TalkBoard Topics - Proposal: Allow Talkboard members to moderate the Talkboard Topics forum

It always seems weird that a member of the moderator team is assigned to moderate the Talkboard forum. This is after all their forum.

I propose to let the Talkboard assign a moderator to this forum from a lineup of the current Talkboard members.

This would allow the Talkboard to determine what is considered "off topic" instead of the moderator assigned to this forum.

It always seems weird that a member of the moderator team is assigned to moderate the Talkboard forum. This is after all their forum.

I propose to let the Talkboard assign a moderator to this forum from a lineup of the current Talkboard members.

This would allow the Talkboard to determine what is considered "off topic" instead of the moderator assigned to this forum.

The title should be changed to "...TalkBoard Topics forum"

I don't have an immediately positive reaction to this proposal, but I look forward to reading members' thoughts on it.

I don't have an immediately positive reaction to this proposal, but I look forward to reading members' thoughts on it.

Not likely, because if any members tried to state their thoughts the non-TB moderators would immediately silence them for "discussion of moderation".

Personally, I'm good with Moderator2's decisions & involvement. If something needs to be moderated or "unmoderated" in this forum, he's been available.

That said, I'd rather have an impartial guy such as Moderator2 than a passionate TB member moderating the forum...

Just my 2 cents...

That said, I'd rather have an impartial guy such as Moderator2 than a passionate TB member moderating the forum...

This.

When we were drafting the TB guidelines my notion was the the TB president should moderate both the private TB forum as well as this forum.

I was told in no uncertain terms by the moderator members of the TB at that time that no TB document could take a 'non-moderator' and make him or her a moderator. That only Randy and/or other moderators could choose moderators. Because to make someone a moderator of ANYthing just because he or she was TB president was a violation of everything the moderator corps stands for and holds dear. My goodness, such an interloper might read the private moderator forum, might fail the various morality, training and other super-secret criteria established for moderators and might be-soil and besmirch the good name that is MODERATOR.

Thus the unwieldy process for moderation of the private TB forum should a non-moderator be elected TB President as well as the 'outside' moderation of this forum.

I was told in no uncertain terms by the moderator members of the TB at that time that no TB document could take a 'non-moderator' and make him or her a moderator. That only Randy and/or other moderators could choose moderators. Because to make someone a moderator of ANYthing just because he or she was TB president was a violation of everything the moderator corps stands for and holds dear. My goodness, such an interloper might read the private moderator forum, might fail the various morality, training and other super-secret criteria established for moderators and might be-soil and besmirch the good name that is MODERATOR.

+1

I was told in no uncertain terms by the moderator members of the TB at that time Goodness - I didn't realise that there was an expiry date on the confidentiality of that forum :confused:

I like the spin you are applying though! Way to be a politician ^

Goodness - I didn't realise that there was an expiry date on the confidentiality of that forum :confused:



Well if I am guilty of violating the TB guidelines, by all means initiate the penalty procedures called for in the guidelines! :p

I like the spin you are applying though! Way to be a politician Just relating it the way I heard it! :)

koko, I believe the problem with having a non-moderator moderate a forum may be a technical limitation. It may not be possible to enable thread moving, editing, and deletion capability without also granting access to the moderators' discussion forum. If such a thing were possible, I can think of any number of people who I would trust as, in effect, assistant moderators.

Back to the OP, my concern was that the TB would argue about whom to appoint to this position. As others have noted, the proposal could also create fear of and perception of politically motivated moderation decisions in this forum. We don't need that.

We've been getting unbiased and consistent moderation here, but if you'd like it to be different in some way, send a private message to the moderator to explain your feelings.

koko, I believe the problem with having a non-moderator moderate a forum may be a technical limitation. It may not be possible to enable thread moving, editing, and deletion capability without also granting access to the moderators' discussion forum. If such a thing were possible, I can think of any number of people who I would trust as, in effect, assistant moderators.

