Hawaii - Mauna Kea observatory vs. summit

Is it worth it to drive to the summit of Mauna Kea, or will the observatory be enough? My husband and I have no issues whatsoever with altitude and have often skied at 11,000+ ft. It seems like a lot of trouble to get up there without a tour, since only Harper's allows you on the summit access road.

Are the views really spectacular? Is it possible to see the telescope at the top? All comments pro/con are appreciated.

ETA: I meant visitor's center @ 9000 feet vs. summit.

Is it worth it to drive to the summit of Mauna Kea, or will the observatory be enough? My husband and I have no issues whatsoever with altitude and have often skied at 11,000+ ft. It seems like a lot of trouble to get up there without a tour, since only Harper's allows you on the summit access road.

Are the views really spectacular? Is it possible to see the telescope at the top? All comments pro/con are appreciated.

Wondering the same thing, though I think by observatory you mean visitor center as the observatory is on the summit. The tours available seem ridiculously expensive, around $200 per person, could just rent a helicopter for that price to get us to the top. All I would want/need is a ride from the visitor center to the summit. Renting from Harper's seems like the best option, but they don't open early enough for our early morning flight out of KOA.

If you're not with children or elderly, and you have even a basic fitness level without respiratory problems, I'd suggest renting a 4x4 (even just for one day from your hotel or in-town rental car office) and going to the summit for sunset - it's an incredibly spiritual and beautiful experience. You should have a basic understanding of how to drive a 4x4, when/how to use 4-LO gear to minimize braking and keep speed under control, as well as driving on unpaved roads.

The road to the summit is not that difficult. I recommend picking up a picnic dinner in town (or if you're staying at Waikoloa, get some takeout from the supermarket at the Queen's Shoppes), stopping at the Visitors Center for about 1 hour, then driving up to the summit for sunset. You need 1 1/4 hours from Waikoloa (2-2 1/4 hours from Kona/Keauhou) to the Visitors Center, an hour at the Visitors Center to acclimate, and 30 minutes from the Visitors Center to the summit.

Check official sunset and begin your trip so you'll arrive at the summit at least 45-60 minutes before the sun goes down, so you can hike to Pu’u Weiku for the actual sunset, and you can remain on the summit (the parking area near the telescopes) in the darkness for about 45 mins or so after sunset before the rangers find you and send you back down to the Visitor Center for stargazing.

So what's up at the visitor center.. is it sort of like Haleakala on Maui?

Thanks, bocastephen, for the incredibly detailed information on how best to enjoy the summit experience.

BTW, I know nothing about 4x4s, but my husband and I both drive manual transmission cars at home. Is it fair to assume that we'll be able to figure out the driving? I replaced our reservation of an Alamo Jeep Wrangler with a 7-passenger Expedition or some such monster from Harper's so that we wouldn't be violating the rental contract. (It was 3x the price, but still less than half of what we would be paying for an organized tour).

The Visitors Center is a facility with staff astronomers and UH students who setup rather powerful telescopes and interpret some of the stars and galaxies you can see.

They have restrooms, a small theater with an information short, a gift shop and parking lot. When arriving/departing after dark, it's customary to turn off your headlights and use your parking lights to avoid ruining the night vision of nearby stargazers.

It's also the acclimation point for most people headed up to the summit for sunset, and if you're unsure about the drive up, you can choose from a dozen or so tour vans to follow up for company.

One point I didn't mention in my previous post; sometimes fog or clouds will obscure the stars at the Visitors Center - some of the tour companies have turn-offs on the summit access road where they will stargaze from a higher altitude above any fog or haze that might have remained at the 9K' level.

If you're coming down from the summit and conditions are iffy at the Visitors Center, you might be able to park near a stopped tour van at the higher turnoffs - but be **very** careful. Go slowly, and make sure you can see where the turnoff begins and ends and don't park the tour van in or park on the roadway itself. There are two nicely defined turnoffs they can use - but if you go too fast or don't pay close attention before turning off, you might misjudge your place and go over the side, which would be a very bad thing.

A good idea is to reset your trip odometer when you pass a turnoff on the way up in daylight and note the distance from the turnoff to the summit, so you know exactly where to find it on the way down, and what it looks like (size, location) so you can park safely.

Thanks, bocastephen, for the incredibly detailed information on how best to enjoy the summit experience.

BTW, I know nothing about 4x4s, but my husband and I both drive manual transmission cars at home. Is it fair to assume that we'll be able to figure out the driving? I replaced our reservation of an Alamo Jeep Wrangler with a 7-passenger Expedition or some such monster from Harper's so that we wouldn't be violating the rental contract. (It was 3x the price, but still less than half of what we would be paying for an organized tour).

