US Airways Dividend Miles (Pre-FlightFund Merger) - PHL/DUB Emergency Landing in Halifax

Left PHL 8:05pm Friday 5/23. We lost the right engine and made an emergency landing in Halifax a few hours later. Food service was terminated after the appitizers. We had to wait on the plane for two hours for an Air Canada rep to show. Then another five hours in the beautiful Halifax Airport. A plane was flown in from PIT to take us to DUB. No food or drink since they didn't have time to load catering. So the only food we had was partial appitizers. We eventually arrived in DUB seven hours late.
On the return yesterday 5/28 I inquired about an upgrade for my 83 year old mother because of the scare she went through. Although there were ten seats available in Envoy the gate agent said no way. The FA's told my mother and sister to work out seat assignments with other passengers if they wanted to sit together, it wasn't their job they said..
I think US Airways missed an oppurtunity to show soom class to an elderly woman who expierenced a very traumatic flight on what was probably her last trip to Ireland.
I must praise the flight crew for handling the emergency with great professionalism and a great single engine landing in Halifax.

The gate agents in Ireland are contract employees. They also have some pretty strict rules for documenting how passengers get upgraded. While an emergency landing is nothing to take lightly, I'm not sure that everyone who experienced it should be comped an upgrade. JMHO.

I agree. When I was in my 20s I always expected "things" like that from service industries and retail stores, and was frequently disappointed and left angry. Now I'm much more laid back. I don't expect those things and I'm not as demanding. I'm disappointed less and left angry less. I suppose it depends how you look at this situation, but the passengers on that flight landed safely during an unforeseen engine failure and continued on their journey. It could have turned out differently.

Interesting.

I was on the flight both days that he was, and true envoy was quite empty. The employees are servisair and not USAIRWAYS employees (except for 2). I thought they were very professional, and even let me have club access despite the fact that they don't clear any upgrades until you get to the gate.

The flight had 260 people or so, and free upgrades really wouldn't be that realistic with a 23 person envoy cabin.

Good lobster take-out in Halifax:

May 28, 2003

And the Survey Says…Halifax International Airport is Number One

Halifax International Airport (HIA) has rated number one in the world in the Service Delivery category of airports servicing 15 million passengers or less. The International Air Transport Association (IATA) Global Airport Monitor reported that, “ Halifax is seen to provide excellent personal service and is Top for Courtesy and Helpfulness of Airport Staff.” IATA released the 2002 results in May 2003.

In June, Airport World, a publication of the Airports Council International will present the authority with an excellence award for Runner Up Best Airport in North America under 15 million, based on the IATA survey results.

HIA rated in the top ten on seven of the ten categories on which it was judged. Service Delivery was the highest ranking at number one, while comfortable gate areas and parking were given fifth place and the airport was ranked eighth place for overall satisfaction. The ratings for overall satisfaction are strongly influenced by ambience and are expected to increase with the completion of the renovations.

IATA has been measuring passenger satisfaction levels at airports around the world for the last 10 years. Halifax joined the survey process in March 2002.

Nova,
Since you mention appetizers, I infer from your post that you were flying Envoy Class. If so, you could have done the admirable thing as a son and given your Mother your seat, n'est-ce pas?

JBP

JanePond,
Yes of course I offered to switch seats with my mother both ways but she did not want to sit by herself. Sorry I brought this subject up. Not much compassion here.

I am glad you brought this up. I am astonished that you only lost 7 hours (you got to Ireland by about 2 pm, rather than 6 am, right). I would have thought you would have lost at least a day. In addition, Halifax is a great, little airport (I have been stranded there, too). No PIT, but better than LGA in every way. And they would all stink at midnight (ever do a red-eye to PIT and then have to wait to get to PHL). Your mother didn't seem to experience too much distress, since you didn't mention anything about a specific problem, which is very good.

The unsettling thing about your note was the Gate Agents (not the FA's, right) not being willing to arrange seating for your mother and sister. While I would normally arrange seats before leaving for the airport, it is unsettling to think that I could be separated from my youngsters and no one would help resolve it at the gate.

I hope you had a nice time in Ireland.

Nova,

I sympthasize with your case; if often travelled in Y with older relatives, and it's no picnic for them. But I guess it's a matter of where do you draw the line--if your mom got the upgrade, why shouldn't 200+ other people (some of whom may have been Preferred). And how would it make a full fare passenger feel who paid a whole lot of $$ for the same seat your mom got for free.

Did you consider burning 30K miles to upgrade her on the return? Was she on an eligible fare?

[This message has been edited by Babu (edited 05-29-2003).]

nehopper,
We were to land at around 8am but got in around 3pm. The area that we were in at Halifax was depressing and under construction. Yes thankfully we did have a nice time in the Dalky/Killiney area. The warm nature of the Irish helped us forget about the incoming flight. The travel arrangements were last minute and yes I should have called ahead in Dublin to get seats together. The agent at the check-in desk said that they were oversold and could not assign seats. She suggested that we have the FA help make arrangements once onboard but they were told to solve there own problem.
There were other problems with the trip which affects elderly and handicapped people such as the walk from Terminal A to Terminla B/C in PHL because the check-in x-ray machines were not working in A and the lack of assistance in DUB to get the same people down to the lower departue gates. When you travel with an elderly person you really get to see how poorly airports and airlines handle motion-challenged people. Someday it will be us.

Babu,
I think that they should have comped everyone with something when we finally landed in DUB. I don't want to go into detail but they wanted 160,000 miles which I don't have. But the main point is empathy. Maybe because it is my elderly, motion-challenged mother but I thought that people would understand if she was upgraded. Guess not.

[This message has been edited by Nova (edited 05-29-2003).]

The flight left with empty seats in Envoy. So presumably all qualifying preferred members who were interested in an upgrade had been taken care of.

I don't think it unreasonable for US to have then comped people, "for cause" so to speak, into those empty seats. It's a small gesture that would have earned a lot more goodwill than it could possibly have cost them. They have a limited number of opportunities to earn that good will and an upgrade invested in such a way would go a long ways.

The seat shuffle thing happens a lot on full flights. What you describe sounds like standard procedure -- the ticket counter/gate can't do anything and suggests that the FA will. But the FAs have their hands full and leave it up to the customers to figure out. Which they generally do. But it does tend to stress out the infrequent traveler who then remembers only that the airline wouldn't help...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Nova:
JanePond,
Yes of course I offered to switch seats with my mother both ways but she did not want to sit by herself. Sorry I brought this subject up. Not much compassion here.</font>

Unlike many who come on FT and whine about mistreatment with "someone must pay" attitudes, your case actually is one where US should be doing something for you.

Be sure to write their consumer services department (and cc appropriate exec names), and tell your story of 7 hours and no food. If it's truly not US Air policy that its contract-agents in DUB treat passengers exactly as US agents would, then let the company know that's not acceptable.

You'll probably get some miles and maybe even a voucher. But more importantly, they may not know at HQ just how poorly the Servisair people in DUB are representing them. It is important to make sure that they do.

&gt;"When you travel with an elderly person you really get to see how poorly airports and airlines handle motion-challenged people. Someday it will be us."

It's me already, and tomorrow I head to Dublin. One thing that has happened already is that the trek to the new terminal is so long, there are fewer carts in B&C to help those of us who need a lift. I have planned to be met by a wheelchair on return.

I didn't mean to cause hurt feelings. I figured with all that room the FA's in Envoy would dote on your mother and be really nice and comforting to her. How was Dublin?

Jane (as they say "All things considered, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play")

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TomBascom:
The flight left with empty seats in Envoy. So presumably all qualifying preferred members who were interested in an upgrade had been taken care of.

I don't think it unreasonable for US to have then comped people, "for cause" so to speak, into those empty seats. It's a small gesture that would have earned a lot more goodwill than it could possibly have cost them. They have a limited number of opportunities to earn that good will and an upgrade invested in such a way would go a long ways.

</font>

I'm inclined to agree here. Seems like a reasonable request by a CP who asks for a companion of his to be comp upgraded.

I've definitely received many op-upgrades "for cause".

Furthermore I think it's ridiculous to downplay what [b]Nova's[b] mother went through here. I'd be terrified if I heard loud noises and was on a plane going into an emergency landing (with 250K miles a year!). I can't imagine how my grandmother or any infrequent traveller for that matter would react.

TomBascom, martin33, JanePond, kv99,
Thank you for for your comments and understanding. The "for cause" or as some airlines refer to as helping a "distressed passenger" concept is exactly what I was thinking about. And yes I think that US Airways missed an oppurtunity to show good will. I will write to consumer services for the sole purpose of improving their service especially to the elderly. I really don't care about compensation just some response that shows that they will take some action. Any ideas on who to cc?

JanePond,
No hard feelings here. It was a complicated issue and I didn't explain the all of the details of the situation very well. Dublin was great. If you get a chance do a Wicklow tour to get an idea of the Irish countryside.

I'd never want to suggest the treatment you (and mom) got was acceptable, but it's fairly inevitable with the contract employee stations in Europe.

True or not, I have had such employees respond to some of my requests with 'I might get fired if I do that'.

I have no clue what they are told in training, but these people do everything by the book (right or wrong).

All that said, you should definitely write a letter on your and mom's behalf. You'll get only a $150 voucher probably.

Nova,
I'm sorry you had such a negative experience on your trip. I'm also thankful that your emergency wasn't more serious and that you were able to walk away from it unscathed. Just wanted to add my 2 cents worth on your seating problems. Boarding is probably the most hectic time of the flight for the f/a's, and every boarding includes several people inquiring about a seat change for various reasons. I can also tell you that most f/a's will tell you to ask the passengers sitting around you to change seats before they intervene and try to relocate people; not because they're lazy, or because it isn't their job, but because passengers are MUCH more likely to change if they're asked by one of their peers than by a crew member. I once asked a man to change seats with a woman travelling with a small child, and he agreed to do the change and then proceeded to follow me to the galley and rip me up one side and down the other saying that he basically had no choice but to move because he had felt like I had put him on the spot. When someone asks that is holding a small child, or standing next to someone elderly, they're much more likely to be empathetic than if someone in uniform approaches them with the same request. I've seen it happen several times, and from past experience passengers requesting (vs. crew member requesting) has a much higher percentage rate of successful changes. I will also tell people that if they don't have any success to ask us once again and we will try to work something out for them. One other thing to consider...some people are hooked on aisle/window seats and not very happy to give them up on such a long flight. You have to have something good to bargain with, it's not very easy to get someone to trade an aisle for a center seat in the center section. I don't know what seats you all originally had, but again, this is just my 2 pennies worth of info. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
I can't help you too much with your upgrade dilemma, that is pretty much the agent's discretion. When f/a's grant upgrades (in extreme conditions) that usually causes a major domino factor and you end up with "if you upgraded them, why can't I upgrade too" so we usually leave that to the ground folks.
Again, I'm sorry you feel like you were given the short end of the stick on this deal, but I hope you had a nice vacation and returned home safely.

Hmm. If that plane arrived to DUB around 2PM on Saturday the 24th, it means that it was the same bird that was holding short for departure on rwy 28 when I landed to DUB around 5.30 PM that particular day.

It's a small world.

&gt;"..the lack of assistance in DUB to get the same people down to the lower departure gates."

Just back from DUB and was definitely not happy when both arriving and departing, was told that no one had the key to the lift and I had to negotiate the steps. I did it, but it would have been easier if there had been some help to open the lift. There were no options if someone was really wheelchair dependent. I shall report this. OTH, DUB is a small airport and the distances were not too long. Our flight today was delayed and we were given Euro certificates worth atoubt $11 to have some food on the airline. (Someone mentioned compensation, earlier.) Also, although the whole thing was screwed up, I did request a wheelchair to negotiate the return through PHL. That was money (generous tip) well spent. I didn't need one leaving, could manage with a cart. We also cleared immigration on departing DUB, which surprised me. Food was good too; each drink was one bottle only. Also, curtains are down and the FC service no longer has the salad course and dessert was a small tart, grapes, and cheese on a plate, not served individually. Was fine, IMHO.

Jane in PHL

JanePond That is what I found in DUB also. The downstairs pre-immigration thing is great but it would be a simple task to have a US Airways rep (contracted or not) at the top of the stairs to not only help the eldrly and/or handicapped passenger to the elevator but also to help anyone explain the pre-immigration process and direct them to the downstairs area. As it is now it is confusing. I ended up helping people who were wandering around the upper level find there gate on the lower level. To add to the confusion the flight information displays were showing the wrong gate number. Hope you had a good time in Dublin.
Nova

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by JanePond:
&gt;"..We also cleared immigration on departing DUB, which surprised me
Jane in PHL </font>

You clear immigration before departure at Ireland, Canada, Bahamas and Bermuda.

I know you clear customs in Canada (which is why you can fly from canada to airports like LGA and DCA, with no immigration/customs facilities). Do you clear customs in Ireland as well, or the US?

&gt;"Do you clear customs in Ireland as well, or the US?"

Just immigration. Customs was pretty loose last night, except for asking about meat and sausages.

Jane (ate in 2 terrific restaurants in DUB if anyone wants a recommendation, email me)

US Immigration clearance at Dublin airport and Shannon airport has been around for the past 5 years. Its a great time saving measure... since all you have to do upon your arrival in the US is clear customs.

As regards getting upgrades out of Dublin or Shannon... I should mention that you are wasting your time expecting an upgrade from these contract check-in employees since they do things strictly by the book. Your best bet, assuming you think you have a reasonable case for an upgrade, it to nab one of the ladies in the USAir uniform that roam around the check-in area or USAir ticket/reservation desk. These ladies are your only hope for an upgrade... even then your chances may be slim!

Yes Dublin airport is a nice tidy airport... with US immigration clearance available it most definately makes for an excellent connection airport for US - Europe flights. Any folks on the board tried using it to connect to other flights yet??

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by FlyingFinn:
Hmm. If that plane arrived to DUB around 2PM on Saturday the 24th, it means that it was the same bird that was holding short for departure on rwy 28 when I landed to DUB around 5.30 PM that particular day.

It's a small world.

</font>

btw, this makes 2 major problems for US Airways on PHL-DUB within a two-week period. My colleague who arrived DUB June 4th
had an even worse trip than the unscheduled stop in Halifax which started this thread.

His PHL-DUB flight got halfway across the atlantic, then had to turn around and return to PHL! They sat on the tarmac in PHL [no deplaning allowed] for several hours getting repairs and then took off again for DUB.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by martin33:
... btw, this makes 2 major problems for US Airways on PHL-DUB within a two-week period. </font>


It's not uncommon. My folks were on a DL flight recently where the autopilot failed on the way to CDG and they skipped the Atlantic somewhere over Greenland and stopped for about thee hours in JFK before moving on to CDG a day later. What did they get? Bottled water.

Just recieved a response to my letter to the Office of Consumer Affairs. The purpose of my letter was to help improve their service to all passengers whether disabled, not disabled or somewhere in between. According to Ms. Hayden (OCA) they did everything right and it was my failure to let them know ahead of time that my mother would need assistance that caused all the problems. Instead of trying to fix the problems they sent three $200 vouchers one each for myself, my sister and my mother. I really would prefer that they make an effort to improve the weaknesses in service that I pointed out rather than getting paid off. Very frustrating.
I did not expect that my mother would need assistance since she can walk on flat surfaces fine and only has trouble with steps. I parked in PHL Parking lot A on the crossover level so there would be a short walk to A Terminal checkin using an elevator at most to get to the lower floor. Since the checked luggage x-ray machines were not working everyone had to find there own way to B/C and the elevator was broken, no escalator either just steps. I noticed a lot of people in airport wheel chairs in Terminal A who were just stranded even though there were at least two sation personel present with no idea of what to do. The response to this problem was "A review of your mother's reservation record reveals that we were not notified in advance of any additional assistance needs she may have. Had we recieved this notification, our station personel would have been notified in advance of her assistance needs." In other words even though my mother could walk without assistance I should have assumed that there would be long detours, out of service x-ray machines, and broken elevators and should have therefore notified them in advance that we would need additional assistance. What was I thinking?

The second thing that I mentioned was the seven hour ordeal in Halifax. I suggested that since there was no food on the PHL/Halifax leg and the replacement plane was known to be uncatered they should have offerd food vouchers in Halifax. No response to that from OCA.

The next thing I talked about was the lack of help, service, food for ANY of the passengers disabled or not upon our very late arrival in Dublin. The response:" I have contacted the Station Manager in Dublin to inquire as to why there were no US Airways personnel available to meet Flight 306 upon its delayed arrival. He has informed me that there were two Servisair agents available, a vendor whom we contract with, as well as one US Airways agent. He has interviewed the staff on duty that evening and none of the aforementioned individuals recalls being asked for mobility assistance." I never said that we needed mobility assistance I said "It would have been a nice gesture on the part of US Airways to greet people on a flight people endured an emergency landing and with a 7 hour delay, if not with compensation at least with assistance. It was an oppurtunity lost for US Airways to show good will." Whatever.

The last thing that I mentioned was the lack of access to the elevator to the lower level departure gate. The response was "As previously mentioned, had we been notified in advance of your mother's assistance needs, our personnel would have been aware of this at the time you checked in at the ticket counter." I did not forsee the lack of ramp, elevator, or escalator to gain access to the departure gate. My fault again.

I have learned a lesson, whenever traveling with someone who has difficulty climbing stairs assume the worst and that elevators, escalators and ramps will not be made available to them unless you notify the airline in advance and they will help you through the non ADA complying maze. Right.

What you are reading is lawyer-ese. They will never admit wrongdoing as they can face hefty fines. In fact, several airlines just paid some fines, including US, for not dealing with disabled as well as they should. The claim went against the bankruptcy; there is discussion of it here that you can find if you search around.

The fact that you received the vouchers is testimony to the fact that they do, behind the words, realize that they could have responded better.

What you are reading is lawyer-ese. They will never admit wrongdoing as they can face hefty fines. In fact, several airlines just paid some fines, including US, for not dealing with disabled as well as they should. The claim went against the bankruptcy; there is discussion of it here that you can find if you search around.

The fact that you received the vouchers is testimony to the fact that they do, behind the words, realize that they could have responded better.

I have mentioned a number of times on these threads that when trouble occurs overseas, there is almost never anyone at the airport from the company. While in most cases, airport handling is by third party contracters, surely there is a station manager who does work for the company. Since his/her operation usually consists of a single aircraft (maybe 2) arriving and departing on a given day (hardly a source of overwork), when problems do happen, which result in several hundred people either stranded or arrived after regular hours, what goes through these peoples's minds? Just what do they think they are there for?