Cathay Pacific Asia Miles - Wine in Business class

Just landed from CDG in Biz with my wife.
Food was excellent, including a delightful and copious semi-cooked foie gras with figs. Service was outstanding throughout the flight. I like the privacy, mattress comfort, big screen/avod of the herringbone seat; of course poor storage/trays except when reclining (around head and shoulder). So excellent product altogether. BUT the wines are atrocious. They used to have a decent red bordeaux, but it has been replaced by a dirt-cheap Montagne-St Emilion (not even a Saint Emilion). The French white is a mediocre Sancerre (not even a burgundy). There was no wine of the month, and all 4 red/white wines are cheap and mediocre (below 100HKD retail price). These are economy-class wines that I would not dare serve to my wife in our daily home dinners. Having flown biz on JL, NH, SQ, TG, BA in the past couple of months, CX should be ashamed of what they are serving. Far below each of the other airlines. Its offering in F has also gone down dramatically.
My flight was again a great experience with a superb CX product, but why this inconsistency with wines/liquors. Does CX new management have no personal interest in wine? Do they believe that Hong Kong Chinese do not care about wine?

Just landed from CDG in Biz with my wife.
Food was excellent, including a delightful and copious semi-cooked foie gras with figs. Service was outstanding throughout the flight. I like the privacy, mattress comfort, big screen/avod of the herringbone seat; of course poor storage/trays except when reclining (around head and shoulder). So excellent product altogether. BUT the wines are atrocious. They used to have a decent red bordeaux, but it has been replaced by a dirt-cheap Montagne-St Emilion (not even a Saint Emilion). The French white is a mediocre Sancerre (not even a burgundy). There was no wine of the month, and all 4 red/white wines are cheap and mediocre (below 100HKD retail price). These are economy-class wines that I would not dare serve to my wife in our daily home dinners. Having flown biz on JL, NH, SQ, TG, BA in the past couple of months, CX should be ashamed of what they are serving. Far below each of the other airlines. Its offering in F has also gone down dramatically.
My flight was again a great experience with a superb CX product, but why this inconsistency with wines/liquors. Does CX new management have no personal interest in wine? Do they believe that Hong Kong Chinese do not care about wine?

brunos, you frequently bring this topic up...and I can't agree more. For an airline that is going to see more and more mainland guests, CX is kidding themselves if they think they can get away with poor wine quality. People (CX management included) may enjoy making fun of mainlanders, but the truth is consumers from anywhere become sophisticated rather quickly, with wine being no exception.

1.) In J: The wines are simply an abomination. CX generally tries to obfuscate the truth with ridiculous descriptions that make the wines sound sophisticated, but my experience is that they are usually horrendous - an experience repeated again, and again, and again. They are the types of wines that generally would appeal to the high school crowd looking to get drunk in the backyard. The only thing worth sipping tends to be the champagne, and after that I stick to Coke, Sprite and water. It was definitely a nice gesture when the Chateau Filhot (2eme Cru Sauternes) was introduced, I got that last month on a round trip to SFO not sure if it's still around. Not reassuring to hear that flights to/from CDG have terrible wine though. On the upside, I happen to be someone who thinks the new tumblers are a great improvement over the old wine glasses, and if only the wines could improve, the wine experience on CX could actually be quite good.

2.) In F: Huge disparity in wine types. CX seems to always include the "prestige" wines, which are their Krug and Chateau Lynch-Bages (and whose values are well known), but then they seem to throw the towel in with others. It's a shame, because the other wines don't even need to be much more expensive, but they do need more effort. For example, I think last time in F a few months ago I saw a Sebastiani cabernet (read: cheapo, nothing-special Sonoma County wine. Having drank a lot of California wines before, it's just a remarkably boring, plain-vanilla, high-distribution choice. If they're going to put a US$15 bottle of wine in F, I'd like to think at least some effort went in to choosing the cheap wine, instead of just picking the top choice in their price range on the distributor's list). I recall another time seeing a Napa chardonnay in F that was in the US$10-$15 retail range, and it was also an extremely high-distribution, boring, lame choice which was an oak bomb.

In F I find myself thinking they've got a budget, 80% of which gets filled up on the two expected expensive wines. Then, the next 15% goes to a Burgundy chardonnay (if it's there, in the situation above the poor quality California chardonnay replaced the Burgundy). Finally, for the other 2-4 wines there is about $20 left in the budget total for the rest of the wines, which they then just turn over to distributors to fill and the wine "consultants" put their rubber stamp on it.

Abomination would correctly describe the wines in business class. Was served a mediocre Kiwi Sauvignon Blanc which was while drinkable, tasted like another sub $100 bottle of SB made from NZ. I had a tandoori chicken entree as well and the chicken was pretty much rubber. Might've been my bad luck i guess.

This was HKG-BKK, and iirc, they used to serve more than a salad with nothing on it (mine was a mesculun with vinaigrette). Now that I think about it, if u ask me, its just economy class served on a plate is it not?

Would this be on purpose to increase the gulf in service and catering between J and F and hence CX's crazy way of justifying the price difference?

I'm no wine connosieur but i do love my champagnes, and has anyone noticed the billecart salmon tastes really different in the air than on ground?

On a separate note, if Emirates can serve Moet in economy class, then surely CX needs to adjust their catering.

Agreed, CX wine is ordinary to say the least. It shouldnt be too hard for an airline such as CX to have a lower level 1er cru in J.

As to the food, why do they often serve an entree that has a heavy salad component, along with a side salad?

...I'm no wine connosieur but i do love my champagnes, and has anyone noticed the billecart salmon tastes really different in the air than on ground?....Some wines travel better than others; things that affect the taste -- sometimes dramatically, for example bringing out a metallic aftertaste -- are vibration and temperature change; altitude (at 7000 feet pressurization) is less of a factor. Billecart has a crisp style with a clean palate and this is often changed by vibration -- though conditions on any airplane. Other champagnes in a more floral style, for example Perrier-Jouet, do much better in the air. Billecart is great value on the ground, but not for air service, imho.

Completely agree with the above comment regarding Billecart being excellent on the ground and not in the air.

Conclusion is Billecart Salmon and Pressurized cabins don't mix.

we disagree on many things but most certainly not this topic. i hope CX is reading since their wine selections SUCK!! in J.

i have come to only drink Champange and port on CX/KA since I do agree the wine selections are terrible in J. the sad thing is that it seems to be a race to the bottom on BA/CX/AA/AC in this area - they all suck as of late.

all, with the exception of the champange, are not very good. the lounge selections for CX/KA are ever worse - again, save and except for the Lanson these days in the lounges in HKG.

from what i can gather from wine-searcher...most CX J selections are between about US$8-16 per bottle. most on the lower side and even if one can find the same wine at retail. given how much CX buys and/or the possibility that it might be contracted production for CX only, I suspect that the price of wine per bottle in J is around the 6-7US$ range.

this is not to say that only price matters, however, CX has huge buying power and should be able to source something very nice for under $20 but clearly they are cutting as many corners as they can and perhaps think that people do not notice...pehaps most do not, but clearly there are many of us that do.

oh well, at least with champange, you know what you are getting although AC actually serves sparkling wine on the ground on its flights in J. NOW THIS is cheap!!

some can probably confirm, but it may be that some of the bottles may be contracted to be produced for CX only. it is rather hard to get information on some of the wines they serve.

Guys, you can also leave your wine feedbacks here: http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_BH/contactus/customerrelations

Hopefully with enough feedback, they will improve the wine selection. It's like in Shawshank Redemption, when Andy writes to the State to request money for expanding the library.

I will do my part and send two feedbacks (1 feedback per leg) as well, since I travelled in J 2 weeks ago.

Don't lose perspective - Business class is designed for Business travelers and most business travelers care primarily about ability to sleep and work. It's somewhat understandable that there isn't much money or effort put into the catering. I think if CX determined that they were losing high-fare business class pax to competitors they might up the ante, but complaints from pax on $2-3k r/t fares ain't gonna do it.

They are the types of wines that generally would appeal to the high school crowd looking to get drunk in the backyard.

...Don't be silly. That's what Franzia (ie. the boxed stuff) is for! :D

Don't lose perspective - Business class is designed for Business travelers and most business travelers care primarily about ability to sleep and work. It's somewhat understandable that there isn't much money or effort put into the catering. I think if CX determined that they were losing high-fare business class pax to competitors they might up the ante, but complaints from pax on $2-3k r/t fares ain't gonna do it.