Which hotel are you staying at? Instead of overpaying for the Expedition (which is just too big), I would make a one-day rental for a 4x4 from National at the Hilton Waikoloa Village. Pick it up in the afternoon on the day of your summit trip (park your actual rental car/Wrangler at the hotel while you're doing the summit), and then return it the following morning and pick up your regular rental car from the hotel lot - or you can ask the National desk if you can drop the car off that same night with the hotel valet (they move the rental cars around for National).

National's 4x4 are Jeep Commanders - very easy to drive. On the way to the Visitors Center, you keep it in 2WD (via the switch on the dash near the gear shift). Before leaving the VC for the summit, move the switch to the 4WD-Hi gear for the trip up. Before leaving the summit for the VC, move the switch to the 4WD-Lo gear for the trip down - and keep the gear shift in 1st or 2nd gear so you don't ride the brakes. The brakes will overheat quickly in the thin high altitude air, so you want to avoid riding them. Drop back to the VC for stargazing and then switch back to 2WD mode for the trip back to the HWV.

If you're staying in/near Kona, you can do a 1-day reservation with any rental company at KOA and park your Wrangler in the airport lot for the night - although the HWV is a much easier way to do it.

Don't tell the rental company you're going to the MK summit - but trust me, the summit will be FULL of rental cars, including cars that have absolutely no business being up there (like convertibles and compact cars).

You need to watch the dash board during your drive up - my Commander was having problems downshifting and maintaining a consistent speed, and eventually the transmission began overheating, so we needed to stop periodically and let it cool off. The road is steep, and there is very little air for the engine to develop its normal power.

If your Wrangler has a 4x4 logo on it and the 4WD shifting system on the dash or near the gear shift, you can cancel your 4x4 rental and just take the Wrangler up there. One piece of side advise for your trip - if you want a convertible, don't get a Wrangler, just rent a regular convertible. The top is a real pain in the butt to put up and down, especially when it's raining, and there is barely enough room for two people and luggage, let alone extra passengers. Having any vehicle with an "open" cargo space becomes a problem on your last day when you've checked out of your hotel and want to spend time in town for shopping or dinner before the airport since all of your bags will be exposed and subject to theft. Always rent with a trunk.

Which hotel are you staying at? Instead of overpaying for the Expedition (which is just too big), I would make a one-day rental for a 4x4 from National at the Hilton Waikoloa Village.

...

Don't tell the rental company you're going to the MK summit - but trust me, the summit will be FULL of rental cars, including cars that have absolutely no business being up there (like convertibles and compact cars).

Again, thanks so much for the detailed instructions on the driving. I'll be honest, my husband and I just don't feel comfortable violating the contract. (As my mom used to say, "Just because everyone else is doing it....") I also didn't willingly choose the Expedition -- it was the cheapest car they had available for the day I made the reservation, and was cheaper than some of the smaller models, which are in higher demand.

FWIW, we're doing the summit on the last full day of our trip. So we're going to head down to KOA to pick up the Expedition at Harper's and drop off our Fusion at Alamo. We'll hold onto the Expedition at the Fairmont Orchid overnight and then drive it back to KOA for our flight the next afternoon. (It's too bad Harper's doesn't have an outpost in Kohala).

You've gotten plenty of good replies already, so these are mostly just minor edits. Thanks for already figuring out what the non-summit place is called. :D

Elevation: Glad to hear you have no problem with elevations of 11,000+ feet. Do you commonly ascend to those elevations from sea level in, say, 2 hours? And how are you at 13,800? Just a little food-for-thought, since this isn't, say, Colorado where you basically have to leave the state to even go below 3,000 feet. :)

Views: From the top you can see, on a good day, Mauna Loa, Hualalai, Kohala and Haleakala on Maui. From "mid-level" (a cinder cone near the Visitor Information Station - across the street and downhill) you can see the first two, plus the saddle region. How spectacular the sunset and things like that are will depend on the weather that day, clouds, etc.

Commercial tours: Expensive, definitely. They've got good guides and save you from driving and give you some food and all that, but as in many areas of life, paying someone to schlep you around costs more than schlepping yourself. ;)

The visitor station doesn't have "staff astronomers" per se, but they do have interpretive guides and plenty of volunteers, some of whom are astronomy majors, and some of whom are observatory staff. Recommended acclimatizing time there is 30+ minutes, and the 60 minutes bocastephen proposed is a good idea.

