TalkBoard Topics - Proposed: To do with away with the "Evangelist" and other titles!

As this came up in the Omni post thread, I thought it warranted it's own discussion. I believe the time is ripe for change and that titles on FT have outlived their usefulness. With this in mind I propose a removal of all titles except for Moderators and TalkBoard members only viewable when they are posting in their official capacities! This will also hopefully help to make this site a more friendly place to post travel information.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

So you are inferring that when someone with "Evangelist" or "Original Member" or any other title makes a post on FlyerTalk they are restricting the friendly exchange of travel information?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Completely disagree that removing titles will make for a friendlier FT or exactly how they have outlived their usefulness as OP contends though fails to offer further explanation.

A "solution" lacking evidence in search of a problem. No thanks.

I think it is an excellent idea. Does the word "Evangelist" under my name mean that my opinion of the Doubletree in Atlanta is more valuable than that of someone else?

If someone is a moderator or a TalkBoard member he is a better source of knowledge about El Al than an Israeli without a title?

All the titles serve to do is act as ego boosters.

Does the word "Evangelist" under my name mean that my opinion of the Doubletree in Atlanta is more valuable than that of someone else?

Does ones FT enrollment date convey the same or similiar value? Or your post count? IMHO if we're doing away with one we should do away with all as titles are certainly not the only milemarker used on FT.

I have specifically requested that my "Evangelist" title be removed. I prefer it that way.

Others like to display their titles. They prefer it that way.

To each their own.

Why legislate personal choice?

I think it is an excellent idea. Does the word "Evangelist" under my name mean that my opinion of the Doubletree in Atlanta is more valuable than that of someone else?

If someone is a moderator or a TalkBoard member he is a better source of knowledge about El Al than an Israeli without a title?

All the titles serve to do is act as ego boosters.

Well said.

Are everyone's post counts (which lead to "Evangelist" status) "equal"? Do any of them reflect OMNI posts before OMNI posts were no longer included in post counts? If so, that only furthers my support for removal of titles other than Talk Board member or Moderator.

I fully support this proposal.

My ego is fine & doesn't need boosting by a title. Whether it says Evangalist or not or has join date or not, I'll still post & contribute to FT.

This isn't the first time the topic has come up; won't be the last. I don't see the problem, and I definitely don't understand the OP saying that if you have a title under your name that you're then not friendly to fellow FTers.

Cheers.

Well said.

Are everyone's post counts (which lead to "Evangelist" status) "equal"? Do any of them reflect OMNI posts before OMNI posts were no longer included in post counts? If so, that only furthers my support for removal of titles other than Talk Board member or Moderator.

This is what I don't like about the titles. A lot (A LOT) of posters racked up huge number of OMNI posts when OMNI posts counted. Those people became evangelists. Others became evangelists because of contest threads -- posting all kinds of post-padding nonsense normally against the TOS -- then Randy inexplicably allowed those posts to count in a user's post count total. Still others post day in and day out in Lounge threads. Those posts count, too.

Like the titles? Fine. Go remove *all* OMNI posts from everyone's post counts and do the same for the Lounge threads, contest threads, and anything not point and miles related. If that drops a poster under 10K, big deal, right?

If the members want a particular change and speak clearly for it, I'm here to give them what they want. In the absence of that, I think we get the status quo.

FWIW, if I had to make a change, I would go for a user choice between the default title (Evangelist or whatever) and a user-defined title that would display in a different color to indicate subtly that it was the creation of that user.

I really do not see the problem. The title simply reflects that somebody posts a lot. Nobody is likely to be deceived by that, although Significant Others might well think that title is a reflection of lack of attention to other parts of life. So be it. Who cares? The title is fun, nothing more. Keep it, and let anybody remove it if they don't want it. Whether it is OMNI or anything else I'd let it count because even those opinions we share because we do have a common interest and we find each other interesting in nonflying activities too.

History trivia: up until the fall of 2000, it only took 250 posts to become an "Evangelist" :D

History trivia: up until the fall of 2000, it only took 250 posts to become an "Evangelist" :D

Did it jump from 250 to 10,000, or were there some other intermediate stops?

Anyone think the new threshold should be 400,000 posts? :cool:

I don't mind all titles being deleted except for mods so I vote more yes than no.

I don't know the definitions of the title's auto-assignments and don't know where to specifically search for them but I don't take much use of the titles as much as one's post count and, even more so, their actual involvement. Indeed, OMNI use has distorted the post counts thus the titles. Also, I do also wonder whether we need the such titles or whether community participation can be better fostered through other title assignments in a contest-like way.

As this came up in the Omni post thread, I thought it warranted it's own discussion. I believe the time is ripe for change and that titles on FT have outlived their usefulness. With this in mind I propose a removal of all titles except for Moderators and TalkBoard members only viewable when they are posting in their official capacities! This will also hopefully help to make this site a more friendly place to post travel information.

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others. ^

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others. ^
You know, this is exactly what quote I thought of when I read the OP, but I meant it in the exact opposite to you.

The OP would like to enforce equality on us all, regardless of the fact that some of us do have additional roles on FT. Apparently, it's unwelcoming or unfriendly to see that some people have volunteered and been selected or elected to assist the forum in different ways. We must all look alike, comrade! Uniformity will be enforced.. no deviation is permitted.

I do wonder though, how the Ambassador thing will work, when they cannot display that they are Ambassadors :confused:

The OP would like to enforce equality on us all, regardless of the fact that some of us do have additional roles on FT.

Whatever happened to "moderators are first and foremost members"?

Whatever happened to "moderators are first and foremost members"?
Nothing.

How does the fact that I have listed the forums I moderate under my name prevent that?

You know, this is exactly what quote I thought of when I read the OP, but I meant it in the exact opposite to you.

The OP would like to enforce equality on us all, regardless of the fact that some of us do have additional roles on FT. Apparently, it's unwelcoming or unfriendly to see that some people have volunteered and been selected or elected to assist the forum in different ways. We must all look alike, comrade! Uniformity will be enforced.. no deviation is permitted.

I do wonder though, how the Ambassador thing will work, when they cannot display that they are Ambassadors :confused: {Unnecessary editorial comment removed by moderator}what don't you understand about this part "With this in mind I propose a removal of all titles except for Moderators and TalkBoard members only viewable when they are posting in their official capacities!?

{original passage removed by moderator} what don't you understand about this part "With this in mind I propose a removal of all titles except for Moderators and TalkBoard members only viewable when they are posting in their official capacities!?

On bulletin boards that I've been a moderator or administrator on, only administrators can control whether the title appears under the handle and what that title is. If this board is set up in a similar way, those individual Mods or TB members would not be able to toggle on/off the title, thus creating a huge headache for either the Community Director or IB.

{original passage removed by moderator}what don't you understand about this part "With this in mind I propose a removal of all titles except for Moderators and TalkBoard members only viewable when they are posting in their official capacities!?
Define official capacity. If I'm posting on a forum I moderate, am I posting in my official capacity or not?

There are some TOS breaches which are not tied to any particular forum - for example PM abuse, where a PM can be forwarded onto any mod. How do you think the visibility of Mods will drop if they only are identified as such on the relatively rare occasion they are having to intervene in a thread?

I note you say posting - would you include PMing in our official capacity? If so, why wasn't this included in the OP?

We've heard countless times this year that TB members are not allowed to post in any official capacity - hence they cannot go and start threads in other forums (apparently). So at no point, would they (except for the VP when he is posting results of votes) be able to display they are on TB. Why would you hide who is on TB from the members who have elected them except for during the election period?

Do you have any idea if what you ask for can actually be instutitued with the current board software, and what it would involve for those you are asking to do this?

Whatever happened to "moderators are first and foremost members"?

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others. ^

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others. ^
You can ask that your Evangelist title be removed if it distresses you ^

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others. ^

"No animal shall drink alcohol to excess" ^

"No animal shall drink alcohol to excess" ^

Finally a relevant comment. Why are people getting worked up about this. There is a difference between an active participant in any forum and one who shows up occasionally. That difference is reflected in titles. Where is it not. It's just a part of life, just as most of us go through hoops to protect our silly fetishes about Frequent Flyer status.

Keep the titles. they inform the posting public of something or other and feed the tender egos of the recipients. I will want mine if I ever earn one.

As people have said repeatedly, "if you don't want yours, remove it"

Anyway drinking alcohol to excess is what DiningBuzz is partly about, and some animals really like that Forum.

"No animal shall drink alcohol to excess" ^

Who am I to argue? Napoleon is always right.

I'm sure glad mean old Snowball is gone!

Anyway drinking alcohol to excess is what DiningBuzz is partly about....

Actually, no.... ;)

If this board is set up in a similar way, those individual Mods or TB members would not be able to toggle on/off the title, thus creating a huge headache for either the Community Director or IB.

Then keep them turned off and the mods can do what many already do when posting in their official capacity:

"[Mod hat on].....[/Mod hat off]"

Define official capacity. If I'm posting on a forum I moderate, am I posting in my official capacity or not?

Those who use the above format are very clear whether they are posting in their official capacity.

Then keep them turned off and the mods can do what many already do when posting in their official capacity:

"[Mod hat on].....[/Mod hat off]"



Those who use the above format are very clear whether they are posting in their official capacity.

Or we can just leave things as they are and encourage the small minority with a problem with titles to PM management to have their own unwanted title removed.

So you'd reduce the visibility of the group of members who are assigned to forums to provide help and assistance, making it much harder for those members to actually find who is the mod on each forum.

{Inflammatory passage removed by moderator}

I guess I just don't get why is it so awful that the mods are visible?

The mods Need to be visible. We peons want to knwow how to find our mods and know they are active posting on their moderated forums and elsewhere. I want the titles there, and I am certain most of us share that view.

Then keep them turned off and the mods can do what many already do when posting in their official capacity:

"[Mod hat on].....[/Mod hat off]"



Those who use the above format are very clear whether they are posting in their official capacity.

That's silly. When a cop goes home at night, hangs up his badge and gun, pulls on his jammies and lays down in bed he is still a cop.

"Moderators are first and foremost members" only because Squealer wrote it on the wall of the barn. And therefore it MUST be true! @:-)

Or we can just leave things as they are and encourage the small minority with a problem with titles to PM management to have their own unwanted title removed.

It is not so much that I want my title removed, it is more that it is of absolutely no importance to me one way or the other.

Honestly, my ego does not need to be fed by having an IBB tell me I am an "Evangelist".

I think FT should mix in a few random titles.
For example, at 11,398 posts, members titles should become "Flyertalk Yogi"
(And then revert back to Evangelist at 11,399 posts).

Finally a relevant comment. Why are people getting worked up about this. There is a difference between an active participant in any forum and one who shows up occasionally. That difference is reflected in titles. Where is it not. It's just a part of life, just as most of us go through hoops to protect our silly fetishes about Frequent Flyer status.

Keep the titles. they inform the posting public of something or other and feed the tender egos of the recipients. I will want mine if I ever earn one.


Yeah...one knows how to count backwards from 123,456 and one doesn't. :p

More seriously, the titles are silly, but as on most Internet messageboards, post count is one indication of a members knowledge. It's not a perfect measure by any count, but without any other way to designate knowledgeable members, it will have to do.

My ego is fine & doesn't need boosting by a title. Whether it says Evangalist or not or has join date or not, I'll still post & contribute to FT.

This isn't the first time the topic has come up; won't be the last. I don't see the problem, and I definitely don't understand the OP saying that if you have a title under your name that you're then not friendly to fellow FTers.

Cheers.

Yet you feel the need to advertise your elite UA and Marriott status? Why not remove that if you feel the evangelist title can go?

The title doesn't hurt anyone, and it shows a certain level of commitment and loyalty to the site that is worth showing.

