Cruises - Have You Bought Art on a Cruise Ship?

Hello,

I'm wondering if any of you have purchased art at one of the auctions aboard a cruise ship.

I'm writing an article for Cruise Critic and would love to talk with travelers who have actually bought a piece of art.

If you'd be willing to answer a few questions, please send me a private message.

Thanks!

Andrea

More to the point, I would never cruise on a ship with art/jewelry for sale.

More to the point, I would never cruise on a ship with art/jewelry for sale.


Jane,

Have you cruised on a ship recently that didn't have an art auction? I'm only finding a few lines that don't offer this diversion and would love to talk with a few cruise execs about why they don't support art auctions at sea. Thanks!

Andrea

Currently I sail on Seabourn and they certainly do not have art sales. From anything I have ever read, the art is over-valued and who would cruise to buy art on a ship? But I also find the Seabourn gift shops over-valued, although well-appointed.

Are you talking about real auctions such as the ones I normally either go to at established houses such as Sotheby's, Christie's, &c. or something designed for passengers that won't exactly be covered in the New York Times report on the auction season. :confused:

Thanks, Jane!

Jspira, the auctions aboard some cruise lines are run by Park West Gallery (although Princess runs its own auction house for its ships). I haven't come across any cruise line working with auctioneers like Christie's, Sotheby's, or Bonhams.

The type of art being showcased and sold runs the gamut from Peter Max to Thomas Kincaide to animation cells, etc.

Jspira, the auctions aboard some cruise lines are run by Park West Gallery (although Princess runs its own auction house for its ships). I haven't come across any cruise line working with auctioneers like Christie's, Sotheby's, or Bonhams.

The type of art being showcased and sold runs the gamut from Peter Max to Thomas Kincaide to animation cells, etc.

Thanks, Andrea. The company seems rather mass market and, based on its Web site, it doesn't really seem to sell anything (how can I put this gently) "important" - much more mass market to a mass audience, it would appear.

But to return to your original query, I do seem to recall that a friend of mine purchased something on a ship, it might have been at an auction, so I will ask and if it was and he is willing to talk about it, I will be happy to let you know. Good luck with the piece.

I also cruise on Seabourn and it is very clear why they don't do this. My bet is they would lose a lot of their customers (including me) if they started such a low end over priced time wasting activity. These overpriced "auctions" don't quite have the appeal to people who attend onboard lectures by former US ambassadors, etc.
I wonder how u are writing an article if u are surprised that there are lines that don't use these company's (not meant as a personal attack).

Every cruise I have been on has featured an "Art Auction". The "art" is mostly prints or production line bad paintings typically seen over motel room beds. I haven't attended a full auction, but have often walked through the auction area and paused for a few minutes to observe.

Never have I seen a piece sold. What I have observed is the "auctioneer" introducing a piece with a long, fluffy speech and a ridiculous price (like, say $1500 for a Thomas Kincaid print), gradually lower the price to maybe $500 and then, when no one "bids", retire the piece as "unsold". Typically, there are 20-30 older people sitting listlessly about sipping the free (dirt cheap) "champagne" that was used to entice them to attend.

I have often wondered why the cruise line continue since little, if anything seems to sell. Most pax that i have chatted with find the "art" tacky and unappealling and the "auctions" a rip off.

I have never seen a piece onboard that I would be interested in owning. But, if I did, I would assume that I could get the same print or painting copy much more cheaply by shopping around at home.

With a little googling, you can find many stories from unhappy purchasers who arrived home to find the "art" they purchased is worthless. I am amazed that they ever thought otherwise, but apparently some pax fall for the "auctioneer's" representations that the pieces have sky high "appraised" values.

Seems to be a lot of negativity on this subject....

My wife and I have purchased art aboard a couple of Princess cruises and it's not just prints and posters and the finger paintings of second graders. Princess has had original works by the most famous of artists.

We hadn't intended to buy art on a cruise ship but checked it out, slopped down a couple of gallons of that dirt cheap champagne, liked some of what we saw, and ultimately bought limited edition Michael Godards, a Viktor Shvaiko, and a couple of Sharie Hatchett Bohlmanns.

At the end of the day, if it's something that you like and that you want, buy it. It hangs in our house primarily for our enjoyment and others need not be burdened by having to gaze upon it.

As to pricing, it was certainly more than competitive with what one could have bought them for on "land".

Andrea, I will respond to your PM hopefully later today.

It's good to hear a positive report. You are right, the art is for your enjoyment, not mine.
I should think Andrea would get a better response over on the CC Forums.

I just googled up websites selling pieces by artists mentioned above--Yes, those prints looked quite similar to the sort of things being being auctioned on Holland America and Celebrity cruises.
The only other art I have seen as these auctions is a huge number of prints of famous works.
Apparently, there is a market for them.

This is very entertaining article on cruise ship art auctions: http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/2006-11-09/news/the-art-of-piracy/

More disturbing, here is a list of articles detailing lawsuits against cruise ship art auctions:
http://www.fineartregistry.com/articles/far_investigates/art-auction-investigation.php

and another:
http://travel.usatoday.com/cruises/post/2010/06/cruise-ship-passengers-say-they-were-swindled-in-onboard-art-auctions/96251/1

Celebrity is no longer associated with Park West Galleries. Must be they had one too many complaints and/or legal situations:eek:

On one of our early cruises we did buy a couple of lower-priced pieces (signed and numbered prints), simply because we enjoyed them (Benfields). They were relatively inexpensive and we have not regretted the purchases. But, I am sure that would not have been any cheaper on eBay. (I've looked.)

One of the problems mentioned in the articles I linked is that many of the "signed and numbered" prints have turned out to be fakes-- that is run off on good quality copy machines with forged signatures. In one case, an artist is sueing Princess because that cruise line was selling thousands of faked prints "signed" by this artist (sold to the cruise line by a woman on parole for other frauds).

I would never buy from a cruise ship - if I want a simple print, I'll go to a local store, if I want art, I try to find the artist's gallery so I know what I am getting.

I've been going to auctions (irregularly, but perhaps more regularly than most) since I was a kid and my father would take me to Christie's or Sotheby's in London. He would always thoroughly research any major pieces he would buy, not only speaking with the expert at the auction house handling the auction but checking with other collectors and experts as well (not to mention his own encyclopedic knowledge esp. when it came to anything in photography).

When I purchase something major at auction, I do the same.

Even though an auction can be fairly fast moving, if you bid by phone or Web (as I typically do more than in person) you won't get quite as caught up in the bidding and you won't go past your maximum bid. It's important to know what you are willing to pay for something and to not exceed that.

I've seen a lot of people get carried away and pay way more than an item could possibly be worth - and they are typically novices, I should add.

We have bought "art" on board cruise ships. We like the style of Thomas Kincaid paintings. After purchasing a few on board, we went to a local Thomas Kincaid gallery (since closed) and compared prices with our purchases. The same prints we purchased on board were less expensive than what the gallery was selling them for. We have also purchased some animation cells that our children enjoyed and still have them hanging in their rooms.

Funny how people put their noses down on buying art during a sea auction. While I agree that most of the items up for auction are over-priced and less than interesting, if there was not a market, Park West would not be present.

I've grown up in a household where all of the facets of art was part of understanding life and other cultures, I enjoy art wherever and whenever, including on a ship. My husband and I have purchased art aboard a ship (NCL). The items are beautiful and once properly framed and matted, clearly look like gallery quality.

Art is in the eye of the beholder. Not all artists started glamorously out of a gallery such as Cezanne, Dali, Manuel Lepe or even Gerogia O'Keefe. So for those of you who only consider art valuable when only purchased through a gallery are missing the boat. (No pun intended). Art is located wherever the beauty of imagination is displayed.

I'm only finding a few lines that don't offer this diversion and would love to talk with a few cruise execs about why they don't support art auctions at sea. Thanks!

Two reasons, I'd wager: quality control and liability. Unpleasant pressure or oily used-car sales tactics, to say nothing of low-value pieces, are difficult for a cruise line to control but still hurt their brands. And if a buyer is sold a fake or pays an exorbitant markup for a motel-room print, the line can easily get yanked into a legal fight.

A cruise ship is about the last place on Earth I'd look to acquire art. You're out of your element, in a loopy, spendy mood, your judgment and defenses are down... which is, of course, why purveyors set up shop on board.

...if there was not a market, Park West would not be present.

If there was not a market for counterfeit Viagra made from chalk, all those "Canadian Pharmacy" websites wouldn't be present either. That doesn't make it an ethical business or a good buy.

Hmmm.

Well, my whole house is full of art I've bought on cruise ships. These posts are really discouraging, not because I feel like I've been ripped-off, but because I feel like people here are judging my own taste.

I get a lot of compliments from my friends on the art I've bought (they all refer to my house as "the museum") and I've had nothing but good experiences in buying the art. The only issue I've ever had was a damaged frame, which was replaced.

I've also picked up a few other pieces here and there at other galleries, but I think the most fun I've had buying art has always been on our cruises (two pieces off of Princess Fine Arts and the rest from Park West Galleries.) Of course I didn't grow up going to auctions at Sotheby's, but I also think those auctions would put me right to sleep. It's a lot more fun when the people doing the auction are entertaining.

I guess it's like anything else in the world - you say tomato and I say tomatah...but let's not call the whole thing off!

cbrown is right, I am passing judgement on the "art" offerred on cruise ships. I do think it is mostly shlocky, sentimental crap interspersed with possibly fraudalent, clearly overpriced prints. Reading those kind of opinions is part of participation in an online forum. Were I a guest in cbrown's home, I would never say anything judgemental about her decor. Even in the forum world, if cbrown proudly posted a picture of her living room with a giant Thomas Kincaid over the sofa, I wouldn't post a negative comment about the print.

But, here the topic is Buying Art on a Cruise Ship. The poor quality of the art on board is certainly fair game. Clearly, the fraudalent practices of Park West Galleries and the legal trouble Princess has gotten into selling illegal prints with fake signatures are also germaine to the discussion.

For those posters who are happy with their purchases, I say great--That helps clear up for me why the cruise ships continue to offer these dreadful "auctions".

I've bought on Princess and generally find them to be pretty reliable. I'm not really buying anything real major, and certainly don't consider it an investment. Generally what I've bought Princess has a good relationship with the artist, so it seems kinda unlikely to me that they're selling fakes with those (these artists a frequently on the ships). Obviously, not everything is that great a deal, but I definitely don't feel ripped off by what I've bought, and I've done the research to do some comparisons. Wyland and Behrens are two artists I've been interested in. You couldn't pay me to buy a Nichita or however that's spelled. (Couldn't pay me to buy a Kinkade either to be honest, I did notice that those have started showing up on Princess ships.)

I've purchased several cheap pieces off of ships knowing the reputation of Park West, but I'm not buying them as a pure investment; I just simply liked the art, and it was less than $100. In no way would I buy a Max, or similar, as there is no way I could authenticate their true value from a reputable dealer aside from the "trained" auctioneers of Park West. You are a captive audience, and they know it.

In no way would I buy a Max, or similar, as there is no way I could authenticate their true value from a reputable dealer aside from the "trained" auctioneers of Park West. You are a captive audience, and they know it. Great point. It's like buying a used car when the nearest mechanic you trust to check it out is back on dry land. The isolation works against the buyer's interest. A cheap print for fun? No harm in that. Anything more? Crazy.

We cruised with Royal Caribbean in Sep 2010 and there was no art auction aboard our cruise. I was disappointed. I was looking forward to the entertainment the auction provides plus the free chocolate covered strawberries we once received at our first Park West auction at sea on Carnival in 2007.

We cruised with Royal Caribbean and they had the Park West auctions on the Adventure, which has the "Promenade". We did not buy anything but enjoyed the champagne. On the smaller ships (Radiance, Vision, Sovereign classes) they don't seem to have these auctions.

We cruised with Royal Caribbean and they had the Park West auctions on the Adventure, which has the "Promenade". We did not buy anything but enjoyed the champagne. On the smaller ships (Radiance, Vision, Sovereign classes) they don't seem to have these auctions.

On the Vision class, they do. When I cruised on Grandeur a couple years ago, the lectures were held on the deck 4 centrum, and the auction was held in the South Pacific lounge (deck 6, aft.) I've never been on a Soveriegn class ship, but based on the deck plan and pictures I've found, they are pretty tight ships, so if they do have any lectures and auctions, it'd have to in Boleros and the aft lounge, respectively. As for Radiance class ships, I've never been, but if the Vision class can do it without hassle, then there's no reason why the Radiance class can't do it via the same setup.

I have been to the Princess auctions a number of times, although I have not made a purchase. They tend to be fairly informative to an art amateur such as myself.

What I have noticed is that the art tends to sell on the dozen or so cruises that I've been on. The auctioneer will bring out a Dali or similar household name for $20K, but I've yet to see one sell in that price arena. What tends to sell are those pieces under $1K. I have also found that the ships itinerary tends to influence sales. Maybe it's the clientele who sail on a $1,000 Caribbean cruise versus a $10,000 mediteranean cruise.

Oberall, I find the art auctions and galleries to be a pleasant diversion.

I've bought all kinds of stuff onboard. I really like my collection, and I've even met a couple of the artists. My friends are always trying to get me to sell them my artwork, and I refuse!

Finally, I had to take one of them with me to an event Park West had in Boston, and they ended us spending more than I did. The funny thing is she didn't buy anything like what she had liked at my place - she ended up buying a really neat looking Miro!

It's a pretty cool thing for people who didn't grow up in the art world.

What's this? Thomas Kinkade is now allegedly art? :p

Most "art" I have seen sold aboard anything ranges from mass-produced and significantly overvalued to absolutely faux - see DeirdreTours' post immediately following - with one possible exception: the Antarctic trip we took with Robert Bateman, who painted and drew some originals on the trip and auctioned them for conservation.

Lectures and the like? Sure!

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTRWn94TUEB0DmtlUfcWtA4_zU1ZnvTk V0TK8aWL9Yoz8M5-Yp4AQ

Good evening.

Off-topic or uncivil posts have been deleted.

And topic check: "Have You Bought Art on a Cruise Ship?" :)

Thanks,

cblaisd
Senior Moderator

>"Funny how people put their noses down on buying art during a sea auction."
I am not looking down on a ship that sells art or those cruisers who buy it. I just choose not to sail on ships that have that (or Bingo) as an activity. There is a cruise for everyone. I am only interested in lectures, Trivia, and the odd cooking demonstration and un-watered down champagne.

I have never bought any art onboard but I did stumble across a lot of complaints regarding Park West. Do a web search on Park West lawsuit. Not pretty!

Hi, Andrea, I know this is an old thread and may be defunct at this point, but I'm curious if you got any feedback from people who purchased art at an on-board auction but never received it?

I am a travel agent and one of my clients contacted me to help him with an issue of this sort. He sailed with on the Celebrity Equinox in April and never got his art. When he tried to track it down he got the runaround for weeks. I got involved and we discovered that the auction house is in bankruptcy and that there are THOUSANDS of people who have been screwed by this. Not only that, I have found a number of comments online that lead me to believe this has been an on-going issues for over a year and yet Celebrity and other cruise lines CONTINUED to host the company (British American Auctions, but they also seem to have operated on P&O as British Australian Auctions). After a LOT of pestering Celebrity has now decided to refund peoples' money (ONLY if they file a claim, so please let people know they can do that). My issue at this point is that I don't think that's adequate.

I believe that the cruise line who continued to host this company even though they had not been delivering a lot of the art for MANY months requires more of response. They clearly profited royally from their cut of sales, so I hardly think their gesture of paying people back is enough. I wonder if this is something that might warrant a class action lawsuit against Celebrity or Royal Caribbean. Not so much because the auction company went bankrupt, but because they must have known there were serious problems (not even to mention the issue of whether the art is legitimate) and yet Celebrity continued to deliver the company a captive audience to sell to. Oh, and it turns out that British American hired the guy who was largely in charge of Park West to run the thing. I think that should have been a giant red flag.

If you have any suggestions on how to find others who have been cheated out of their money by this auction house (and their cruise partners) I would appreciate any suggestions.

i haven't & wont buy art on a cruise....

>"i haven't & won't buy art on a cruise...."

I won't sail on a cruise line which offers such schlock activities.

I bought a few pieces back in 1997. (Celebrity: Mercury sailing in the Western Caribbean). At the time, I paid approx $40-50/item and I got some freebies/$10 pieces. They looked nice. My late aunt bought some too. We only bid on pieces that looked nice (Rockwell prints, etc). Paid more to have them framed than it cost for the prints.

In recent years on NCL cruises, the prices Park West were asking were very high. Of course, they were hyping the Salvador Dali, Peter Max, Kincade, Picasso prints, etc that were in the 1000's. Way out of my league. Not too much sold that I could tell. Unlike 1997 when nearly everything sold at Auction.

The only painting I bought on land was a Thomas Kincade Christmas Cottage (1990) back in the mid 90's. I paid less than $300 for it and it looks nice. An art store was closing and they were originally asking $800 but for $275, I liked how it looked. I wanted to buy more paintings but I had limited funds at the time.

It's probably too late for the OP, but never ever buy art on a cruise ship. It's a scam.

I go in to get free champagne and laugh at the used-car-style antics successfully used by the salesmen to get people to buy.

Just came across this, and can't resist the temptation to put in my 2 cents worth.

We have been on one cruise (RCL). We took our 2 sons, both of whom were teenagers. Our younger son was interested in the auction, so we took him. We saw a print we liked, we bought it, and arranged for it to be framed and shipped to us.

It now sits in our dining room as a reminder of a great family holiday. i'm sure some people would say it is something other than "art". Frankly, I don't care. I bought it for my own reasons, and within my own budget.

I have no idea whether or not it is a good idea to attend cruise ship auctions, and to buy expensive works as investments. I suspect not.

However, that is the sort of thing which requires considerable research beforehand. It is not very prudent to buy expensive pieces of art on a ship based on the assertion by the auctioneer regarding the value of the work.

I have read some of the complaints, and it seems that people have done just that. I'm afraid I am not very sympathetic.

The whole thing is very simple really. If you see something you like, and the price seems reasonable, then you should probably buy it if it is legitimate. If others don't like it, well, maybe they should be more concerned what you think of their stuff. On the other hand, if you are trying to make money, you should probably make some effort to understand the nature of the business you choose, as well as the level of risk.

So, to those of you who have bought things you liked at cruise ship auctions, good for you. if others don't like what you bought, don't invite them to your home.

Cheers to all.

By the way, my first post. Now to find some cheap travel.

It now sits in our dining room as a reminder of a great family holiday. i'm sure some people would say it is something other than "art". Frankly, I don't care. I bought it for my own reasons, and within my own budget.



And that's the right attitude to have.

The last piece I bought is still sitting in the box at home. I simply have no place to hang it, but I love its theme.

And welcome to FT!

British American (from Celebrity Cuises) was started by the same people who used to supply Park West with onboard auctioneers.

The whole Park West approach has been questionable from the start. They hire auctioneers from a third party so they can claim a level of distance between what the actioneers say onboard and what is actually being sold. However, during the auction you will constantly hear the "Park West Gallery" name mentioned several times, and the company does send out the art, frame and even appraise it.

Any auction house that owns and appraises its own art is automatically not following typical art auction protocol.

The reason Celebrity and Royal Caribbean dropped Park West was too many lawsuits, many of them starting very soon now (end of 2011, early 2012). It amazed me when Celebrity went with British American - and they got ripped off. The company even left their auctioneers onboard and made Celebrity fly them home.

Meanwhile the British-American parent company had just received a round of funding by private equity. There is just WAY too much monkey business in the field of cruise ship art auctions for anyone to feel confident about the value of their purchase - unless you bought it purely for sentimental value.

I am the editor of CruiseMates.com and I have done several articles on this topic.

I am the editor of CruiseMates.com and I have done several articles on this topic.


Kuki, is that you?

<snip>
It now sits in our dining room as a reminder of a great family holiday. i'm sure some people would say it is something other than "art". Frankly, I don't care. I bought it for my own reasons, and within my own budget.
<snip>
The whole thing is very simple really. If you see something you like, and the price seems reasonable, then you should probably buy it if it is legitimate. If others don't like it, well, maybe they should be more concerned what you think of their stuff. On the other hand, if you are trying to make money, you should probably make some effort to understand the nature of the business you choose, as well as the level of risk.
<snip>

I would generally agree with this and think this is a reasonable approach and there is value in the intangibles of a reminder of a great experience
Personally, we've checked out the previews and love a number of the pieces but just have found the costs of "prints" don't fall within what we would fall under our own value definitions.

To the comments above, I'd like to add one additional point that has not been raised.

There are several companies that compile historical result lists from all auctions at reputable houses. One can typically subscribe to one of these services for less than $15 for a day or about $150 a year. You can commonly do basic checks, such as whether a specific artist is in the service's database, for free. Most, maybe all, of these services cover prints as well as original works.

Practically the first thing to do for any artist that has been around a while is to see what their works have been selling for. But, with these on-board auctions providing few advance lists of what is for sale and with on-board internet access being expensive or difficult, one of the very best tools available to consumers is generally not readily available. That alone should be a major caution.