That made sense. But are you saying there's nothing we can do so do nothing?

That made sense. But are you saying there's nothing we can do so do nothing?
I'm saying keep your expectations in check.

I'm saying keep your expectations in check.

LOL. ok. :D

If enough wine aficionados were on the same flight together, perhaps some good wine could be carried onboard by one or more of the members? That could make for a fantastic trip! @:-)

Imagine: A quick call to CX to get the menu in advance, a few hours spent pondering the selection of wines to bring, and then a bunch of us board carrying a selection tailored to the menu choices on that flight.

That would be a LOT of fun!

FV

PS. I happen to know that at least one of the posters in this thread stocks an excellent private cellar, so all the more reason to give this idea a go! :D

...Don't be silly. That's what Franzia (ie. the boxed stuff) is for! :D

Oh no...CX might get ideas now. Especially since an open box of wine can be used on the next sector as there isn't a way to tamper with the contents.

Don't lose perspective - Business class is designed for Business travelers and most business travelers care primarily about ability to sleep and work. It's somewhat understandable that there isn't much money or effort put into the catering. I think if CX determined that they were losing high-fare business class pax to competitors they might up the ante, but complaints from pax on $2-3k r/t fares ain't gonna do it.

I respectfully disagree. We're not talking about Air Asia here. CX is a premium airline. If they can serve Lanson and Moet in their Business Lounges, I cant see why a couple of US $20 bottles of wine among 40+ passengers, paying US$ 3,000 and over for a ticket is an unreasonable expectation, particularly given that CX markets itself as a premium product in all other regards.

Franzia and Carlo Rossi, here we come. *makes diving into a wall and crashing sound*

Don't lose perspective - Business class is designed for Business travelers and most business travelers care primarily about ability to sleep and work. It's somewhat understandable that there isn't much money or effort put into the catering. I think if CX determined that they were losing high-fare business class pax to competitors they might up the ante, but complaints from pax on $2-3k r/t fares ain't gonna do it. so why bother with champange/port then when sparkling wine should fit the bill...

Don't lose perspective - Business class is designed for Business travelers and most business travelers care primarily about ability to sleep and work. It's somewhat understandable that there isn't much money or effort put into the catering. I think if CX determined that they were losing high-fare business class pax to competitors they might up the ante, but complaints from pax on $2-3k r/t fares ain't gonna do it.

Sorry to disappoint you but you cannot find biz ticket to Europe for less than US$4,500-5,000 those days, and many pay more. Getting mediocre wines on a biz flight to Cebu is OK. But getting wines/liquors much inferior to what is served by competition to Europe is disappointing and the low point of the overall CX product. In the recent past, C fares have shot up (no more of these great deals available in 2009 and earluy2010)) and wine quality has shot down.
I understand that this is a very minor point for most posters who seem to focus only on food not drinks. But it is significant to me and the lowest mark of an otherwise excellent product. Quite surprising to see that the other airlines in the region (SQ, OZ, TG, NH,..., even mainland airlines) serve much better wines.

... then all of those dissatisfied should (in addition to complaining here) most certainly should take the time and effort to write, email, call and do whatever else to get enough voices heard. Enough voices will make them reconsider

Sorry to disappoint you but you cannot find biz ticket to Europe for less than US$4,500-5,000 those days, and many pay more. I'm not disappointed, but this guy (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cathay-pacific-asia-miles/1199554-too-excited-start-first-long-haul-cx-c.html) might be.

so why bother with champange/port then when sparkling wine should fit the bill...Because you don't need a palate to know that sparkling wine is "cheap" (even though I've had some very good California sparklings). Much easier to obfuscate in wine especially since most pax aren't drinking more than one. What champagne exactly are they serving these days in J?

...particularly given that CX markets itself as a premium product in all other regards.I'm curious as to how exactly CX markets itself as any more premium than any other full service global/long-haul airline serving the region. In New York I think most of the marketing focuses on frequency to HKG.

I'm curious as to how exactly CX markets itself as any more premium than any other full service global/long-haul airline serving the region. In New York I think most of the marketing focuses on frequency to HKG.