Yet you feel the need to advertise your elite UA and Marriott status? Why not remove that if you feel the evangelist title can go

The titles are fine. The people that "earn" those titles should be able to do so on equal footing is the point I've been screaming for the past few years now. Those whose OMNI posts counted somehow benefit from the fact that they posted in OMNI prior to the rule change.

I think FT should mix in a few random titles.
For example, at 11,398 posts, members titles should become "Flyertalk Yogi"
(And then revert back to Evangelist at 11,399 posts).
Oh, now that would be cool :D

The titles are fine. The people that "earn" those titles should be able to do so on equal footing is the point I've been screaming for the past few years now. Those whose OMNI posts counted somehow benefit from the fact that they posted in OMNI prior to the rule change.

How do they "benefit"? What kind of perks do they get? This is nothing more than a piece of text that shows someone posted 10,000 times. Is there some kind of secret welcome package I never received?

...post count is one indication of a members knowledge.

^ This is how the point is put in the Coupon Connection Rules and Guidelines (this section written by moi with Randy Petersen's approval):

A person's "post count" is just one index of his or her experience on and commitment to FlyerTalk. A high post count -- along with the other information you may find in reading their threads and responses to them! -- is one way to assess how trustworthy a person is in this venue. Where he or she has posted is also one index to their contributions to the FlyerTalk community. For example, if you see that a poster has 300 posts, but they are all in Coupon Connection, then you may wonder how committed they are to the overall FlyerTalk community.

How do they "benefit"? What kind of perks do they get? This is nothing more than a piece of text that shows someone posted 10,000 times. Is there some kind of secret welcome package I never received?

If it's no benefit then it should be no problem to put everyone on equal footing.

It's funny how it's no big deal until someone suggests that all OMNI posts not count retroactively.

Thread is now reopened. BE NICE!

Sorry for the uberschnuberlong post:cool:

I kind of suggested the opposite;
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/1170961-add-tb-terms-posters-title.html

I think it is an excellent idea. Does the word "Evangelist" under my name mean that my opinion of the Doubletree in Atlanta is more valuable than that of someone else?

Sorry, I dont see the problem. To improve functionality etc, its good to have some minimum data under the nick. But these 2 are completely irrelevant by any means as evanglist/original member is just a consequence of other information also put there. Join date indicates if you are a O.M., and this should be included. Post count speaks by itself. The titles proposed to be removed have no independent meaning whatsoever.

Does ones FT enrollment date convey the same or similiar value? Or your post count? IMHO if we're doing away with one we should do away with all as titles are certainly not the only milemarker used on FT.

The first part confirms ehat I say above. With that said there is nothing IIRC in the OP proposal to remove other titles. Thats a different discussion and a new thread.

I have specifically requested that my "Evangelist" title be removed. I prefer it that way.


Fair choice, but I dont see any reason that these things should be personal. Either you are evangelist/moderator/ambassador etc or you are not.

This is what I don't like about the titles. A lot (A LOT) of posters racked up huge number of OMNI posts when OMNI posts counted. Those people became evangelists. Others became evangelists because of contest threads -- posting all kinds of post-padding nonsense normally against the TOS -- then Randy inexplicably allowed those posts to count in a user's post count total. Still others post day in and day out in Lounge threads. Those posts count, too.

Like the titles? Fine. Go remove *all* OMNI posts from everyone's post counts and do the same for the Lounge threads, contest threads, and anything not point and miles related. If that drops a poster under 10K, big deal, right?

If possible, one should actually do this. If not, well whats the problem. I guess a lot of people have statuses on airlines and hotels earned with old rules etc as well. Their benefit.

History trivia: up until the fall of 2000, it only took 250 posts to become an "Evangelist" :D

Whats the lowest post count evangelist still posting regularly? Anyone below 1000?

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others. ^

Whatever happened to "moderators are first and foremost members"?

According to my original proposal, I really mean its a huge difference between official positions and random titles. Again nothing in OPs proposal to remove more titles.


Thread is now reopened. BE NICE!

Seems I missed the fun:D

The first part confirms ehat I say above. With that said there is nothing IIRC in the OP proposal to remove other titles. Thats a different discussion and a new thread.

Disagree. Some here contend the title itself conveys some sort of value and I was jusr stating my opinion that it's not the only part of our member display that does this and IMHO they either all go or all stay.

I dont see any reason that these things should be personal. Either you are evangelist/moderator/ambassador etc or you are not.

Unlike Moderator or Ambassador where one actually consents or even volunteers to be part of the program, Evangelist is a purely involuntary title that is awarded, similar to an honour, to those who reach a certain threshold. Like all honours however, one should have the right to politely decline. An honour that one is forced to accept is no honour at all.

If it ain't broken, don't fix it! :rolleyes:

When I first joined FT, one of the first people that I contacted was an evangelist. They were very helpful and answered any/all questions that I had..

This is just for fun. Personally I don´t care if someone is "evangelist" or not. Most of the times I don´t even look at the handle....

If it ain't broken, don't fix it! :rolleyes:

When I first joined FT, one of the first people that I contacted was an evangelist. They were very helpful and answered any/all questions that I had..

608 posts left:D

One thing I positively like about Flyertalk is the fact that - unlike some other forums - it doesn't have a plethora of post count based silly titles.

In some forums you get one title when you join and another one after 50 posts and then another one after 100 and so on... and some of these titles are SO silly. "Fresh meat". "Sad forumite". I'm glad we don't do this here, and I hope it will stay that way.

As for the "Evangelist" title... well, in many ways it's really superfluous. You know that someone has a post count of more than 10,000 because it says so. Why does one need a title in addition to the post count? It doesn't say anything that the post count doesn't say.

But that's just an observation. I haven't really got any strong feelings either way. (Maybe a slight preference for abolishing the "Evangelist" title... but that's only a slight preference and I'm really not bothered either way. It won't affect me for another nine years!)

Joining dates and post counts ARE useful information - you can tell if someone is new (and needs to be given some slack/extra help), you can tell if someone is experienced (and may be able to help others).

I also think that moderators should be identified as such, regardless of whether or not they are posting in their official capacity. Sometimes a member may want to contact a moderator - any moderator - for some advice, and in those situations it's useful to know that the person they have just had an exchange with on some subject or other is a moderator who may be able to help with their query.

For example, I think each person should have a database displayed next to their signature, displaying the total count, count on each forum, usefulness of each post as determined by others etc. Since the usefulness could be marked down by useless posters downgrading the important of your posts, this should be further multiplied by their score etc etc... After all what are computers for? :D

We already know after a few months who the useful posters are and what info they provide. The titles serve to help newcomers mainly. I may lurk and not post often in several lounges, but that does not mean I do not know. As posted above, the titles are there, if you choose to display (or not). Perhaps we need more titles.. I want to be a wannabe Evangelist.

I also think that moderators should be identified as such, regardless of whether or not they are posting in their official capacity. Sometimes a member may want to contact a moderator - any moderator - for some advice, and in those situations it's useful to know that the person they have just had an exchange with on some subject or other is a moderator who may be able to help with their query.


Good point and I can't tell you how many times I've been contacted by someone to help out in Japan Airlines, Budget Travel or a host of other forums I never visit and hardly knew existed.

I'm able to quickly put the member in contact with someone who can help them.

For example, I think each person should have a database displayed next to their signature, displaying the total count, count on each forum, usefulness of each post as determined by others etc. Since the usefulness could be marked down by useless posters downgrading the important of your posts, this should be further multiplied by their score etc etc... After all what are computers for? :D

We already know after a few months who the useful posters are and what info they provide. The titles serve to help newcomers mainly. I may lurk and not post often in several lounges, but that does not mean I do not know. As posted above, the titles are there, if you choose to display (or not). Perhaps we need more titles.. I want to be a wannabe Evangelist.

You think FT would be capable of this?! :p