US Airways Dividend Miles (Pre-FlightFund Merger) - Standby cleared... and then renegged (in favor of an unaccompanied minor)

I just received this email from my sister.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
So close, but so far........I got to the airport early, hoping to get on the 1 p.m. flight to Boston. I was on stand-by. I then got on the plane. Was almost seated when they called me back.....an unaccompanied minor was booked on that flight and finally made his way to the gate with the US Air personnel. So, off I went. Good thing I hadn't given them my luggage. So, now I am hanging around the Pitt Int'l Airport. My real flight is at 4:10 p.m. Oh well. </font>

I have never seen this before... an airline "renegging" after clearing you off the waitlist. Doesn't US wait to clear standbys until the point where they would otherwise not fill the seat? I guess that an UM creates more of an urgency to get the booked pax on the plane, but the experience seems very unusual. I don't fly US. Anyone seen this before?

[This message has been edited by andymo99 (edited 08-15-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by andymo99:
Anyone seen this before?

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No, but once they handed her the boarding pass and she got on the plane, she was entitled to compensation. On US 99% of the time that is a free round trip ticket any where US flys domestically. Did they give her anything?

I had this back in the Metrojet days @BWI. As GP, I was number 1 on a very full flight to FLL. (they were always full) They called my name printed out a BP then an man running approached the gate with 2 min to dep, the agent took the BP out of the printer and ripped it up and said too bad. I demanded denied boarding comp since i was on the cleared list on the flight and my status at that time was OK. but after a letter I got a 75.00 voucher. they broke the law!

Their real issue is the UM. They are responsible for them. The adult can sit and wait with being watched or monitored. It was just a convenience for US for the UM to be on their way.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MikeM6090:
Their real issue is the UM. They are responsible for them. </font>

Agreed, and if I had been the G/A I would have pulled someone off too.

With that said, The pax they pull off is still entitled to compensation once they have a confirmed seat on the flight.

[This message has been edited by longing4piedmont (edited 08-15-2003).]

If it were me I'd get over it real fast.

Stuff happens.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by CPRich:
If it were me I'd get over it real fast. Stuff happens.</font>

No more calls. We have a winner.


If I were flying standby and the agent cleared me and put me on the plane and then came onboard and said the UM showed, I'd be off that plane in a flash and wouldn't ask for a thing. As a matter of fact, I doubt "compensation" would have crossed my mind. Seems to me the same crowd that would seek compensation in a case like this is the same crowd who want US to bend rules in their favor as well - but only if the bending of the rules is to their benefit. As CP Rich says, stuff happens. Let's keep a bit of perspective and move on...



[This message has been edited by geo1005 (edited 08-15-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by geo1005:
No more calls. We have a winner.


If I were flying standby and the agent cleared me and put me on the plane and then came onboard and said the UM showed, I'd be off that plane in a flash and wouldn't ask for a thing. As a matter of fact, I doubt "compensation" would have crossed my mind. Seems to me the same crowd that would seek compensation in a case like this is the same crowd who want US to bend rules in their favor as well - but only if the bending of the rules is to their benefit. As CP Rich says, stuff happens. Let's keep a bit of perspective and move on...
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http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif

A beacon of realistic perspective in a sea of gimmee, gimmee, gimmee. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

YAHOO!!! Logic prevails - for once. My faith in my fellow man is restored.... for now.

GEO is correct. People always want some type of compensation when things don't go their way. The standby passenger is not due anything from the gate agents.

But did you have the boarding pass in your hand? That is the key question.

I have seen many a GA print out boarding passes for people who are upgrading day of and then holding them before actually clearing the passenger.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by DCAML:
I had this back in the Metrojet days @BWI. As GP, I was number 1 on a very full flight to FLL. (they were always full) They called my name printed out a BP then an man running approached the gate with 2 min to dep, the agent took the BP out of the printer and ripped it up and said too bad. I demanded denied boarding comp since i was on the cleared list on the flight and my status at that time was OK. but after a letter I got a 75.00 voucher. they broke the law!</font>

I only partially agree. Considering US has moved in the direction of nickel and diming us for a $25 stand-by fee. They should at the bare minimum refund the stand-by fee and give the passenger a heartfelt apology.

If this case by the terms and conditions of carriage, this is an involuntary bump and the passenger is entitled to compensation. Just calling them by the book in this case. I have been involuntarily bumped before and took the voucher but negotiated a free pass for the day to the US Club in lieu of cash comp--didn't want to take Dave's money (on vacation that is why i was so nice---i guess)

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by geo1005:
No more calls. We have a winner.


If I were flying standby and the agent cleared me and put me on the plane and then came onboard and said the UM showed, I'd be off that plane in a flash and wouldn't ask for a thing. As a matter of fact, I doubt "compensation" would have crossed my mind. Seems to me the same crowd that would seek compensation in a case like this is the same crowd who want US to bend rules in their favor as well - but only if the bending of the rules is to their benefit. As CP Rich says, stuff happens. Let's keep a bit of perspective and move on...

[This message has been edited by geo1005 (edited 08-15-2003).]</font>

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by NeoOfTheCRS:
I only partially agree. Considering US has moved in the direction of nickel and diming us for a $25 stand-by fee. They should at the bare minimum refund the stand-by fee and give the passenger a heartfelt apology.


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This is all I would expect. When it comes to kids and older folks, they come first... I think we should also be willing to give up upgrades if a special situation warrants.

I do think US should give back the $25 standby fee however.

[This message has been edited by kv99 (edited 08-15-2003).]

Of course the standby fee should be refunded. But if we are going to be jerks if we get cleared standby and then get taken off the plane, then the airline will tell us to get lost and won't even let us standby at all.

Years ago I was flying CO, connecting in IAH. My inbound was 1/2 hour late, but I somehow made my connecting gate within 10 minutes, even though it was on the other side of the airport.

I already had my BP, so I walked onto the plane to see another guy in my FC. We had the same seat assignment. The agent came to the rescue and gave the guy a new Y BP.

He had been standing by for an upgrade. The gate agent must have thought that I would never make the connection, so she proactively upgraded him.

The guy took it well.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by USFLYER1:
GEO is correct. People always want some type of compensation when things don't go their way. The standby passenger is not due anything from the gate agents. </font>

Your are just flat out wrong. It is not a matter of something going my way. Contract of carriage states that the pax has now been involuntarily bumped. It is not a case of gimme, gimme, gimme. He is required to do it. It is not a matter of wanting to bend the rules, its a matter of the airline FOLLOWING their own rules

Now go back and read my post. I would have done the same thing the G/A did, it was the right thing to do with an UM. Maybe I'm wrong but I got the feeling that his sister was not a frequent flyer, and at this point I'm guessing that a G/A knew that and did not do what the contract specifies he is to do. Dunno, maybe he would have gotten in hot water for clearing a pax when he probably should have known that an UM was on the way to the gate.

In this case I doubt that I would taken any compensation. It would have depended on how the G/A handled it. But if it had not at least been offered, you bet, I would have made them abide by the rules. They certainly expect me to when it is in their favor.

[This message has been edited by longing4piedmont (edited 08-15-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by geo1005:
No more calls. We have a winner.


If I were flying standby and the agent cleared me and put me on the plane and then came onboard and said the UM showed, I'd be off that plane in a flash and wouldn't ask for a thing. As a matter of fact, I doubt "compensation" would have crossed my mind. Seems to me the same crowd that would seek compensation in a case like this is the same crowd who want US to bend rules in their favor as well - but only if the bending of the rules is to their benefit. As CP Rich says, stuff happens. Let's keep a bit of perspective and move on...

[This message has been edited by geo1005 (edited 08-15-2003).]</font>
Woh wait a second now so US can now just break DOT regulations when ever it feels like just because they need to fix a mistake they made?Im not saying that the UM should not be taken care of first just saying that if US makes a mistake they should have to pay what ever they need to rectify it just like I do if i book for the wrong dates by accident.
Furthermore This is a clear case of involuntarily denied boarding in my book.Once you clear the standby list and are handed that boarding pass you have a confimed seat on that flight you are entiled to the same benefits as everyone else if there were involuntarily denied boarding.Us airways should report this to the DOT as a involuntarily bump and should have to pay the compensation depending on how long she was delayed by this.That said why didnt they ask for a volunteer to give up there seat in exchange for a free ticket before.I'm sure someone would have been kind hearted enough to take the bump for a UM.If not then involuntary bump someone.
-howie
ps.Do you know if the UM was connecting or Ex pit?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by stockmanjr:
just saying that if US makes a mistake they should have to pay</font>

Yes, yes, screw the @#$%@$#. Make 'em pay. That's how we want to deal with the airline we fly multiple times a week. An adversarial relationship - that's always best. Let's p http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif&s off the gate agents that we'll probably see again next week - that's the way to make air travel pleasant and efficient. Why give 'em honey when you can use vinegar.

I guess this explains why some agents give me that slightly surprised smile and 'thank you' when I'm flexible with some issues (not all, but I'm reasonable) and they go out of their way to do the little extras for me next time.

I guess we have our BBB pax too.

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they should have to pay what ever they need to rectify it just like I do if i book for the wrong dates by accident.</font>

Good analogy. US gives you 24 hours to cancel a ticket, for a mistake or any other reason. I think giving them 5-10 minutes is fair.

Vinegar wins the battle; honey wins the war. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif

In the scenario above I just do not think I could bring myself to seek denied boarding compensation. The letter of the law may dictate that I'm entitled to it but I don't see how the scenario above would justify it. JMHO.

If it even crossed my mind (which as Geo said, it may not have), as the agent was taking me off of the plane, I probably would have made a jokey kind of comment (With a total smile on my face) to the effect of:

"I guess I'm getting a voucher for this, eh?"

Be totally pleasant about it, with a joke and smile. You never know. The G/A may say, "you know what, what the heck?"

[This message has been edited by nawlinsdoc (edited 08-16-2003).]

Interesting posts!
I can not see myself EVER getting upset in front of the gate agent over this situation. The kid gets on the plane and I don't Pure & Simple.

Now since BBB loves his rules so much and in the example shown I would have several hours to kill. I would not surrender the boarding passs issued, I would leave the gate area immediately after being denied boarding and head to the club and crawl all over Consumer Affairs via phone, fax and e-mail and DEMAND full compensation. After all according to BBB, "No Waivers, No Favors"! I am merely applying the same stilted logic the BBB operates under. I am always glad to extend Mr. Baldanza the same courtesies he is willing to extend to me! See rules are a wonderful thing, and Ben when you live by the sword you in turn die by it. Screw fairness & logic honor your contract! A business relationship is a 2 way street except on Crystal Drive!

Wow! I didn't mean to spark such debate. Your insights are interesting. Thanks. By way of more complete information, you should know that my sister took the "de-boarding" in stride. In fact, I cut off some of her original email about the affair. In its completeness, she wrote:

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">So close, but so far........I got to the airport early, hoping to get on the 1 p.m. flight to Boston. I was on stand-by. I then got on the plane. Was almost seated when they called me back.....an unaccompanied minor was booked on that flight and finally made his way to the gate with the US Air personnel. So, off I went. Good thing I hadn't given them my luggage. So, now I am hanging around the Pitt Int'l Airport. My real flight is at 4:10 p.m. Oh well. Still billing time....and I have work to do...and a good book to read....and I'll go get some lunch......after all, I have 3 hours!!!!</font>

When I emailed her back saying that I thought it was odd since I had never seen/heard of an airline renegging before, she wrote me again, saying:

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">It was the last minute....and it was an unaccompanied minor.....not a problem. I had a nice flight home at 4:10...finally a nice, calm, no bump flight....with nice gentleman next to me in row 12 (an exit row)...we had a nice chat all the way home.....</font>

By way of context, I am sure she had not paid a standby fee (or if she had, it was returned), because she would have mentioned had they tried to stick her for $25. She has flown BOS-PIT a lot recently for work, and I assume she was on a very flexible fare. She has no status with US or any airline, and certainly would not know to ask for comp. She just isn't the passionate traveller that resides at this forum.

On a side note, she claims that PIT (the airport) is the only redeeming quality to the city. Shall that spark another debate?

[This message has been edited by andymo99 (edited 08-16-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by andymo99:

On a side note, she claims that PIT (the airport) is the only redeeming quality to the city. Shall that spark another debate?

[This message has been edited by andymo99 (edited 08-16-2003).]</font>

With that comment I would have yanked her off the airplane too! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mad.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by CPRich:
Good analogy. US gives you 24 hours to cancel a ticket, for a mistake or any other reason. I think giving them 5-10 minutes is fair.

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I love this airline just like the rest of you but allowing airlines to break Dot regulations is not acceptable behivor especally in the light of BBB's "No wavivers No favors policy".Still the question in my mind is why didnt they ask for voulnteers??
There is no reason to get mad at the GA over this I was not implying that at all the kid does get the seat first.CPRich thanks for comparing me to BBB now can i get his salary too because it would seem im his double http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
-howie

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by andymo99:
Anyone seen this before?</font>

Twice in the last few weeks. Once was pulling a non-rev on NW because the paying passengers showed up after the deadline but before the door closed. He didn't mind. (Yes, I know that's a different situation)

The other was on US recently. CLT-RDU was canceled from crew time expiration, after some nasty weather in CLT that screwed up a lot of stuff. The last CLT-GSO of the day was full, and people that had been delayed on their inbound (and missed an earlier CLT-GSO) were waiting for the later one, plus some of the CLT-RDU people. One person told me they were in the mid-30's on the waitlist (she made the flight).

They went into boarding after many delays, and I guess got the passenger count off, because they handed out too many boarding passes and three more people were on the plane than total seats. The GA had to come down and call them off the plane. I have no idea what happened from there, as I was on the plane.

I must say that I didn't know I'd be entitled to compensation in such a situation. However, now that I do, were it to ever happen to me, I'd gladly comply and give up the seat, and then in a friendly tone ask for compensation back at the gate. There's nothing wrong w/ asking for what you're entitled. You should do it in congenial and understanding tone, but there's nothing wrong w/ this. tls

I don't think compensation is due. The contract of carriage covers the itinerary you bought, US has no obligation to fly you on any other flight, even if they have given you a boarding pass for it. Your contract of carriage is for the flights you bought, not what your standing by for.

Note that if you pay the $25 "standby fee" and confirm a seat that changes things since they actually confirm you on the flight your "standing by" for ("standby fee" is really a misnomer in this case basically, really it's a $25 change fee).

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Beckles:
I don't think compensation is due. The contract of carriage covers the itinerary you bought, US has no obligation to fly you on any other flight, even if they have given you a boarding pass for it. Your contract of carriage is for the flights you bought, not what your standing by for.

Note that if you pay the $25 "standby fee" and confirm a seat that changes things since they actually confirm you on the flight your "standing by" for ("standby fee" is really a misnomer in this case basically, really it's a $25 change fee).</font>

Nothing like beating a dead horse ;-) but if the $25 is a change fee (I agree completely BTW) then wouldn't the new itinerary have the same standing as the original? Same as if I called the day before and paid $100 to make that change?

Anyhow it's all somewhat silly -- I'm more than willing to give them this one. All I ask is that BBB be sent out to pasture!