If you're going on a Saturday or Sunday, the VIS offers guided bring-your-own-4WD summit tours (http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/info/vis/visiting-mauna-kea/summit-tours.html), meeting there at 1:00pm and going up to the Keck Observatory, but also covering geology, culture, and all the other observatories. There are age and physical restrictions, so read that page.

If you're going on a Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday, the Subaru Telescope also has a public tour program (http://www.naoj.org/Information/Tour/Summit/index.html) which you need to reserve online. Again, you'll need a 4WD, and again, there are age and physical restrictions.

If you're going on any weekday, the Keck Observatory has a visitor gallery that's probably open between 10am and 4pm - just walk in. It has bathrooms! Nice ones! Indoors! :)

I work and volunteer on the mountain and am happy to field any other questions.

You've gotten plenty of good replies already, so these are mostly just minor edits. Thanks for already figuring out what the non-summit place is called. :D

Elevation: Glad to hear you have no problem with elevations of 11,000+ feet. Do you commonly ascend to those elevations from sea level in, say, 2 hours? And how are you at 13,800? Just a little food-for-thought, since this isn't, say, Colorado where you basically have to leave the state to even go below 3,000 feet. :)

Decent point on the speed at which we get to 11K feet. My husband and I like to ski at Mammoth and we live on the coast. The ascent from ~2K to 9K feet can take less than 2 hours, but we spend the night at the lodge at 9K before heading up to the 11K summit for skiing :) FWIW, I've hiked the Inca Trail, which has mountain passes of 13K and 14K feet as I recall and didn't have any problems with that, either.

Thanks for all of the info on tours both to and on the mountain. We're going on a Wednesday, so I'll have to check out the Keck and Subaru telescope info.

I work and volunteer on the mountain and am happy to field any other questions.

Awesome, thanks ^

If I recall correctly, you must be able to drive in the dark without headlights (parking lights OK). This includes the road from the summit to somewhere BELOW the visitor's center. The visitor's center also tends to be very dark, which is what you want after sunset - incredable night sky!

If I recall correctly, you must be able to drive in the dark without headlights (parking lights OK). This includes the road from the summit to somewhere BELOW the visitor's center. The visitor's center also tends to be very dark, which is what you want after sunset - incredable night sky!

Definitely not! You'd get killed that way!

Headlights are required - but lowbeams only. The use of highbeams is discouraged (and counterproductive in the fog), but if you need to use highbeams temporarily, that's fine.

Driving along any road in the dark with parking lights only is a sure way to end your trip in disaster.

If I recall correctly, you must be able to drive in the dark without headlights (parking lights OK). This includes the road from the summit to somewhere BELOW the visitor's center.

Luckily for all of us, you don't quite recall correctly - I'd hate to drive all that way with just parking lights, even though I might be "able." ;)

Actual protocol/etiquette is to use parking lights plus 4-way flashers - which gives you a lot better illumination than just parking lights - while traveling at low speeds (under 25mph, and in some cases under 5mph) in certain areas, at certain times where headlights would be a problem. Those areas/times are:

- Required: Summit (above ~13,000 feet, or above the "pass" where there are big hills on both sides - basically, anywhere the optical telescopes on the summit cinder cones might be visible), anytime from a half-hour after sunset until sunrise.

- Polite: Approaching the vicinity of the Visitor Information Station (from where the road comes over the rise and you can see it, to, say, the end of the paved road) anytime from a half-hour after sunset until 10:00pm which is when the stargazing usually ends. This only matters if you are approaching the Station - if you've been there and are leaving, once you pull out of the parking lot and drive about 50 feet, your headlights aren't going to bother anyone who's stargazing, so turn them on in the name of safety. :)

Any other time, or any other place, you can use whatever lights you would normally use. I certainly use high beams if I'm driving up or down at night, switching to low beams if I see a commercial tour van parked somewhere random for stargazing, but going to parking lights + 4-way flashers only in the areas described above.

Hope this is helpful and/or reassuring. :)

....- Required: Summit (above ~13,000 feet, or above the "pass" where there are big hills on both sides - basically, anywhere the optical telescopes on the summit cinder cones might be visible), anytime from a half-hour after sunset until sunrise....

I didn't notice anyone doing this, including the rangers while on the summit road itself. We did use parking lights only while exiting the parking area and the turnout slightly downhill of the parking area - but once on the road itself and facing away from the telescope complex, we turned our lowbeams on as did everyone else.

I can't imagine anyone safely driving down the summit road with just parking lights and flashers - unless you were referring only to the parking lot and roadway complex right around the telescopes.

I can't imagine anyone safely driving down the summit road with just parking lights and flashers - unless you were referring only to the parking lot and roadway complex right around the telescopes.

Pretty much so. If you are below all the summit facilities (including the ones in the "valley") and are pointing downhill, it is perfectly safe to have your headlights on, unless there's a lot of snow coverage that might reflect them back toward the telescopes. Pointing uphill, it's trickier.

The shape of the summit is a little complicated, so there do exist places where you can be driving uphill and not pointing toward any telescopes that will care. The switchback on the way up to UH and Gemini, for example. Or the dirt road from the Submillimeter Array up to Subaru. And there are places you can be driving downhill, yet still pointing toward telescopes that most certainly do care, like the road between UKIRT and Keck.

Given that many FlyerTalkers (and many tourists in general) are unfamiliar with the terrain, the roads and which observatories are where in relation to the roads, it's safer for me to just say "If you're up there more than 30 minutes after sunset and more than 30 minutes before sunrise (which, really, you have absolutely no reason to be), use parking lights+flashers and go slow above 13,000 feet."

It's not too much of an over-generalization, and it saves you from ending up on my list of people I've had to go out and talk to because they 1) drove up at midnight, 2) with their high beams on, and 3) parked with them shining directly into the dome of an observatory on the other side of the summit. ;)

Luckily for all of us, you don't quite recall correctly - I'd hate to drive all that way with just parking lights, even though I might be "able." ;)

Actual protocol/etiquette is ...-

Thanks for the correction, and describing the etiquette for driving near the top. There are signs that do ask you to turn off your headlights; I just didn’t remember any indication when you were able to turn them back on. I hope there was, because I certainly didn’t drive all the way in the dark! (but with my memory, …???)

Which hotel are you staying at? Instead of overpaying for the Expedition (which is just too big), I would make a one-day rental for a 4x4 from National at the Hilton Waikoloa Village. Pick it up in the afternoon on the day of your summit trip (park your actual rental car/Wrangler at the hotel while you're doing the summit), and then return it the following morning and pick up your regular rental car from the hotel lot - or you can ask the National desk if you can drop the car off that same night with the hotel valet (they move the rental cars around for National).

National's 4x4 are Jeep Commanders - very easy to drive. On the way to the Visitors Center, you keep it in 2WD (via the switch on the dash near the gear shift). Before leaving the VC for the summit, move the switch to the 4WD-Hi gear for the trip up. Before leaving the summit for the VC, move the switch to the 4WD-Lo gear for the trip down - and keep the gear shift in 1st or 2nd gear so you don't ride the brakes. The brakes will overheat quickly in the thin high altitude air, so you want to avoid riding them. Drop back to the VC for stargazing and then switch back to 2WD mode for the trip back to the HWV.

If you're staying in/near Kona, you can do a 1-day reservation with any rental company at KOA and park your Wrangler in the airport lot for the night - although the HWV is a much easier way to do it.

Don't tell the rental company you're going to the MK summit - but trust me, the summit will be FULL of rental cars, including cars that have absolutely no business being up there (like convertibles and compact cars).

You need to watch the dash board during your drive up - my Commander was having problems downshifting and maintaining a consistent speed, and eventually the transmission began overheating, so we needed to stop periodically and let it cool off. The road is steep, and there is very little air for the engine to develop its normal power.

If your Wrangler has a 4x4 logo on it and the 4WD shifting system on the dash or near the gear shift, you can cancel your 4x4 rental and just take the Wrangler up there. One piece of side advise for your trip - if you want a convertible, don't get a Wrangler, just rent a regular convertible. The top is a real pain in the butt to put up and down, especially when it's raining, and there is barely enough room for two people and luggage, let alone extra passengers. Having any vehicle with an "open" cargo space becomes a problem on your last day when you've checked out of your hotel and want to spend time in town for shopping or dinner before the airport since all of your bags will be exposed and subject to theft. Always rent with a trunk.

Thanks Bocastephen for the info.. Though we've been to Big Island a number of times now, we are excited to visit the center.. we also haven't visited another science center in Hilo.. so will definitely be hitting that up later on the month.

So there are tours setup from the visitor center to go up to the summit, or is it all third party pre-arranged.. We won't be going up with two small kids, but was just wondering.

Thanks Bocastephen for the info.. Though we've been to Big Island a number of times now, we are excited to visit the center.. we also haven't visited another science center in Hilo.. so will definitely be hitting that up later on the month.

That'd be 'Imiloa (http://www.imiloahawaii.org), right?

So there are tours setup from the visitor center to go up to the summit, or is it all third party pre-arranged.. We won't be going up with two small kids, but was just wondering.

The commercial tours go from sea level (Kona, Waikoloa, or Hilo) usually to the summit, with a stop at the VIS, and you'd need to make a reservation, I think. The free bring-your-own 4WD tours on weekends (http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/info/vis/visiting-mauna-kea/summit-tours.html) go from the VIS to the summit, and you can just show up. Neither type of tour will take small (<16yo) kids, and the free ones, at least, have other health and safety requirements.

I assume this is obvious: the summit is COLD!

I assume this is obvious: the summit is COLD!

Most "cold" is relative. Right now, it's 23c (73f) indoors and -2.2c (28f) outdoors where I am (on the summit). I've never really seen it get much below -6c (21f) outdoors... though of course that's not factoring in wind chill, and the night I'm remembering had winds of 20m/sec (45mph).

But those are temperatures that one can get used to. In another building down the road, on the other hand, there's a scientific instrument that's cooled with liquid helium and compressors to a temperature that's less than 0.1 Kelvin (-273.05c or -459.49f). That's a more "absolute" kind of cold. :)

Thanks, bocastephen, for the incredibly detailed information on how best to enjoy the summit experience.

BTW, I know nothing about 4x4s, but my husband and I both drive manual transmission cars at home. Is it fair to assume that we'll be able to figure out the driving? I replaced our reservation of an Alamo Jeep Wrangler with a 7-passenger Expedition or some such monster from Harper's so that we wouldn't be violating the rental contract. (It was 3x the price, but still less than half of what we would be paying for an organized tour).

I'm in a similar situation. I've never driven a 4WD but am ok on stick shifts. Do you think we will be fine?

I'm a little wary of driving up to the summit on my own. I'd really like to go all the way to the top, especially after bocastephen's endorsement, but between a tour for $200/person or me driving, I think I might have to stay content at the visitor's center.

I assume this is obvious: the summit is COLD!

Yeah, that's the first thing I thought when I read bocastephen suggest the OP "arrive at the summit at least 45-60 minutes before the sun goes down." That seems like a bit much unless you are really comfortable hanging out in a low oxygen environment in freezing temperatures. I thought 20 or 30 minutes before sunset was more than enough time to take a good look around enjoy the views. But that's just me...although my wife who is not a fan of the cold was barely out of the van for 5 minutes before she was ready to head back down. lol That said, we both really enjoyed the Hawaii Forest & Trail Summit & Stars tour. (http://www.hawaii-forest.com/index.php/tours/hawaii_observatory_tour_mauna_kea_stars_adventure) The star gazing party was quite a thrill...the last time I saw so many stars I was in the planetarium.

Yeah, that's the first thing I thought when I read bocastephen suggest the OP "arrive at the summit at least 45-60 minutes before the sun goes down." That seems like a bit much unless you are really comfortable hanging out in a low oxygen environment in freezing temperatures. I thought 20 or 30 minutes before sunset was more than enough time to take a good look around enjoy the views. But that's just me...although my wife who is not a fan of the cold was barely out of the van for 5 minutes before she was ready to head back down. lol That said, we both really enjoyed the Hawaii Forest & Trail Summit & Stars tour. (http://www.hawaii-forest.com/index.php/tours/hawaii_observatory_tour_mauna_kea_stars_adventure) The star gazing party was quite a thrill...the last time I saw so many stars I was in the planetarium.

My recommendation was based on getting there with plenty of time to find parking and then hike to your choice of spot for sunset so you're not rushed on the drive up - nothing to do with cold. I was there a couple weeks ago and found the temperatures chilly but comfortable and in no way required the Antarctic-explorer style gear they dress people up in on the tours.

While munching on our Spam Musubis for dinner, we watched an entire busload of Japanese tourists get suited up for what looked like a spacelaunch to the Moon complete with a crater hike...it was wild overkill.

Long pants, closed-top shoes and a warm jacket that is long enough to cover your behind is more than sufficient - if you have a little extra packing space, toss in a wool cap or even a baseball cap to cover your head in case the winds start whipping up.

I'm in a similar situation. I've never driven a 4WD but am ok on stick shifts. Do you think we will be fine?

They drive very much like 2WDs, except that when you want to use 4WD, you stop, put the vehicle in neutral, and push a button, turn a dial, or move a lever, then make sure the 4WD indicator on the dashboard is on. Not quite rocket science. ;)

I'm a little wary of driving up to the summit on my own. I'd really like to go all the way to the top, especially after bocastephen's endorsement, but between a tour for $200/person or me driving, I think I might have to stay content at the visitor's center.

See your other thread, and your inbox.