US Airways Dividend Miles (Pre-FlightFund Merger) - Chapter 11 and Award tickets

Havent really been concerned until today, but I have 2 FC award tickets booked to Aruba in June for my Honeymoon. How are these handled if the unthinkable happens. Are they contracts with the airline like normal tickets, or would I be S*** outta luck. I dont think even purchasing award guard would be much help since the airline needs to be completly out of business before they cover it. What is the airlines obligation to me in case this does happen, or am I worrying too much...

Thanks!

[This message has been edited by vtflyer (edited 04-18-2002).]

June is way to soon to think about that possibility. With the agreement for another 70 RJs, plus possible federal loans, plus the upcoming announcement of the new plan C, things are looking up. As an employee, this was actually a good day. I have complete faith that the employee groups will pull together and do what's right to keep the company flourishing for many years to come.

But what if... The reasons I am concerned is that I am now hesitant about buying or putting deposits on nonreturnable items for the honeymoon and such..

First, IANAL

If you are flying only on US metal, I wouldn't worry. If for some reason, US does go chapter 11 and you have existing tix, I would think you are OK as long as US continues to fly to Aruba.

For those of us who have award tix on other carriers, the situation may or may not be different.

Ok... What does IANAL mean...... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

IANAL = I am not a lawyer.

I thought paper tickets are actually _worth_ the trip, so if you have paper tickets on a partner airline, I would think those would still be valid. Just my rudimentary understanding of paper tickets. Also IANAL

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by vtflyer:
But what if... The reasons I am concerned is that I am now hesitant about buying or putting deposits on nonreturnable items for the honeymoon and such..</font>

What if what?

Like BWI2MCO said, nothing is going to happen before July. If something did and you held tickets on US, you might be SOL.

vtflyer: Getting married in June?

I would not loose a minute of sleep over this... you'll be fine. I'd be more worried about the weather that time of year... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Does anyone have the definitive word on this? PHL asserted the same thing a few months ago, but the thread (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum51/HTML/002212.html) was left unresolved. I have 410,000 miles invested in unused paper tickets (on international partners), and I'm wondering if I should feel as smug as I do.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by pitflyer:
I thought paper tickets are actually _worth_ the trip, so if you have paper tickets on a partner airline, I would think those would still be valid. Just my rudimentary understanding of paper tickets. Also IANAL</font>

The situation with bankruptcy gets very complicated but most Ch. 11's are reorgs where management tries to work out financial arrangements, credit lines, break union contracts, lower costs, etc. etc. Therefore, the airline, if still flying the route, will honor the ticket or get you a refund if not, or arrange with another carrier to honor the paid ticket. On a regular purchased ticket, there are plenty of other carriers who will be willing to get you there if service is shut down because they will still get the revenue from the ticket although you may not get there in the style or manner or time you wanted.

On award tickets, you may be SOL if the carrier is not flying. This is because they are a liability on the company's books w/o a revenue stake to back it up. Someone may be willing to get you back from where you are for goodwill and humanitarian reasons and make a claim with US but I doubt they will get you there.

I doubt US will give up the Carribean; or declare bankruptcy prior to getting the loan and tax refund. Disclaimer-my experience with bankrupt airlines has been limited because we usually owed more money to them than they owed us (a pretty secure creditor) and I no longer am involved in bankruptcies except peripherally. Remember, in bankrupties the lawyers get paid first. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Nah Weather is not a problem.. No hurricanes in aruba... Just Hot

vtflyer--I think the 'what if' reality you are referring to is pretty simple: no USAirways, no transport for you. If they are truly non-operational, you have fairly worthless paper in your hands.

In the most likely reality, you will travel, enjoy first class, Aruba, and all that, come home and realize that USAirways was every bit alive as it is now.

I am flying a combined US/QF F ticket next month and was only briefly concerned about the validity of said tickets, and that was when US (the media actually) was talking about shuttering in late September. That is no longer likely anytime soon, in my view. I continue to earn, redeem, and plan long-away vacations with US miles.

I agree... your biggest concern should be what SPF to bring!

I will still NEVER understand why so many people think that Chapter 11 for US would mean that the airline will not fly anymore, or be gounded for some time.

THIS IS NOT THE CASE. Think back to when Frick and Frack threatened to ground the airline when the FA's, before their latest contract, were threatening CHAOS. The government would have eventually stepped in because of the havoc the grounding of some of these routes would have created. This is not Eastern in 1990; It's not Braniff either.

Chapter 11 for this airline, if it were to happen, will allow management to restructure union contracts to lower labor costs, which is the entire problem this airline has in the first place.

They have a strong fleet in place, 1/3 of which is practically brand new. Their Caribbean service is some of their more profitable routes...thus the reason for expansion.

VTflyer, you don't have anything to worry about in terms of your tickets. I agree with Chex.....worry about what SPF to bring.

For those of us that do have award tix on other airlines, the situation obviously may be different.

I recently read somewhere (can't remember where) that when you fly Airline #2 using and an award from Airline #1, #1 doesn't pay #2 until after you have actually flown on #2. (Obviously, this could vary based on specific contracts between two particular airlines, but I understand that this is the norm).

Under this scenario, if #1 goes Chapter 11, I would think that those who do have award tix on #2 wouldn't have a problem as long as #2 wishes to continue doing business with #1. On the other hand, if #1 would file Chapter 7, I would think that those with unused award tix on #2 would be SOL.

&gt;&gt;&gt; I recently read somewhere (can't remember where) that when you fly Airline #2 using and an award from Airline #1, #1 doesn't pay #2 until after you have actually flown on #2&lt;&lt;

That could have been my posting over on the UA board. I had Ansett tix using UA miles, and when AN stopped flying UA just refunded the miles. They would not endorse the tickets to anyone else because the money for award tickets, at least with UA, does not change hands until after you fly. I ended up booking paid Qantas and Virgin Blue tickets instead for travel in Australia.

Reading the logic from back in April, if you were interested in booking award travel to/from a US hub you should be in good shape, even if Chapter 11 is filed. Right?

Yes, you'd be fine. Chapter 11 means they still operate as an airline at least.

My current worry that's bubbling up deep inside is my November trip to Australia. I have 2 printed paper tickets on Qantas - FIRST CLASS - courtesy of Dividend Miles points. Rumors have said that if US were to shut its doors completely, Qantas could easily cancel my itenerary because US apparently doesn't pay for them until closer to flight time(or after the flights occur). This is what keeps me up at night......

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by PHL:
Yes, you'd be fine. Chapter 11 means they still operate as an airline at least.

My current worry that's bubbling up deep inside is my November trip to Australia. I have 2 printed paper tickets on Qantas - FIRST CLASS - courtesy of Dividend Miles points. Rumors have said that if US were to shut its doors completely, Qantas could easily cancel my itenerary because US apparently doesn't pay for them until closer to flight time(or after the flights occur). This is what keeps me up at night......</font>

That is the award a friend and I have been saving for. However, the potential difficulties with US are making me leery and giving considerable thought to using miles for free domestic travel. I am also in the process of revising my airline loyalty, and then our dream trip would be easier to attain.

I've always been a fan of E-tickets and have always viewed paper tickets as an inconvienience in terms of changing flights and something else to lose.

However, fiance and I are booking our honeymoon for May of next year and with the financial situation what it is, would my esteemed FT friends make a recommendation. E-ticket or Paper Ticket?

Was hoping to use miles for two Envoy tix SAN-FCO next June. Dates aren't open for booking as yet. Worst case, these tix will be useless and we'll have to buy replacements later; best case, we'll have another lovely trip. Just did SAN-CDG and returned LGW-SAN with SWU's. Heavenly! The A330 is the ultimate coach potato ride.