I suppose it's not even how they explicitly market themselves; rather, CX has already reached the level where it is known they are a 5-star, top tier airline. People have certain expectations when they book a ticket with Cathay. Even in the post/ thread you linked to earlier, people get excited to fly with Cathay. This sort of "norm" is more valuable than any form of advertising, as it's already built into us! I suppose it's not unfair to expect more from CX in every aspect.

I'm not disappointed, but this guy (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cathay-pacific-asia-miles/1199554-too-excited-start-first-long-haul-cx-c.html) might be.

Because you don't need a palate to know that sparkling wine is "cheap" (even though I've had some very good California sparklings). Much easier to obfuscate in wine especially since most pax aren't drinking more than one. What champagne exactly are they serving these days in J?

I'm curious as to how exactly CX markets itself as any more premium than any other full service global/long-haul airline serving the region. In New York I think most of the marketing focuses on frequency to HKG.

i find your comments interesting given you do not even know what CX is serving these days.

I suppose it's not even how they explicitly market themselves; rather, CX has already reached the level where it is known they are a 5-star, top tier airline. People have certain expectations when they book a ticket with Cathay. Even in the post/ thread you linked to earlier, people get excited to fly with Cathay. This sort of "norm" is more valuable than any form of advertising, as it's already built into us! I suppose it's not unfair to expect more from CX in every aspect.What I hear from that is that a lot of people have apparently drunk a lot of Kool-Aid. Skytrax overall 5-star rating seems somewhat subjective, but it looks like CX's business class is firmly a four-star (http://www.airlinequality.com/Airlines/CX.htm) product.

i find your comments interesting given you do not even know what CX is serving these days.What's interesting about my comments and what does asking about today's champagne have to do with anything? I flew CX quite frequently 2-3 years ago when I was going to Asia a lot for work. I didn't think their J class was anything overly special then, other than being relatively early to market with flat bed seats and direct aisle access. For various considerations, I'd fly both CX and CO and CO is better in some regards (it also gets four-stars (http://www.airlinequality.com/Airlines/CO.htm) for int'l biz class).

Now, maybe the wine really is pi55 today, then I'll retract some of my statements. But for the time being I still think people's expectations of business class (especially in a 3 class product) are too elevated.

What I hear from that is that a lot of people have apparently drunk a lot of Kool-Aid. Skytrax overall 5-star rating seems somewhat subjective, but it looks like CX's business class is firmly a four-star (http://www.airlinequality.com/Airlines/CX.htm) product.

What's interesting about my comments and what does asking about today's champagne have to do with anything? I flew CX quite frequently 2-3 years ago when I was going to Asia a lot for work. I didn't think their J class was anything overly special then, other than being relatively early to market with flat bed seats and direct aisle access. For various considerations, I'd fly both CX and CO and CO is better in some regards (it also gets four-stars (http://www.airlinequality.com/Airlines/CO.htm) for int'l biz class).

Now, maybe the wine really is pi55 today, then I'll retract some of my statements. But for the time being I still think people's expectations of business class (especially in a 3 class product) are too elevated.

why don't you do the research yourself if you think we are all nuts. i mean the menu threads have more than ample information on the same as Carfield does put a huge amount of effort into the same. then compare what they were serving in 2006 or 2007....in fact, i think the 2011 menu thread is on the first page even.

I suppose it's not even how they explicitly market themselves; rather, CX has already reached the level where it is known they are a 5-star, top tier airline. People have certain expectations when they book a ticket with Cathay. Even in the post/ thread you linked to earlier, people get excited to fly with Cathay. This sort of "norm" is more valuable than any form of advertising, as it's already built into us! I suppose it's not unfair to expect more from CX in every aspect.

I think a lot of people get excited to fly CX because they are sick of putting up with the substandard products offered by many US and European Airlines. Service levels, Airport experience (esp in the US) etc...

...let's all relax now... and take a deep breath

I think a lot of people get excited to fly CX because they are sick of putting up with the substandard products offered by many US and European Airlines. Service levels, Airport experience (esp in the US) etc.

+1 to that. If there is anything absolutely more catastrophic than CX's wine selection in J class, it is US mainline airlines in general!

...let's all relax now... and take a deep breathI know, like, some people are taking this stuff way too seriously. :rolleyes: