US Airways Dividend Miles (Pre-FlightFund Merger) - Terrible experience on US197 (MAN-PHL)

Was anybody on this flight today (June 1)? Absolutely horrific. Some part needed replacing and they didn't have it in Manchester, so their solution was to delay 2 hours, fly us into Gatwick, make us wait on the plane another 1.5 hours while they replaced the part, and then continue the flight to Philadelphia, arriving 5.5 hours late. Most people missed their connections, but we got "lucky" and caught the last flight to Boston this evening. The ground staff and cabin crew on 197 were extremely rude about the delay and completely unprofessional on the flight (arguing loudly with each other, discussion "annoying passengers" (some guy had asked about if he'd be rerouted) with each other in the aisle as they were serving drinks, etc.

To top it all off, the one thing that to me makes the 7.5 hour flight bearable is the A333's video on demand system. Well, not only were they having problems with it and "rebooted it" about 3 times in the first few hours, but when it finally did come up for good and I went to plug in my noise cancelling headphones, the flight attendant came over and rudely told me that I couldn't use them because they didn't fit the plug correctly and would ruin the system. Never mind the fact that I had used it on PHL-MAN flight a week earlier with no problem, and that I was currently using it with no problem. I explained to him that I had the airline adapter for the headphones, that I had used these headphones plenty of times in the past on other flights and never once had I been told that I couldn't use them. His response (in the most condescending tone imaginable): "Well, I'm telling you now, you can't use them." after which he turned his back and walked away. And of course when I plugged in their crappy headphones, the system still worked just fine. Has ANYBODY had a similar experience with respect to bringing your own headphones?

What kind of compensation should I be entitled to for the excessive delay? I know you rarely get anything for weather delays, but this was clearly mechanical, and if they had had the part on hand in Manchester, it should have barely been delayed at all since the plane was parked at the gate at least 2 hours prior to the scheduled departure time.
I'll definitely be sending a complaint letter this week. The unreliable mechanical operations combined with the rude attitude of 90% of their Manchester staff is making me lean towards never flying USAir internationally again. Any thoughts?

-chris

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by chriseng:
Any thoughts?

-chris</font>

Yeah, how about being a little less greedy and stop thinking about what you are "entitled to"?

[This message has been edited by Gordongecko (edited 06-01-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Gordongecko:
Yeah, how about being a little less greedy and stop thinking about what you are "entitled to"?</font>

when i pay for an airline ticket i expect a reasonable level of service. i did not receive anything even resembling that. so yes, i do feel i am entitled to compensation. go figure.

Did you fly MAN-LGW-PHL, or did you wait in MAN to have the part flown in from LGW? Not that it makes a big difference, just curious.

I can tell you to just call, they have some sort of matrix that they read from for delayed compensation.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by chriseng:
The unreliable mechanical operations combined with the rude attitude of 90% of their Manchester staff is making me lean towards never flying USAir internationally again. Any thoughts?
</font>

Yes. I think DL, AA and BMI can all get you to MAN.

What's funny is that while the behavior of the FA was rediculous, he might get told "good job... way to take charge" by his boss reading the complaint. It makes me want to puke.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by chriseng:
Was anybody on this flight today (June 1)? Absolutely horrific. Some part needed replacing and they didn't have it in Manchester, so their solution was to delay 2 hours, fly us into Gatwick, make us wait on the plane another 1.5 hours while they replaced the part, and then continue the flight to Philadelphia, arriving 5.5 hours late. Most people missed their connections, but we got "lucky" and caught the last flight to Boston this evening. </font>

What's the beef here? You could have sat for 7 hours at MAN waiting for a BA tech to come over, or you could have departed for LGW (as you did) to obtain the part.

Sounds lousy. Have some questions and some observations to add to the discussion.

Flying international is a different beast than domestic regarding delays. Losing a complete cycle or day is not uncommon on other carriers when the mechanical occurs in a foreign country. The repair may have related to something about overwater or long distance operation since you were able to fly to Gatwick. Did the crew inform you and update you in a timely manner concerning the delay?

Making connections from international delays is a big problem with the reduction in schedule, especially flying through CLT when the 10PM push has been cancelled on Tu, W and Sa nights. Were the folks in Philly ready with immediate information for everyone as they cleared Customs?

I agree with your concern with the FA's. Rudeness and discussion of other passengers is inexcusable.

Rebooting of the Passport system occurs fairly frequently. Ignorance about the use of personal headphones should be eliminated by corporate memo (save a copy of their response to you for your future flights).

They have a standard protocol for delay compensation. Regarding the two hours while the plane was on the ground in MAN, some problems are not identified until the pre-flight walkaround or starting checklist by the new crew. Then they have to figure out every step of the procedure so the crew does not "time out" thereby stranding you someplace.

Chris, mechanicals do happen. Remember that last year US completed over 5,000 consecutive trans-Atlantics without a cancellation. Sounds like they did OK to get you home same day. I'm not going to defend the FA's actions or attitude.


[This message has been edited by AtlanticBeach (edited 06-02-2003).]

In this post 9/11 world, I have stopped complaining about service and delays. As long as they get me from point A to point B in one piece I am happy. Many folks flying on 9/11 didn't have that luxury. Lets keep things in perspective

This is the 2nd or 3rd time the "Your headphones will ruin our system" story has come up on here... and I heard the announcement last week LAX-CLT on an A321, telling you not to use your own headphones because their wattage (totally not a relevant term here) would damage the plane.

I remember someone else posting an answer from consumer affairs that your own headphones were fine. So where's this coming from? Where are so many flight attendants being told not to let pax us their own headsets?!?

David

A lot of times when an airline has only one flight out of an overseas station and the aircraft has a mechanical problem, the airline has no choice but to cancel and reschedule everyone for the following day. Clearly, US Airways sought out the best possible solution for everyone involved.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by das:
Did you fly MAN-LGW-PHL, or did you wait in MAN to have the part flown in from LGW? Not that it makes a big difference, just curious.</font>

According to usairways.com, Flight 197 on June 1 was scheduled to depart Manchester for Philadelphia at 12:35. It actually departed Manchester at 1:55 (1:20 late), but bound for London-Gatwick. It arrived in London-Gatwick at 3:01 (1:06 flying time). It departed London-Gatwick at 4:57 (after 1:56 on the ground, now 4:22 after originally scheduled Manchester departure). It arrived into the Philadelphia International Airport at 7:53, 4 hours and 23 minutes after its orignally scheduled arrival of 3:30.

Flight 197 from Philadelphia to San Francisco also operated 25 minutes behind scheduled, but as this 197 was an A319, the delay was due to completely unreleated reasons.

There are two beefs here:

I completely understand the logistical problem associated with flying 1 flight/day to an overseas location. Nevertheless, US should not fly to those places unless they are ready/able to deal with these problems. Local spares, subcontracts for maintenance, whatever. That is the airline's problem, and if they choose to fly to MAN (or anywhere else in Europe, for that matter), they need to be prepared to deal with such. I think that *A membership will help in this regard.
But, as has been mentioned, it happens, and there is not a lot you can do about it. If you call/write for compensation on this score, you will get whatever the standard matrix says you will get.

The service issue on the flight is something else entirely. I urge you to document it as much as possible and post a letter to consumer affairs. This headphone BS has got to stop. I had it happen on LAX-PIT about a week ago, and eventually stopped and asked the captain after the flight to impart a clue on this particular cabin staff--my headphones are of a much higher quality than the crap US gives you, and are far less likely to do any damage.

------------------
Saving the world, one clue at a time.

First, about the headphones, the F/A must have gotten up on the wrong side of bed. Keep this memo, and name handy:

(From USAirways)
"Thank you for contacting us again.

I am sorry for the misinformation from the Flight Attendant announcement. We
have no such rule that you can not use a personal headset on board for the
inflight entertainment. We do not have any indication that the Bose brand
gives off any interference.

Mr. M, thank you for allowing me to assist.

Sincerely,
Robin A. Dingess"

Secondly, about the delay and your compensation, it is all spelled out on USAirways' web site terms of transportation(scroll down the right column to the 'Delayed and Cancelled flights' section:

http://www.usairways.com/customers/travel_policies/terms/terms.htm#Onboard%20Delays

In your case, it would seem they should have given you all calling cards when you reached your destination since it was beyond the "2 hours" they stipulate. In addition, they should have provided meals. But, since you were already on board, I'm not sure how this part of the policy would be implemented:


"US Airways will provide a food voucher to customers whose flights have been canceled or delayed for two hours or more during normal meal times, when the delay is not due to Air Traffic Control, weather, or other circumstances beyond US Airways' control. "

Did you not get *any* food until you were on your way from LGW?

Finally, if there was no connection for you to make in PHL, they would have been obligated to put you up overnight. I'm assuming, or at least hoping, that they accomodated stranded pax. They would also be entitled to meals and calling cards:

"In the event of a delay or cancellation, overnight accommodations will be arranged by US Airways at their expense for customers at connecting points whose flights are delayed or canceled because of circumstances within US Airways' control for whom no alternate transportation is available. Overnight accommodations will not be provided for customers whose flights are delayed or canceled due to circumstances beyond US Airways' control such as Air Traffic Control or weather. Overnight accommodations include a hotel and transportation to and from the hotel selected by US Airways. Food vouchers will be provided if the delay or cancellation causes the customer to miss dinner and/or breakfast, or if a meal is not provided on the rerouted flight the next day. A prepaid telephone card or access to a US Airways telephone will also be provided."


Bottom line, the behavior of the crew sounds pretty rude. And, finding an Airbus part in Europe should not be THAT hard. Considering MAN is not a small, out of the way, airport you'd think there would be provisions. But, if ferrying the plane down to LGW sped the process up, then I give kudos to USAirways' dispatch and maintenance for going the extra mile. They could have just let you sit and wait longer.

Getting in 4 1/2 hours late is an annoyance, but considering all the activities that happened to cause the delay, it's not all that bad.

Nonetheless, if the staff didn't adhere to their terms of transportation, then you have a letter to write to Consumer Affairs to at least get their staff and crews trained on how to handle these situations.

This guy got a little bit of everything. Firstly, the help is unhappy, and often not service oriented. Among other things, the company sells a lot of consolidator tickets, which probably bring in a customer type they aren't used to. They can tell the difference, and often it adds to their resentment. Secondly,overseas stations are notoriously poorly managed (like any operation so far from headquarters, where one office is closed while the other is open, etc.), so don't expect much when it goes wrong on that scale. Lastly, when you fly a single spoke carrier (one that throws a single flight a day between two distant points), there isn't much backup. In fact, he's lucky they did the flag stop at Gatwick. Often you are stranded until the next day. I wouldn't look for much in the way of compensation. The customer is pretty well written off these days.One bright spot for using a smaller carrier to Europe. The bad guys don't even know they exist. They're still trying to figure out what happened to Pan Am.

If I'm not mistaken, US contracts their maintenance out to Air France in MAN. A friend of mine was on 197 a couple of months ago and they had a minor mechanical problem. They decided to have it fixed in MAN, and what should have been a 30 minute fix turned into over 6 hours. Maybe they've decided the quickest fix in these situations now is to fly to LGW. Sorry you were inconvenienced!
I've never heard of anyone telling passengers that they aren't allowed to use their own personal headsets, but will try to get some insight on this. I don't see where it should be a problem.
Take care and fly safe.

I will freely admit that my US travelling experience has been limited to a few (very enjoyable) Shuttle flights over the past few years, but as another poster referred to alternative options for getting to MAN I thought I would add to the list (as someone who grew up there and still visits frequently!).

In addition to US, the following transatlantic flights operate nonstop to MAN:

BD (bmi) fly daily from ORD, and daily except Tuesday from IAD. Very good service (especially in Business) on A330's. Once US is in Star you would get status miles for these flights. BD also have good connections to several cities in Scotland from MAN.

AA fly daily from ORD using 767's.

BA fly daily from JFK using (a rather worn out) 767 - this lacks the latest premium class seating and IFE.

CO flies daily from EWR using 777's with IFE and BusinessFirst.

DL flies daily from ATL, using either 767-400's or 777's.

AC flies daily from YYZ, using 767-300's.

My favourite would be BD but I'm biased! There's also the option of flying with Pakistan International Airlines, who offer daily service from JFK (no idea what they're like as a carrier though).

Indirectly, you could fly with EI via DUB, LH via FRA, MUC or DUS, SK via CPH, AF via CDG, KL/NW via AMS and with almost anyone via LHR or LGW (though I would seriously avoid having to transit at LHR!)

I am looking forward to trying out the US A330 service sometime soon out of LGW or MAN - have heard very good things about it, both on this board and elsewhere.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by rd7242:
In this post 9/11 world, I have stopped complaining about service and delays. . . . Lets keep things in perspective</font>

Kudos RD7242. Life is indeed about perspective.

Chris, I can understand your exasperation as a flight delay is certainly not a pleasant thing for anyone to experience. I certainly would not have been a happy camper in your situation either, but patience is a virtue and there's more to life than playing the outraged "victim".

If you have a beef with a FA or a flight experience, there are many ways to address the situation either at the moment or later. It's a two way street in which your attitude/approach is an important as what the other guy says or does.

I'm not trying to be dismissive of your problem, but I learn many years ago to step back and to find a way to make the best of a situation. It doesn't always work ( I too lose my cool on occassion ) but one sure feels better about themselves if they find less vehement ways to solve problems.

Hope that your UK visit was enjoyable if not your flight home.

Barry

Thanks everyone for the comments that have been made so far. I can always count on the FT community for useful info and perspective.

I travel reasonably often on business (though not nearly as much as most of you) and I have definitely become more tolerant of delays since 9/11. In the big picture, a 6 hour difference in getting to my final destination is not a huge deal, I admit. Maybe flying us to LGW to have the mechanical issue fixed was the best option available -- I just think they should be better prepared for things like this. They did keep us updated on the situation, but were pretty rude to anybody who went up to the desk in Manchester inquiring about re-routings. We actually did ask about the meal vouchers, and were told (again very rudely) that they didn't have to give them to us unless we were delayed 5 hours or more. Eventually they did bring in some warm sodas (good ol' UK) and a few packs of shortbread cookies but that wasn't much of a substitute for lunch.

Anyway, right now I'm more concerned over the service. I'm never the type to complain over stuff like "I didn't think the meal tasted good", but the frequency of unprofessional behavior was just really alarming. I've never been on a flight with that many instances of inappropriate behavior.

We'll be flying BOS to MAN at least 2 or 3 times in the next year so we'll definitely be checking out the alternatives to US. Unfortunately, it almost always comes down to price, and this time, US happened to be the cheapest option.

-chris

Flying from BOS to MAN, EI (Aer Lingus) might be worth looking into. They are generally pretty competitive, and you be able to connect with one change of plane in Dublin. I dislike the lack of in-seat video in coach, but service is generally good.

Otherwise all the options in my post above are worth looking at (BD, flying via IAD (they codeshare with United on BOS-IAD-BOS and BOS-ORD-BOS (www.flybmi.com) would definitely win service-wise though, and being with a UK airline with significant operations at MAN might help avoid problems of the kind you experienced. United also sell codeshare seats on bmi services via the ual.com website. Or you could always give US another chance!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by chriseng:
We'll be flying BOS to MAN at least 2 or 3 times in the next year so we'll definitely be checking out the alternatives to US. Unfortunately, it almost always comes down to price, and this time, US happened to be the cheapest option.

-chris</font>

I don't have alot to add here except to say that rude service is the one thing that will get me right in someones face and frankly I don't see it very often with US.

I do suggest your crawl right into Consumer Affairs ear and ask them directly "do you want me to book my next 3 trips to MAN with your airline or not?" When he/she answers "yes" ask them "After what happened please give me a compeling business reason to fly US again?" That line has gotten me a ton of goodies over the last 3 years. If you get into the repair issue and delays I think you weaken your case.