US Airways Dividend Miles (Pre-FlightFund Merger) - Envoy (international) questions

Do upgraded Envoy international pax also get arrivals service invattions on-board? (UA doesn't allow upgraded business pax to use theirs.)

Also, since I like bulkhead seats and have long legs, how generous is the legroom in front of row 2 on the A330's?

Is there a lot of "crossover" traffic in front of 2C in the A330's once the plane has "departed"?

Thanks for your wisdeom and experiences!!

Yes, you can use the arrivals lounge. You don't need an invitation - just your boarding pass.

Row 2 has as much legroom as any other. I don't think it's got *extra* room, therefore passing traffic shouldn't be a problem. But, there really shouldn't be any passing traffic. Since FA's serve you from the rear of the Envoy cabin, they should do all their crossing back there. Since the bathroom for Envoy is in the rear of the Envoy cabin, pax should also not have reason to cross in front of you.

I have to disagree about the legroom in row 2 of the 330.

I am only 6 feet tall, but my feet hit against the wall when I try to recline and sleep in row 2. Any other row, and I can sleep fine without my feet touching the seat in front of me. I dont know if the pitch is messed up, etc, but it seems to me the legroom is NOT the same in 2. Same is true of row 6.

There is no crossover traffic in 2 or 6 - people cross through the galleys between 5 and 6.

OK, so the score is now tied!

I don't mind putting my feet up on the bulkhead, but I don't like reclining and having them hit the bulkhead while I attempt to sleep with my legs on the legrest.

So perhaps I need more opinions from other long-legged pax.

roberto, there is no distinct advantage whatsoever to row 2 (and 6 is about the same), so go for rows 3 or 4 (5 is close to the galley/restrooms, and 7 is right before coach). plenty of pitch/legroom in 3 and 4 and no risk of any crossover traffic. i prefer the side seats AB or GH to the middle (just less noise in general).

if you haven't been in 330 envoy yet, you're in for a treat -- it's a big step up from the 76 and i think the 330 envoy product is better than united business, and comparable with delta be.

for the arrivals service, the boarding pass may be enough but you may want to ask for the invitation card from the fa on board (i actually plan to complain to us because they should be giving these out without asking!). mike at the cathay pacific lounge in frankfurt (which us uses for its arrivals service, but not, alas, for the departure service) told me on friday when i was there that they really do need the arrivals card from usairways.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by kv99:
if you haven't been in 330 envoy yet, you're in for a treat -- it's a big step up from the 76 and i think the 330 envoy product is better than united business, and comparable with delta be.
</font>

That's great to hear! I'm looking forward to this trip and US's Envoy A330 product. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

In the last year, UA enhanced Business by stretching the seat pitch to about 57 inches in most rows (but reducing the bulkhead legroom!). Also, recline was greatly improved. But UA's Business service has certainly declined a lot on many flights. (I flew dozens of UA's international Business Cless trips last year).

Are you comparing the Envoy A330 product to UA's 2000 or 2001 Business Class cabin?

A comment about the bulkhead rows in Envoy on the US A330... that's row 2 and 6:

Envoy is a 2x2x2 configuration. Seats AB, CF, and GH are pairs. The bulkhead sits just a little further back on the two sides, thus there is less room in front of the AB and GH pairs when compared to the center CF pair of seats. It's not tremendous, but enough to make a difference if your tall. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

That isnt a good comparison.

The center seats (CF) in general are not 'in line' with the AB / GH seats. I'm pretty sure the amount of pitch is the same in rows 2 and 6 despite the 'offset' in the center seats. If you sit in the center seats, you need to look a bit over your shoulder to see people in the same row. FYI, See seating diagram here:

http://www.usairways.com/travelguide/aircraft/diagrams/a330.htm

I have felt cramped in both the center seats and the side seats when in the bulkhead Envoy rows.

Bottom line - while the center seats are further up, they still seem to have the same pitch as the sides.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by hscottm:
Bottom line - while the center seats are further up, they still seem to have the same pitch as the sides.</font>


I disagree. I know there is an offset, however on a recent flight (12/27) I specifically moved from 6B to 6C because it had "more room". Having said this, I always prefer rows 3, 4, or 5 to the bulkheads. Row 7 is too close to the economy restrooms (lots of traffic). Given the choice, I'd avoid the bulkhead rows too.



[This message has been edited by geo1004 (edited 01-07-2002).]

If no one flies in A330 Envoy between now and the weekend, I'll bring my darn tape measure for friday's flight and report next week!

chexfan:

While you are roaming around the A330 on your hands and knees measuring everything, try and figure out which seats in coach have 33" pitch and which ones have 34". The seat diagram posted above shows both. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/confused.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by geo1004:
...try and figure out which seats in coach have 33" pitch and which ones have 34".</font>Yea... like I'll be going back with "the cattle" http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by chexfan:
If no one flies in A330 Envoy between now and the weekend, I'll bring my darn tape measure for friday's flight and report next week!</font>After measuring, I can honestly report that the row 2 bulkhead seats have about 8-10 inches less legroom than rows 3-5.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by chexfan:
Originally posted by chexfan:
If no one flies in A330 Envoy between now and the weekend, I'll bring my darn tape measure for friday's flight and report next week!</font>After measuring, I can honestly report that the row 2 bulkhead seats have about 8-10 inches less legroom than rows 3-5.

how about a trip report chexfan?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by catwood:
how about a trip report chexfan?</font>Yep... Gimme some time- you can't rush brilliance http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by chexfan:
Gimme some time- you can't rush brilliance http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif</font>


I hear waiting for it won't do any good either. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

Can't help but say "told you so!" ;-)

Seriously - thanks chex. I was worried that I was nuts in thinking that. Now I'll have to find an alternative proof of that.

BTW - not trying to rub it in more, but were all the bulkhead seats equally less spacious than the non-bulkhead rows, or just the middle or side seats?

And did anyone look at you funny while measuring?

How About Nomination for Nobel Prize in Mathematics?
chexfan Theory 183a: The Envoy Bulkhead Seat

OK, my initial, subjective, observation came from looking at 2F and 3F. I was in 2G and it appeared to me that both people in the F seats were completely reclined and had their footrests completely extended. It was clearly obvious that the person in 3F had more room between the footrest and 2F by about 6-8 more inches than the person in 2F had between his footrest and the bulkhead wall.

On the way home, we were deplaning from 2L. My roommate and I were the last people from the F and Envoy cabins to leave. As we were waiting, I took out a copy of the Attaché Magazine and threw it down on the ground. My roommate looked at me strangely but knew better then to ask any questions. As my measuring stick, the distance between the bulkhead and 2B & 2C were exactly the same. Now the harder part was to determine where to measure 3C to. I tried to drop an imaginary plumb line from the back of 2C and measured from there. The distance between my reasonably arbitrary spot behind 2C to 3C was greater by about 3/4 to 5/6 the length of the Attaché Magazine. It seems good enough to me for objective proof.

note #1- being 6'5", I didn't mind the bulkhead seats, but I won't be so excited to sit in them next time.

note #2- I just saw A Beautiful Mind so i won't be expecting my Nobel Prize for a few years! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Based on this explanation, im looking forward to seat 3F on my LGW PHL trip.

Based on chexfan's story I wonder why the FA's didn't have him arrested. People have gotten in trouble for doing less strange things these days http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

How about this ... sitting in 4A of an A330 on Sunday I could not touch the seat in front of me with my feet without really stretching. Sitting in seat 2C I was able to easily rest my feet on the wall.

There is definitely less legroom in 2C than 4A.

What? is there no one else in here who actualy *likes* to rest their feet on the bulkhead wall?

I don't like to do it, and it's one of the biggest pet peeves of most Flight Attendants...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by avek00:
and it's one of the biggest pet peeves of most Flight Attendants...</font>

Really??? I live for the "bulkhead foot rest" and I don't think I've ever had a FA give me the impression that they wished that I was not.

Maybe its just that I'm so nice that they are willing to overlook this little idiosycnrasy of mine? :-)

If its true some FA please tell me so I can at least feel bad about putting my feet up (I've been doing it my whole life, not going to pretend I can break the habit at this point :-))

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by chexfan:
chexfan Theory 183a: The Envoy Bulkhead Seat</font>


Where are your measurements for row 6? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

For bulkhead vs. non-bulkhead....


I really prefer bulkhead seats on domestic (non-widebody) flights. 1F specifically. I don't like the seat in front of me reclining back into my space.

For Envoy on the widebodies I don't like the bulkhead at all. I like rows 2,3,4 on the 767 and rows 3,4,5 on the A330.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by jcrb:
Really??? I live for the "bulkhead foot rest" and I don't think I've ever had a FA give me the impression that they wished that I was not.

Maybe its just that I'm so nice that they are willing to overlook this little idiosycnrasy of mine? :-)

If its true some FA please tell me so I can at least feel bad about putting my feet up (I've been doing it my whole life, not going to pretend I can break the habit at this point :-))</font>

I had my feet on a bulkhead once on a 737-400. I was the LAST person served in the cabin, despite the FA starting with my row. She completely skipped me! That's proof enough to me.

Duplicate Deleted

[This message has been edited by PHL (edited 01-17-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by PHL:
I had my feet on a bulkhead once on a 737-400. I was the LAST person served in the cabin, despite the FA starting with my row. She completely skipped me! That's proof enough to me.</font>

Thats only every happened to me when I WASN'T in a bulkhead seat :-)

You sure you didn't forget to thank the FA for your pre-takeoff drink or something?

Two comments

1) Where were all of you with your 'my feet touch the bulkhead' stories when I was the only crazy person insisting the bulkhead seats had less space?

2) Sorry, chex, but Nash's beautiful mind was awarded the Nobel in Economics (in 1994). But I guess only a geek econ PhD like me would know that. His PhD, though, was in Math.. And as you surmised from the movie, even the great Econ contributors wait eons for a Nobel (theres still a big backlog even though the intent of Nobel was to reward people for the biggest contributions of the past year). So it might be a few years until they recognize you for bulkhead row measurements. Ok, class is over now.

[This message has been edited by hscottm (edited 01-17-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by hscottm:
Sorry, chex, but Nash's beautiful mind was awarded the Nobel in Economics (in 1994). But I guess only a geek econ PhD like me would know that. </font>

Or a game theory geek

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by catwood:
how about a trip report chexfan?</font>All I Wanted Was Real French Toast... (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum81/HTML/002492.html)

[This message has been edited by chexfan (edited 01-22-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by chexfan:
Originally posted by catwood:
how about a trip report chexfan?</font>All I Wanted Was Real French Toast... (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum81/HTML/002492.html)

[This message has been edited by chexfan (edited 01-22-2002).]

Great report. Merci pour prendre le temps d'écrire au sujet de votre voyage. Sounds like fun on those 330's.

Returning to the original question, you do, according to the website, need an invitation to use arrivals anywhere but Gatwick (that being the one that US operates), and even there there's conflicting information. With the exceptions of FRA (which uses CX's lounge) and CDG (where it's Salon Bleriot), they use hotels. Also, Madrid has no arrivals service at all. (BTW, you also get US Airways Club access on your domestic segs of an international front-cabin tik.)

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by silverpie:
With the exceptions of FRA (which uses CX's lounge) and CDG (where it's Salon Bleriot), they use hotels.</font>In AMS I think the name of the place was the Salon Mercure (and a hotel as well).

Also, the folks at the Salon Bleriot at CDG were ready to let me in w/o the invitation which I had momentarily misplaced.

My envoy question of the day:

Can you recline on all seats, even the ones in the back row of each section? (on A330?).
I noticed that some FC seats in a 757 you can't so I am curious.

I think all the Envoy seats have the same recline. So, no, I wouldn't be worried about the back row (like on the 757 Domestic FC seats).

Answer:
Yes http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I've ridden very first and very last rows in the last year.

This is discussed elsewhere, but if you are taller than 6'2 or so you would probably prefer the last row of Envoy to the bulkhead. While there is a bit more foot traffic in back, there's more pitch between the last and next to last rows as compared to the front row and the bulkhead itself.

To put it another way, the recline is identical on all seats, but you can stretch your legs out farther on the footrest if you're not on the first row of Envoy.

There is always another side of the coin, and in this case you are less likely to get the lobster pasta (or other primo dinner option). The folks up near the front get their dinner orders taken first, and those crumb bums are more likely to scarf up the good stuff! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I'm personally of a mind that the second and third rows are probably the best of both worlds: Lower foot traffic, maximum legroom and availabilty of first choice of dinner menu. There is so much pitch (50" on the A330) that realistically, even if the person in front of you is in full recline it doesn't seriously impact your personal space at all.

My .02 centavos, marked down from .06 centavos for today only!

Regards,
-Bouncer-

[This message has been edited by Bouncer (edited 01-23-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Bouncer:
There is so much pitch (50" on the A330) that realistically, even if the person in front of you is in full recline it doesn't seriously impact your personal space at all.
</font>


Bouncer, give yourself another 10" !!! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redface.gif

The pitch on the 767 in Envoy is 55" and 60" on the 330. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif