California - Help - The perfect California trip

With our first F flights booked, I am now keen to start planning an itinerary for what is likely to be a once in a lifetime holiday. The West Coast has so much to offer, and I am looking for some suggestions and recommendations on a plan of action. Perhaps more suited to the California forum, I suspect the advice I could get here is likely to be more worthy having seen the high calibre of responses to similar requests.

My 3 friends and I have 18 days on the West Coast in August, flying into LAX and out of SFO. With the help of the BA forum, this trip which we have talked about for many years will start and finish in FIRST, so now I need to get the bit in between up to standard.

We want to base our selves in LA/So Cal, it is the one part of the West Coast I am familiar with although I could still use advice as I will need to do the ‘tourist thing’ for my Friends having maybe grown apart from it myself. We plan on doing a long weekend in Vegas, including a visit to the Grand Canyon, and taking PCH up to San Fran. I would love to visit Yosemite however with the time I would like to spend in So Cal, I am unsure if we could manage it.

A rough itinerary I currently have in my mind is as follows:

Day 1(Fri): Land at LAX, pick up rental car for a week or 2, stay with family friends in East LA
Day 2: Hollywood sightseeing, stay at the Andaz WeHo where we have a Suite pre-paid for at a very affordable rate thanks to a generous FT friend. A night out on the strip hoping we have conquered the Jet lag quick enough
Day 3: Santa Monica, Venice, Hollywood. Have a reservation at the W Westwood
Day 4: No plans… possibly Universal Studios
Day 5: Have a reservation at the Hyatt Huntington Beach for 2 nights
Day 6: Huntington Beach
Day 7: No plans….
Day 8(Fri): Drive to Las Vegas for the weekend, how is the drive? Where should we stay?… this is my first time to Sin City. Should we return the car or hold on to it?
Day 9: LAS
Day 10: LAS
Day 11: Grand Canyon… should we drive or get a tour?
Day 12: Drive or fly back to LA pending on rental car status (W Hollywood res. for 3 nights)
Day 13: Disneyland (for my friends;)) (
Day 14: La Jolla/San Diego
Day 15 (Fri): Final Day in LA
Day 16: PCH
Day 17-19: SFO, we have a reservation at the W, I am guessing we could loose the car?

How does this sound? Outwith the Andaz on our second evening, nothing is confirmed and this is all easily changeable, W Hotels were only booked as the cheap points availability was there. I really do not know how to play it with rental cars and Las Vegas. Our first weekend will obviously be in LA, and our last in or heading towards San Fran per our flights meaning Las Vegas will have to be the middle. Would welcome any advice on things to do and see on PCH and in San Fran, aswell as less obvious recommendations for LA.

Also, to keep it semi on topic... Flying F, we will have Quintessentially membership; is there any way this service could enhance our trip?

I appreciate I am being vague, the Grand Canyon or Las Vegas Hotel suggestions alone could merit their own thread.

Many thanks

You can do a bus trip from San Francisco to Yosemite and back in a day. I've done it, and whilst it's a log time on the bus it was well worth it.

In San Francisco go out to Alcatraz and pick up the free audio tour guide.

Wine tasting is great too, and a trip to Sausalito is well worth it.

There's also Muir Woods if you don't get to Yosemite, it's a lot smaller but again I enjoyed it.

Get a muni pass for getting around San Francisco, real cheap if you decide on a few cable car trips.

If you're staying in WEHO, The Abbey is a great bar and the food is great too.

In LA I always end up at the Getty Museum, free to enter you just pay $15 to park. The buildings are great and the views on a clear day outstanding.

We spent one night in Vegas and it was plenty. Drive to the Grand Canyon but don't go there and back in a day - you will be tempted to go only as far as the privately owned Skywalk but the public-access South Rim is much better. Pause en-route at the Hoover Dam. Use the other spare day/night for Death Valley, maybe with a swing up to Bishop, Bristlecone Pines, Bodie and Lake Mono. But we prefer the great American outdoors to synthetic sleaze and YMMV.

As ever a short run here before moving on to the California forum for further expert input.

Swanhunter
Moderator, BAEC

Hi Pazza, California is quite an amazing state, there is such a variety unlike any other state I would guess.
Before getting really stuck into the detail, I have another suggestion, but it does mean forgoing the PCH.
If you can take in San Diego before going to Vegas, you can go straight from Vegas to San Fran. In fact, Vegas hotels are much cheaper during the week, so maybe consider going on the Monday?
From Vegas you can then drive through Death Valley (although it would be hotter than hell in August!), the sunrise/sunset in DV is something to behold. From DV you can drive north and then accross the Tioga pass into Yosemite. You could then spend a couple of nights in Yosemite.
If you have time I'd then suggest going to Sonoma to spend a day in the wine country before heading over the Golden Gate bridge for San Fran.
Its a shame to miss out on the PCH, but I did this trip above (in reverse, and in November) and it was very cool.
We took a helicopter tour from LV to the Grand Canyon. This saves a lot of time, and we got fantastic views of the Strip, lake Mead, and Hoover Dam. Unfortunately the canyon was a bit of a let down for me, because we only landed in the western section. I don't think choppers are allowed to fly over the southern rim (the really wide bit). However I think its quite a long road trip to get to that part from LV.

During your time in LA, you wish to try to Warner Brothers VIP Tour. It is Burbank which is just slightly further than Hollywood.

If you like movies and American TV, you get to see some of the sets like the outside scenes of Desperate Housewives, etc. They take you around the sets and sound studios in a large golf buggy with about 12 people. If you take the lunch tour, you may even see a celebrity or two if you are that way inclined. We had lunch next to Michael Boulton.

Unlike Universal Studios which is really a theme park with rides, the Warner Brothers takes you to sets where they really do make movies and tv shows. Now thats Hollywood.

Regarding the car, hold on to it since it is just for a couple of days. Las Vegas is in Nevada not California so it is a bit more hassle with one way rentals given the state licence plates (twice). You might not use the car in LAS given most folks takes taxis or walk. Still, if you want visit the Premium Shopping Outlets or the old downtown area, a car can be useful.

One very interesting stop along the PCH is Heart Castle. It is a very over the top mansion not a castle. However, you have to pre-book a tour time if you do not wish to hang around waiting for the next available tour. Remember to open your car window when you drive through Gilroy (you'll know why when you get there!)

I must admit, I am surprise by all the hotel changes even within the Los Angeles area. I do not like packing and unpacking that much - too much like work trips.

Just remember the drive to Disneyland from West Hollywood will take awhile to drive to. It is the drive back that is very very tiring after spending a full day at the Disneyland. I have never stayed in Arnheim and have always driven from West Hollywood so I know.

I would agree that splurging for a helicopter ride is the best way to fully take on the full size of the Grand Canyon. Choose one where the helicopter stops by the edge or lets you off to go on the river; which gets you appreciate the full height of the canyon.

I do have one concern with your itinerary - you have no left time to rest! You will need a holiday after your holiday

Congrats on the F tickets and the planned trip!

Just a few remarks from someone living in southern California:

1) What is the attraction to Huntington Beach? I live nearby and I would save at least 1 (valuable) day for something else, it just doesn't seem that unique to me. Perhaps someone can correct me here.

2) Grand Canyon: Can be worthwhile but it is a LONG haul from Vegas for 1 day. If you go at all, I suggest staying one night at the NORTH rim. It is far less crowded and the lodge is a historic building right on the edge of the canyon. Don't overlook Zion National Park and Bryce Canyon National Park in southern Utah, they are also close to Vegas for an overnight trip! I don't think you would regret going to any or all of these places, assuming you and your friends want some natural beauty.

3) La Jolla/San Diego: Totally worth it for a day trip, we do this all the time. I'd suggest the Cottage in La Jolla for breakfast (go early, it is popular). The San Diego Zoo is one of the best in the country and good for at least several hours. It has an affiliated Safari Park near Escondido which is also excellent. Also nearby is the Stone brewery if you are into American craft beer, the restaurant is beautiful and pretty good.

4) Yosemite: So worth it! Keep in mind that in August a lot of the waterfalls will be low flow/dry. Still, the valley is one of the most beautiful places on earth IMO and should not be missed. An interesting drive would be to go north from Vegas and through the high road (highway 120) into Yosemite. You could stay one night and then drive back to LA in the afternoon the next day. Only downside is that during summer it can be very crowded and almost everything is booked fully.

5) About your PCH drive: Also very worthwhile, the central coast is great! Make sure to check road conditions online before you leave as the highway is currently closed for at least a month due to a collapse (winter rainstorms). Big Sur is one of my favorite places anywhere and a great place to stop for lunch (Sierra Mar, Nepenthe, Deetjen's are all great, Sierra Mar my favorite). Monterey and Carmel offer a swankier alternative if that is your thing.

6) Vegas: First you should know that Vegas in August will be absurdly hot (38+), so plan accordingly. I love Wynn/Encore but it really depends on what you are going to Vegas for. We like it for good food and great rooms, but it seems a bit dull and expensive for gambling. I highly recommend the "Premium Outlets" a few miles north of the strip.

Feel free to PM me.

If you're planning to stay overnight at the Grand Canyon (your itinerary suggests you are) now is not early to book a room if you wish to stay at the rim itself (such as El Tovar, the Bright Angel or Kachina Lodges, etc). There are limited lodging options there and they book up far in advance.

Most alternatives to staying at the rim itself (for example, Williams, Arizona) are horrible and you might be in for a bit of culture shock at how bad the accommodations and those areas can be.

Hi Pazza, California is quite an amazing state, there is such a variety unlike any other state I would guess.
Before getting really stuck into the detail, I have another suggestion, but it does mean forgoing the PCH.
If you can take in San Diego before going to Vegas, you can go straight from Vegas to San Fran. In fact, Vegas hotels are much cheaper during the week, so maybe consider going on the Monday?
From Vegas you can then drive through Death Valley (although it would be hotter than hell in August!), the sunrise/sunset in DV is something to behold. From DV you can drive north and then accross the Tioga pass into Yosemite. You could then spend a couple of nights in Yosemite.
If you have time I'd then suggest going to Sonoma to spend a day in the wine country before heading over the Golden Gate bridge for San Fran.
Its a shame to miss out on the PCH, but I did this trip above (in reverse, and in November) and it was very cool.
We took a helicopter tour from LV to the Grand Canyon. This saves a lot of time, and we got fantastic views of the Strip, lake Mead, and Hoover Dam. Unfortunately the canyon was a bit of a let down for me, because we only landed in the western section. I don't think choppers are allowed to fly over the southern rim (the really wide bit). However I think its quite a long road trip to get to that part from LV.

I second what britbronco22 said.

I lived in SF for four years, and visited Yosemite numerous times - it really would be a shame to miss it. And the drive from Vegas through Death Valley and Yosemite to SF is fantastic. I love the Pacific Highway, but honestly think this is even better - Tioga pass, from between the desert and the mountains is amazing.

I did this route in reverse when we left SF, and it was the experience of a lifetime - we actually did a coast-to-coast road-trip (SF-Yosemite-Vegas-Grand Canyon-NM-TX-LA(New Orleans)-TN(Memphis/Nashville)-DC-NYC) and I can honestly say the drive through Yosemite and Death Valley to Vegas was the best part ^

Once you get to SF (regardless of the above), I'd recommend keeping the car for a day. You can drive up to Twin Peaks for amazing views over the City (GG to Bay Bridge panorama), drive out over Golden Gate itself (always fun) and take the first left (signposted for PCH) and head for Point Bonita - an old Lighthouse accessed by a rope bridge and fabulous views back to GG bridge.

Also do the SF hills to pretend you're Steve McQueen in Bullitt - join the queue to drive down Lombard (from Hyde to Leavenworth), but then drive back round the block and go down Filbert instead - you'll understand once you've been there :D

Definitely do Alcatraz, and if you have time (and the weather holds) hire bikes and cycle across GG and round to Sausalito, stop for some lunch and get the ferry back to SF.

Ah, nostalgia :)

tf

Where in ELA?
Your age group?
Month?
Are you going to do the night life?
Interests? Food, is it important?

I noticed that you are spend quite a few one nighters. It would help me to guide you if you answer those questions... You are the "wild and crazy" guys aren't you???? Maybe I will send you to a monastery? Socal has lots of beautiful ones ;), for real. Lots of missions. How about Mission viejo?

Take the time to drive Highway 1 along the Pacific coast, the area down from 30 or so miles South of San Francisco to about San Luis Obispo is the most beautiful piece of this planet I have ever seen.

Consider taking two days for LA - SF on the PCH.

Detour through Santa Barbara, Morro Bay, Carmel, Monterey, Santa Cruz, Half Moon Bay. Stay overnight in Carmel? Lots to explore. Note that PCH is (was?) closed right now due to slide, verify conditions CalTrans website or 800-GAS-ROAD.

Great choice, we've done BA F and Calinfornia for the past 3 years each summer and it never gets boring!!

Yosemite is so worth a visit- hire bikes and explore the trails on your own. We had a picnic when we went, it's simply stunning place with waterfalls and the giant redwoods too. I can reccomend Tenya Lodge in Yosemite. Our car had a flat tyre when we got there and they arranged a replacement and were just generally brilliant!

We love Newport Beach if whilst you're in the LA area, great beaches and just generally a nice area to visit (We normally split three weeks between there and the Hills).

Santa Barbara is another amazing place- the scenery is fantastic and the people are so genuinely warm and kind. There I can reccomend the Four Seasons if you want a really stunning place to stay. The whole hotel's set like a rustic Mexican Villa (that is a compliment, trust me) and you get the impression that everyone wants you to have a really great stay!

Whilst I'm on the topic let me reccomend at least one night in Beverly Hills ( We love it so much it's normally more like a week) staying at the Wilshire. Such a brilliant place and another incredible hotel ( you have to try the best steaks ever at 'Cut' in the hotel -WOW! :D

Anyway, have fun It's an incredible area!! Now I can't wait for next summer!!

ps. A trip report wouldn't go amiss ;)

A few remarks as well:

1. I don't care how good of friends they are, spending the night in East LA is not worth it (depending on what you consider East LA).

2. As someone who loves in LA, I caution those who enjoy culture, sophistication and high quality people and experiences to spend as little time here as possible. Go to SAN for some relaxation and beaches, LAS for some nightlife and gaming (if that's your thing) and spend the rest of the time in NorCal. You can spend a few days in wine country and the rest of the time exploring SF. If you get bored, you're a quick hop up to SEA on AS.

3. Depending on what time you'll be arriving at LAX, have a driver meet you and pick up your rental car the following day at a branch location. Getting out of there and to anywhere at the wrong time of day is hell on earth (then again, from my POV, so is living in LA ;)).

4. I personally would only do the trip to GC and LAS by car one-way. Drive out, then fly back, make sure you arrive at the right time (like 11am), pick up a car at LAX and shoot right up the PCH for NorCal.

5. Whatever you do, enjoy the trip!

Having done the PCH last summer from San Diego to SFO I'd suggest another route into the SFO area and then drive south to Big Sur and back again to Carmel/Monterey. This is the best part of the PCH and it's much better to drive the PCH north to south as getting to the scenic view stops will be much easier - ie you don't have to cross over the road twice to stop, if that makes sense.

BTW and IMHO the Amalfi Coast in Italy beats the pants of the PCH (*dons flack jacket and takes cover*).

The weather can also be poor in NoCal in August - we had cool drizzle in Monterey - and the SFO fog for 2 out of 3 days. Can recommend the Segway tour in SFO but bring cool weather gear and gloves!

Day 8(Fri): Drive to Las Vegas for the weekend, how is the drive? Where should we stay?… this is my first time to Sin City. Should we return the car or hold on to it?

I would drive to Vegas, just because it's a reasonably fun thing to do once. (it gets old if you do it a lot, because it's hundreds of miles of empty desert). A few things, though; it will be VERY hot in the desert in August (say, 45C/112F). Normally I would recommend driving up there at night, because it's fun to see the city of lights appear out of the darkness. But I would not drive from LA to Vegas on a Friday evening as the road will be crowded. Either go in the daytime or the middle of the night.

It will be cheaper for 4 of you to drive than fly. There shouldn't be any issues taking the car across state lines, and having a CA-registered car may get you through the California Agriculture Inspection faster on the drive back. (oddly, though, the car you rent in California may actually have Arizona plates, because it's cheaper to register cars there)

My 2 cents:


Day 1(Fri): Land at LAX, pick up rental car (make sure it is a convertible!) for a week or 2, stay with family friends in East LA
Day 2: Hollywood sightseeing, stay at the Andaz WeHo where we have a Suite pre-paid for at a very affordable rate thanks to a generous FT friend. A night out on the strip hoping we have conquered the Jet lag quick enough
Day 3: Santa Monica, Venice, Hollywood. Have a reservation at the W Westwood
Day 4 to 7: Huntington beach = no good. You might want to do something else like leave for Vegas early and keep driving till you get to Springdale next to Zion Ntl Park (http://henkybaby.blogspot.com/2010/04/zion.html). Get a room at the Desert Pearl Inn (http://desertpearl.com/) and use it as a base to discover Utah and the parks.
Day 8(Fri): Drive to Las Vegas. Where should we stay?… this is my first time to Sin City. Should we return the car or hold on to it? Keep the car. Stay in the Encore by Wynn if you can afford it. If you want to spend your money on better things the Staybridge Suites (http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g45963-d1197075-Reviews-Staybridge_Suites_Las_Vegas-Las_Vegas_Nevada.html) are the very best choice in Vegas.
Day 9: LAS
Day 10: No more LAS... Drive to Grand Canyon and try to get a room at the El Tovar Hotel (http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g143028-d73444-Reviews-El_Tovar_Hotel-Grand_Canyon_National_Park_Arizona.html) on the edge. It is quite a drive but an incredibly scenic one (http://henkybaby.blogspot.com/2010/04/beautiful-bad-day.html). Make sure you arrive at GC before sunset though. Spectacular.
Day 11: Grand Canyon; drive to the nearest airport, ditch the car and fly to SFO
Day 12:15: Rent a new car (most definitely a convertible!) and stay in SFO for a couple of days. You should really do a overnighter in Yosemite...
Day 15/16: PCH (http://henkybaby.blogspot.com/2010/04/highway-1-from-passenger-seat.html) with an overnighter in either Big Sur or Carmel.
Day 17-19: Do the LA thing again. If you must. You can also keep going to La Jolla... Ditch the car there and fly back to LAX.

Driving from Vegas to SFO is quite possible one of the best drives out there. LA to Vegas not so much. Lots and lots of traffic jams on a Friday and few scenic parts. So you might want to fly to the Grand Canyon from LA and shuffle the route a bit. Drive back from the Grand Canyon via Springdale, Vegas, Yosemite to SFO.

I have done this dozens of times. If you need advice, don't hesitate to contact me.

Is it churlish of me to be somewhat disappointed by the contrast in number of responses to this thread on the BA board vs my vaguely-kinda-sorta-similar thread (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/los-angeles/1196708-advice-sought-split-first-trip-la.html) on the LA board? :( (I suspect the answer is yes; nonetheless this has a fair amount of info I can use too, so thanks BA board ^)

Several people already mentioned Alcatraz, I would like to recommend the night tour (assuming it runs in August, I went in November so it was dark by 5.30pm as I recall)

Pre-book Alcatraz tours – often not possible to purchase on the day.

Agree in LA the Getty Museum is a great visit (although our SatNav ended up taking us somewhere altogether different!).

Also in LA you may want to see what concerts are on at the Hollywood Bowl – we went to the opening night of the season and had Lizza Minelli, James Galway and BB King! What an unusual line-up!

We went to Warner Brothers and were really disappointed, so on that basis I’d definitely recommend Universal Studios. I think KenJohn is mistaken as Depsarate Housewifes is filmed at Universal not Warner: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desperate_Housewives.

If you’re European you can probably find more history under your finger nail than in Hearst Castle – I’d avoid it.

Yosemite is great and, if you’re going to visit a couple of other National Parks it may be worth getting a membership.

In Vegas I would definitely recommend the Bellagio, with a fountain view room – an unforgettable experience.

I agree with much of what HenkyBaby says, but if you are renting a convertible make sure that your luggage will fit in the boot/trunk with the top down! We’ve made that schoolboy error before :(

if you are renting a convertible make sure that your luggage will fit in the boot/trunk with the top down! We’ve made that schoolboy error before :(

Indeed. But adapt your packing to the car, not vice versa. This all is so much more impressive in a open top.

Most of my experience of California is in and around San Francisco, so i'll concentrate my comments there.

San Francisco is a great city just to walk about it, or hire bikes and cycle along and over the Gold Gate Bridge, down to Sausilito and then catch the ferry back over the Fishermans Wharf with decent views of Alcatraz on the way back. Or, do what a colleague and I did, and walk the 13 miles from Union Square, over the bridge and down to Sausilito!

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet, but if you've not done the Cable Car (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_cable_car_system) rides in SF, you have to do that.

Take a trip to Lombard Street (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lombard_Street_%28San_Francisco%29), great to drive down if you keep your car for a day there, or even walk or catch the cable and have a walk up/down it.

For some cultural views, have a walk through China Town (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinatown,_San_Francisco); you'll likely see some amazing things. A colleague of mine once saw an old chinese woman break a chicken's neck on a bus, after the driver told her she couldn't get on with a live animal.

"There, its' not alive now" she said, as she walked on.

Finally, consider visiting Coit Tower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coit_Tower) in the Telegraph Hill to get great views of the city from its centre.

How about veering off the beaten path and taking such a tour http://www.esotouric.com/


You have to try truck food, google them and follow them on twitter.

And if you are planning on going to the bowl, pack a picnic and go early and enjoy. You can get bleacher seats for less that 5 bucks.

By all means skip Hollywood. Go to the strip, more your age group.... Oh downtown, and by all means go to the Standard Hotel roof top bar, there is where the USC chicks congregate. ;). If the lakers are playing go to a game. And if USC is playing get tickets and to a tailgate.Mind you I didn't say UCLA, avoid that school like the plague :D. Attend a baseball game at Dodger stadium and have a dodger dog and hopefully you'll get to see irl the peanut man. Ohh so much to do in LA, just get out of the tourist trap, they look much nicer on the post cards. Ohh have some real tacos, from a taqueria.

Check if JPL has an open house and take a tour, one of the most fascinating places, you'll get to observe the shuttles or whatever spacecraft they are manning. How about the Observatory at night (check if they are open) and look at the stars. Yes you can see them with all the smog.

FWIW, I'd spend 2 days less in LA, it's not that nice a place, the traffic sucks and the people aren't particularly friendly. I'd drive from LA to San Diego and spend an extra day or two there (use the toll road). The Omni hotel is particularly good and well located near the Gaslamp district. Balboa Park and the San Diego zoo are amazing and well worth sacrificing time in LA for. Try to hit happy hour in the Prado for cocktails :D. From San Diego I'd head to Las Vegas, stopping for a few hours in Temecula wine country. After Las Vegas and Grand Canyon drive on to San Francisco.

Thank you all for your replies, I can already see my rough plan changing for the better^

I genuinely believe this is one of the best places to seek advice for such a trip and I will be sure to follow with a trip report.

Perhaps Yahillwe is right, and I should have explained a little bit more about us. We are 4 guys in our twenties, all have different and sometimes conflicting interests so we would ‘like’ to try and do it all; 5* Hotels, Theme Parks and Nightlife to Camping, National Parks and Sights. I know something will have to give, and as a reference, I think places such as Hearst castle, the Getty and some recommended PCH towns would be first to go.

Los Angeles

I have some family and friends in the city, so this is why we have allocated a good deal of time here; plus it is a great city if you know where to go. East LA is a very nice part of Downey so no need to worry guys;) We plan on renting a convertible, and this was because we could pack light and leave some of our luggage here if needed. I know LA well, although I am worried I have forgotten what is fun for a first time tourist to do.

Huntington

I do not know the city at all. We have friends near Laguna, and I thought it would be close enough to visit them and Newport. We also have a Suite(thanks FT) reserved at the Hyatt for a great price. Anywhere else would cost us a good bit more(for less), or if we stay with friends it would be a tight squeeze.

Las Vegas

Maybe 2 nights and 2 days would be enough, have heard good things about Encore(& PH, Palms, MGM) so ill keep my eye out on any great deals and move on that, would be keen to get a 2 bedroom Suite where possible. I would like to drive to Las Vegas for the experience arriving at dusk, and go at the weekend although this could be changed.

Grand Canyon

So either drive making a 2day trip of it, or take a Helicopter Tour seems to be the best options? I do like the idea of not having to give up the car, and going forward(time allowing) into the surrounding area although(greenbacks allowing) the Helicopter tour sounds amazing.

“Here is where it gets interesting….”

I like the idea suggested by britbronco22 of going from LV up into Yosemite, and then over to SF. I have no doubt Death Valley will be a little toasty for Glaswegians in August, however the drive sounds amazing and we should be used to the heat by then. After Yosemite, how quick could the drive back to LA be? Unless we have all of our luggage and are willing to give up PCH then we would like to go back to the City for a few days –otherwise we would just head over to SF. I never knew you could do day trips to Yosemite from SF so this is something to look into to.

San Diego

Is it worth skipping the city to spend the day in La Jolla? I have never taken to San Diego although I have not been for many years. I did not enjoy Sea World, the Zoo did not wow me(to be fair, I have a dislike for animals) and the daytrip to TJ was not forgetful in the bad sense.

PCH

I think a night would be long enough, where would you recommend we visit and stay?

San Francisco

Walking tour, Alcatraz, Pier and China town were on my list. Thanks to the recommendations here I will be sure to keep the car for at least a day to drive across the GC bridge and visit Saurisito.

Sounds like it might be best to keep the car, as opposed to returning it in different states -what is the ease and cost of this? I am also not keen on the idea of double backing on internal flights although If it is easily done(I expect so from LV, less so from LA) then we could consider doing it once.

Again, thank you all so much. More than welcome to keep the suggestions coming.


** My 1000th post sure is a long one

...
Agree in LA the Getty Museum is a great visit (although our SatNav ended up taking us somewhere altogether different!).
...


Same thing happened to us - we ended up in some residential estate round the back of the musuem. But it was absolutely worth it.

It's hard to add to the combined wisdom of the board. We did a similar trip, drove from LA to GC via Palm Springs and London Bridge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Bridge_(Lake_Havasu_City))and back to Vegas where we ditched the car. By the way, no problems with the one-way rental across state lines. I would have given Vegas a miss, but being so close we kind of had to do it. We then flew up to Fresno (FAT) with Allegiant, picked up another car and stayed at the Teneya Lodge. From there out to SF.

Definitely drive to / from Vegas. The drive through Death Valley is fascinating and seeing Vegas appear on the horizon is great, and on the way to/from SFO you can go to Yosemite as well.

Grand Canyon - not sure this is worth a drive, I know I didn't bother on my first Vegas visit. I did a helicopter trip on my 2nd trip to Vegas, when I was older and richer, which was amazing. However, I think you'd be looking at c £200 per head to do this.

Vegas - you MUST do this midweek, or you will be screwed on your hotel prices. You also have to hope there is no big convention in town.

SFO - truly lovely, very British place. You can do 3 days here easily, especially if you go out to Alcatraz one day and drive across the bridge on another. Also a very good place to just hang out.

LA - personally I dislike it, but if you've never been it would be wrong not to go and do the Hollywood stuff! And next time you do this trip you can avoid it!

Personally, I would do a loop, driving down the coast from SFO to LA. It is one of the most amazing drives in the world and you'd be crazy to miss it. Hearst Castle is an interesting OTT stop on the way - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearst_Castle

I have actually done this trip twice - into SFO for a few days (easy to acclimatise because it is so English), drive down the coast, LA / San Diego, Death Valley, Vegas, Yosemite, back to SFO. You cannot have a better holiday in my opinion - there is literally something for everyone with this itinerary. It works just as well starting in LA as well, although it helps as you have family - LA is a bit of a shocker to cope with, I am not happy being let loose in an unfamilar rental car on a 10-lane highway after a 13 hour flight!

[QUOTE=pazza2000;16085691]

Los Angeles

I have some family and friends in the city, so this is why we have allocated a good deal of time here; plus it is a great city if you know where to go. East LA is a very nice part of Downey so no need to worry guys;) We plan on renting a convertible, and this was because we could pack light and leave some of our luggage here if needed. I know LA well, although I am worried I have forgotten what is fun for a first time tourist to do.

I wouldn't stay in Downey, unless you are planning on doing Disneyland. You will be stuck on the 5 going west all day long. And really there is nothing to do in Downey but track houses, I'd stay more centrally located and AWAY from the 2 lane 5 fwy. And bit of FYI, east coaster NEVER say THE before naming a fwy and always give you the exit #. West coasters ALWAYS say THE before the fwy and always give you the exit name. We just started numbering the fwy exists and really no one knows them.
Huntington

I do not know the city at all. We have friends near Laguna, and I thought it would be close enough to visit them and Newport. We also have a Suite(thanks FT) reserved at the Hyatt for a great price. Anywhere else would cost us a good bit more(for less), or if we stay with friends it would be a tight squeeze.

Hummm Huntington Beach, btw this is the way we pronounce it .. hunigton.. You really aren't close the Laguna, it would take you around 45 minutes on the 405 south (depending on the hr) then crossing over the hill towards laguna. Just keep an eye on the distances and the traffic. Avoid rush hrs otherwise you are stuck in traffic jams under the boiling sun and you'll turn into lobsters. Take lots of water with you. If I recall you will be there in August... water my dear water. for you and your car.

JumboD, your message caught my eye.

I never got past the first line saying they were staying in EastLA. :D

(I grew up in LA. Not sure I ever knew anybody who'd actually been to EastLA, unless they were armed police or undercover DEA agents....)

Lots of good suggestions from the fans, though.

JumboD, your message caught my eye.

I never got past the first line saying they were staying in EastLA. :D

(I grew up in LA. Not sure I ever knew anybody who'd actually been there, unless they were armed police or undercover DEA agents....)

Or Fergie ;)

OMG! Was that HER in that Boyle Heights bar?

I knew it!

Get the best car insurance that money can buy... and be warned and very very careful. LAPD as well as the highway patrol and the state police,have zero to minus zero tolerance for drinking and driving. A smell of alcohol and you are in the slammer.

Air options from the Grand Canyon area aren't great. From the canyon airport, your options are very small planes to Vegas (often cancelled due to weather during the monsoon). From Flagstaff, the only carrier is US Airways, which means flying on a plane operated by Mesa airlines and connecting through Phoenix. Personally, I try to avoid both of those things and would suggest you just drive.

August is the monsoon season in the southwest, so expect afternoon thunderstorms during your time at Grand Canyon. As a word of warning, if you do decide to do some hiking or even just walking on the rim: make sure that you account for the altitude as regards sunscreen (a significant portion of injuries at the Canyon are in fact severe sunburns / sun poisoning) and proper hydration.

PCH repairs should be complete or close to by the time you get there, so that shouldn't be a worry. Consider driving up from Grand Canyon / Vegas on the inland route to see the mountains then swing down the PCH on your return to LA.

First, too much time in LA. Not enough time in northern California. Go to Yosemite and spend at least one night. Stay at the Ahwanee. Do drive at least down to Big Sur on the PCH. Monterrey/Carmel is wonderful with some nice hotels. A car is a PITA in SF, but OTOH, SF is not an easy city to get around in without one.

Just over the GG Bridge in SF: Sausalito with drop dead gorgeous views and cute hotels, Marin Headlands, Muir Woods (if you didn't see the redwoods in Yosemite at Mariposa Grove). For a wine tour, I much prefer Sonoma to Napa: less touristy, more vineyards that are small operations and happy to chat with you and offer free samples.

I'm not much of a night life person and I hate Las Vegas, but you may be (and tons of others are) different.

I can't think of a thing to do in LA other than go to Santa Monica.

I would say if you can make time take this trip. I did it with a group of 5 friends and probably one of the best things we have ever done and it worked out cheaper than staying in Vegas.

For the price you got a small fixed wing flight that lands in the canyon ( very north east) then he Helicopter ride that lands on the river bed followed by 2 nights camping at the base with amazing food!

I can't say how great it was and fantastic value.

http://www.westernriver.com/trips/grand3day/

This is just one pic of us landing at the bottom to start the trip.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2124/2504906951_17cb152f99_o.jpg

Try to visit Long Beach. It is a fabulous place with short drive from Beverly Hills that you should not miss with many nice restaurants and marina.

You can spend a full day there and see the queen mary ship and the local aquarium.

I would say if you can make time take this trip. I did it with a group of 5 friends and probably one of the best things we have ever done and it worked out cheaper than staying in Vegas.

For the price you got a small fixed wing flight that lands in the canyon ( very north east) then he Helicopter ride that lands on the river bed followed by 2 nights camping at the base with amazing food!

I can't say how great it was and fantastic value.

http://www.westernriver.com/trips/grand3day/


That sounds like an AMAZING thing to do with a group of friends. Not cheap (can't see how that would be cheaper than staying in Vegas...) but worth it I'd say. Great tip!

That sounds like an AMAZING thing to do with a group of friends. Not cheap (can't see how that would be cheaper than staying in Vegas...) but worth it I'd say. Great tip!

It was about $1000 at the time and that was £500 when we did it. We were paying £150 per night in a hotel at the time and with food, booze, gambling it was cheaper :) Also the helicopter ride and plane trip would have been big money on their own.

I have loads more pics from that trip if interested. It really was fantastic to wake up under the stars with the Canyon walls eaither side of you.

Try to visit Long Beach. It is a fabulous place with short drive from Beverly Hills that you should not miss with many nice restaurants and marina.

You can spend a full day there and see the queen mary ship and the local aquarium.


It really isn't THAT short drive from BH.

And river rafting is really fun, have done it on the Russian river up in Kern County.

It was about $1000 at the time and that was £500 when we did it. We were paying £150 per night in a hotel at the time and with food, booze, gambling it was cheaper :) Also the helicopter ride and plane trip would have been big money on their own..

Yeah, I noticed it was $1295 now (or $5180 for 4, excluding tips etc). Still a great deal since staying at the bottom of the Grand Canyon is a rare privilege but I can see this maybe too much at age 20ish, especially since you can also stay in Vegas for $300 a night in a two bedroom. It is considerably more expensive but I would seriously consider it.

Yeah, I noticed it was $1295 now (or $5180 for 4, excluding tips etc). Still a great deal since staying at the bottom of the Grand Canyon is a rare privilege but I can see this maybe too much at age 20ish, especially since you can also stay in Vegas for $300 a night in a two bedroom. It is considerably more expensive but I would seriously consider it.

The one great thing about being in the bottom of the Canyon is you can't spend money!! So no chance of have a couple of cocktails too many, hitting the tables then going fizz crazy.

Some of this might have already been covered but this is what we did last year, in August!

Flew in to LAX and stayed in a B&B for a few nights. free parking & WiFi, friendly hosts and a beautiful organic breakfast to start the day.

If your going to do Universal make sure you book the VIP Backlot tour, gives you your own private tour guide and includes a superb buffet lunch and front of line access to all the rides. Last year we got taken into one of the soundstages, we couldn't go down wysteria lane as they were filming, got to see them filming Pirates of the Caribbean 4. Great day out and worth the money.

If you want to chill by day in vegas and party by night I highly recomment the four seasons, the pool and service during the day are superb. Keep the car, parking in Vegas is free. Driving to the GC is madness. Although drive to the Hoover Dam, its only 45 mins. Make sure you park in the new parking lot on the way down and take a walk over the new bridge for some amazing photos.

We did an extended trip to the GC which meant a flight from a small airport in vegas to the GC national park, we then took a helicopter trip over the widest part of the GC then a coach to the GC Visitor Centre, only cost about $50 more than the hellicopter to the southrim and was much better.

We drove up through Death Valley, the views are amazing and stopped in Mammoth for a night, we then drove over the tioga pass and through yosemite. In hindsite I wish I had planned a couple of days in yosemite as I feel we missed out on so much. We litterally drove right through it. This is something we will do at a later stage.

The drive from mammoth to SF is just as picturesque as the drive from vegas to mammoth. Keep the car for a day in SF so you can drive out to the muir woods, sausalito and the Golden Gate Bridge. Then dump it.

We're going back this year to do LA, Palm Springs and Vegas, but it's going to be more of a chill holiday than a running around holiday!

I have no doubt Death Valley will be a little toasty for Glaswegians in August, however the drive sounds amazing and we should be used to the heat by then.

ISTR it was about 120F when we drove through in August 2002 :eek: But it's a dry heat :D

Anyway, more importantly, as Glaswegians you'll also be needing pub recommendations! It's been nearly 10 years since I lived in SF, but here are some of my favourites:

Cafe Vesuvius, corner of Columbus and Broadway in North Beach. This is an SF institution, frequented by the Beat Generation as it's next door to City Lights bookshop.

Specs (or The Adler Museum), up a short alley off Columbus, opposite Vesuvius and City Lights. This is a bar for people who like bars :D. Was in here with a bunch of friends once, and one of the young-ish women was being 'hit on' by an American at the bar. She wasn't enjoying the experience, but was a bit too young and inexperienced to just tell the guy to go away. The barman came over and slid a 'business card' to the guy - printed on it was the line "Sir, the Lady is not interested in your attention" - he left shortly afterwards, and my friend still has the card to this day :)

The Gold Dust Lounge, Powell St., just north of Market and near union Square. This is a great old bar with a bunch of regulars and jazz music pretty much every day. It's also very handy for the Cable car which runs from Powell up to Fishermans Wharf - you must do the Cable Cars, and this is the best route - get on late and stand on the running boards rather than taking a seat, great fun (and invented by a Scotsman! :))

The Irish Bank, somewhere near Union Square (memory getting a bit hazy). The best Irish bar in downtown, and does a very good burger.

4th Street Bar and Deli - part of the Marriott on 4th Street (duh) just south of Market. Great for cold beer in frosted glasses on a hot day, and has (I reckon) the best hot wings in the City.

The Lone Palm, around 22nd and Guererra (I think), down in Mission. A cool little bar in a cool part of the City. Even if you don't come here (and I'm not even sure it's still around) make sure you visit the Mission district.

After Yosemite, how quick could the drive back to LA be? Unless we have all of our luggage and are willing to give up PCH then we would like to go back to the City for a few days –otherwise we would just head over to SF. I never knew you could do day trips to Yosemite from SF so this is something to look into to.


I reckon you could do this comfortably in a couple of days, with an overnight in Big Sur. As someone else said, doing the full 'loop' (LA-Grand Canyon-Vegas-Yosemite-SF-Big Sur-LA) would be fantastic experience.

Enjoy your trip, I'm not a bit jealous :p

tf

Little Fruitcake would not forgive me if I failed to mention Disney at Anaheim. :D

The great suggestions keep on coming, very greatful guys^

Where to start...

If we could fly out of LAX and do a clean loop then we would, however SFO was what availaibility had for 4 in F; on the plus side, we will receive a better F ground product I understand.

I know LA(ish), and Downey is simply where we have a nice place to stay when we need it, I know it is ideal for Disney, even as a gateway for OC although not great for Hollywood and above...

Huntington i understand is a drive from Laguna, Newport, Dana Point although these will be our easy going, alcohol free beach days so the driving should be tolerable plus we really do have a great rate for a stay here.

Las Vegas, never knew parking was free... at the Andaz and W's we are looking at $28per day so assumed LV would be similar. Plus with me now considering spending less time here, having a car idle for 2 days does not make me feel so guilty about it. We are keen to go to LV at the weekend, and do it 'hard' -is the accom. price at the weekend really considerably more Raffles?

Now... still unsure where to go from here, positives for each option. I would love to do a river rafting/camping adventure suggested by CT-UK, although the finances will not permit, even the Helicopter tour @ £200 might be hard to convince my friends. I like the idea of driving out, staying over, possibly a day down into the gorge.

From here we either go back to LA, or continue up to Yosemite via Death Valley & Tioga pass... here is the 4 options I reckon we have for the rest of the trip, I would love to know your thoughts:

1) Go back to LA after the Grand Canyon; few days in So Cal and then take PCH up to SF, with a day trip to Yosemite once there.

2) Continue up to Yosemite after the GC. Drive back to LA after a night(or 2) here, before taking PCH upto SF a few days later to finish up here(for a few days of course)

3) Continue up to Yosemite after the GC. Night or two and then head across to San Fran for possibly a night(do the stuff good for a car), then drive down PCH towards LA for a few days. Dump the car at LAX, take a flight to SFO and end here with a day or two car free.

4) Or alternatively.... push back Vegas a few days and Leave LA for good, with all of our luggage in tow. Head up to Yosemite, spend a 2-3 days here, finish in San Fran.

Please bare in mind I like Randy Newman do love LA, I have family and Friends there and I do think it has alot to offer 4 guys in their 20's. With the upmost respect, I think Nr California and wine county in particular would be best appreciated when we are a little older:p

If you guys are in Vegas you should simply drive around Utah for a while. Great sights and stuff. Why don't you simply find some organized self drives online and see what they use for a route? You need to decide what you want... Party/Rest and have some of the sights or really see the stuff worth seeing.

LV is actually better partying off weekends. On Monday/Tuesday the natives go out to play. You want to find out where they party (for obvious reasons...). That changes so I can't help you but it is not on the strip. All those hot girls don't have a lot of money and they do not party at the Wynn etc. They party way, way, way off strip and trust me: finding out where is worth it... ;) If you meet them on the strip they will just drink your wallet dry, most likely because they are paid to do so... CT-UK's suggestion will be cheaper indeed.

You are spending way too much time in and around LA. The great rate at the Hyatt Huntington Beach is not worth it. It is not a great place either. You are better of driving out to La Jolla or elsewhere and stay in a motel 6. Hotels are not important.

Mrs Redshift27 and I are off to do pretty much the same this Sept. BA F to LAX and back from SFO. I am working 3 days in Downtown LA so she will sightsee LA on her own, no car. Probably take a Hollywood / LA tour one day and go to the Getty Museum another. We are Gehry fans so crawling round the Walt Disney Concert Hall is a must. The Queen Mary at Long Beach sounds an interesting option. Then it is an evening flight to Monterey for two nights, drive the Big Sur, then drive to Yosemite for three nights. Yosemite is so amazing that giving it any less seemed wrong. SF gets allotted an afternoon, evening and a morning! I need to decide how best to structure that.

so she will sightsee LA on her own, no car.

No car? That's just outright cruel in LA!!

:)

Some thoughts and (too?) strongly-held opinions based on a lot of experience living and traveling around California and the southwest...

Skip the Grand Canyon. Sure, it's gorgeous, but it's a major schlep from Las Vegas, it will be inundated with tourists in August, and the time could be better spent in other national parks, if that's important, more conveniently. Visiting the Grand Canyon in a day by car entails 5+ hours drive, a couple of hours there, then 5+ back. It's a very long day, through scenery that for the most part isn't all that inspiring... twice.

I'd also nix the Death Valley and Tioga Pass/Yosemite plan. Death Valley is fascinating for sure, but the places you really want to see are simply not readily accessible in August for drive-bys. The bigger problem IMO is that the drive from LV to the east side of DVNP is not terribly long, but the distances within the park are great, and the drive out of the park to anything resembling a decent place to stop is really, really long, hot, and boring. Getting a convertible is also pretty pointless in that part of California - you will be fried and will resemble fish suppers, or maybe lobsters with migraines, after an hour in that sun. Or worse... believe me, as one whose father grew up in DV (granddad worked at a borax mine)... they don't call it Death Valley for nothing.

(Regarding the convertible, be careful. Luggage space in convertibles is extremely limited, once the top is down. I can't think of any US ragtops that will accommodate four persons and luggage. You might make this a little project in the meantime, and also know that one-way rentals for convertibles are very hard to arrange. Not saying impossible, just tough and very pricey. You might think about getting a SUV with a sunroof; the higher seating position would also help given your plans - you'd see out better. Or, that said, maybe you should think about two different cars - a convertible for your time in the LA area, then something with a lid for the desert.)

As for Yosemite in August, it's lovely. You will be surrounded by fifteen thousand of your closest friends, many of them children, screaming. Bleh.

Going the Death Valley/Yosemite route also eliminates the possibility of the coast road; IMO this is not a good exchange in August.

Anyway, if not the Grand Canyon or Death Valley, then what?

Simple - Joshua Tree NP and Palm Springs, then out to the coast either at San Diego/La Jolla or straight to Huntington Beach. Joshua Tree is gorgeous, a little higher in altitude than Death Valley so slightly cooler (an academic distinction - still hot as hell) but has the distinct advantage of being an hour from Palm Springs, where there are numerous cool hotels, a casino, good restaurants, and things to do. Stunning scenery in Joshua Tree (and PS isn't shabby itself) but not so far out of your way. You can easily spend a day, or part of a day at JTNP, and be poolside by nightfall. Accommodations in PS tend to be quite affordable in the summer, too. To get there from LV, head south on US 95 through Laughlin (famous low-roller and biker gambling mecca) to Lake Havasu City, home of the relocated London Bridge, then connect to I-10 near Blythe, then west. Easy and actually more interesting than some other desert drives.

As for Huntington Beach, I disagree with those who say skip it. The Hyatt is a very nice property, the shoreline area of "downtown" HB is very active and hopping, the surf is great, and it's very close to lots of things to see and do in Newport and Balboa. Laguna is 30-45 min. down the road, so easily visited in a morning/afternoon; you should also visit "Little Balboa" (the island at the foot of Jamboree Road) but be warned, you will want to buy a house and move there.

Regarding the drive from LA to SF up the coast, it really needs two days, with an overnight somewhere around the Hearst Castle at San Simeon. You should also have an overpriced (but good) burger at Nepenthe in Big Sur (assuming the road is fixed by August) and enjoy the company of the ghosts of Orson Welles and Rita Hayworth and Richard Burton and (RIP) Elizabeth Taylor.

In SF, if you still have time on your hands, instead of a day trip to Yosemite I'd think about a day in the Redwoods - either the Big Basin groves down near Santa Cruz, or else the Muir Woods in Marin County (both around an hour from the city - Big Basin maybe 2.) Yosemite is beautiful but you can be in beautiful mountain country in many places in Europe. The Redwoods... nope. Not to be missed IMO. You can combine Muir Woods with a day on Highway 1 north of SF - which I think is equally as gorgeous as the San Simeon/Big Sur part, but way more accessible. Now that is convertible country.

1- If you'd like to go river rafting I can contact my "contacts" and find you a spot, but it is way up north, towards the Oregon border, ok a bit south of that.

2- Vegas... great Socal chick party town.. you want to go native, I can again "contact my contacts" and get you names of where the USC chicks go.

You guys are young... so go and have fun.. But please please and please be very very careful with the drinking and driving. The slammer ain't fun.

Not that I experienced it. Always got a driver when we were planning on drinking. Safe.

From here we either go back to LA, or continue up to Yosemite via Death Valley & Tioga pass... here is the 4 options I reckon we have for the rest of the trip, I would love to know your thoughts:

1) Go back to LA after the Grand Canyon; few days in So Cal and then take PCH up to SF, with a day trip to Yosemite once there.

2) Continue up to Yosemite after the GC. Drive back to LA after a night(or 2) here, before taking PCH upto SF a few days later to finish up here(for a few days of course)

3) Continue up to Yosemite after the GC. Night or two and then head across to San Fran for possibly a night(do the stuff good for a car), then drive down PCH towards LA for a few days. Dump the car at LAX, take a flight to SFO and end here with a day or two car free.

4) Or alternatively.... push back Vegas a few days and Leave LA for good, with all of our luggage in tow. Head up to Yosemite, spend a 2-3 days here, finish in San Fran.


I'd rule out option 4 just because PCH is such an excellent and distinctly Californian experience. I'd also stay overnight on that trip in Big Sur to see some of the state parks (Julia Pfeiffer Burns and Point Lobos are really good). Glen Oaks Motor Lodge is a really well-designed cool little hotel for a reasonable cost.

Between 1/2/3, I'd probably choose #2 because I prefer the northbound PCH trip. The scenery sort of surprises you and it is truly breathtaking once you get past Hearst castle. Also, as long as you leave Yosemite by 3-5pm you will get back to LA at a reasonable hour and miss evening traffic.

As a native Californian who grew up also spending time on Arizona desert land ranches, having a convertible in August in the Mohave desert is, well, a waste.

You will have the top up with the AC on anyway most of the time. You could put it down at night, but not during the day. The sun is deadly. Literally.

Driving for hours in desert sun with temps reaching 120 degrees all day in August could be really dangerous. Natives know to do the driving to Las Vegas or other long distance desert areas by leaving LA in the evening if possible and driving the long distances after the sun has set.

Sandy desert ground doesn't hold heat the way dirt does, so it can cool down quite a bit at night. Night driving is not always possible in a busy holiday sked, but the locals know that's the way you do it if you can.

People die out there. Alot. Folks there respect the desert. They know what can happen to you there if you don't. If your car should break down, due to the distances, it could take a long time for highway patrol or other rescues to get to you. And standing in 110-120 degrees for hours waiting, well, it's not healthy. You don't want to mar your trip with somebody getting sunstroke.

And a word about Huntington Beach---do you surf? If so, then Huntington is the place to go. The surf's up most of the time. (Very early mornings...best waves, as the surfers know. We used to drive down there at day break in high school to get an hour or so in surfing as the tide came in before school.) But then I grew up a lot of the time in Balboa, so I'm probably not neutral! :))

Water is cold, too. It doesn't match the balmy CA weather. For some reason it always seemed danged cold year round (ergo you see surfers in wet suits.)

I also put in a vote for the Queen Mary. If you are British, it's an important part of the history. They've preserved most of the the ship in its original art deco style. Coming on board is like stepping back 70 years immediately.

Including the rooms that still have all the original rare (some woods now extinct) furniture fittings from the 30s, all the old taps from the 30s that say "sea water" and things like that. On a private tour when it first opened we were shown into the suite that the Queen used on her trips. As far as I know that's been preserved too. Just as it was when she last, if ever, used it. Not that posh really. Twins beds. Moderately sized loo with toilet and bidet. My crazy friend whispered she was going to run over and sit on Queen's Loo just to say she'd sat on the same loo as the Queen. In the end she lost her nerve thankfully.

Take the paranormal tour on the QM. It's not just kitschy. It's the most "haunted" ship ever, apparently. A couple of people who study it conduct the tours and it's interesting. It will scare the living daylights out of you, if you have some experiences while on the tour. And they don't tell you much about what you might hear or "see" ahead of time either, sometimes things just happen while you are there, so it's not the power of suggestion necessarily.

One of the things they do tell you before taking you into the pool area is that many many people have seen and heard a little girl running around the pool area laughing. And more than a few folks have seen child's wet foot prints all over the place down there. (The pool is empty and closed.)

Another thing folks have said they hear are the screams of men crying for help when they go deep down inside the area of the ship at the bow that rammed through a naval ship during WWII and split it in half. The first to hear this evidently were workmen who repaired the gash in the QM when it was put into dock after the incident. And subsequent people working down there have also reported hearing it (even if they'd never heard of the incident prior.) So it's pretty interesting.

So, many on the tour do hear, feel or see things. I've done the tour--about four years ago. Had one freaky experience as did a friend who was with me. And we are NOT "believers!"

I only did the tour because one of the guides was a friend of one of my friends who produces documentaries and he was working on one about the loads of paranormal experiences people had been having through the years. He suggested it would be an interesting thing to do and it was.

But perhaps not interesting to four energetic young men. They probably are after different experiences that near the beach. :D And if your four gents happen to be gay, the Long Beach gay scene downtown very near the Queen Mary is quite active and there are alot of clubs and nice places to hang out.

But if straight, also plenty of "California girls" in the same areas, though better if you motor down Ocean Boulevard to the "Belmont Shore" area, about 15 minutes away and roam around the wide, white sandy beach there to scope the bikini action where the locals go. There is also a HUGE university in Long Beach, so no shortage of college girls there either who use that beach.

And i second the earlier poster who said do NOT drink and drive in California. They are NOT amused there and you go straight to jail, few exceptions. (If you read the tabloids, you will note the number of celebs who are picked up on DUI's constantly. It's not a coincidence, it happens to everybody.) They have a zero tolerance for it there. It would be a shame for that to ruin your great trip.

p.s. As an aside, just wondering why UCLA (girls?) is to be avoided at all costs but USC not? Locals have their own prejudices about it (usually involving football) but wondering why someone said that? When I was college age, the rule was if your dad was rich and you were just average academically at best, you went to USC. If you were very academically talented and too poor to afford university otherwise, you went to UCLA.

Please remember that native Californians have a very narrow comfort zone. They find anything below 80 or above 100 degrees (F) to be immediately life threatening. ;) Unless you are unbelievably stupid and expose your milky white skin to the full blast of the sun without any protection whatsoever, don't cary water and don't make regular stops at watering holes you have nothing to fear. However, alcohol dehydrates so don't use beer for refreshments.

I have done this trip with my (then) 68 year old mother in September and she loved it. No complaints about the heat whatsoever. Quite the contrary. I have done the drive from LV to GC and it is a beautiful drive. As said, I would not return by car or I would continue on through Arizona and make my way back to LA that way. More desert, but also the already mentioned Joshua Tree Natl Park!

Please remember that native Californians have a very narrow comfort zone. They find anything below 80 or above 100 degrees (F) to be immediately life threatening. ;)

Now that's not fair - we can go as low as 60 without declaring an emergency. *

I grew up in LA and the steady weather is part of why I left. It's just wrong for it to be sunny and 70+ on Christmas Day, unless you live in Oz. We didn't get changing leaves in autumn, they just choked on the smog and fell off.

Be aware that San Francisco can actually be rather cool in the summer. There's been times when it's been about 100 down here in San Jose and I've gone up to the city to cool off, as it was about 65 up there. SF actually got snow a few weeks ago.


* actually, very cold weather does lead to a state of emergency. A sizeable portion of the country's produce is grown in the central valley and freezing weather can kill it, especially oranges

p.s. yes, I'm perfectly comfortable with metric and temperatures in C, but I can't do all the work for you. :D

Interesting! Some conflicting advice above from Gordyloo, what do you guys think?

At this point, I really do believe that one of the 4 options I listed in my previous post for an itinerary post Vegas is the way to go forward. I have never seen the GC, have always wanted to visit Yosemite, and some of you have really rated the drive up.

That being said the heat is a concern, and even though we will be packed fairly light we will cutting it fine space wise so perhaps an SUV is something to consider. We would love a convertible for PCH and the drive to Vegas, although the cost and effort to change cars might not be worth it so this is something I will have to consider.

Glad to hear that the drive back from Yosemite would not be so painful, two of us at least will be driving so few stops needed, we will spend the day there and drive back late afternoon. JT park sounds nice, although I think that would need to be a dedicated trip... or could we include it en route to Las Vegas if we leave early enoough in the day? -I actually have this vision of arriving in LV at night.

I am thinking Fri-Mon in LV, drive to the GC on Mon, stay over and drive up to Yosemite the following day where we will have 2 nights there before driving back to LA on the Thurs, where we will spend 2 nights before heading upto SFO via PCH(1 night on PCH, 2 in SFO). Might consider pulling LV forward or cutting it a day less to give us another day in LA or SFO. I am happy that 1 night along PCH will be enough, we will have soaked up the beach town culture in Orange County albeit maybe not as picturesque. What do you think of this?

I am surprised that Palms has been mentioned, I understand it to be very hot there. We have the offer of a friends empty holiday home there although they warned us the heat will limit us to indoors and that the place is very quiet in Aug. so we have been put off the idea.

I know some of you must think we have too much time in LA. We have friends and family there who I want to spend some time with, and I do believe the city has alot to offer for what we are looking for from it; Beach, Party, Theme Parks, In-n-Out. When I say LA I also throw Orange County and a day to San Diego under that title.

Thanks again for all this great advice here.

And i second the earlier poster who said do NOT drink and drive in California. They are NOT amused there and you go straight to jail, few exceptions. (If you read the tabloids, you will note the number of celebs who are picked up on DUI's constantly. It's not a coincidence, it happens to everybody.) They have a zero tolerance for it there. It would be a shame for that to ruin your great trip.
You might think that you can outsmart the CHP, but they know ALL the tricks, so please please and please, if you are going to drink, have a designated driver. All you need to get pulled over is change lanes a few times, and they have their lights out.
p.s. As an aside, just wondering why UCLA (girls?) is to be avoided at all costs but USC not? Locals have their own prejudices about it (usually involving football) but wondering why someone said that? When I was college age, the rule was if your dad was rich and you were just average academically at best, you went to USC. If you were very academically talented and too poor to afford university otherwise, you went to UCLA.[/QUOTE]

I never said Bruin girls are to be avoided, but then I am not sure that they'd like to hang out with the likes of the recent Youtube rambler. I would hope that the boys like girls who are a bit more intelligent. Case closed :D:D. And talking about academia, this is what UCLA's PR machine have tried to brainwash the community with :p. And yes we do beat the daylight out of the bruins in football and allow them to play in our backyard.:D:D.


We have always wondered why the Europeans like to drive through the desert in the middle of summer, can never understand it. And as an added thing, the adage "the coldest winter that I spent was the summer in SF" is very true. SF is cold in the summer.

Have fun boys.

pazza2000,

There have been some great replies on this thread, so it's difficult to know how much more to contribute.

So instead I'll agree with some others here who have suggested you have not given yourself enough time in Northern California.

There's a lot of great things to be done around the San Francisco area. Personally I enjoyed my time there a lot more than Los Angeles last time I was in that part of the world. Just don't dump your car too soon, many things require a drive.

So, when is the best time to visit San Francisco and surrounding areas?
Looking to set up a 241 between September and June 12.



And i second the earlier poster who said do NOT drink and drive in California. They are NOT amused there and you go straight to jail, few exceptions. (If you read the tabloids, you will note the number of celebs who are picked up on DUI's constantly. It's not a coincidence, it happens to everybody.) They have a zero tolerance for it there. It would be a shame for that to ruin your great trip.
You might think that you can outsmart the CHP, but they know ALL the tricks, so please please and please, if you are going to drink, have a designated driver. All you need to get pulled over is change lanes a few times, and they have their lights out.
p.s. As an aside, just wondering why UCLA (girls?) is to be avoided at all costs but USC not? Locals have their own prejudices about it (usually involving football) but wondering why someone said that? When I was college age, the rule was if your dad was rich and you were just average academically at best, you went to USC. If you were very academically talented and too poor to afford university otherwise, you went to UCLA.

I never said Bruin girls are to be avoided, but then I am not sure that they'd like to hang out with the likes of the recent Youtube rambler. I would hope that the boys like girls who are a bit more intelligent. Case closed :D:D. And talking about academia, this is what UCLA's PR machine have tried to brainwash the community with :p. And yes we do beat the daylight out of the bruins in football and allow them to play in our backyard.:D:D.


We have always wondered why the Europeans like to drive through the desert in the middle of summer, can never understand it. And as an added thing, the adage "the coldest winter that I spent was the summer in SF" is very true. SF is cold in the summer.

Have fun boys.[/QUOTE]

Really not trying to complicate your life; full props for taking the time for a little planning, rather than shooting from the hip and risking disappointment.

It sounds like you're set on the Grand Canyon and Yosemite; fair enough, they're both marvelous places.

So let me throw a little twist into the mixture.

You want to spend some time in LV. Fine. Why not take advantage of the time change and jetlag, and head there right off the bat? Tell the relatives in Downey that you'll be along a little later, then immediately fly to LV on arrival at LAX. The drive (from Downey or anywhere else) is not particularly scenic, and you might very well recover the flying cost by getting a cheaper car deal out of LAS than out of LAX. I just checked a couple of car hire companies for August, and prices ex-LAS are around $200 cheaper for comparable vehicles than ex-LAX. I even saw a Mustang convertible (4 pax, 3 pieces of luggage, so plan on sharing a suitcase for an arm rest in the back) with LAS-SFO as the one way route, 16 days, for a very good price with Dollar Rent a Car, way cheaper than any ragtops ex-LAX.

The point being, LV is a 24 hour place, so if you're 8 hours advanced internally and plan to be awake all night, why not make it purposeful, and hit the Strip in the wee hours? In August it will be cool enough to walk around outdoors (unlike the daytime, when it's pretty doggone hot) and you'll be far from alone (as if) and you can "ease" your way into Pacific Daylight Time.

Then drive to the Grand Canyon, then back west on I-10 to Joshua Tree and Palm Springs (which will be just as hot as Las Vegas or Phoenix, there's really not much difference once it's above 100F/40C) or straight through to Downey. So just reverse the order of things.

Then do HB, then drive up the PCH/SR1 to Monterey, then cut over to Yosemite on SR 152/140. Then you might consider crossing Tioga Pass the other way, and take US 395 up to Lake Tahoe, and approach SF from the east on I-80.

IMO driving all the way back to LA from Yosemite is nonsensical, plus while the drive is not grueling, it's boring as hell. This way, you get both the coast, plus Yosemite, and maybe throw in Lake Tahoe (beautiful, more gambling on the Nevada side if you want) with minimal time penalty.

Hey, Henks, are you sayin' native Californians are heat wimps? :cool:

I grew up there and because we spent so much time in the desert, especially on my uncle's two Arizona ranches doing round ups in extreme heat, we were just always taught to respect 120 degree desert days, that's all.

As for me, I've lived in all sorts of extremes since leaving California after university. The cliche about humidity is true, though. I'd rather be in Palm Springs when it's a 110 (which I have many times) than be where I live now when it's 90+ degrees and 90 percent humidity all summer. Ugh.

I get amused though when visiting California now and when it's gets to 60 in LA people are flapping their hands against their arms crossed over their chests and shivering like they are going to die. That when I've gotten off a plane from a place where it was 15 degrees and the plane had to be de-iced.

And if it gets to 50 there they call out the National Guard due to the humanitarian crisis!

Did something similar last year and had some great advice from this site. The post was moved to the Travel + Dining Section ( California). You may want to take a look here?

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/california/1012412-road-trip-sfo-lax-how-would-you-do.html

Regards
FDM

I know some of you must think we have too much time in LA. We have friends and family there who I want to spend some time with, and I do believe the city has alot to offer for what we are looking for from it; Beach, Party, Theme Parks, In-n-Out. When I say LA I also throw Orange County and a day to San Diego under that title.

You don't have to go to LA for In-n-Out. They're all over the place, including Vegas. There's one right behind New York New York across the freeway that's open 24 hours. If you need a last fix right before you fly home, there's an In-n-Out right near SFO at US 101 and Millbrae Ave.

Oh, and I wouldn't drive back from San Diego on a weekend evening. There's a border patrol checkpoint north of SD and the lines can really back up when it's open.

[QUOTE=Purdey;16092705]So, when is the best time to visit San Francisco and surrounding areas?
Looking to set up a 241 between September and June 12.



SF is just beautiful anytime of the year. Just be prepared. That is it. A magnificent city, lots of great restaurants. Berkeley is wonderful so is wondering the wine country. But keep in mind SF is almost always cold.


And don't forget to have fun.

Hey, Henks, are you sayin' native Californians are heat wimps? :cool:



Well, you are Americans so you are prone to panic about stuff... I don't know if you noticed but you all are a bunch of fearful wimps!

;)

fearful

Of course we are fearful..... from people like you :D

You don't have to go to LA for In-n-Out.

Yes, they are all over, but the original one is in LA, and there is nothing like going through the drive thru and ordering from the secret menu... 4x4... Know someone who ate a 9x9 and got really sick.

And as an added thing, the adage "the coldest winter that I spent was the summer in SF" is very true. SF is cold in the summer.

We were in SF in mid/late July last year for about 4 days as part of a trip down the PCH all the way to San Diego and then on to Vegas. SF was cold (although that's relative as I live in Scotland ;)) so you will need some warmer clothing. We did the evening trip to Alcatraz and it really was chilly.

As an aside, we stayed in the Palazzo in Vegas, and paid for access to the exectuive/concierge level, which cost around an additional $100/night/room. Given that this gave us breakfast and 3-4 hours of free drinks/cocktails and snacks in the evening, we considered this to be exceptional value.

Sounds like you're set on the Grand Canyon and Yosemite; fair enough, they're both marvelous places.

So let me throw a little twist into the mixture.

You want to spend some time in LV. Fine. Why not take advantage of the time change and jetlag, and head there right off the bat? Tell the relatives in Downey that you'll be along a little later, then immediately fly to LV on arrival at LAX. The drive (from Downey or anywhere else) is not particularly scenic, and you might very well recover the flying cost by getting a cheaper car deal out of LAS than out of LAX.

I think we have to do GC and Yosemite, the heat concerns me yes, and it is a bit of a rub to have to double back to LA afterwards. However if we want to do PCH it has to be done. We fly out of SFO and I think if we were to opt for Yosemite>SF>PCH>LA, then the domestic back up to SFO would be comparable if not more of a pain then returning to LA.

Going straight to LV is a pass, we will have had a long journey from Scotland in F and I can think of nothing worst than adding an ex-LAX domestic on to that. More importantly, we already have plans that weekend in LA, it is the only days we have set in stone so far. I am now thinking about going to Vegas on a Thurs night, arriving on a Fri and setting off early on the Sun for the long drive to the GC just does not give us enough time there. I do want to drive to LV, we will need the car to continue on and with free parking it is a no brainer.

Unless we could include JT into the drive to LV then I think we could pass on it, with Death Valley + Yosemite doing the job for our National Park intake.

So going forward, how do you respected fountains of knowledge rate this tentitive plan of action...??

Fri - Land, do not pick up rental car, stay with family
Sat - Pick up car, Hollywood sights, Andaz WeHo, night out in SS
Sun - Bev Hills through to SM, Venice etc. W Westwood
*"yes it would be more convenient to stay in the one hotel, however a Suite upgrade and points offers great value here"
Mon - Disneyland, no shame. Stay in Downey
Tues - Huntington Hyatt resort(governors suite); taking in Laguna/Newport
Wed - Huntington....
Thurs - Huntington.... set off for LV at lunchtime, hoping to arr for dusk, Hotel TBC
Fri - LV
Sat- LV
Sun - Set off for the GC for sunset, Hotel TBC
Mon - GC at dawn, set off for Yosemite (can we camp in Aug?)
Tues - Yosemite
Wed - Leave Yosemite late afternoon, return to LA early doors (prob Downey)
Thurs - Universal, stay at W Hollywood
Fri - La Jolla or LA, W Hollywood or with Friends in Studio City
Sat - PCH, Hotel TBC
Sun - San Fran
Mon - San Fran
Tue - San Fran, final in-n-out, bye bye on the 18.00 pm to LHR

I'd rather be in Palm Springs when it's a 110 (which I have many times) than be where I live now when it's 90+ degrees and 90 percent humidity all summer. Ugh. ^

or even 70f here in the uk, the dessert heat is so dry its lovely, over here its just clammy, sticky, horrible, sweaty heat!

I went to central egypt in the summer it was 50+c one day LOVELY!

Looks like a wonderful trip ^ Just a few tips about lodging:

About Yosemite, reservations can be hard during summer, so be sure to start checking. Camping reservations open up several months in advance to be sure to check on that too. The Ahwahnee hotel is great but 500+/night, be sure to at least visit it for a meal or a drink. Don't despair if everything is booked, there are a lot of cancellations close-in.

As for hotels along PCH, be careful here, there are a lot of dumps. If you want a chain hotel I'd look in the Monterey area, lots of great ones. Big Sur has the best independent hotels as well as excellent camping if you are open to that.

This looks similar to a trip I am planning in April... I am doing the following:

8th: Land at LAX 2:30pm. Pick up car head to Hotel (Hilton Universal). Anyone know cheap parking around here?
9th: Do tourist things in LA (Hollywood sign, Beverly Hills, Rodeo Drive, Walk of Fame, Chinese Theatre)
10th: Universal
11th: Head to San Diego - Staying at US Grant then Hilton San Deigo Bayfront. Walk around the centre of San Diego
12th: San Deigo Zoo
13th: Sea World
14th: Drive to Sedona - Hilton resort (A long drive...)
15th: Relax in Sedona. Maybe balloon flight.
16th: Go to GCNP. Stay night is Tusayan (Best Western).
17th: Helicopter over GC - then drive to Vegas.
18th-22st: Staying in vegas (various hotels). Going to do DVNP one day.

This looks similar to a trip I am planning in April... I am doing the following:

8th: Land at LAX 2:30pm. Pick up car head to Hotel (Hilton Universal). Anyone know cheap parking around here?
9th: Do tourist things in LA (Hollywood sign, Beverly Hills, Rodeo Drive, Walk of Fame, Chinese Theatre)
10th: Universal
11th: Head to San Diego - Staying at US Grant then Hilton San Deigo Bayfront. Walk around the centre of San Diego
12th: San Deigo Zoo
13th: Sea World
14th: Drive to Sedona - Hilton resort (A long drive...)
15th: Relax in Sedona. Maybe balloon flight.
16th: Go to GCNP. Stay night is Tusayan (Best Western).
17th: Helicopter over GC - then drive to Vegas.
18th-22st: Staying in vegas (various hotels). Going to do DVNP one day.

Another nice trip...If I may suggest, don't miss out on the San Diego Safari Park/Wild Animal Park if you like the Zoo. They are run by the same organization so I assume you can get admission to both for a reasonable rate. The Safari park is unique in that it gives many of the animals free roam of a large area, and they have a great variety. Wonderful for photographs. Perhaps split with your Zoo or Sea World day?

Another nice trip...If I may suggest, don't miss out on the San Diego Safari Park/Wild Animal Park if you like the Zoo. They are run by the same organization so I assume you can get admission to both for a reasonable rate. The Safari park is unique in that it gives many of the animals free roam of a large area, and they have a great variety. Wonderful for photographs. Perhaps split with your Zoo or Sea World day?

Is half a day at seaworld enough? I am really keen on the zoo and we have been on safari recently, so is the wild animal park still worth it?!?

For a change, I stayed at the Rose Garden Inn in Berkeley last March rather than in SF itself. Beautiful place, if you happen to be there on a Sunday moring, I highly recommend going here for Sunday brunch, it's some of the best Thai food you'll ever have.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wat_Mongkolratanaram
http://www.yelp.com/biz/wat-mongkolratanaram-berkeley

Also, the Lawrence Hall of Science at the UC Berkeley campus is worth visiting as they have a viewpoint that offers views right across to San Francisco and the Golden Gate Bridge, as well as down to Oakland.

http://lawrencehallofscience.org/visit/info

One of my photos from there

http://www.flickr.com/photos/alasdairmulhern/4477692718/in/set-72157623730678846/

The walk along the waterfront from Fisherman's Wharf up to the Embarcadero or the ball park is lovely.

Restaurant recommendations in San Francisco:

R and G Lounge - http://www.rnglounge.com/
Suppenkucke (Has an amazing beer selection as well) - http://www.suppenkuche.com/
Shalimar's or Lahore/Karahi - http://www.shalimarsf.com/ http://www.lahorekarahisanfrancisco.com/

Is half a day at seaworld enough? I am really keen on the zoo and we have been on safari recently, so is the wild animal park still worth it?!?

Depends on what you are interested in seeing. The Safari park is a mix of zoo-like exhibits and the big open area full of all sorts. They have some very unique creatures including a pair of Northern White Rhinos. I also prefer their African elephant exhibit (bigger, more elephants, and a lot of young ones).

However, I suggest you check out the exhibit/show/activity listings at both. If it looks like you could easily spend more than 1/2 of a day at Sea World I'd probably skip the Safari park. Sea World has some great shows and interactive things.

In any case, if you are into wildlife I'm sure you will have a good time at any or all of these places. They are all pretty big and have a lot to do and see. The Zoo is so big in fact that it is hard to cover in a day!

So going forward, how do you respected fountains of knowledge rate this tentitive plan of action...??

Fri - Land, do not pick up rental car, stay with family
Sat - Pick up car, Hollywood sights, Andaz WeHo, night out in SS
Sun - Bev Hills through to SM, Venice etc. W Westwood
*"yes it would be more convenient to stay in the one hotel, however a Suite upgrade and points offers great value here"
Mon - Disneyland, no shame. Stay in Downey
Tues - Huntington Hyatt resort(governors suite); taking in Laguna/Newport
Wed - Huntington....
Thurs - Huntington.... set off for LV at lunchtime, hoping to arr for dusk, Hotel TBC
Fri - LV
Sat- LV
Sun - Set off for the GC for sunset, Hotel TBC
Mon - GC at dawn, set off for Yosemite (can we camp in Aug?)
Tues - Yosemite
Wed - Leave Yosemite late afternoon, return to LA early doors (prob Downey)
Thurs - Universal, stay at W Hollywood
Fri - La Jolla or LA, W Hollywood or with Friends in Studio City
Sat - PCH, Hotel TBC
Sun - San Fran
Mon - San Fran
Tue - San Fran, final in-n-out, bye bye on the 18.00 pm to LHR

Some additional spouting from the font...

1. (First Thu.) Sunset in LV will be around 19:30, so you don't have to leave HB until around 14:00. Since there are several of you, you can use the HOV lanes and not worry too much about traffic delays leaving OC eastbound.

2. (Second Mon.) The drive from the Grand Canyon to Yosemite is going to be 12+ hours, more if you use US 395 or US 95 northbound. Rather than trying to find someplace to camp that night, for which you would definitely need reservations inside the park, why not stop short in some roadside motel, maybe around Mariposa or Lee Vining (depending on your route) then make an early dash into the park on Tuesday morning? Maybe that's your plan already, but camping or getting into the various accommodations inside Yosemite in the summer can represent quite a challenge. Make no mistake on the crowd factor. http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/where.htm And will you have room in the car for camping gear? (NB sleeping in cars is not allowed outside of campsites. The rangers are snotty about this.)

3. (Third Fri.) Instead of more driving down to La Jolla, consider spending the day in Manhattan/Hermosa Beach, or maybe Mulholland Drive + Malibu. Do you really need another six hours behind the steering wheel?

4. (Third Sat.) Especially if you hit Malibu the previous day, push hard on the right pedal on the Ventura Fwy. rather than taking SR1 along the coast through Malibu etc. Just aim for Santa Barbara (maybe a late breakfast or a chip butty (http://www.macssb.com/Menu.html) on State St.) then SR1 past SLO. You should shoot for San Simeon for that night, hopefully in time to take a tour of the Hearst Castle before it closes; it's well worth the effort.

Pazza,
I just caught up on this thread, I have a few more comments now.

Although I thought the drive through DV was really great, we did it in November, and it was 90F even then! (after getting up to watch the sunrise at 6.30am, we went back to Furnace Ranch and had a game of basketball, it was too hot to play by 9am!) I have to respect some of the comments on here, and perhaps August isn't such a sensible time to go through the park.

Also, I'm not a fan of your plan to drive from Yosemite back to LA. There is just too much driving. When I did this trip 3 years ago it was 6 guys, aged 27-30. We have been on a lot of trips together, this is a closest we ever came to falling out, after 3 days of driving and being couped up in a minivan together we just started to get a bit grouchy.
If you want to hit LA twice, I really suggest LA-LV-LA-SFO, you can visit Yosemite from SFO pretty easily.

You asked about the price difference on Vegas hotels weekend vs week, put it this way if you stay on the strip the difference could probably pay for the helicoptor! A hotel on the strip is something like $40 a room mid-week, and $200 a room at the weekend. And that is something basic like Harrahs, Hooters etc.. I've never looked at the more expensive places. Spending more on a room in vegas is a waste if you do vegas right!

Finally, you kind of pooh-poohed the wine country suggestion as an old-man trip! I am a wine enthusiast, but I feared my other friends would be bored by it. However it turned out being one of the best days of the trip! We stayed in Sonoma, I booked a limo to pick us up in the morning, we had champagne for breakfast in the limo, the driver took us round a bunch of wineries, he was really fun and even had lunch with us, we had a nice meal in the evening and then managed to have even more fun drinking in one of the town bars.

I may be biased, but you're missing out on an awful lot of great stuff in Northern California.

Wine country, Gold country, Monterey, Yosemite, Lake Tahoe, the state capital, etc....

18 days and only 2 days in SF?

I'm not saying you won't have a good time, but there's just so much more.

Sun - Bev Hills through to SM, Venice etc. W Westwood
[/B]

And for sunday lunch...

http://www.babybluesvenice.com/#/home

Is it churlish of me to be somewhat disappointed by the contrast in number of responses to this thread on the BA board vs my vaguely-kinda-sorta-similar thread (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/los-angeles/1196708-advice-sought-split-first-trip-la.html) on the LA board? :( (I suspect the answer is yes; nonetheless this has a fair amount of info I can use too, so thanks BA board ^)

Yes - this is always the case - you get much more informative replies on the BA board than you get on the country specific one. You've had 9 replies to your port in 5 days whereas this one has had 78 in 4 days!! Once it's moved from the BA forum it will die a death. I think on here a lot of us have been or are going and as tourists will have a different perspective than those who are living there.

With regard to hiring a convertable we looked into that and there just isn't enough space for 4 people (2 adults+2 teenagers) and luggage (and shopping?) - what we did instead was when we were staying a few days somewhere was to hire a Mustang Shelby for a couple of days and a Hummer for another day, then when it was time to move on swap it back for a normal 4x4. In any case it will be much too hot in Las Vegas to have the roof down.

With regard to shopping there are several Premium outlet centres where you will get excellent bargains especially on American labels. There's one at Camarillo just north of Malibu, and another one which may be on your route is at Gilroy just south of SFO. If you go to San Diego there's one at Carlsbad.

I think you're trying to do too many things - it could all be a bit of a blur.

With regard to shopping there are several Premium outlet centres where you will get excellent bargains especially on American labels. There's one at Camarillo just north of Malibu, and another one which may be on your route is at Gilroy just south of SFO. If you go to San Diego there's one at Carlsbad.

There's also one on the way to Vegas, at the Nevada state line.

Take advice from here, it's all good; but you really can't go wrong.

Yes, it'll be hot in Vegas but I can't see you lot spending too much time out in the hours of daylight in Vegas. My tip for where to stay would be to get on Expedia and see what 5* hotels have deals on, there's usually a couple.

I've been to LA & SF and prefer SF by a mile. I've also been to Santa Cruz and would not advise there.

Not been to San Diego, but I've heard wonderful things about it.

You're gonna have a great time!

Yes - this is always the case - you get much more informative replies on the BA board than you get on the country specific one. You've had 9 replies to your port in 5 days whereas this one has had 78 in 4 days!! Once it's moved from the BA forum it will die a death. I think on here a lot of us have been or are going and as tourists will have a different perspective than those who are living there.

Exactly! I knew beforehand that I would get THE best possible assistance here, even better than dedicated CA travel forums. I even threw in a couple of BA references in my OP to help keep it on topic and ensure its longevity here. The BA forum are a helpful bunch, I am very greatful for the lengthy repsonses, tailored advice and even generous PM's offering insight and help^

Going forward...

I feel like I have taken a step back due to 'option overload'(for want of a better phrase), and I agree with britbronco22 and quitecontrary's recent posts suggesting that I am trying to see "too much" and that it could all be a "bit of a blur". Perhaps something has to give ...and no, not some of my time in LA;).

Is it really 12 hours+ of a drive from the GC to Yosemite? What approx is the driving time from Vegas? Also, how long is the drive from Yosemite back to LA? Are LV hotel rooms really that significantly more mid week than weekend(end of Aug)? What is the difference in atmosphere there midweek? We could pull it forward to a Thurs-Sat... or, if we are considering not returning to LA(although I am sure we will have to if we want to do PCH) then we could put it off until a Mon/Tue- of the following week. Alot of questions there...

Perhaps I should consider britbronco22'a suggestion for Yosemite of daytripping or over nighting as a side trip from San Fran, this was originally one of the possible options I listed a few posts back. Considering a Helipcopter tour of the GC would give us an extra day, as we would be staying over night if driving, + it would cut back on the driving time to Yosemite if starting from LV I would suspect -although it would likely eat into the budget for something else. Either way we are going to have to double back at somepoint in the car, not unless Yosemite or PCH is cut out. I do like Gordyloo's advice of aiming straight for Santa Barbara when we start PCH from LA. Cutting out La Jolla on our 'LA return' seems a good decision logostically also -perhaps we could visit during our stay in Huntington.

San Diego I think we could skip to be honest, we could claim visiting under La Jolla which in my experience is nicer. To be fair I have only spent time downtown in the gaslamp area in the past, however Coranado and the Zoo/Sea World are not my thing to be honest, I think I could be confident that my friends would not be missing out on too much either if we were to skip it. I feel the same towards the Queen Mary, I have visited and throughly enjoyed it as I am sure one of my Friends would however the other 2 may find it a little less interesting, where as other activities and attractions would be a winner for us all.

Thanks again guys. 17 days is just not enough, if ever a place that needs time to see it, it is the West Coast

Just have a look here: http://www.starlinetours.com/SelfDriveTours.aspx

Or just look for California Self-Drive in Google. Don't book the tours but just see the routes they are taking.

Going forward...

I feel like I have taken a step back due to 'option overload'(for want of a better phrase), and I agree with britbronco22 and quitecontrary's recent posts suggesting that I am trying to see "too much" and that it could all be a "bit of a blur". Perhaps something has to give ...and no, not some of my time in LA;).

Is it really 12 hours+ of a drive from the GC to Yosemite? What approx is the driving time from Vegas? Also, how long is the drive from Yosemite back to LA? Are LV hotel rooms really that significantly more mid week than weekend(end of Aug)? What is the difference in atmosphere there midweek? We could pull it forward to a Thurs-Sat... or, if we are considering not returning to LA(although I am sure we will have to if we want to do PCH) then we could put it off until a Mon/Tue- of the following week. Alot of questions there...

Perhaps I should consider britbronco22'a suggestion for Yosemite of daytripping or over nighting as a side trip from San Fran, this was originally one of the possible options I listed a few posts back. Considering a Helipcopter tour of the GC would give us an extra day, as we would be staying over night if driving, + it would cut back on the driving time to Yosemite if starting from LV I would suspect -although it would likely eat into the budget for something else. Either way we are going to have to double back at somepoint in the car, not unless Yosemite or PCH is cut out. I do like Gordyloo's advice of aiming straight for Santa Barbara when we start PCH from LA. Cutting out La Jolla on our 'LA return' seems a good decision logostically also -perhaps we could visit during our stay in Huntington.

San Diego I think we could skip to be honest, we could claim visiting under La Jolla which in my experience is nicer. To be fair I have only spent time downtown in the gaslamp area in the past, however Coranado and the Zoo/Sea World are not my thing to be honest, I think I could be confident that my friends would not be missing out on too much either if we were to skip it. I feel the same towards the Queen Mary, I have visited and throughly enjoyed it as I am sure one of my Friends would however the other 2 may find it a little less interesting, where as other activities and attractions would be a winner for us all.

Thanks again guys. 17 days is just not enough, if ever a place that needs time to see it, it is the West Coast(BTW it's Gardyloo, as in get off the street.)

Yes, the distances are extremely long. It's 700 miles from Tusayan AZ (the nearest town to the main GC visitor's center) to the western entrance to Yosemite Park, and more like 750 if you approach from the east (e.g. US 95.) Except on some 70 mph stretches of Interstate, the speed limit is 60 or 65 mph. Of course people go faster where they can, but you also need to factor in fuel and people stops, road construction, traffic in urban areas, getting behind a string of RVs on 2-lane roads with oncoming traffic, mountain roads.... and so on. Plus a few guys driving fast in a convertible is nothing less than red meat to the troopers, CHIPs, or the eyes in the sky. You don't want a $300 speeding ticket from the Blowfly Police Department. I'm no slouch when it comes to driving rapidly, but I've never been able to average more than 50-55 mph "net" on longish road trips. YMMV, but I doubt it. (Oh BTW it's probably between 8 and 9 hours from LV to Yosemite and 5 1/2 from GC to LV. The 12 hrs for GC - Yosemite would be by taking I-40 and avoiding returning via LV, otherwise it would be 13-15 hours.)

Coming back, from Yosemite to Downey it's around 330 miles, the first 50 or so slow going out of the mountains, then rapid through the San Joaquin Valley to the Grapevine, then slow/trucks/LA congestion the rest of the way. I'd allow at least 7 hours for that trip.

But it's not just the distances; it's sensory deprivation too. There will be scenic bits, but on e.g. Yosemite > Downey, they will be over quickly, followed by extremely flat and boring (and hot and dusty) terrain. And in August the heat on the valley floor can be oppressive - not as hot as the desert, but potentially more humid. And definitely smoggy in LA, especially (no offense intended) in the eastern part of the bowl, i.e. Downey (the region that the late Reyner Banham called "the Plains of Id.")

I understand your dates are fixed at LV and Huntington, but they sound more flexible when it comes to the post-HB period. IMO returning from Yosemite to southern California is ill-advised; it's too far and too boring. Wouldn't it be possible to start in LA, go to Vegas, take the chopper tour of Grand Canyon (which will truly be a once-in-a-lifetime thing, as opposed to driving all day, standing on the rim, going "ooh" and then having to drive 6 hours back to LV) and then return to LA and cluster all remaining activities together in one go? In other words, do HB, Disneyland, San Diego/La Jolla (optional IMO) and other touring around the area, then leave to the north, not to return.

The coast road from LA to SF via Highway 1 is especially scenic from around Ventura at the south end to Monterey at the north. From Monterey into SF you can either continue around Monterey Bay through Santa Cruz, then up into SF on the west (less boring, but slow/suburban) or cut over to US 101 at Salinas and into SF on the Bay side of things. Either way, the coastal scenery is replaced with suburban scenery pretty much most of the way.

My suggestion would be to exit SR 1 at Monterey, then cross the width of California to the mountains, and enter Yosemite from the west. From Monterey it would take around 4 hours to cross to the park (Monterey > SF is 2) so really not that big a time penalty. Visit Yosemite, then head into SF (also 4 hours), and you've accomplished both aims - coast and Yosemite - but saving something like 12 - 14 hours' boring driving in the process. Use those hours (and the money for fuel and lodging) for something more rewarding.

Vegas hotels generally price to fill, so the atmosphere doesn't change much. And busier = worse in Vegas anyway, just more queues, more crowds. Do it midweek.

And you are mad driving from Yosemite back to LA. At worse, drive to SFO and fly.

With regards to driving, you will always underestimate how long it takes. Food breaks etc all add up, and you really CANNOT speed because the police are out for you. This is NOT the UK, where speeding is generally tolerated on motorways and A roads. I agree with the 50mph average quoted above.

Vegas hotels generally price to fill, so the atmosphere doesn't change much. And busier = worse in Vegas anyway, just more queues, more crowds. Do it midweek.

And you are mad driving from Yosemite back to LA. At worse, drive to SFO and fly.

With regards to driving, you will always underestimate how long it takes. Food breaks etc all add up, and you really CANNOT speed because the police are out for you. This is NOT the UK, where speeding is generally tolerated on motorways and A roads. I agree with the 50mph average quoted above.

I really don't see the big deal with driving back to LA from Yosemite. It's a little over 100 miles further to LA than SF. If you leave Yosemite in the late afternoon you can arrive back in LA after rush hour and skip the traffic nightmare. Door to door it can be done in about 6-7 hours. I've done this trip many times in the past year as we are planning for our wedding in Yosemite in June.

As for Vegas, I also prefer midweek for lower rates and better upgrades. When it is really busy it is definitely worse, e.g. huge lines for food, impossible restaurant reservations, etc.

...go to Vegas, take the chopper tour of Grand Canyon... and then return to LA and cluster all remaining activities together in one go? ...then leave to the north, not to return[/I]

This is the order britbronco22 also recommended; LA-LV-LA-(PCH)-Yosemite-SF... so perhaps this is an alternative worth considering, my only conerns with this are:

1. GC -Not only is the budget allowing a Helicopter tour a worry, however a few posts actually recommended driving out, staying over, seeing it at dusk/dawn over taking a Helicopter day trip.

2. For all of the driving time we will save, which can only be so much, is it worth passing out on the Death Valley/Tioga Pass drive up to Yosemite? We will have to double back twice on this route albeit shorter journeys than Yosemite> LA, which as suggested by bubb1 is no a 'big deal'... we can take turns driving and it will be a 'new road' where as LV-LA and Yosemite-SF will have already been driven if I am correct?

Surely driving from Yosemite to LA is not as crazy as driving to SFO and flying back down? We would have to hand in the car and I am sure time wise it would probably work out to be the same, and of course it would be a more costlier option. If we were to go to SFO, and then do PCH from there 'the other way around', we would still need a domestic back up to SFO -keen to avoid taking an internal.

Vegas mid week is something to consider. We have decided on 2 nights only here, and basically wanted to do it hard, party, gamble, spend -however if we can save money and still get just as similar an atmosphere at the end of Aug then I will look into it. Any hotel recommendations; Friends out there have recommended the Palms, PH, Hard Rock, MGM, Encore... does it really matter? I see some Vegas hotel deals are occassionally posted on FT, perhaps I should just pounce on something that offers good value when it comes along -I do like the sounds of lounge access with food and drink, although having seen pictures of PH recently it does seem inkeeping with our W Hotel theme running through out this trip.

FYI Guys... I have SPG points aplenty, already have tentitive C+P nights booked at the W Hollywood, Westwood, San Fran. If you can recommend any other Starwood properties along the way within this trip then please suggest. I think we will go for camping at Yosemite, we could borrow a tent from friends in LA 'if we are returning', or I am sure we could hire one if we are visitng Yosemite from SF instead towards the end of the trip.

Thanks again, feel free to keep any recommendations coming. Even the Sunday Brunch spot recommendation in Venice is something we may very well go forward with.

Regarding your LV stay, it may be worthwhile signing up for email alerts from
here, http://www.smartervegas.com. There's lots of offers and promotional codes available on there.

Also, I read earlier in the thread about problems with one way car rental e.g Lax to LV. If you book with carhire3000, they waive the one way fee. (you have to do the booking over the phone and ask them to waive it)

I guess it really boils down to how much of a "perfect California trip" you want to spend driving through unattractive countryside over routes you've already taken, resulting in seeing less of California and more of featureless highways.

There are some givens that you just have to acknowledge:

Nevada, Arizona and California deserts in August are extremely hot, and not (IMO) "romantic" hot, or top-down kind of hot. Dangerous hot.

Distances are long. The Grand Canyon to Yosemite to Los Angeles is the rough equivalent of Inverness to Land's End to Ipswich, except some of it will be on poorer roads, and at slower speeds than on the M6. If you want to use the back way (Tioga Pass) into Yosemite, then it's more like Wick to Land's End.

August is peak domestic tourist season, and this year, with the dollar so weak against other currencies, and airfare being so expensive, it's expected that many Americans are going to opt for staying closer to home, going camping and car touring, etc. - much more than usual. In California, which is the largest state in terms of population, also the most mobile, that means places like Yosemite and the coast are going to be experiencing higher-than-normal tourist volumes (if that's possible) hence there will be intense competition for things like camping spaces.

Outside of major urban areas (which in your case means Las Vegas, Los Angeles/Orange County, San Diego and the SF Bay area, there are very few major hotel chain places. It's much more a mom-and-pop or motel-chain landscape. Your SPG points may not be terribly useful in Bodfish.


But ultimately it's your choice. I think returning from Yosemite to LA is ridiculous; returning from LV or the Grand Canyon is much easier and time-effective. Go LA > LV > GC > LA, then LA > Coast > Yosemite > SF, or if you're that keen on Tioga Pass (and I have no idea on Earth why) then do so when you leave Yosemite and head up the east side of the Sierras to Reno or Tahoe, then enter SF on I-80.

But like I say, it's your party.

Ahh, some really conflicting advice here regarding 'LV-The GC & Yosemite':confused:

Not just the routing and order, also on how best to do it...

Mid week or weekend for LV
Drive or fly to the GC
How to enter Yosemite(& in what car)

One thing is certain though, I am not premature in the planning of this trip -it sounds like even a camping space in Yosemite will need to be booked ASAP. I know what we want to see, it is just structuring it all into a solid itinerary so we can plan and make reservations around it.

I am swinging towards driving back to LA after Vegas now -it does sound like a long drive up to, and back from Yosemite in heat that might not let us appreciate the drive. In saying that though, I would prefer the 'LV-GC-Yosemite-LA' order. Decisions...

In saying that though, I would prefer the 'LV-GC-Yosemite-LA' order. Decisions...

That is way too much. And I think that they started limiting the amount of cars going into Yosemite.

LA-LV is only 3:30- 4 hrs drive, Since you might be starting from Downey, you are almost on your way to LV. I would come back to LA then drive north.


And honestly your plan should be rough draft, you might have soo much fun in LV that you'd rather stay another day. Let it be flexible. BTW Ca, ain't going no where, age is. You are young enjoy Ca they way young people do. Some of your trip can be done at an older age. If you get my drift.:D

If I was to skip anything from that trip it would be the Grand Canyon. It will indeed still be there years from now and although the drive from LV is quite beautiful it is a long way to go for a crack in the ground.

Las Vegas is less (!!) fun in the weekends because it gets flooded with people who want to party and oddly enough that spoils that same party. As I said earlier, if you want to party with the young people who work in Vegas (as you should) weekdays are a better bet. Unless you are filthy rich and love to spend thousands on champagne at the clubs. In that case the club at the Venetian (TAO) is pretty good since they employ a lot of scarcely dressed stunners who will pretend to be in love with you all night long. Or at least until the bar closes... :)

http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL359/11064950/23746217/395953457.jpg

http://94.100.121.181/447050001-447100000/447073101-447073200/447073120_5__JYJ.jpeg

http://94.100.118.34/447050001-447100000/447073301-447073400/447073325_5_g2Eu.jpeg

At least I think this was the Tao. Can't quite remember... :D

I agree with Yahwillwe - this is California; relax and enjoy rather than trying to do too much!

L In that case the club at the Venetian (TAO) is pretty good since they employ a lot of scarcely dressed stunners who will pretend to be in love with you all night long. Or at least until the bar closes... :)


At least I think this was the Tao. Can't quite remember... :D

I hope you don't remember, because if TAo has the same scene like the one in NY, then SKIP SKIP it. Not fun at all.

HB... he is going to LV, everyone is is scantily dressed expect the nuns ;) and sometimes I am not so sure about those either?

everyone is is scantily dressed expect the nuns ;)

Should I expect scantily dressed nuns? :D :D

That reminds me of the opening scene of episode one of Californication (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7XzcGnUCI0)....

Sweet baby Jesus, Hank is going to hell!

Tao I find to be one of the best places in LV but YMMV. It changes every 3 months anyway.

Should I expect scantily dressed nuns? :D :D




Tao I find to be one of the best places in LV but YMMV. It changes every 3 months anyway.

Since it has been more than 25 years since I last set foot in LV I can honestly say that I don't know the city. BUT I asked the daughter of a friend (HB, you remember, the one who was lost all over Europe when the snow fiasco was going on) and she said that TAO can get way too crowded and lots of old men :p. So there you go...Sp pazza are you going to scratch TAO off your list ;)

TAO can get way too crowded and lots of old men :p.

I guess that is sort of correct since that is where we hung out. :D I believe that the pictures are from LAVO (http://www.lavolv.com/) though. Not sure. Wherever you go, make sure you book a table in advance, especially on weekends.

Best places are still the ones where the tourist don't go.

PS: I am still waiting for the friend's daughter's phone number!

PS: I am still waiting for the friend's daughter's phone number!

Cindy @ 949-555-1212... or is it Candy???

I guess that is sort of correct since that is where we hung out. :D I believe that the pictures are from LAVO (http://www.lavolv.com/) though. Not sure. Wherever you go, make sure you book a table in advance, especially on weekends.

Best places are still the ones where the tourist don't go.

PS: I am still waiting for the friend's daughter's phone number!

Now you are showing us how to party, the real way. I will make sure that I am going to be on the invite list next time you go for a drink!

Haha just when this thread was bordering on tedious...a taste of Vegas :D

Hi
Did a similar trip 2 years ago with my family (total of 4). Highlights of our trip:

- we hired a Lincoln Towncar for 3 weeks and drove LA -> LV -> LA -> SFO. Last of the great American road barges, so they won't make them like that for too much longer.
- Getty museum.
- Vegas. Especially 'Phantom of the Opera', Bellagio fountains and the dinner buffet at the Wynn!
- Signature at MGM Grand in Vegas was one of the best hotels we stayed in, and if you shop around you can get a great deal (was definetly the best vfm hotel on the whole trip).
- helicopter trip to the Grand Canyon. We went in July - so v hot - but taking the sunset trip meant it was a little cooler and the sun was setting on our trip back. Magical. Did a lot of research on this one as so expensive, but Grand Canyon Helicopters were very good, and their new choppers are very smooth. We had the 6 seater to ourselves, so effectively a private trip.
- PCH was outstanding, and can recommend the Intercontinental at Monterray ('The Clement'). Probably the best hotel, but quite expensive.

I agonised over Yosemite, but in the end couldn't find the time in what was a packed trip...:confused:

Hope that's helpful. PM me if you'd like more detail ^.

Cabbage

Hi
Did a similar trip 2 years ago with my family (total of 4). Highlights of our trip:

- we hired a Lincoln Towncar for 3 weeks O. Last of the great American car

Sad they won't make them anymore. Wonder what the livery cars will use now.

Sad they won't make them anymore. Wonder what the livery cars will use nowApparently a livery version of the MKT (http://www.lincoln.com/crossovers/mkt/).

Here's my 2 penny's worth:

- Grand Canyon is definitely better from the north rim than the south. It's a good 4-5 hour drive from Vegas, but if you're lucky and you book far enough in advance, you can get a night in a cute log cabin that overlooks the canyon. Well worth the effort to get up at 5.30am to watch the sun rise.

- my favourite Vegas hotel is the MGM Signature towers. Big junior suites, balconies, huge bathtubs, and usually available for less than $150 per night. Takes 10 minutes to get downstairs and into the main MGM, but when you do get there, the first thing you pass is the monorail station, which is vital for getting from one end of the strip to the other. Don't try to walk it, it's way further than you think, hellishly hot, and you'll be pestered the entire way by touts or mexicans trying to sell you hookers.

- Yosemite is definitely worth a trip, and the neighbouring Kings Canyon and Sequoia national parks are just as good. From Frisco it's a manageable drive in a day, and plenty of places to stay overnight.

- PCH is better going south than north, but still worth the experience. Make sure you stop at the sea lion beach.

- Ditch the car when you get to San Fran, parking on those hills is scary. In addition to the other stuff recommended, definitely go whale watching. We spent a magical day last summer surrounded by humpbacks, grey whales and dolphins of every description.

I'm hoping to do a roadtrip of either the South or the Great Lakes this year - not with BA sadly as I used up all my miles last year, have just enough miles with AF for a pair of biz class returns...

...and now over to the California forum for any further input.

Swanhunter
Moderator, BAEC

...and now over to the California forum for any further input.


Where it will sadly die off;)

Thank you for the run, and for all of the excellent advice, recommendations and personal insights received so far

There are so many things I have to come to a decision on, although the main crossroad I am still at is how to order it. The GC, PCH and Yosemite have all individually been recommended as doing/or dropping -although pushed for time, it would hard to give up on one. So a return to LA will have to be a cert, be it from LV or Yosemite.

Albeit hot i would like to see the inland drive up to Yosemite from LV/GC, we will not have been in the car for a few days so should have the patience for a long drive, we would also be able to borrow a tent from family in LA who we would be able to return it to. However, I think a return to LA after LV is leading the way, with a visit to Yosemite straight after PCH or within our stay in SF. Albeit it the same amount of driving in total, it will be broken up. We can also stick to a Convertible, as we will have no tent or 'Death Valley' heat to drive through.

Driving to the GC or taking a Helicopter is another one... I want the photos of the GC and the Hoover dam. A fky over will be amazing although I want time to savour and the photos to go along... we will have the car(which we will not have driven for 2 days) with us anyway and a Helicopter would be one of the larger hits on the budget.

Signature at MGM does seem nice, we are looking for a good deal... if we have to pay, so be it.... as long as I can get a great deal and know that most will be paying more then us then I will be happy. A 2 bedroom suite for 4 would be great, and sowould lounge access or a hotel with a good buffet/loose with complimentary drinks.

We can also stick to a Convertible, as we will have no tent or 'Death Valley' heat to drive through.Well it's not as if LV is a fridge compared to Death Valley. Average mid-August high temperatures in Death Valley are only around 10F higher than the same days in LV. You'll need air conditioning and how in both cases; with the top down you'll be pretty scorched in just a short time.

You might also find yourselves needing the car whilst in LV anyway; the Strip is very long, plus you might want to sample the delights of the Downtown casino area ("Glitter Gulch") for which you really need to drive.

There are so many things I have to come to a decision on, although the main crossroad I am still at is how to order it. The GC, PCH and Yosemite have all individually been recommended as doing/or dropping -although pushed for time, it would hard to give up on one. So a return to LA will have to be a cert, be it from LV or Yosemite.

I suggest doing LA - Vegas, followed by Vegas - GC, then return to LA via Vegas (the most direct route). For the second part of your trip, drive LA to SF via the Pacific Coast Highway. Go out to Yosemite from SF and then back.

Note that this itinerary has you driving likely in excess of 2000 miles. That's more than a lot of people can handle for a leisure trip, even one spread over 2-3 weeks. That's the main reason why people here are encouraging you to drop or swap one of your destinations. For some, though, 2000 miles is fine. I've done that much in a single week, three times. Make a sober analysis of your driving stamina and preferred vacation style before committing to such a trip.

gardyloo, you make a good point about the heat. However my line of thought was that as our desert driving would be much less if we do Yosemite post PCH, then we could put up with the heat for the sake of having a convertible. We really would like to have one for LA & PCH, changing cars mid way will cost time and money so with the top up for the best part hopefully a convertible will be fine for the drive to LV & GC.

darthbimmer, the LA-LC-GC-LA-PCH-SF/Yosemite route seems to be more so recommended. In my mind it is just as much driving doing LV/GC-Yosemite-LA-PCH-SF, and the Death Valley drive sounds like a good photo oppourtunity... however I will trust the advice from several you that it will be just too much driving in a not ideal climate. I agree that it is alot of driving, however it is fairly well spread out don't you think? Any 'desert driving' between LA-LV-GC (or YOSEMITE-LA) would be carried out non stop.

A few people have now suggested we are trying to do too much and should cut a leg off, with the GC being suggested first -however I just can not do that, we really want to see the GC and Yosemite and obviously LA-PCH-SF are fixed. It is alot to do however is it still easily manageable?

I feel like I am going around in circles here, I am just so concerned about getting the 'right' itinerary (with a bias of LA;))

[M]y line of thought was that as our desert driving would be much less if we do Yosemite post PCH, then we could put up with the heat for the sake of having a convertible.

Having a convertible will make a huge difference in your enjoyment of Yosemite. It's a big plus on the PCH, as well. Around LA and out in the deserts it's nice when the weather's nice, survivable when it's not.

Be aware that most convertibles don't hold 4 people comfortably. Even those with a back seat are typically considered 2+2 cars. The back seat's not suitable for adults over 5'4". And, even if all 4 of you fit in the passenger area, luggage space is going to be extremely tight.

darthbimmer, the LA-LC-GC-LA-PCH-SF/Yosemite route seems to be more so recommended. In my mind it is just as much driving doing LV/GC-Yosemite-LA-PCH-SF, and the Death Valley drive sounds like a good photo oppourtunity...

The heat in Death Valley will be intense in August. It's manageable, though. And if you're going that way you should take the beautiful drive up US 395 along the eastern face of the Sierra Nevada mountains. Enter Yosemite via CA-120 from the East, via the stunning Tioga Pass.

I didn't suggest this above because I'm being cautious about offering new ideas at this point. Your plan already contains a significant number of variables. As you said, you are going in circles. You need to converge more parts of your itinerary rather than consider ever greater numbers of alternatives.

Of course, if you want more alternatives, I can offer enough to make your head spin. Your trip spans three utterly beautiful parts of the country.

I agree that it is alot of driving, however it is fairly well spread out don't you think?

Yes, it's spread out. If you cover 2000 miles total in 18 day your average is just over 100/day. But the average isn't the whole story. There will be some days you drive 500+ miles (e.g., Grand Canyon to LA) and some you drive none.

As I said in my previous, each person has different ability and tolerance for long drives. What you're proposing is definitely within reason-- for some people. I know several who could do it easily. But I also know people who consider a two-hour drive exhausting. I don't know where you are in that spectrum. You and your travel companions have to decide that for yourselves.

darthbimmer makes a good point about how our driving tolerances vary. I'd be fine with either option, but I don't mind driving all that much, especially if the next stop is a great destination (or BA F :cool:).

The heat in Death Valley will be intense in August. It's manageable, though. And if you're going that way you should take the beautiful drive up US 395 along the eastern face of the Sierra Nevada mountains. Enter Yosemite via CA-120 from the East, via the stunning Tioga Pass.

I didn't suggest this above because I'm being cautious about offering new ideas at this point. Of course, if you want more alternatives, I can offer enough to make your head spin. Your trip spans three utterly beautiful parts of the country.

Yes, it's spread out. If you cover 2000 miles total in 18 day your average is just over 100/day. But the average isn't the whole story. There will be some days you drive 500+ miles (e.g., Grand Canyon to LA) and some you drive none.

Thanks darthbimmer, a great insight^

Earlier on in this thread the above back route was suggested to Yosemite after LV/GC, however I was told by some I would be crazy to do it due to the heat and driving time there/back to LA(we would want to return to LA to do PCH Nr) and should return to LA after LV. I am trusting the advice, however a part of me still thinks it would be worthwhile doing... If returning to LA from LV, and doing Yosemite from PCH/SF, we would likely cover the same mileage and cover less unique road(i.e we would be double backing more so).

New ideas would be welcome, especially regarding the Grand Canyon & Yosemite; where to stay, how best to do it, what to see en route. I think the LA-LV(+GC)-LA-PCH-Yos-SF, or alternatively LA-LV(+GC)-Yos-LA-PCH-SF is a winner despite covering alot of miles. Perhaps for this trip, an SUV(or large car) would be better, and essential if we change our mind and do LV(GC)-Yos-LA. We will be covering alot of miles however we will be taking turns driving, and it is fairly spread out -I am glad to hear it is manageable, I am familiar with LA traffic so my driving tolerance is pretty high.

Earlier on in this thread the above back route was suggested to Yosemite after LV/GC, however I was told by some I would be crazy to do it due to the heat and driving time there/back to LA

It's only crazy if you don't plan enough time for the distance you expect to cover and the activities you plan to do.

If you haven't done so already, get really familiar with studying these areas on Google Maps or some other service. You'll get distances, alternate routes, and estimated driving times. Cross reference it with sites that offer more information about specific destinations. For example, visit the National Park Service (NPS) at www.nps.gov, for detailed maps and information on sites such as Grand Canyon and Yosemite.

New ideas would be welcome, especially regarding the Grand Canyon & Yosemite; where to stay, how best to do it, what to see en route.

I suggest that instead of visiting Grand Canyon you visit Zion National Park and possibly also Bryce Canyon. Zion is about 3 hours from LAS. It doesn't have the box-ticking cachet of Grand Canyon but I think it's prettier and more enjoyable. I love to hike Angel's Landing and the Virgin River narrows.

Perhaps for this trip, an SUV(or large car) would be better, and essential if we change our mind and do LV(GC)-Yos-LA.

Your group is 4 people with 2-3 weeks of luggage and a lot of miles to cover. A vehicle large enough to accommodate you all comfortably is an absolute necessity. You're going to need, at minimum, a full-size sedan. Even then you will probably be squeezed for luggage space. I urge you to seriously consider a full size SUV (macho and big) or a minivan (less macho but extremely practical).


We will be covering alot of miles however we will be taking turns driving, and it is fairly spread out -I am glad to hear it is manageable, I am familiar with LA traffic so my driving tolerance is pretty high.[/QUOTE]

... Perhaps for this trip, an SUV(or large car) would be better, and essential if we change our mind and do LV(GC)-Yos-LA. ...
Now you are starting to make more sense to those of us who live here in the heat and sun. I understand the allure of a convertible for a "California road trip" but quite frankly, a convertible in August in either the heat of Death Valley and the Mojave Desert or the altitude of the Yosemite high country would be miserable. A friend and I did it many years ago when we were young and stupid and the wind- and sunburns were epic. Trust me on this. For long driving days you will be far more comfortable in the shade and air conditioning of a full size car or SUV. Just be aware that the SUVs are real gas guzzlers and the cost of gasoline is skyrocketing right now. Coming from Europe, the price likely won't surprise you much but the sheer quantity of fuel you will burn on this trip will be amazing. An SUV will only exacerbate this.

As for deciding how to get to/from Yosemite, I have to say that the Tioga Pass route which traverses the Park east/west via State Route 120 has some of the most spectacular scenery you will see on this trip. It is best while driving west to east but almost as nice in the other direction. If you want to do some of your driving in a loop rather than backtracking, I'd suggest either heading north on SR 395 after crossing Death Valley and then cross through Yosemite Park on your way to San Francisco. Alternatively, if you go from San Francisco to Yosemite, you can traverse over to the east side and drive south on 395 to get back to Los Angeles, avoiding the San Joaquin Valley route back south. It would only add a few hours to your total drive time and that whole stretch of SR 395 from Yosemite to the Mojave is truly beautiful.

If I were planning this trip, I'd go LA-Las Vegas-Death Valley (insert Grand Canyon if you must) -Owens Valley north to Yosemite-San Francisco-PCH-LA in one big loop. If you have time to stop along the way after Death Valley, this route takes you right past Mount Whitney, Manzanar, the Alabama Hills, Devils Postpile National Monument, the volcanic area of the eastern Sierra, Mono Lake, Tioga Pass, Yosemite, the Delta country, Napa Valley wine country (a short deviation), San Francisco, Santa Cruz, Monterey, Carmel, Big Sur, the Pacific Coast, Hearst Castle, the elephant seal colony area, Cayucos/Morro Bay, Santa Barbara (more wine tasting areas), Ventura, Malibu and Los Angeles. There would be far more to see and do than you could possibly fit in but you can pick and choose what you like and not backtrack any driving.

Now you are starting to make more sense to those of us who live here in the heat and sun. I understand the allure of a convertible for a "California road trip" but quite frankly, a convertible in August in either the heat of Death Valley and the Mojave Desert or the altitude of the Yosemite high country would be miserable. A friend and I did it many years ago when we were young and stupid and the wind- and sunburns were epic. Trust me on this. For long driving days you will be far more comfortable in the shade and air conditioning of a full size car or SUV. Just be aware that the SUVs are real gas guzzlers and the cost of gasoline is skyrocketing right now. Coming from Europe, the price likely won't surprise you much but the sheer quantity of fuel you will burn on this trip will be amazing. An SUV will only exacerbate this.

As for deciding how to get to/from Yosemite, I have to say that the Tioga Pass route which traverses the Park east/west via State Route 120 has some of the most spectacular scenery you will see on this trip. It is best while driving west to east but almost as nice in the other direction. If you want to do some of your driving in a loop rather than backtracking, I'd suggest either heading north on SR 395 after crossing Death Valley and then cross through Yosemite Park on your way to San Francisco. Alternatively, if you go from San Francisco to Yosemite, you can traverse over to the east side and drive south on 395 to get back to Los Angeles, avoiding the San Joaquin Valley route back south. It would only add a few hours to your total drive time and that whole stretch of SR 395 from Yosemite to the Mojave is truly beautiful.

If I were planning this trip, I'd go LA-Las Vegas-Death Valley (insert Grand Canyon if you must) -Owens Valley north to Yosemite-San Francisco-PCH-LA in one big loop. If you have time to stop along the way after Death Valley, this route takes you right past Mount Whitney, Manzanar, the Alabama Hills, Devils Postpile National Monument, the volcanic area of the eastern Sierra, Mono Lake, Tioga Pass, Yosemite, the Delta country, Napa Valley wine country (a short deviation), San Francisco, Santa Cruz, Monterey, Carmel, Big Sur, the Pacific Coast, Hearst Castle, the elephant seal colony area, Cayucos/Morro Bay, Santa Barbara (more wine tasting areas), Ventura, Malibu and Los Angeles. There would be far more to see and do than you could possibly fit in but you can pick and choose what you like and not backtrack any driving.

This is all very good advice; however the OP is departing from SFO so has been trying to figure out how to do both the east slope/Tioga/Yosemite drive and the PCH drive northbound to end up in SF. The debate has therefore been whether to return from Yosemite (presumably exiting to the west) and through the valley (99 or I-5) through your neck of the woods back to LA, then finish on the PCH, or drive the PCH after LV/Grand Canyon (last I checked the DV alternative had been nixed) and then visit Yosemite as a two- or three-day RT from SF (or, as I had suggested, to leave the PCH at Monterey, cut over to Yosemite, exit through Tioga Pass, go up to Tahoe and enter SF on I-80.)

As to the vehicle, I agree an SUV will suit them better in the desert/mountains portion of their trip. If they were still hung up on the ragtop, maybe they could return to LA from either LV/GC or from Yosemite and swap out the SUV for a second rental car, in this case a convertible, for the drive up the coast. They'd all have to sit on their luggage as there won't be room in the boot for roof + bags, but that's the price of livin' the dream, I guess.

You know, with all the various "options" bandied about in this 3 page thread, I lost track of that one little point. :p Depart via SFO. Doh!

Unless a return all the way to LA is required, I'd still do what I suggested, but change the part after Yosemite to follow SR41+46+101 southwest from Yosemite straight across via Fresno to the coast near San Luis Obispo and then north on the PCH. The best part of the coast drive is SLO-SF. The southern portion from LA-SLO wouldn't really be missed.

If 2 visits to LA are required (at the beginning and in the middle of the trip) then all bets are off and I withdraw my suggestions. I certainly wouldn't do it (I despise LA and SoCal in general). The drive back to LA from Yosemite is about 6 hours, mostly through farm and/or commercial-industrial areas and not really very pleasant. To each his own. ;)

If 2 visits to LA are required (at the beginning and in the middle of the trip) then all bets are off and I withdraw my suggestions. I certainly wouldn't do it (I despise LA and SoCal in general). The drive back to LA from Yosemite is about 6 hours, mostly through farm and/or commercial-industrial areas and not really very pleasant. To each his own. ;)

No need for bets to be off, its only a few extra hours to LA from SLO I assume;). A return to LA would be ideal, we may have left some luggage there to travel light to LV/GC/Yos. Having friends and family there I would like to return for a day or two, and more importantly we would need to return to dp PCH, I would like to start from LA and would be good to have a day or two in Luxury between Yos and PCH. I thought about doing SFO first and taking PCH down to LA, taking a domestic back up to connect to our ex-SFO flight home... however the cost and hassle of a domestic, and having to keep the car for a few extra days(we could loose it if we end on SF, not in LA) was not worth it.

Is it really only 6 hours from Yos-LA?? That is not so bad, in an SUV(can safely write off the convertible option, it would be iconic however not great for 4 tall guys in desert driving). Perhaps if the drive is manageable then maybe we should put the LV-Yos drive back on the map, as opposed to doing it after PCH and before SF.

Also coming round to the idea that the GC should be first to go, per the cost of a Helicopter or Driving distances. If so then an extra day to do a more liesurely/overnight drive to Yos might be ideal taking in the mojave, bryce, zion if possible.

Right now the possible Itinerarys I have in my head in order of preference are:

1) LA-LV-GC-*LA-PCH-*Yos-SF
* How long approx are these drives?

2) LA-LV-GC-Yos-LA-PCH-SF

3) LA-LV-Yos-LA-PCH-LA

4) LA-LV-Yos-PCH-LA-fly-SF..we would skip SFO after Yos and head straight for PCH taking a flight up to SF to 'do it'

Right now the possible Itinerarys I have in my head in order of preference are:

1) LA-LV-GC-*LA-PCH-*Yos-SF
* How long approx are these drives?

2) LA-LV-GC-Yos-LA-PCH-SF

3) LA-LV-Yos-LA-PCH-LA

4) LA-LV-Yos-PCH-LA-fly-SF..we would skip SFO after Yos and head straight for PCH taking a flight up to SF to 'do it'

Rough times, YMMV:

LA (Downey) > LV, 4 - 4.5 hrs.
LV > Grand Canyon (North Rim), 4 hrs.
LV > Grand Canyon (South Rim Visitor Center), 5 hrs.
Grand Canyon (North Rim) > LA (Downey), 8.5 hrs.
Grand Canyon (South Rim) > LA (Downey), 8 hrs.
Grand Canyon (North Rim) > Yosemite Village via Tioga Pass, 12 hrs.
Grand Canyon (South Rim) > Yosemite Village via Tioga Pass, 13 hrs.
PCH (say Monterey) > Yosemite Village via Mariposa entrance, 4 hrs.
Yosemite Village > SF, 3.5 hrs.

Note these are "wheels turning" times, not including stops for fuel, food, sightseeing, etc.

One thing I don't think has been brought up is that if you're going from Yosemite to SF, California Hwy 49 is extremely scenic and historic. It passes through the "Gold Rush" country from the 1849 strike (hence the road number) and offers up some very interesting stops including some near-ghost towns. Worth exploring.

One thing I don't think has been brought up is that if you're going from Yosemite to SF, California Hwy 49 is extremely scenic and historic. It passes through the "Gold Rush" country from the 1849 strike (hence the road number) and offers up some very interesting stops including some near-ghost towns. Worth exploring.

Good tip... I think the drive from the GC - Yosemite is too much for one day, and I would imagine the drive back from Yos to LA would be another long one also. If we do the GC from LV, and return to LA I think it is more manageable albeit the same amount of miles covered in total. Doing Yos after PCH and arriving into SF via this route you have suggested after Yos sounds such as scenic and breaks up the driving.