Back to the OP, my concern was that the TB would argue about whom to appoint to this position. As others have noted, the proposal could also create fear of and perception of politically motivated moderation decisions in this forum. We don't need that.

We've been getting unbiased and consistent moderation here, but if you'd like it to be different in some way, send a private message to the moderator to explain your feelings.

Man, your clubhouse must be super sweet. :rolleyes:

Man, your clubhouse must be super sweet. :rolleyes:

Lol, you apparently hear it the same way I hear it. :D ;)

IMHO, if the moderators can't trust someone who is

- elected first by the posters to a position of trust as a TB member
- THEN elected to a further position of trust as the TB president by the other elected TB members

with temporary access to their super sweet clubhouse then that must be SOME awesome executive restroom indeed.

Either that or the mods don't trust the posters.

that must be SOME awesome executive restroom indeed.

What??? All these years of moderating and no one has given me a key. I'm still using the bushes. ;)

Man, your clubhouse must be super sweet. :rolleyes:

Honestly, the black helicopters have always been around the moderator forum, and I can understand why. As it stands, the forum really is a pretty dull place.

Right now, these are the first ten threads in the forum (titles changed so I don't violate any rules):


Wishlist of board updates
Group mod emails?
Do rules
List of dupe handles
New/reassigned mods
New mod joins airline forum
Coupon connection challenges
Interesting threads on the forum
Feature request
Signature questions
Should Kokonutz be banned forever?


As you can see, there is nothing there that is even remotely interesting. I'd have no problem letting a Talkboard member participate in it. The community elected that person, and they should have earned our trust with that alone.

We have very strict rules in place about discussing specific members, we have rules about discussing other moderators. 99.9% of the discussions are just boring and discuss nothing more than board housekeeping.

assistant moderators...
I know a story about being an ASSMOD ....ask some day and I will tell you about 9 months of torture. But the Moderator forum was interesting (I think that was before Jenbel was on there though:p) !

Scott did a very good job of explaining what goes on at that board.

Of course the Koko thread gets the most traffic! ;)

Honestly, the black helicopters have always been around the moderator forum, and I can understand why. As it stands, the forum really is a pretty dull place.

Right now, these are the first ten threads in the forum (titles changed so I don't violate any rules):


Wishlist of board updates
Group mod emails?
Do rules
List of dupe handles
New/reassigned mods
New mod joins airline forum
Coupon connection challenges
Interesting threads on the forum
Feature request
Signature questions
Should Kokonutz be banned forever?


As you can see, there is nothing there that is even remotely interesting. I'd have no problem letting a Talkboard member participate in it. The community elected that person, and they should have earned our trust with that alone.

We have very strict rules in place about discussing specific members, we have rules about discussing other moderators. 99.9% of the discussions are just boring and discuss nothing more than board housekeeping.


The black helicopter stuff is all documented in the abused/banned user data base!:p

Honestly, the black helicopters have always been around the moderator forum, and I can understand why. As it stands, the forum really is a pretty dull place.

Right now, these are the first ten threads in the forum (titles changed so I don't violate any rules):


Wishlist of board updates
Group mod emails?
Do rules
List of dupe handles
New/reassigned mods
New mod joins airline forum
Coupon connection challenges
Interesting threads on the forum
Feature request
Signature questions
Should Kokonutz be banned forever?


As you can see, there is nothing there that is even remotely interesting. I'd have no problem letting a Talkboard member participate in it. The community elected that person, and they should have earned our trust with that alone.

We have very strict rules in place about discussing specific members, we have rules about discussing other moderators. 99.9% of the discussions are just boring and discuss nothing more than board housekeeping.

I'm kinda pissed that my thread has fallen so low. :mad:

I have been banned far more quickly by better IBBs than THIS!

Lol, you apparently hear it the same way I hear it. :D ;)

IMHO, if the moderators can't trust someone who is

- elected first by the posters to a position of trust as a TB member
- THEN elected to a further position of trust as the TB president by the other elected TB members

with temporary access to their super sweet clubhouse then that must be SOME awesome executive restroom indeed.

Either that or the mods don't trust the posters.

I don't think this issue has even been thought of for 95% of the FTer's. I see no reason why the TB president shouldn't moderate his own forum. He needs an editor with supreme power? I think not. Maybe Moderator2 should be our president if he is controlling what is said in the presidents forum due to a, "that's the way it has always been done" reason.

Way too many levels of bureaucracy here, but I have always been on the less moderation the better side of things.

I'm kinda pissed that my thread has fallen so low. :mad:

I have been banned far more quickly by better IBBs than THIS!

I know someone who's created another one recently. ;)

What??? All these years of moderating and no one has given me a key. I'm still using the bushes. ;)

:D

I know someone who's created another one recently. ;)

Are miles and points discussed there? Is it beta than FT?

What??? All these years...... Speaking of which, I am still trying to understand why you feel the need to have 2 moderator handles?:confused: Wouldn't one suffice?

Q Shoe,

Despite your off-topic question I'll respond. I actually only have one moderator handle.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/milesbuzz/4606-full-disclosure.html

Purely a technical decision at the time moderation was first implemented in July 2001. Originally moderators were going to be anonymous. That decision was reversed by myself and Moderator1 within a few days, and we outed ourselves, so to speak.

The third appointed moderator (about three or four days after Moderator1 and I were "created") asked Randy implement software that would allow readers to easily determine of someone was an appointed moderator, which happened within a few days afterwards. The board host decided future appointees all used the software solution for identification. Switching between handles requires logging in and out, which is a bit of a pain. Moderator1 and I decided to continue doing so, in order to maintain an identity that would not be formally identified as being a moderator.

Moderator1 ("Burkey") gave up his moderation role in 2003.

Now back to the topic of TalkBoard members being moderators...



Moderator2

It always seems weird that a member of the moderator team is assigned to moderate the Talkboard forum. This is after all their forum.

I propose to let the Talkboard assign a moderator to this forum from a lineup of the current Talkboard members.

This would allow the Talkboard to determine what is considered "off topic" instead of the moderator assigned to this forum.

That said, I'd rather have an impartial guy such as Moderator2 than a passionate TB member moderating the forum...
What about an impartial TB member or even an impartial (non-elected, non-appointed) general member as TB 'moderator'?

Maybe the better question is whether impartiality is the chief concern here -- in which case it shouldn't matter who is doing the moderating, e.g. regular mod, TB member or general member -- or Talk Board self-rule? I'm not entirely clear whether those are necessarily exclusive concerns, to tell you the truth.

That said, I continue to support M2 remaining in his current assignment for as long as he is willing to do it -- not because because he is a mod first but because he's temperate.

. . . . .

As we're delving into finer points of identity and membership, two quick cents worth:
Originally moderators were going to be anonymous. [...]

The third appointed moderator ... asked Randy implement software that would allow readers to easily determine of someone was an appointed moderator, which happened within a few days afterwards.That was a indeed an excellent solution though one I cannot accept credit for. But as the other (non-anonymous) leg of the original troika, I felt you and burkey were justified in opting for generic mod handles given the degree of correspondence between your actual name and regular handle. It was a complex call and the first of many you've been forced to make over the last ~10 years.

Maybe the better question is whether impartiality is the chief concern here -- in which case it shouldn't matter who is doing the moderating, e.g. regular mod, TB member or general member -- or Talk Board self-rule? I'm not entirely clear whether those are necessarily exclusive concerns, to tell you the truth.


As a former elected TB member who has been suspended in the recent past (while serving as an elected member) by a non-TB moderator for comments made in the TB forum, I do believe that there is a problem. If TB is to maintain the appearance of independent elected representatives of the userbase, they must enjoy some levels of privilege to voice their true opinions without fear of unelected officials using their powers to silence or even remove them from office.

I think Moderator2 does an excellent job within the constraints that he has, but there is no way that someone can effectively "moderate" the "public" side of a discussion without a knowledge of what is happening on the "private" side of the discussion. This is not an attack on him personally (he knows I have the utmost respect for him) but rather on the system.

As a former elected TB member who has been suspended in the recent past (while serving as an elected member) by a non-TB moderator for comments made in the TB forum, I do believe that there is a problem. If TB is to maintain the appearance of independent elected representatives of the userbase, they must enjoy some levels of privilege to voice their true opinions without fear of unelected officials using their powers to silence or even remove them from office.

Sorry, we're members first and foremost.

If voicing your opinion = violating the TOS, then expect the consequences.

Spiff was installed as Talkboard President in accordance with the TB guidelines. There is no questionably installed about it.

If you were suspended, you violated FT TOS. If you disagreed w/ the suspension, then contacting Randy was the appropriate course of action.

Back on topic. Speaking for myself, I'm fine w/ Mod 2 continuing to be Mod of TB forum.

Cheers.

Spiff was installed as Talkboard President in accordance with the TB guidelines. There is no questionably installed about it.

That is a matter of opinion. Multiple users other than myself have questioned the interpretation of the TB guidelines to appoint Spiff as the Substantitive President as opposed to Acting President.

In typical autocratic fashion, he has not bothered to address the issue himself but instead relies on a network of sycophantic flunkies to take cheap shots at those who dare raise their voices and simply pretend we don't exist.

That is a matter of opinion. Multiple users other than myself have questioned the interpretation of the TB guidelines to appoint Spiff as the Substantitive President as opposed to Acting President.

I am working on a proposal to state the procedures for filling vacancies unambiguously in the guidelines. If you had not raised the issue, I might not have bothered. You may soon be able to claim credit for a change that makes your objection moot. @:-)

I am working on a proposal to state the procedures for filling vacancies unambiguously in the guidelines. If you had not raised the issue, I might not have bothered. You may soon be able to claim credit for a change that makes your objection moot. @:-)

^^^

I knew I was happy for a reason when you were appointed to complete my unfinished term! Good job and thanks!

In typical autocratic fashion, he has not bothered to address the issue himself but instead relies on a network of sycophantic flunkies to take cheap shots at those who dare raise their voices and simply pretend we don't exist.

And some might say that's a cheap shot ;)

Since I've never been a flunkie to anyone & pretty much everyone knows I speak my mind (even if they don't like what I have to say), I know you're not referring to me.

Cheers.

Sorry, we're members first and foremost.


I always felt that was a load of crap. And apparently the man who originated the phrase has changed his thinking as well, given his vastly different approach to moderation he is taking on MilePoint.

Since I've never been a flunkie to anyone & pretty much everyone knows I speak my mind (even if they don't like what I have to say), I know you're not referring to me.

Indeed I'm not. The cheap shots on the thread in question were swiftly removed by the wonderful Moderator2 as they constituted personal attacks! :)

I always felt that was a load of crap. And apparently the man who originated the phrase has changed his thinking as well, given his vastly different approach to moderation he is taking on MilePoint.

Amen to that. As a moderator, I've always felt way more important than you.

In fact, I could ban you right now, and with the procedures we have in place, it would probably take a couple of months for you to get reinstated.

Sadly, this is also the ONLY power I have in my life.

I know a story about being an ASSMOD ....ask some day and I will tell you about 9 months of torture. But the Moderator forum was interesting (I think that was before Jenbel was on there though:p) !
this is some day.

Amen to that. As a moderator, I've always felt way more important than you.

In fact, I could ban you right now, and with the procedures we have in place, it would probably take a couple of months for you to get reinstated.

Sadly, this is also the ONLY power I have in my life.

ROFLMAO. Thank you for painting the picture. Oh, Shreky! I do adore you so!

this is some day. Really? How has something that I (as a member and former moderator here) experienced made it "some day" for you ?:confused:

I know a story about being an ASSMOD ....ask some day and I will tell you about 9 months of torture. But the Moderator forum was interesting (I think that was before Jenbel was on there though:p) !

For me this is some day, I have asked, I would like to read your story.