US Airways Dividend Miles (Pre-FlightFund Merger) - US/UAL MARKETING ALLIANCE APPROVED!

Washington, Oct. 2 (Bloomberg) -- UAL Corp.'s United Airlines and US Airways Group Inc. can immediately begin a marketing alliance designed to help the unprofitable carriers increase revenues, the U.S. Department of Transportation ruled.

``The alliance should increase competition in certain markets while providing service benefits for a number of travelers,'' the department said in a statement. The ruling lets the carriers sell tickets for one another's flights, expanding their networks and building revenue, while remaining separate. Some small carriers have said the plan may hurt competition.

United and US Airways, the nation's No. 2 and No. 7 carriers, announced the alliance July 25. The plan is part of US Airways Chief Executive Officer David Siegel's effort to lift the carrier out of bankruptcy protection and restore profit, perhaps ultimately leading to its inclusion in United's international Star alliance to boost annual revenue by $200 million.

A similar proposed marketing alliance involving Delta Air Lines Inc., Northwest Airlines Corp. and Continental Airlines Inc. ``remains under review,'' the department statement said. Those three carriers, the nation's third-, fourth- and fifth-largest, said they formed their proposed alliance to respond to the United- US Airways plan.

US Airways' Siegel envisions shrinking US Airways over the next few years while increasing the carrier's use of regional jets at its commuter partners to help funnel passengers to its key East Coast city airports. That passenger flow will also fill up flights for United and the Star alliance.

*Club sharing on 14Oct.
*Codeshare 1Q '03
*Earn and redeem miles "in the coming months"

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/021002/22554_1.html

[This message has been edited by chexfan (edited 10-02-2002).]

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[This message has been edited by PHL (edited 10-02-2002).]

But, no *A award redemption yet, oh well:

"US Airways' first priority is to implement a successful code share with United, in both U.S. and international markets. Once this program is well underway, a process will begin to allow US Airways to become a member of the Star Alliance, a global alliance of airlines that includes Air Canada, Air New Zealand, ANA, Austrian, bmi british midland, Lauda, Lufthansa, Mexicana, SAS, Singapore, THAI, Tyrolean, and Varig in addition to United. This process should begin in the second year of US Airways' relationship with United."

http://www.usairways.com/about/press/us_ua_faq.htm

Great news - atleast now we might can get to Hawaii.

Joy to the world!!

I can now travel West.

Anybody up for a roach run to SIN next year?

I'm thinking of a roach run to SIN the weekend of Nov. 2. I'm going for 1K (legit.) as well as CHPR (through getting out more).

A news soundbite actually said the new cooperation included "combining of frequent flyer miles". Any truth to that or just another case of inaccurate news statements?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Warrenlm:
A news soundbite actually said the new cooperation included "combining of frequent flyer miles". Any truth to that or just another case of inaccurate news statements?</font>

That's absolutely incorrect. As agreed by both US and UA, they are required to "continue to act independently in establishing the terms and conditions of their frequent flyer programs", which though not explicit certainly implies that consolidation of the prgrams would not be allowed. The best we could probably hope for is they would allow miles to be combined for awards, but I doubt that would happen.

You can read the full terms and conditions laid down by the government here (http://www.dot.gov/affairs/US-UAL.htm).

I don't want to rain on the parade, but somebody should.
1. Under the restrictions imposed by the DOT, the airlines cannot:

--Code-share on local traffic on routes where both offer nonstop service, such as Philadelphia-Los Angeles.

--Code-share on nonstop flights to the same destination from Dulles International Airport or Reagan Washington National Airport, except for flights between Washington, New York's LaGuardia Airport and Boston's Logan International Airport.

2. The futures of UA and US are highly uncertain at best. Even though US has met with much success in the initial phases of its reorganization, it ain't over till the BK Judge issues the Final Decree.

And then we have UAL. 'Nuff said.


------------------
Thank you for choosing Continental Airlines, a proud member of the SkyTeam Alliance.

now that the alliance is approved, and US miles have much more value, i may just have to Get Out once More....

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by chexfan:
[B]*Club sharing on 14Oct.
*Codeshare 1Q '03
*Earn and redeem miles "in the coming months"

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/021002/22554_1.html
B]</font>

from the above regarding the club access

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
United and US Airways customers can begin enjoying access to each carriers' airport clubs on Oct. 14. This includes access to United's Red Carpet Clubs(TM) and US Airways Club locations. US Airways Club members traveling on a same-day United ticket will have Red Carpet Club access and vice versa.
</font>

I must say this really sucks.... I wanted access to the clubs where US doesnt have clubs, not access to the clubs only when im flying UA http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by jcrb:
I must say this really sucks.... I wanted access to the clubs where US doesnt have clubs, not access to the clubs only when im flying UA http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif</font>

I'm not sure if I understand this complaint - the club policy is pretty straightforward:

As a US Club member:
-You can access a UA club on your day of travel when flying US or UA.
-You can access a US club any time

As a UA RCC member:
-You can access a US club on your day of travel when flying US or UA
-You can access a UA club any time, regardless of airline you are travelling on.

This is similar to the marketing relationship US and AA had. Admirals club access was granted as long as you had a valid US or AA ticket for that day.

The UA-US marketing agreement goes much further, however, allowing recipricol mileage earning AND redemption, as well as priority treatment on either airline with elite status.

The response to this forum seems tepid at best. I realize that both airlines are in finaniacial chaos, and their general customer unfriendliness at the macro level, might have something to do with the lack of a groundswell of enthusiasm.

For myself, I think it will be great, as long as both airlines continue in operation and don't reduce program benefits even further. It means I can fly BDL-IAD non stop on UAL, get to use the RCC in IAD, retain my miles in US, and hopefully have an opportunity for awards to places I would never get to go to with US.

[This message has been edited by Brattflyer (edited 10-03-2002).]

More specifically, from today's Aviation Daily: "...Starting Oct. 14, however, passengers of both airlines will have reciprocal access to the carriers' lounges and in November to their frequent flyer programs..."

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by chexfan:
*Earn and redeem miles "in the coming months"</font>

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by PHL:
I'm not sure if I understand this complaint - the club policy is pretty straightforward:

As a US Club member:
-You can access a UA club on your day of travel when flying US or UA.
-You can access a US club any time

As a UA RCC member:
-You can access a US club on your day of travel when flying US or UA
-You can access a UA club any time, regardless of airline you are travelling on.

This is similar to the marketing relationship US and AA had. Admirals club access was granted as long as you had a valid US or AA ticket for that day.

The UA-US marketing agreement goes much further, however, allowing recipricol mileage earning AND redemption, as well as priority treatment on either airline with elite status.</font>

PHL --are you sure we get RCC access when flying on US at airports where there's no USAir club (e.g. SEA)?

there's a little confusion here -- the press release doesn't indicate that we get rcc access when flying US, only when flying on UA. i think this is what jcrb is referring to. from my perspective, its more important to get rcc access when flying UA, as generally the rcc is not convenient for US flights.

The media stories do indicate that, but the USAirways.com press release (http://www.usairways.com/about/press/nw_02_1002.htm)

states:

"The first tangible benefit of the alliance for customers will begin Oct. 14, 2002, when members of either carrier's airport club program will be able to use the lounges of both."

The FAQ (http://www.usairways.com/about/press/us_ua_faq.htm)

simply states "Reciprocal club access begins October 14, 2002."

So, like many nebulous airline policies, we'll all have to do some good, solid field research after 10/14 and see how RCC's are treating US club members with US tickets.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by kv99:
PHL --are you sure we get RCC access when flying on US at airports where there's no USAir club (e.g. SEA)?
</font>

Ok so mabye I over reacted.... cause I'm flying to SEA the week after this goes into effect http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by PHL:

So, like many nebulous airline policies, we'll all have to do some good, solid field research after 10/14 and see how RCC's are treating US club members with US tickets.</font>

According to US.com's Club page (http://www.usairways.com/pro_services/club/index.htm):

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Effective October 14, 2002 - As part of US Airways' marketing agreement with United Airlines, US Airways Club members will receive reciprocal access to United Airlines Red Carpet Clubs when traveling on a United ticket. </font>

And from the popup window from that same page:

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Club members traveling on United Airlines to key business centers where US Airways does not have a Club, such as Chicago, Dallas, Atlanta, Seattle and Miami can visit Red Carpet Clubs ... </font>

...

[This message has been edited by Arrzee (edited 10-03-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Arrzee (edited 10-03-2002).]

I am holding two USAIR flight vouchers (voluntary bump vouchers). Will I now be able to use them on UA iron when the flight is a designated codeshare (and space is of course available)? That is will I have more destinations available to use my vouchers after 1Q03 then I had yesterday?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Club members traveling on United Airlines to key business centers where US Airways does not have a Club, such as Chicago, Dallas, Atlanta, Seattle and Miami can visit Red Carpet Clubs ... </font>

Does UA charge US for each visit (and vice versa) under their agreement or something?! Is that why US is trying to limit our access to UA clubs?

In addition to the possible problem of not getting access to the other carrier's lounge when you are flying your own carrier (often not much of a problem because of location issues, e.g. SFO) the US quote raises a bigger problem:

That definitely reads like we do not get access to the other carrier's lounge, when flying the other carrier, if our own carrier also has a lounge in the airport. Again, think SFO.

UA and US are on opposite sides of the airport at SFO, almost as far away as can be (though the new international terminal acts as a "short cut"). So if I'm flying UA to anywherethat US doesn't go, like HNL, I don't get to use the Red Carpet Club because US has a lounge way across on the other side of the airport?!!!

If true, this "marketing plan" is much less than it's cracked up to be. I am a life member of the US Airways Club. On 15 Oct 02 I fly UA from IAD-SFO-NRT, so I'll let you know how it works out.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SPN Lifer:
Does UA charge US for each visit (and vice versa) under their agreement or something?! Is that why US is trying to limit our access to UA clubs?

...

</font>


I think it has more to do with the UA/Star Alliance partnership than the new UA/US code share. Since US is not a Star member yet, UA can't probably grant US flyers better club access privileges than it currently offers other Star travelers.

As to club access in cities where both US and UA have one... while I agree the quote from US's site makes it a bit ambiguous, I think that it will all depend on who you're flying with. If you're on US, you'll access the US Club; if you're on UA, you'll access United's. But, since the US Club membership allows access without a corresponding flight, you should be able to access it as well when you're flying on UA (i.e., just like you can now).

I would summarize it like this:

UA flight = RCC or US Club
US flight = US Club

In SEA, US goes out of the South Concourse - the RCC (assuming there is one) is not in the South Concourse (the only club there is NW)

So I'm not sure how helpful the alliance will be for us SEA pax.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by vicrock:
the RCC (assuming there is one) is not in the South Concourse (the only club there is NW)...</font>...And the BA Lounge and the SAS Lounge...

with the increasing difficulty of moving around airports, security screenings, etc. it realistically is only useful to have access to rcc's when flying united anyway so this doesn't bother me too much.

in any case, after getting out more through oct, time to switch my transcon travel (even if it means coach sometimes!) to united and see if i can get to 1k.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
Club members traveling on United Airlines to key business centers where US Airways does not have a Club, such as Chicago, Dallas, Atlanta, Seattle and Miami can visit Red Carpet Clubs ...
</font>

To me this just reads like U thinks that it's clubs are naturally superior in every way to RCC's and that no self-respecting U flier would want to use a UA club when a perfectly good U club is within 100 miles.

It would be too difficult to explain and police a "sometimes yes, sometimes no" policy -- oh wait, I forgot about how much joy they take in creating ever more byzantine fare rules and travel restrictions...

Putting the clubs aside for a moment, will US Preferred have access to Economy Plus when flying UA? If so, would that come with codesharing in Q1 '03?

Now back to your regularly scheduled club discussion, already in progress: Because code-share revenues go to the airline that actually carry the passenger, UA and US have good reason to limit reciprocal club access only to passengers flying on their planes -- especially in cities like SEA, where there is only one or the other.

Let's say you're a US Club member who wants to fly from Richmond to Seattle and assume that fares, FF benefits and schedules on UA and US are comparable. If the main factor in your decision between UA and US is club access, you're probably going to choose UA.

That's because you'll have access to the RCC at the connecting airport (ORD, say) and at Seattle. If you fly US, you'll only have club access at your connecting airport (PIT, say) and not in Seattle. The reverse would be true if you're a RCC member who wants to fly a route like LAS to ROC.

So not only can this codeshare divert revenue from competitors like Delta, it can also shift revenue within the alliance.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by DCAview:
... Now back to your regularly scheduled club discussion, already in progress: Because code-share revenues go to the airline that actually carry the passenger, UA and US have good reason to limit reciprocal club access only to passengers flying on their planes -- especially in cities like SEA, where there is only one or the other.

Let's say you're a US Club member who wants to fly from Richmond to Seattle and assume that fares, FF benefits and schedules on UA and US are comparable. If the main factor in your decision between UA and US is club access, you're probably going to choose UA.

That's because you'll have access to the RCC at the connecting airport (ORD, say) and at Seattle. If you fly US, you'll only have club access at your connecting airport (PIT, say) and not in Seattle. The reverse would be true if you're a RCC member who wants to fly a route like LAS to ROC.

So not only can this codeshare divert revenue from competitors like Delta, it can also shift revenue within the alliance.</font>

Well maybe.

But I would think that club proximity to gate is at least as strong a driver. I find it hard to believe that there will be a stampede of U fliers wanting to get into RCCs in strange and exotic wings of airports when they generally only have 20 or 30 minutes to dwaddle in a club anyway...

Today there is no checking of your ticket to get into a club. You just flash the card and your id. Nobody cares what airline you're flying or even if you're flying at all. It seems hard to imagine that they'd add yet another layer of red tape on top of that. Ok, maybe it isn't so hard to imagine... but why bother? OTOh why bother restricting stand-by and adding all sorts of red-tape to that? I think I need a drink...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SPN Lifer:
Does UA charge US for each visit (and vice versa) under their agreement or something?! Is that why US is trying to limit our access to UA clubs?
</font>

Does UA somehow track who is and isn't in the clubs? U just verifies that the card has a valid date on it and that the photo id has the same name on it.

I know that CO reads the mag stripe on your PC card some of the time but they're kind of spotty about it -- you'd think that they'd have to be really consistent about it if they're going to bill somebody based on that data. The notion seems far-fetched to me.

UA doesn't track who's in the RCC because they have TONS of non-members using them (especially at IAD, SFO, and ORD). Anyone on a business or first class international ticket and Premier Execs and 1Ks on ANY international ticket get to use RCCs on day of travel...Just have to show boarding pass.

For US Club members who find themselves in Tokyo flying United, the Narita Red Carpet Club is one of the nicest airline lounges in the world -- showers, good food, and of course, the famous beer-pouring machines. It also has a spectacular view of the runways at Narita. Sorry for the ad, but it's one of the nicest things about transpacific travel on United.

I second that nod to the Narita RCC.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Arrzee:

I think it has more to do with the UA/Star Alliance partnership than the new UA/US code share. Since US is not a Star member yet, UA can't probably grant US flyers better club access privileges than it currently offers other Star travelers.

As to club access in cities where both US and UA have one... while I agree the quote from US's site makes it a bit ambiguous, I think that it will all depend on who you're flying with. If you're on US, you'll access the US Club; if you're on UA, you'll access United's. But, since the US Club membership allows access without a corresponding flight, you should be able to access it as well when you're flying on UA (i.e., just like you can now).

I would summarize it like this:

UA flight = RCC or US Club
US flight = US Club

</font>

Exactly correct. I clarified this with my favorite friendly club rep earlier today. US members must be flying on a UA ticket to visit the RCC club. RCC member must be flying on US to visit the US club. You can obviously visit the US club at any time if you desire.

The reason does indeed have to do with the restrictions imposed on UA by the Star Alliance agreements. I was told that they are working on a way to deal with this, but it would be a while until a resolution, if one is possible. I mentioned that I heard that US joining SA was at least a year away, but was told this was not the prerequisite for full club cross-access - it would happen sooner than that.

And I upgraded today (yeah). Perhaps taking the earlier flight is the trick - too bad it gets cancelled as of next week.....

United and US Airways Announce Benefits for Frequent Flyer Program Members

Customers Can Begin Accruing Mileage and Earning Bonus Miles as Early as Next Month

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/021007/72100_1.html

from the Article: "Mileage redemption and other Mileage Plus and Dividend Miles benefits will be available to program members in early 2003."

The only "other benefits" are upgrades and pre-boarding. I have to think this means upgrades since pre-boarding is no big deal.

Yet another question from the United uneducated.

On the US site there is a description of the arrangement:

http://www.usairways.com/dividendmiles/programinfo/us_ual.htm#earnmiles

One line about earning miles on UA flights caught my eye. "United code share flights operated by carriers other than US Airways® do not qualify".

If I am corect, this means we earn miles on UA metal not UA flights. The question then is, where does UA fly that they only codshare on someone else's metal? This could be intersting trying to figure out whose metal the flight is on.

UA codeshares will not qualify for points. There is a number range that usually denotes flights on UA metal vs. on other carriers. I have no idea what their number scheme is, but I'm sure someone on the UA board does.

For example:
UA 3875 is really the LH flight 427.

The only way to be sure is looking on their web site at the schedules. When you see the flight number, it will tell you if it's operated by another carrier or them.

When US gets into Star Alliance, then those code-shares on the Star carriers will earn us points as well.

1-3000 (or 2999) is UA
5000-8000 is UX

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mileshound:
Yet another question from the United uneducated.

On the US site there is a description of the arrangement:

http://www.usairways.com/dividendmiles/programinfo/us_ual.htm#earnmiles

One line about earning miles on UA flights caught my eye. "United code share flights operated by carriers other than US Airways® do not qualify".

If I am corect, this means we earn miles on UA metal not UA flights. The question then is, where does UA fly that they only codshare on someone else's metal? This could be intersting trying to figure out whose metal the flight is on.

</font>

It's not so difficult to figure this out with United currently. As Chexfan has posted, the flt. numbers are very clearly indicative of what's UA metal and what's not.

This is not like NW/KL for example where often you have no clue who's going to be operating the aircraft (at least in my limited experience w/them).

Thanks for the education. At least here we are astute enough to ask the questions and understand the answers.

You know they are going to hear it when someone buys a ticket on a United codeshare flight and they don't earn miles. All they have heard is that UA flights earn US miles -- and their ticket will say UA on it.

It's like making a reservation from Hertz, Avis gives you a car, and your were expecting Hertz #1 points.

I understand it and it makes sense, but the average Joe will not understand.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mileshound:
It's like making a reservation from Hertz, Avis gives you a car, and your were expecting Hertz #1 points.
</font>

Am I missing something? Do Avis and Hertz codeshare??? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

What about reciprocal elite upgrade priviledges?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Club members traveling on United Airlines to key business centers where US Airways does not have a Club, such as Chicago, Dallas, Atlanta, Seattle and Miami can visit Red Carpet Clubs ... </font>

Originally posted by SPN Lifer:
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">That reads like we do not get access to the other carrier's lounge, when flying the other carrier, if our own carrier also has a lounge in the airport.

On 15 Oct 02 I fly UA from IAD-SFO-NRT, so I'll let you know how it works out.</font>

I had no problem at any of the three airports. My wife and I simply flashed our US Airways Club life membership cards, and they let us (and our two sons) in. No card numbers were recorded, nor were we asked for copies of our UA e-tickets or boarding passes.

Yes, the NRT RCC is nice, though the same beer machines appear in the NW clubs. The rolled sushi was good, though I also liked the large triangular sushi served in the JL club to which we were admitted in Terminal 2 in lieu of a CO President's Club (but without any guest privileges -- so we left our 8 and 9 year old sons watching TV upstairs and smuggled some goodies our for them).

Should this not be a joint bankruptcy alliance. lets see - combine two $$ losing basketcase airlines together and we will get one money maker &lt;eek&gt;

Has anyone actually TRIED this sort of situation out?

My home base is DFW, no US Air club but RCC is just a few gates from US Air. I would pay for club membership in a flash if...

RCC would admit me on date of flight of US Airways ticketed flight since there is no US Airways club in DFW.

I know the written rules seem to indicate that you must be ticketed on UA for that date but this situation seems fair in spirit of partnership.

I think this was mentioned somewhere else about joining the RCC instead of US Club ( unless you're already a US club mbr). Also, regarding another post above. Mileage accrual starts Nov 1st and US/UA currently have an interline ETKT agreement ( the first for US ). I have already sold ETKT PHL-HNL US/UA conx in LAX. The website and Sabre have been reprogrammed to show US/UA conx first if the min times are met. Try it ! Once the code share starts the fares will fall more into line.