US Airways Dividend Miles (Pre-FlightFund Merger) - I found the sky marshalls this morning

Played "spot the sky marshall' and won.

Took the 6AM shuttle this morning from LGA-BOS.

Two men in suits approached the agent prior to boarding and were let on the plane.

I was lucky enough to snag seat 1C and was sitting by the door when boarding started. I was the first one to board and noticed the two marshalls in their seats. One was in 2C and one in 6C.

Only 28 people on this flight. The FA told the pilot "28 and 2" I assume this was referring to the marshalls.

After landing in BOS, the marshalls went to another gate to catch another flight as everyone else headed towards the baggage claim.

Glad to hear that they are there. But what is your point? Instead, next time try playing "spot and disable the terrorist." That's a report I want to read about.

rd...

I'm still amazed that ( a very few) of our most elite flyers continue to post such information on a public website. Perhaps you have little concern for your own personal safety, but the vast majority of my passengers and crew DO and playing "spot the marshall" on a public forum lends itself to an unacceptable level of risk.

As for what you heard the FA state: when giving a passenger count, the number of ticketed passengers is stated first, followed by a count of "unticketed" passengers, such as infants or jumpseat riders.

I can assure you that the flight crews (and marshalls!) that staff your flight take every measure to ensure your safety. As a FF, you are privy to many procedures and policies that the casual passenger is not. Best to keep such information to yourself.

RD,

I agree with USSky: what precisely is your point in speaking so specifically about the Sky Marshalls?

We all know they are out there somewhere (as are the bad guys). I can't conceive of any reason to see this as a game of "Where's Waldo?"

Please consider the "big picture" and be a little more discreet. Air security is serious stuff and not a matter whim or folly.

Barry

It comforts me to know they are there, but would make me unconfortable if I were one of them to know such specific information was being disseminated. Please edit your post so we don't get more of this type of information posted here.

You folks need to chill; its not like those guys will be sitting in the exact same seat next time. I personally don't even mind the discussions on HOW to spot a sky marshall, but in this case, he just mentions that he saw two sky marshalls in two seats. How is that a security breach? It's in the past, the plane landed safely, and blah blah.

How about this, I was selected for double screening (S- my name and SSSS on my boarding pass) and they didn't do it. Again in the past, my plane was fine, and we're moving on...

The only thing I can see is this really isn't a USAirways issue -- it's more appropriate for TravelBuzz, IMHO. Let the moderation begin!

Specific information?

It's not like i gave a detailed physical description of the two marshals. Just simply that they were on my flight.

I think they should blend in to the crowd at the gate and board with everyone else. That way it would be almost impossible to spot them.

Oh, please.

The air marshals are usually pathetically easy to spot, regardless if one is the first person on or not.

They still haven't learned to dress/act inconspicuously and their weapons are easy to spot.

Until they are 1)disarmed and 2)unable to poach anyone's seat, I would prefer they remained at the gate.

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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

You wouldn't think so with the way the clowns at the TSA handle it. Air security is a joke. Too bad it's not a joking matter.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by jerseyfinn:
Air security is serious stuff and not a matter whim or folly.

Barry</font>



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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

I think there is a tendency here to take things far overboard on matters regarding security... rd was just pointing out some interesting stuff that any of us could've noticed. If you are opposed to the posting of it because it is a breach in security, then please also post how you think his post could possibly cause any problems with security.

Seems to me there's no info here that's anything but elementary for the bad guys...I think pointing out the "obviousness" of these guys (sky marshalls) is probably a constructive criticism, far from a breach of security. It would be good for them to blend in a bit better. Hopefully some already do.

Yipee! Rd spotted the air marshalls. Oh this is NEWS! Not only is the post in poor taste, but how can you not spot the air marshalls?

I think it behooves us as US Citizens and frequent fliers not to discuss flight security procedures that are not made public

Since most are in agreement that this is a topic that should not be discussed, why is the discussion continuing, keeping it at the top of the board and more obvious to everyone? why dont we cease discussions and close the topic? Sorry it just seems like a merry-go-roud discussion http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Yes, let's just quash all discussion about this hush-hush, on the QT program, shall we?

Things aren't already extremely un-American at the airport, why not add the 1st Amendment to the crosshairs?

If you think this discussion actually could aid terrorists, you definitely don't understand the word "secret". 1 person can keep a secret. 100 people cannot keep a secret. It's not going to happen. And FlyerTalk is hardly encompassing all travelers. If a couple of FlyerTalkers know about something by making a public observation of that something, the proverbial cat has almost certainly been out of the bag for days/weeks/months.

I'm not just saying this because I hate the air marshal program. I do think it's an extremely wasteful program that exists primarily to enforce stupid no-pee rules and causes more harm than good by introducing weapons onto the plane. However, there's no way that these casual observations and postings are anything new that the terrorists haven't known about pretty much from day 1.

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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Spiff:
Yes, let's just quash all discussion about this hush-hush, on the QT program, shall we?

Things aren't already extremely un-American at the airport, why not add the 1st Amendment to the crosshairs?

If you think this discussion actually could aid terrorists, you definitely don't understand the word "secret". 1 person can keep a secret. 100 people cannot keep a secret. It's not going to happen. And FlyerTalk is hardly encompassing all travelers. If a couple of FlyerTalkers know about something by making a public observation of that something, the proverbial cat has almost certainly been out of the bag for days/weeks/months.

I'm not just saying this because I hate the air marshal program. I do think it's an extremely wasteful program that exists primarily to enforce stupid no-pee rules and causes more harm than good by introducing weapons onto the plane. However, there's no way that these casual observations and postings are anything new that the terrorists haven't known about pretty much from day 1.

</font>

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif

Some of the replies here remind me of the scoldings handed out by many FlyerTalkers to those who replied to anyone asking for information about flights or airports or security in the several months following September 11, 2001. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

If frequent flyers can spot the sky marshals, you can be sure the terrorists can as well. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I agree this isn't a breach of security. We can all spot them, maybe it's their outdated clothes, and the fact that they keep their suit jackets on the whole flight is what gives it away. Who really cares, some people are just going way to overboard on this. Nothing posted on here was classified information, just general obersavations.

Not only should this information be discussed, but discussed regularly.

Security thru obscurity does not work. Further, as has been pointed out, it's not exactly hard to find these guys.

To suggest that anyone's security is improved by attempting to strangle discussion about the Sky Marshall program is not only innacurate, but somewhat silly.

I also find it personally disgusting that discussion, movement, and anything else related to an airplane seems to be regulated or otherwise stopped in the name of "security." There have been two, and only two meaningful security measures put in place since 9/11: armored cockpit doors and the Sky Marshalls. Everything else is bunk.


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Saving the world, one clue at a time.

Id have to agree that the armored doors and the marshals are the two good security measures that have been put into place. The, sometimes grossly long lines at security have become a bit overboard. A relative that lives in Providence, RI told me this mornign that half of the flights that left the city left without 1/3 of their passengers because they were all stuck in security lines. I do think that it is important, but i also think that some cities need to find a way to get it done and get people on the plane without having to get to the airport even more than 2 hours before for a domestic flight

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by JLM_USAIR:
Id have to agree that the armored doors and the marshals are the two good security measures that have been put into place. The, sometimes grossly long lines at security have become a bit overboard. A relative that lives in Providence, RI told me this mornign that half of the flights that left the city left without 1/3 of their passengers because they were all stuck in security lines. I do think that it is important, but i also think that some cities need to find a way to get it done and get people on the plane without having to get to the airport even more than 2 hours before for a domestic flight</font>

It doesn't help the lines when the Unionized Federal TSA screeners are taking sick outs and slowing the process intentionally to make a point about the upcoming layoffs. The whole fiasco in Seattle a few weeks back magically straightened itself out after they hired a few more people back.
There is a famous phrase in these parts..."Good enough for Gov't work."

I don't know about the rest of you, but I spotted the marshalls on one of my flights a while ago, had them pegged before wheels up.

USSky, if you are an onboard employee, maybe you need to speak with your associates in the air, who greet these guys like long lost friends. They know everyone on the plane by name, and (from what I observed) spend a lot of time chatting in the galley.

If you want to be "undercover" you don't stick out like a sore thumb. You don't blow your cover. You blend in.

Did anyone else on the flight notice them? Maybe not. But quashing discussion in this forum is absurd. Airline related, yes. US Airlines related, maybe, maybe not. But it was on a US flight.

Try making suggestions to uniformed services, and risk another round of inspections, or a shrug of the shoulders. This is the place for discussion.

Obviously a very board traveler.

As in flat?? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/confused.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by WebTraveler:
Obviously a very board traveler. </font>



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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

I think TSA is already saying that it might be more useful having more of these people in the terminals, rather than in the air. I am in agreement that it probably isn't helpful to disclose how you see them, but this is an open forum. In my case, twice since the program began, I have had my seat changed at the departure gate , and both times, the agent told me it was for "security reasons". Now that was clever. As for the screeners, the other day I heard two of them discussing benefits with another airport worker, who had asked them about retirement. It seems as though 9/11 created a lot of changes, including whole new careers.

PS to the above post. On one of the two occasions, a very early PHL-PBI flight, I observed the gentleman in my original seat sleeping most of the way.

You know how they have mystery shoppers to check up on stores.. I'd love to be a mystery flyer, checking up on these agents who may be literally sleeping on the job...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by umguy:
I agree this isn't a breach of security. We can all spot them, maybe it's their outdated clothes, and the fact that they keep their suit jackets on the whole flight is what gives it away. Who really cares, some people are just going way to overboard on this. Nothing posted on here was classified information, just general obersavations. </font>

I prefer my method -- the only people that flash a badge and walk around the TSA screeners with baggage and without stopping. Like that doesn't make them stand out?

Anyone feel that in a way, this thread is inappropriate? We aren't supposed to know who the sky marshalls are. If you can find them, great! but there are some of us who don't know nor do they care how you do it!

The thread is fine, what bothers me is the "new" security procedures are mainly for show and does little to protect the public.

Would you people PLEASE quit your whining?

Since we can easily find the **** marshalls, the program is total waste of taxpayers' time and money. The terrorists are as good as or better than us at spotting the marshalls, believe me. I have seen them as well, and they are not hard to spot.

Maybe they should use the money to solve the health insurance problem in this country.

Security through obscurity is no security at all. Just look at what a good job Microsux does with that philosophy.

Terrorists will never be able to leverage control of a plane again, since the people on board will no longer be complacent participants in a hijacking.

And, lest we forget, every plane was compromised with box cutters. Not explosives or guns, but box cutters. 2 hijackers could probably disarm the marshall, but certainly would get no farther before everyone on the plane would jump them.

My point is that with or without marshalls, planes will no longer be hijacked or used as missiles due to the passengers' reactions.

Now, obviously, this this is not to say we shouldn't screen for weapons at security checkpoints, as bringing a bomb or gun onboard would still cause major problems.

Make security accurate and relatively quick, and there will be no more problems (or marshalls), and people will be happy to fly.

[This message has been edited by nawlinsdoc (edited 07-11-2003).]

Only 28 people on this flight. The FA told the pilot "28 and 2" I assume this was referring to the marshalls.

The "28 and 2" could be referring to 28 people and 2 lap children or 28 people and 2 jumpseaters who were lucky enough to find seats in the cabin. It has to do with tickets collected but we like to know about the number of infants onboard too.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by nawlinsdoc:
Would you people PLEASE quit your whining?

Since we can easily find the **** marshalls, the program is total waste of taxpayers' time and money. The terrorists are as good as or better than us at spotting the marshalls, believe me. I have seen them as well, and they are not hard to spot.

Maybe they should use the money to solve the health insurance problem in this country.</font>

Now who is the one whining?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by WebTraveler:
Now who is the one whining?</font>

Yeah, yeah. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Dea Certe, Nice to see that you visited from the wilderness, er, usaviation.

Ira,

I've been a long time "lurker". I like to know what my customers like and want so I can do my job better. It's been a great learning experience. I wish our management would take a little time to read FlyerTalk. Or better yet, have to fly in the center seat of a full flight to MCO. On Friday night. Every week. (I know, I'm evil) It would really help them understand the life of the Road Warrior a bit and maybe, just maybe show some compassion.

This business isn't all about "bean counting", it's about meeting the needs of real, live humans too. I'm probably naive but I believe there's got to be a way to fit comfort and safety into profits. And not pillage the employees in the bargin.

Looking forward to seeing you out there! I do love my cockroaches!

Dea

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Spiff:
As in flat?? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/confused.gif</font>

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif