as it was nearly all fat. I tossed the sauce to the side, and realized it was almost no meat and all fat. I called the waitress, and explained to her the situation. She tried to tell me that Buffalo Ribs are fatty (huh? In what world?), but when I showed her just how much fat there was she agreed it was abnormal and immediatly offered for me to choose something else from the menu.

I got the Duck Magret, which was delicious!

She didn't mention anything of the switchover being ''free of charge'' but I fully expected not to see it on my bill, as it was definitely a bad piece of meat they had served me. When I got the bill, I was indeed not charged for the duck.

I would NEVER expect not to pay for a dish if there was nothing wrong with it, and it was simply not to my taste.

Anywho, just my 2 cents!

+1 I would never consider returning a dish that I simply did not care for.

That is why I never understand why when they bring out wine they always give you a bit to sample first. Once I ask them to open the bottle, I feel like Im committed to paying for it.

The point of tasting the wine is not for you to see if you like it or not. It is for you to refuse it if it is corked.

I'm with everyone else here -- you ordered a dish, and didn't like it. It's not their fault that your palate was not a match for their cooking.

If I order something and it was prepared properly, It is my mistake if I don't like it. I won't expect them to compensate me for my own mistake. The OP's entitlement is ridiculous.

Coming from Asia, I will never see myself eat at a restaurant, order a dish, find it worse than the other restaurant and demand a refund, saying the food sucks and they should learn to be a better cook before opening a restaurant :P.

I was at a beach restaurant in the Philippines and ordered Pancakes. What was delivered was what I would call crepes (thin and rolled). I told them that I didn't want them and that I had order pancakes. The response of the 'manager' was "Well, this is how WE make pancakes." So, I presume in their mind the food was properly prepared. I asked my girlfriend (who btw, is an HRM graduate) what she thought - pancakes or crepes? She said they were crepes in her opinion.

Even though "It's not their fault that ... (my)... palate was not a match for their cooking." I felt and still feel completely justified in sending them back AND not paying for them.

The point of tasting the wine is not for you to see if you like it or not. It is for you to refuse it if it is corked.

As you know - it isn't neccesay to taste the wine to know it's corked.

In fact the reason most likely for this tradition emnates from medieval times in the uk. A host was expected to offer hospitality to passing strangers and he was expected to stand up and drink the mead or wine first to show that it hadn't been laced with poison and was therefore safe for the "guests" to drink. He would then lift the glass up higher to show that the level had gone down a bit - proving he had taken a gulp. Once the host had taken the first gulp - everyone else was reassured.

The rather ostentacious sipping and swilling was a later development of that early tradition. Obviously it doesn't matter to any degree about tasting it to see if it's corked - anyone opening the wine would be able to tell from simply sniffing the cork. And it's nothing to do with "try before you buy" - the flavour of this thread.

I have never returned a meal because I didn't like it. Certainly, if my steak was overcooked or if there was something wong with the food itself, other than me not liking it. Beyond that, I feel that I made an incorrect choice if I do not like the dish, and choose then to eat it or not to do so.

There has been a few times in which I got a meal that I did not like. But I was able to eat it and just suck it up. It was edible, but just not cooked right or did not taste right. I just wont come back again. (Usually the cheap places with dinners $10 to $15 or under.)

A lot of times, when I leave quite a bit of food behind, a server or manager would come over and ask about it. Most of the time it was because I was full and could not eat any more. But a couple times, it was because I did not like it. They offered to get me a new meal, free dessert, or something else. I always declined though.

I have ate at one place in which it was completely disgusting.. a deli in NY. I complained about it and not only did they remove the item from my bill, the offered me a replacement meal for free.

Years ago I was at the Planet Hollywood in San Diego, I ordered a burger with bleu cheese on it. I really like bleu cheese in salads and crumbled over various dishes.
I took one bite of the burger and it was terrible. It was prepared how I expected it to be.

It never even occurred to me to ask that it be taken off the bill because I didn't like it.

To the OP: I wouldn't make a habit out of "freaking out" in restaurants, you'd be surprised what a pissed off food server will do to your food. (I spent my high school and college years working in kitchens and have seen some very very disgusting stuff).

I was at a beach restaurant in the Philippines and ordered Pancakes. What was delivered was what I would call crepes (thin and rolled). I told them that I didn't want them and that I had order pancakes. The response of the 'manager' was "Well, this is how WE make pancakes." So, I presume in their mind the food was properly prepared. I asked my girlfriend (who btw, is an HRM graduate) what she thought - pancakes or crepes? She said they were crepes in her opinion.

Even though "It's not their fault that ... (my)... palate was not a match for their cooking." I felt and still feel completely justified in sending them back AND not paying for them.

But a crepe is a thin pancake - batter, in a frying pan or on a griddle, cooked thinly - even a frenchman will call if a pancake if they translate the word. In England, most pancakes are thin, they call thicker pancakes like you find at an American diner 'American style' pancakes - Americans add baking power, buttermilk etc, I certainly wouldn't call an American pancake a pancake without the country qualifier, they are not the same thing. Scotch pancakes are thicker but smaller - I've seen similar in size in the US called 'silver dollar pancakes'. If you order crispy duck in a chinese restaurant, do you expect it to come with American Diner breakfast pancakes or with very thin pancakes you can roll the meat in?

Maybe next time I am in an American diner I should refuse to pay for my pancakes because they are not like my mummy makes them.

I was at a beach restaurant in the Philippines and ordered Pancakes. What was delivered was what I would call crepes (thin and rolled). I told them that I didn't want them and that I had order pancakes. The response of the 'manager' was "Well, this is how WE make pancakes." So, I presume in their mind the food was properly prepared. I asked my girlfriend (who btw, is an HRM graduate) what she thought - pancakes or crepes? She said they were crepes in her opinion.

Even though "It's not their fault that ... (my)... palate was not a match for their cooking." I felt and still feel completely justified in sending them back AND not paying for them.

I must have misunderstood what your saying because it cannot be right.

Crepe is French for pancake. In France crepes can be very thin or quite thick. In the UK pancakes can be thick or thin. If you are only prepared to eat one type then clearly you should enquire before you order.

If I have understood you correctly - it is your position that every single restaurant or cafe or street hawker in any and every country in the world that you are not familiar with but might choose to honour with a visit at any time in the future, must only trade on the basis that they must be aware of the potential for you personally NOT to have sufficient knowledge of local terminology and be aware of your strongly held preferences without you telling them. They must be prepared to pay for what they sell that delights the local nationals - but if you don't approve because the term might have a differnet meaning than the one you presumed then they must pay for it out of their pockets?

May I enquire your nationality? Is it your presumption that unless every country adopts your standards then you will not pay? This is your genuine view of fairness?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/dining/14curious.html

Until I got to the end of the article I thought the photo was a bit of over-the-top molecular gastronomy (gone horribly wrong.)

...In France crepes can be very thin or quite thick.

And in one of my favorite Chinese restaurants, the Moo Shu Pork description includes the word "pancakes." I would be sore disappointed if out came a stack o' Waffle House-type ones.

And in one of my favorite Chinese restaurants, the Moo Shu Pork description includes the word "pancakes." I would be sore disappointed if out came a stack o' Waffle House-type ones.

Exactly. In the UK the word pancake includes what we would call a crepe etc.

I must admit I find the thread genuinely alarming.:(

Exactly. In the UK the word pancake includes what we would call a crepe etc.

I must admit I find the thread genuinely alarming.:(

I really don't. Most people are used to certain types of foods prepared a certain way and any decent amount of deviation can throw them for a loop.

Maybe next time I am in an American diner I should refuse to pay for my pancakes because they are not like my mummy makes them.

Maybe you should. Just make sure you don't eat them or "taste" them first.

And in one of my favorite Chinese restaurants, the Moo Shu Pork description includes the word "pancakes." I would be sore disappointed if out came a stack o' Waffle House-type ones.

As would I. I would also be quite disappointed if I was at the IHOP and mushu style pancakes came out when I ordered a short stack.

I must have misunderstood what your saying because it cannot be right.

Crepe is French for pancake. In France crepes can be very thin or quite thick. In the UK pancakes can be thick or thin. If you are only prepared to eat one type then clearly you should enquire before you order.



Yes, you misunderstood ... you neglected the part where I stated: I asked my girlfriend (who btw, is an HRM graduate) what she thought - pancakes or crepes? She said they were crepes in her opinion.

Since my girlfriend is a Filipina and a graduate of the University of Cebu Hotel and Restaurant Management (HRM) Program I think I will go with her opinion on what is "local" and/or acceptable when ordering food in the Philippines by name.



If I have understood you correctly - it is your position that every single restaurant or cafe or street hawker in any and every country in the world that you are not familiar with but might choose to honour with a visit at any time in the future, must only trade on the basis that they must be aware of the potential for you personally NOT to have sufficient knowledge of local terminology and be aware of your strongly held preferences without you telling them. They must be prepared to pay for what they sell that delights the local nationals - but if you don't approve because the term might have a differnet meaning than the one you presumed then they must pay for it out of their pockets?

Wow, this is a very large jump from a specific situation to every person in everyplace! So, I don't think you have "understood ... correctly". Oh, and you don't know what knowledge that I had in this circumstance. Once again a very large jump from a specific to a broad generalization. FYI, I lived in, worked in and travelled around the Philippines for many, many years (not days, weeks or months but YEARS). In all that time this particular instance was the only time I was served crepes when I ordered pancakes.

It seems to me that few have considered the possibility that the restaurant just made a mistake and didn't want to correct it. I can't tell you how many times I have been in a restaurant in Thailand and the wrong food was brought out. The (non-travelled) Thai nationals that I ate with always just accepted what was brought even if it was not what they ordered. How did I know it was not what they ordered? Well, besides the fact that I speak Thai, they would tell me that it wasn't what they ordered. When I asked why they didn't send it back they would say because they didn't want to cause problems. Whereas the (travelled) Thai nationals and I, on the other hand, sent back food that was not what we ordered. Of course the wait staff would always INSIST that is what we had ordered. So, in their mind, I presume the food was prepared properly. So, maybe we should have just accepted whatever was delivered because the restaurant staff said it was ok??!!

What I think has increased the angst a touch here - is that having posted his idignation at having been asked to pay for the meal and receiving mostly disagreement with his stance he then seemed to have thought twice about the wisdom of posting such an opinion and instead of simply saying he'd reconsidered - instead he accused those that disagreed with him of flaming him postining himself as being the oppressed party!

All of the replies are still here for anyone to see whether he had been flamed.

It's really wonderful if you ask for something else in a restaurant, if during that exchange it becomes clear that the meal isn't to your taste. I guess us Brits would seek to reassure the restaurant that it simply wasn't to our taste and they had done nothing wrong. If they offered an alternative at no charge most Brits would feel very guilty and leave a bigger tip. Perhaps it's a culture difference?:confused:

So you are saying that Brits leave bigger tips for bad food... the puzzle pieces are starting to fall into place:D

After a two-night stay for out-patient surgery we breakfasted in the WPB Red Carnation.
My salmon and eggs came with odiferous, miscolored salmon, so I sent the plate back.
It returned, obviously trimmed down to a slightly smaller portion, but also only slightly less odiferous and miscolored.
I sent the plate back AGAIN and asked for two eggs sunny-side up.
At check-out breakfast suddenly became complimentary.
We had a less than comfortable hurry to the airport because of the delay for brekky, but we'd go back to the Chesterfield otherwise.
>tsk!<

But a crepe is a thin pancake - batter, in a frying pan or on a griddle, cooked thinly - even a frenchman will call if a pancake if they translate the word. In England, most pancakes are thin, they call thicker pancakes like you find at an American diner 'American style' pancakes - Americans add baking power, buttermilk etc, I certainly wouldn't call an American pancake a pancake without the country qualifier, they are not the same thing. Scotch pancakes are thicker but smaller - I've seen similar in size in the US called 'silver dollar pancakes'. If you order crispy duck in a chinese restaurant, do you expect it to come with American Diner breakfast pancakes or with very thin pancakes you can roll the meat in?

Maybe next time I am in an American diner I should refuse to pay for my pancakes because they are not like my mummy makes them.

Sure, if you don't like them go ahead, most places in the states would gladly give you something else if you don't like it. It's not normally a big issue.

So you are saying that Brits leave bigger tips for bad food... the puzzle pieces are starting to fall into place:D

I'm suprised that the puzzle pieces are falling into place for you because you clearly don't understand what a tip is. The bill is primarily for the food. The tip is primarily your opportunity to indicate your appreciation of the service. And in the situation where the establishment had agreed to waive a charge for a meal that was correctly described and prepared but simply wasn't liked by a customer who was unfamiliar with what he'd ordered - then most decent people with manners and appreciation might leave a bigger tip to show appreciation for both the generous hospitality and the exceptional service.

From this thread you clearly still do not "get it".:(

But you accuse others of neglecting to say something but you negelected to state that your case is:


Since my girlfriend is a Filipina and a graduate of the University of Cebu Hotel and Restaurant Management (HRM) Program I think I will go with her opinion on what is "local" and/or acceptable when ordering food in the Philippines by name.

Even presuming what you say is true and presuming that she has actually run a restaurant rather than simply been to school then that still doesn't make your indisputably talented and knowledgeabe girlfriend the final arbiter and expert on pancakes and crepes and more importantly - of what should constitute your decent and acceptable behaviour when you receive something that others including the restaurant consider was accurately described. In any event she was passing an opinion that I'm sure she hoped would please her boyfriend.

As you listen to her advice, as a Filipino - she'll know about how people in poor and deprived countries rely on tips - and I'd love to hear what she thinks of your stance on tipping people that are poorly paid and serve you in comparatively poor countries you visit as indicated here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/16064034-post171.html). If she told you to leave a tip would you do what she had said then or is it just opinions that are convenient to your own pocket that you consider acceptable?

How on earth are employers expected to pay staff a living wage when foreigners refuse even to pay for the meals that they have ordered and are even too mean to leave the poorly paid staff a small tip if they've done something exceptional?

Sure, if you don't like them go ahead, most places in the states would gladly give you something else if you don't like it. It's not normally a big issue.

At first, when I read your post, I thought, No, this is not correct.

But then I realized that you seem to be saying that you have done this before, and that is how you have acquired the knowledge to say this.

So my question now is: How often have you requested that a restaurant replace a dish you have ordered and that the restaurant not charge you for it?

After many decades of restaurant dining, substantial travel and 5 years as the restaurant critic for a small city newspaper leave me with firm opinions on the subject.

A. The "Cafeteria Rule" - From street vendors or other purveyors where the food item/dish/meal is "on display", I order at my own risk.

B. Where there's a menu/chalkboard/etc. and the item(s) ordered arrive with substantial or glaring faults in composition and/or ingredients (or in some cases, unannounced levels of piquancy - If the chef's using Habaneros, let me know beforehand!), I'm quick (and precedent-conditioned) to raise the red flag of dissatisfaction, requiring either a replacement of the same or a substantially equal dish without additional charge or I'm "walking".

You would be amazed how quickly managers skip to avoid loud confrontations in earshot of other diners, even in furrin lands. I recall only two instances in which a restaurateur threatened to "call the law" (and did). Even a NYC cop was sympathetic to my complaint (obviously, it was not one of the places where he ate free), and went away laughing. In the other case, in Italy, the proprietor considered how ridiculous his position might seem to those witnessing it (and to the Carabinieri), and chose to hustle me out the door.

No, I haven't done it often nor recommend it as a frequent practice, but now and again, especially in fast food outlets, patrons willing to complain when complaint is deserved are meritorious and deserving of plaudits.

I'm completely .... well almost completely ..... speechless:eek: Another person who likes to make a scene to blackmail the establishment to give him a freeby.

Is it my imagination .... but have all of the people who share this mean-spirited approach from the same continent?:confused:

Perhaps it really is a culture thing.:)

Absolutely disgusting.

I am going to send this thread back to the kitchen ;) for a little while to cool.

cblaisd
Moderator, Dining Buzz