Religious Travelers - If you use tefillin on Alaska Airlines, you are a suspected terrorist

Outrageous (http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/u-s-pilots-trigger-terror-alert-over-orthodox-jews-tefillin-ritual-1.348992)

3 guys using tefillin MEX/LAX caused a cockpit lockdown, escort off the plane, and questioning.

Already discussed here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/1194038-orthodox-jewish-ritual-causes-security-concern.html).

Already discussed here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/1194038-orthodox-jewish-ritual-causes-security-concern.html).

Yes, but this is quite specific to religious travelers who may never visit the other forums.

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.601 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/417)

It could have been worse: they might have been diverted to Philadelphia. :)

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/22/nyregion/22airplane.html

Outrageous (http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/u-s-pilots-trigger-terror-alert-over-orthodox-jews-tefillin-ritual-1.348992)

3 guys using tefillin MEX/LAX caused a cockpit lockdown, escort off the plane, and questioning.

IMHO what both the crew and those 3 guys did was Nuts. As I posted in anotehr thread depending on what time they left and landed they might not have had to put them on during the flight.If they left before the earliest zeman (time for when its permissible to put them on and were gonna be landing before sundown, then there was no need to put them on during the flight as many poskim (Rabbis) have stated.

that said I would have thought by now that the crews would understand what is a threat and what isnt and if they cant tell then they dont belong working a flight. I guess ifa person crosses themselves before take-off the FAs should call for the pilot to abort the takeoff afterall maybe they are up to something and know it will be their last time doing this, NOT

depending on what time they left and landed they might not have had to put them on during the flight.
AS241 MEX-LAX, 6:00 am-8:55 am

They definitely could have waited, but still I'd have to agree that FA's should be trained about tefilin by now.

AS241 MEX-LAX, 6:00 am-8:55 am

They definitely could have waited, but still I'd have to agree that FA's should be trained about tefilin by now.

actually they took off early and landed early. What I posted in another post was it was reported by the AP they were connecting @ LAX to an Intl flight so w/o knowing where they were heading and what time that flight was suppose to depart they may or may not have had enough time @ LAX to put on their Tefillin and might have needed to do so on their next flight itself

as for the FAs being trained in what Tefillin are,well which JewishOrthrodox group took it upon themselves to write it up with pics and make sure each FA gets to see it? are you willing to pay for it to be done? Im not and thusly why if I find myself needing to put Tefillin on during my flight why I 1st notify a FA unless Im TLV bound

FTers argumentative?

We must have really run out of all other topics to argue over if we are reduced to arguing over z'mn kriyat shema.

Craz, looking at late June early July for Aaretz. You gonna be around?

FTers argumentative?

We must have really run out of all other topics to argue over if we are reduced to arguing over z'mn kriyat shema.

Craz, looking at late June early July for Aaretz. You gonna be around?

1- I wasnt arguing over the zeman for davening, which btw can be done while sitted in ones seat (which I prefer not to do myself if I can help it) But rather putting on Tefillin. yes if at all possible its best to wear them during Morning prays but its permissible to daven w/o wearing them just make sure that before Sundown that a person puts them on. and it was to this last pt that I was referring

For the longest time I too thought that I had to wear Tefillin during morning prays but that turns out Not to be the case, and theres absolutly nothing wrong if a person prays in the morning say from their plane seat and once they are off the plane putting on their Tefillin. I found the vast majority of people have no idea about this and thusly will tell whomever that they Must put them on while praying and standing up as well, totally wrong accordinging to most Poskim. If anything most are telling those who ask the opposite and Dont put Tefillin on until you land and are off the plane if there will still be enough time to do so before its sundown

2- TLV in June/July hasnt been my cup of tea for a while , holding a res for Chol Ha'Moed (the week of Passover) and returning the Weds after overnighting in FRA, then back for Shavuoth and Succoth. Depending on Award space on CO, too rich for my blood to pay way in excess of .10 cpeqm, especially when Im getting .025 for a few MRs to RNO out of PHL. But at last even LA is poping up now @ $428+ :eek:

I found the vast majority of people have no idea about this and thusly will tell whomever that they Must put them on while praying and standing up as well, totally wrong accordinging to most Poskim.

Is is not enough that this is what someone believes, whether or not "it is written" or "it is spoken" by someone else?

Enjoy the time, craz.
I still love the heat.

Enjoy the time, craz.
I still love the heat.

Thanks about now I was suppose to be returning from my 49 hrs in Tokyo, 40k Flex Pts cant beat that , so far UA has agreed to allow me to fly to KIX instead, will try for SIN or HKG alot more miles . Tkt was $756ai thusly why only 40k in pts. Wont see that again OK maybe if nothing blows badly they will have a sale to get people to fly over again, IMO it will some time till theres an all clear

I usually dont do immediate turns but for .025 I figured it was worth it and I will be overnighting in RNO for a night on another run the week before and probably take a drive down to Tahoe for a few hrs (that MR will get me 6100 eqms for $70 out of pocket) and maybe there will still be some snow to be seen after all here in NYC we havent had any for a couple of months

In the big pic I will earn apx 24k in RDMs for $220 that works out to a Biz tkt to TLV for $1055 , I just wish I could do that every time I want to head over there Im more then :D to pay $1055 for a Biz tkt to TLV heck I cant even buy a coach tkt for that amount

1- I wasnt arguing over the zeman for davening, which btw can be done while sitted in ones seat (which I prefer not to do myself if I can help it) But rather putting on Tefillin. yes if at all possible its best to wear them during Morning prays but its permissible to daven w/o wearing them just make sure that before Sundown that a person puts them on. and it was to this last pt that I was referring

For the longest time I too thought that I had to wear Tefillin during morning prays but that turns out Not to be the case, and theres absolutly nothing wrong if a person prays in the morning say from their plane seat and once they are off the plane putting on their Tefillin. I found the vast majority of people have no idea about this and thusly will tell whomever that they Must put them on while praying and standing up as well, totally wrong accordinging to most Poskim. If anything most are telling those who ask the opposite and Dont put Tefillin on until you land and are off the plane if there will still be enough time to do so before its sundown

2- TLV in June/July hasnt been my cup of tea for a while , holding a res for Chol Ha'Moed (the week of Passover) and returning the Weds after overnighting in FRA, then back for Shavuoth and Succoth. Depending on Award space on CO, too rich for my blood to pay way in excess of .10 cpeqm, especially when Im getting .025 for a few MRs to RNO out of PHL. But at last even LA is poping up now @ $428+ :eek:
Slightly late to the party here but I would like to elaborate on craz's statement. Tefillin were orig worn all day. Now we can't concentrate for that long, and refrain form inappropiate activities, so we genereally restrict it to SHachris (and the learning done immeasurably after.) However, Shma itself should definitely be said with tefillin (o/w ed sheker...).

One proof that it is not strictly necessary in 9 Av.

Anyway, it shouldn't be so hard for airlines to write a short blurb on various Religious Articles and send it around... But after a few more of these stories, they should find out :-S

as for the FAs being trained in what Tefillin are,well which JewishOrthrodox group took it upon themselves to write it up with pics and make sure each FA gets to see it?

Truth be told, the Federation of Jewish Mens Clubs (FJMC) has such a video (for men and for woman). http://fjmc.org/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage-ask.tpl&product_id=105&category_id=19&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=131&vmcchk=1&Itemid=131

This is the overview page... http://fjmc.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=67&Itemid=89

dh

Slightly late to the party here but I would like to elaborate on craz's statement. Tefillin were orig worn all day. Now we can't concentrate for that long, and refrain form inappropiate activities, so we genereally restrict it to SHachris (and the learning done immeasurably after.) However, Shma itself should definitely be said with tefillin (o/w ed sheker...).

So thats why the other week on my Run to Reno, I davened on the PHL-SFO flight sitting in my seat(flight left too early to bebale to daven and put on my Tefllin @ PHL) had a very short layover between flights , landed @ RNO got my car and 15 mins later I was in my Hotel room still B4 noon, put on my Tefllin and said Shema

Ideally I would would like to daven wearing them, but many Rabbis today say its better not to on the plane. Now say I was on a flight PHL-HKG (dont believe there is such a creature)and that was a non-stop and left before I could have put on my Tefllin and by the time we land @ HKG its no longer that day but the next day. Then for sure I would go up to an FA and explain what I need to do, but I really dont know if there are that many flights that will fall into such a situation. And Im sure theres another way to get to that destination with a stop somewhere that would allow enough time to put on ones Tefllin

Truth be told, the Federation of Jewish Mens Clubs (FJMC) has such a video (for men and for woman). http://fjmc.org/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage-ask.tpl&product_id=105&category_id=19&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=131&vmcchk=1&Itemid=131

This is the overview page... http://fjmc.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=67&Itemid=89

dh

IMHO the FAs need not be trained, start with Tefllin and then start adding being trained by any and all groups that have special needs.

Again for those who feel that they Must wear their Tefllin when they daven and even thou many Rabbis say its 100% OK to do so anytime before Sunset and thusly need not be done while in Flight, simply let them go up to an FA and explain what they will be doing. Even more so if they intend to vocalize their words and stand and shukkel, to those who havent seen it before will think this guy is nuts and up to something. Welcome to the Gallut

every so often TSA gives mine a going over , not everyone especially outside the main Citys know whats what

IMHO the FAs need not be trained, start with Tefllin and then start adding being trained by any and all groups that have special needs.

Again for those who feel that they Must wear their Tefllin when they daven and even thou many Rabbis say its 100% OK to do so anytime before Sunset and thusly need not be done while in Flight, simply let them go up to an FA and explain what they will be doing. Even more so if they intend to vocalize their words and stand and shukkel, to those who havent seen it before will think this guy is nuts and up to something. Welcome to the Gallut

every so often TSA gives mine a going over , not everyone especially outside the main Citys know whats what
craz, why don't you just follow your own advice and ask the FA's for flights like PHL-SFO. Surely that is a better ideal situation, and if s/he says no, then you can fallback to donning them in RNO.

craz, why don't you just follow your own advice and ask the FA's for flights like PHL-SFO. Surely that is a better ideal situation, and if s/he says no, then you can fallback to donning them in RNO.

althoiugh I flew in 1st, its a A-319 out of PHL so its a small plane and no real place to stand except in the galley. when I went back last week it was PHL-IAH-RNO and there was more then enough time to daven @ IAH before my IAH-RNO flight.

also these <6am flights usually mean the lights will be off in the cabin so at least when sitting 1 can use the overhead light to read their sidur

In 2005, Rab Isaac Mizrahi and myself with authorization from the purser we prayed with Tefillin in the galley of American Airlines 955 from JFK to EZE, we were flying business class on a two cabin flight, [name removed per FT TOS] a sleeping flight attendant came screaming against jews, tefillim and made hate slurs, American Airlines dismissed the complaint like nothing happened, American Airlines Executive Dept, and signed as Tim Rhodes (Shem Reshaim Irkav)

וְשֵׁם רְשָׁעִים יִרְקָב
It should go from Tim Rhodes @ amr to all that cause trouble.